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Painwheel MDE Combo Thread (Page 3 Onwards)

Krackatoa said:
It's like we went back in time before no one knew how to combo.

Piss Easy Corner Carry BnB (Do this when you're around halfway to stage edge)

cr.LK,cr.MK,s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
6j.LK >
cr.MK xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
3j.LP >
s.MP >
Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.MP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer >
OTG s.LK,s.MK xx HK.Buer xx Fly >
j.HP(4) >
s.LP,s.LK,s.MK,s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

8449 damage

I've been telling everyone how good this combo is. Just use it. It works from like further than half screen and is pretty optimal. Also has great reset points. Shoutouts to Krack.
 
I have a carry combo, but it is a worse version of kraks other corner carry.
 
Honestly, I JUST do that combo these days. Nothing else. If I'm too far midscreen, I'm resetting. If I'm in the corner, I'm resetting. I usually reset after the carry portion of the combo is done. The way Undizzy and scaling and PW metergain works out is that doing full combos is useless garbage unless it kills, and my team is so meter heavy that spending meter on Enders/DHCs to finish the job is actually really bad. I need that meter to cover a lot of my setups.

I make exceptions for Duos, however. Spending a ton of meter to guarantee a kill is better against Duos and poorly composed Trio teams.

Also, the combo is piss easy, as per the title. The hardest link is 3j.LP > s.MP, which is like 5 frames or something retardedly wide.

I've been getting a lot of extra damage off of resets lately because they all involve an initial armored j.HP into meaty/armor OS/refly fakeout. This has gotten me a ton of CH j.HPs lately, and that is a monstrous amount of discounted Undizzy scores. THAT'S when you go into combo-video mode.
 
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obregon said:
Is there some reason people don't do c.LK MP then a partially charged c.HP as their corner doublesnap loop for Painwheel? It seems like a standard dead easy universal snap knockdown loop that most characters have but I've never seen anyone do it in matches.
You can do full c.hp and its EASIER on heavy characters.

Works on everyone, different c.hp timing on lighter characters. Heavies you just chain into c.hp immediately. Edit: AND IT LOOKS COOL AS HELL! Double Edit: Oh, okay I have alerts on when tagged now I can see things when people reference me.


Last Edit I Swear: Also for those unaware, I'll post it again. PWs snapout pickup range has been increased since her snapout recovery got normalized.


 
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I think I liked it better when cHP caused the crumple every rep.

[Staring contest with gift horse's mouth]
 
Super new player here, and I clearly don't understand how IPS works.

I've been trying to come up with my own combo, and I had this:

cr. lk xx cr. mk xx st. hp xx fly, 3j.lk, cr. mk xx st. hk, jc, j. mp xx j. mk xx fly, j. mk

But that triggers IPS on the last j. mk. Even when I do this:

cr. lk xx cr. mp(1) xx st. hp xx fly, 3j.lk, cr. mp(1) xx st. hk, jc, j. mp xx j. mk xx fly, j. mk

So can anyone explain why that is happening? I never use j.mk prior to the last j.mk outside of cancelling it from j. mp, even if I never use mk on the ground prior to that.

Also am I to assume that krackatoa's posted combo is currently the best bnb?
 
You've already used j.mk so using it again triggers IPS. There is an option in training mode to look at what moves you have already used. http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls/Game_Systems#The_Infinite_Prevention_System. If you want to know more about it then look at this. The combo on the beginner's combo page is fine. I wouldn't worry about carry combos or corner combos until you're fine with combos.
 
but the j. mk I used earlier was part of a chain started with j. mp. Why is it still triggering? For example this is my bella combo:

cr. lk xx c. mp xx cr. hp, jc, j. mk xx j. hk, OTG st. lk, cr. mk, jc, j. mp xx j. hk, st. mp, dash cr. hp, jc, j. lp(x4-6) xx j. hp, st. lp xx cr. mp xx cr. hp xx 623 lk+lp xx super

in that combo, i use cr. mp multiple times and j. hk multiple times. And as far as I understand I am able to do that because I used them in chains that began with a different move. In the painwheel combo I posted above, I only use j. mk chain out of j. mp before fly cancelling and doing it again.

Moreover, when I do raw st. hk, jc, j. mp xx j.mk xx fly, j. mk it works. I am still confused
 
That's because there are stages to a combo. 1 isn't watched (this is if you come in with an air attack). After canceling with fly or being on the ground comes 2 (this also isn't watched). 3 is next and is watched and every move that is used in this chain can't be used in 5. 4 comes after and is optional. This part occurs if you use an air dash or in the case of Painwheel, Fly. 5 is when you can't use any move that you already used at the start of the chain. For Bella, the first c.mp is not watched. the second is when it becomes watched. The reason why the third doesn't trigger is because you used s.lp to chain into c.mp. The rule is that you can't use it as a chain starter. The reason PW can do that is because the launcher is part of stage 2. The j.mp and the j.mk are part of stage 3. The fly moves it to stage 4 and IPS isn't triggered on stage 4.
 
Raw s.hk, j.mp, j.mk fly j.mk is done on stage 3 so you can't trigger IPS, and the rule is that you can't START a chain with an attack that has BEEN USED in that combo.

Chains are L>M>H>special>super, so after flight you're starting a new chain with j.mk, a normal has already been used.
 
Here's something related that I should absolutely know, but I don't.

How do specials work in IPS? I assume it is the same ie don't start a chain with a special that's already been used.

Does it count strengths of specials too? Like if I use mk.buer in a corner combo, can I start a chain with lk.buer?
 
any strength of special makes all strengths of that special ips triggered. So like if you chain into a L buer (after the first chain, which doesn't count for IPS), then chain into an LP nails and link an M buer off that, the m buer will be burstable. Air/ground versions count as different specials though
 
Here's a question worth asking:

Whats your biggest combo starting from full undizzy? Aka most optimized combo from that point?
 
From c.LK one bar? Midscreen, chain to LP nails, chain to LK buer, crawl. Corner, chain to HK buer, OTG ground chain to LK buer, crawl. Does like 4.9k mid and 5.6 corner, plus whatever your assist does. For throw starters you can throw xx fly xx unfly OTG to get the same two chains, like 4k + your assist.
 
cr.LK, cr.MK, cr.HP (Call H.Brass) xx HK.Buer
Falling LK.Buer xx Fly
j.LK, j.HP (4) xx LK.Buer
OTG Deathcrawl

Also good.

j.LP,j.LK, j.MK xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly
j.LK, j.HP (4) + Call Bomber xx Air.LK.Buer
j.LK, j.HP(4) xx Air.LK. Buer xx Fly
j.LK, j.HP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer
OTG Deathcrawl

Character specific. Works with other assists.
 
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I see. So in the case of my combo even though I am still cancelling j. mp to j. mk, it doesn't count as a chain because its not cancelling from one strength to a higher strength?
 
It is a chain. Using fly starts a new chain and using j.mk to start it after it was watched is why it triggers IPS.
 
That stage (4? Anyway, the first air string) is watched.

So you do j.mp > j.mk and both are watched. Then you xx fly which starts a new strings and when you hit j.mk it triggers IPS.

Actually, there are some decent burst baits from that set up due to that reason.
 
So even though j. mk was chained into and not used as a starter, it is still watched and cannot be used to start a new chain or it just cannot be used again at all?
 
It just has to have not been in stage 1 or 2 to be watched. c.lk c.mk s.hp fly 3j.lk c.lk c.mk s.hp l nails c.mk will trigger IPS since you already used c.mk in the second chain. A move that has been watched cannot be used to start a new chain.
 
This might help, from here.

  • Order of combo stages:
    • 1: Free: Optional section for a chain of jump-in attacks; cancelling to an air dash will end the chain and start Stage 2.
    • 2: Free: The next chain, usually the first ground section.
    • 3: Watched: The next chain.
    • 4: Watched: Optional section, allowing one additional chain before Stage 5 if using an air dash cancel.
    • 5: Limited: Maximum stage, same as watched and can trigger an Infinity Breaker.
If you go into training, you should be able to see how your stages go up (set the dummy to do the combo for you and grab some popcorn).
 
So what's everyone's midscreen bnb assuming you never hit corner?
 
So I made a cute little combo that's easy to do for beginners that comes complete with an easy grab reset option. If not, then you can choose to either death crawl or buer overdrive for an easy 7k - 9k. It's corner only though.

 
Goddamnit. I thought I finally understood this IPS shit. Then I saw this combo:


fly, j. mk, cr. mk xx cr. hp xx hk buer xx fly, j. mk, cr. mk xx cr. hp xx hk buer xx fly, j. lp xx. j. mk, cr. mp xx f. hk(4) xx hk buer xx fly, j. lk xx j. mk, cr. lk xx cr. mk xx. st. hp xx lk buer xx deathcrawl.

So I thought it would break down like this:
stage 1: j. mk, unwatched bonus air chain
stage 2: cr. mk, cr. hp, hk buer...unwatched
stage 3: j. mk watched
stage 4: cr. mk, cr. hp, hk buer watched
stage 5: j. lp xx j. mk watched....

Now what I don't understand is that I thought j. mk was watched at stage 3. Not only does he use j. mk again at what I thought was stage 5, he uses it again later. Why is this possible?

And as my contribution to new players, I have a midscreen bnb for when I want to kill that seems pretty optimized based on krack's combo:

cr. lk xx cr. mk xx st. hp xx lk buer xx fly, 6j.lk, cr. mk xx lk buer xx fly, 3j.lp, st. mp, j. mp(4) xx j. hp xx j. hk, cr. lk xx cr. mk xx st. hp xx lk buer xx death crawl.

The nice part about this combo is that if you end in lvl 3 instead of death crawl, the very next hit out of the wall bounce will trigger undizzy if they started with none making for easy burst bait.
 
semantik said:
Now what I don't understand is that I thought j. mk was watched at stage 3. Not only does he use j. mk again at what I thought was stage 5, he uses it again later. Why is this possible?
Before understanding IPS works you have to know how chains work. IPS is simply "don't start a chain with a normal you already used"

Chains
All characters can chain cancel their normal moves into other normals on hit or block. Any move from an attack button lower on the chain will cancel to an attack higher on the chain during all active and some of the recovery frames. Standing, crouching, and command normals can appear in the same ground chain. Air normals and air command normals work in the same air chain. Different characters have different chain combo sequences for their ground and air chains, and maximum number of attack buttons in the chain describes the different chain types.

  • 6 button chain:
  • 5 button chain: OR
  • 4 button chain: OR OR
  • 3 button chain: OR OR OR

The second time he used j.mk was in a chain started with j.lp, so it's permitted.
 
Krackatoa said:
Reset.
This post is like a week old but I don't come in here that often ok. I'm just curious what kinds of resets you would use in this situation. Reason I'm asking is you probably don't want to do crossup resets unless your back is to the corner. I mean if you're resetting because you're not close enough to the corner then it doesn't make sense to cross up and end up on the other side still far away from the corner. The best resets I know with this character are either crossups or require assists, the other stuff I know is like babby restand high/low stuff that gets you Dynamo'd.
 
While I'm in here
semantik said:
fly, j. mk, cr. mk xx cr. hp xx hk buer xx fly, j. mk, cr. mk xx cr. hp xx hk buer xx fly, j. lp xx. j. mk, cr. mp xx f. hk(4) xx hk buer xx fly, j. lk xx j. mk, cr. lk xx cr. mk xx. st. hp xx lk buer xx deathcrawl.
To expand on what Caio said a bit, usually the notation for Skullgirls combos is written with the start of each chain on a line by itself. So for this combo it would normally be written

fly, j. mk,
cr. mk xx cr. hp xx hk buer xx fly,
j. mk,
cr. mk xx cr. hp xx hk buer xx fly,
j. lp xx. j. mk,
cr. mp xx f. hk(4) xx hk buer xx fly,
j. lk xx j. mk,
cr. lk xx cr. mk xx. st. hp xx lk buer xx deathcrawl.

Then you can see just by looking at it, this first j.MK starts the combo, this second j.MK is fine because you're in phase whatever, the next c.MK is also ok because you're in phase whatever, and for the rest of the combo you don't start a chain with a move you've already used. I don't know how helpful that actually is but I think it looks nice :)
 
mcpeanuts said:
This post is like a week old but I don't come in here that often ok. I'm just curious what kinds of resets you would use in this situation. Reason I'm asking is you probably don't want to do crossup resets unless your back is to the corner. I mean if you're resetting because you're not close enough to the corner then it doesn't make sense to cross up and end up on the other side still far away from the corner. The best resets I know with this character are either crossups or require assists, the other stuff I know is like babby restand high/low stuff that gets you Dynamo'd.

<_<

Remember, PW corner carry works from half-stage.

cr.LK,cr.MK,s.HP xx LK.Buer > xx Fly >
6j.LK >
cr.MK xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
3j.LP >
s.MP >
Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
OTG j.MP

So you either get them to the corner, or you do a crossup reset when your back is to the stage.
 
Dime_x said:
Here's a question worth asking:

Whats your biggest combo starting from full undizzy? Aka most optimized combo from that point?


I dug this up. Was meaning to post this back when you asked. Just shy of 6.9k with Assist.
 
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But.. That isnt from full undizzy!

Is that like the wrong video?
 
Krackatoa said:
Nothing but Deathcrawl in Stage 5.



Hmmm... Ok. I wasnt even looking at the stage i was just looking at the undizzy going up. So i take it that you can offset the stage going up by using airstrings instead of ground ones?


Thx for that :) i now have some experiments to do to see if i can eek out some more damage from my optimal undizzy combo.
 
Stage 1
Instant Air j.LP,j.MK,j.HP(4) (+Call Bomber Assist) xx Air.LK.Buer >
Stage 2
j.LP,j.MK,j.HK >
Stage 3
j.LP,j.MK,j.HP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
Stage 4
9j.LK,j.HP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer >
Stage 5
OTG Deathcrawl DHC Damage
 
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Damage Extender from raw tag. Idk how if I can optimize anymore?
Any ideas @Krackatoa

I can work with more undizzy if I keep out the j hk after the initial chain and call pinion dash right as I hit them. So it would be
(CH)jhp jhk call pinion
jump jhp jhk adc jhp jhk
cr mp
hk airball
cr hp xx tag

instead of
(CH) jhp jhk
jhk call pinion
jump jhp jhk adc jhp jhk
cr mp
hk airball
cr hp xx tag
 
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You need to shave a few points of Undizzy off the Filia portion, you're right on the cusp of fitting in this string:

Raw Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.MP xx Air.LK.Buer (60)
OTG s.MK(4) > HK.Buer xx Fly > (100)
j.HP(4) > (130)
s.LP,s.LK,s.MK(4),s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

You either want to do that, or eliminate the j.MK+j.MP for a j.LK xx Air.LK.Buer

Raw Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.LK xx Air.LK.Buer (55)
OTG s.MK(4) > HK.Buer xx Fly > (95)
j.HP(4) > (125)
s.LP,s.LK,s.MK(4),s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

In the end, you just want to squeeze in another Buer, while replacing unscaling-friendly moves like j.MK with scaling-friendly moves. If you can't squeeze either of these in, you're at Maximum Buerficiency.
 
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Krackatoa said:
You need to shave a few points of Undizzy off the Filia portion, you're right on the cusp of fitting in this string:

Raw Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.MP xx Air.LK.Buer (60)
OTG s.MK(4) > HK.Buer xx Fly > (100)
j.HP(4) > (130)
s.LP,s.LK,s.MK(4),s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

You either want to do that, or eliminate the j.MK+j.MP for a j.LK xx Air.LK.Buer

Raw Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.LK xx Air.LK.Buer (55)
OTG s.MK(4) > HK.Buer xx Fly > (95)
j.HP(4) > (125)
s.LP,s.LK,s.MK(4),s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

In the end, you just want to squeeze in another Buer, while replacing unscaling-friendly moves like j.MK with scaling-friendly moves...
you have to remember that IPS watches the filia normals, so you can't do the jhp off a hk buer later in the combo since I use jumping heavies on the filia part.

I don't know that forgoing the heavies with filia for more damage later is a good idea, seeing as how I want the most damage with filia in the beginning of the combo where it won't be scaled. If you look, I don't touch any lights or medium buttons (besides cr mp) with filia's portion at all
 
WarpedEcho said:
you have to remember that IPS watches the filia normals, so you can't do the jhp off a hk buer later in the combo since I use jumping heavies on the filia part.

I don't know that forgoing the heavies with filia for more damage later is a good idea, seeing as how I want the most damage with filia in the beginning of the combo where it won't be scaled. If you look, I don't touch any lights or medium buttons (besides cr mp) with filia's portion at all

Oh, haaaa. I never really do tag combos, so I didn't knooow.

Welp:

Raw Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.MP xx Air.LK.Buer > (60)
OTG s.MK(4) > HK.Buer xx Fly > (100)
j.MK > (120)
s.LP,s.LK,s.MK(4),s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

At first glance, best you're gonna get.

For 95 you could do:

Air Buer xx Fly > j.MP Restand >
Ground LK.Buer xx Fly >
j.LP xx Air.LK.Buer >
OTG Ending Series
 
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