PBGC, is it really this hard?

[JennyCage]

So I'm new to Skullgirls, been playing for a couple weeks. I come from a KOF background and I never played Marvel, so it's been a rather large adjustment to make. Here's my issue... assists seem to be extremely powerful, capable of creating perpetual blockstun. When I asked some higher level players what the solution was, they said PBGC. Great! Except, it feels like getting the green flash PBGC is similar to a 1-2 frame link. I sat in training mode with a friend for 40+ minutes trying to get it to work, but it's a once out of maybe every 25 tries thing. I've watched YouTube videos about it, they say wait until the animation is nearly finished and to be standing at neutral before inputting the command. Didn't seem to help much... still extremely difficult to do.

Is there a trick to getting PBGC to work more consistently?

 

[Hirokuni]

Is there a trick to getting PBGC to work more consistently?

Not really. Just keep practicing them. I suggest starting with trying to PBGC Bella's Diamond Dynamo first, since it's, in my opinion, the easiest thing to PBGC in the game and it's always consistent in comparison to say, Catheads. And remember to not hold back while attempting the PBGC.

Also (I may be wrong on this) I believe there's a 3~ frame buffer window for reversals, and that applies to PBGCing as well. So it's not necessarily a very small window, it's simply that the timing may be different with different kinds of moves.

EDIT: Another thing you can try is to set the dummy to do a move, you block it then pushblock, then hold up. When your character jumps or gets hit is approximately the time when you should input the reversal.

 

[Kitsuziza]

I don't consider my self to be a great player by any mean but I don't feel that they are that difficult to do. If you push block wait like a quarter of a second then just mash out the move works for me most of the time. Keep in mind the success on the PBGC will vary based on what move you try to do. For instance it's easy for me to PBGC vals scalpels because it's fairly fast but when trying to do the same with Eliza's level one it can be more difficult cause it's slower.

Not every PBGC will work in every situation.

 

[obregon]

Mike patched the PB reversal flash thing to only show in the case where you used a pushblock that negated some amount of blockstun compared to not pushblocking. If you're just trying to do a reversal at the end of any "regular" pushblock it won't flash anymore. If you want a simple way to work on pushblock reversals by seeing the green flash, you can practice doing reversals after pushblocking stuff that does a huge amount of regular blockstun (e.g. Bella's j.HK as a jump-in).

The reversal window input leniency works normally on pushblock reversals, so it's not hard under normal conditions. However, if you're trying to do something like a pushblock reversal in the middle of a multihit move like bella's cerecopter or a Val j.MP, you will be getting hit with a lot of little bits of hitstop that can throw off your timing.

 

[JennyCage]

Thanks for all the information everyone. Obregon, am I correct to assume the green flash is not a requirement of a successful PBGC, rather it's a situational component of it? We were judging our success/failure based on whether we got the green flash or not.

 

[Mr. X]

Easiest way to see the timing is to pushblock and hold up, that way you can get a visual from the pushblock animation and sense of timing for when you can input a reversal.

Then from there, practing inputting an invincible move like a super.

 

[obregon]

Thanks for all the information everyone. Obregon, am I correct to assume the green flash is not a requirement of a successful PBGC, rather it's a situational component of it? We were judging our success/failure based on whether we got the green flash or not.

Yes. The current version of the green flash comes out when you do a special or super with reversal timing after some pushblocks (ones that had the effect of reducing the amount of blockstun you were in). Green flash PBGCs are a subset of all PBGCs, sufficient but not necessary.

 

[D.R.E.]

so i'm in my head about PBGC'ing..


i wanna kinda clear some theory up in my brain before I start practicing it..

ok, so lets say I'm trying to PBGC into Napalm Pillar.

so lets say, I'm dealing with cerecopter, and..Cr mk FIllia assist.

cerecopter comes out first..then they call Fillia assist..

so I would down back block the cereecopter to start charging the Pillar, pushblock the last hit of cerecopter (which activates the frames of absolute guard), while simultaneously moving my joy stick to down position then finish the motion for Pillar..and if I'm not mistaken, it would beat out the remaining frames of the Fillia cr. mk which gives me a clean reversal situation?

 

[IsaVulpes]

You don't get AG if you don't switch guard
To PBGC Pillar while having access to AG, you need to pushblock while standing

 

[D.R.E.]

so how do i keep charge? or am i mistaken about AG? is it the invincibility of Pilliar thats helping me out there?

 

[IsaVulpes]

Absolute Guard = Pushblock, then switch Guard;
So either: Hold Downback, Pushblock, go to Back
Or: Hold Back, Pushblock, go to Downback

Obviously you can't charge Pillar while you are holding Back
So you need to do the second one (Back, Pushblock, then Downback to start charging) if you want AG before your PBGC.

 

[Sydoh]

for PBGC you have to not be holding down or back, actually.
When you do a motion, it's valid for a larger window than it seems, so you can do your input right before your PB ends, then hit the button after.

 

[Obama320]

When I asked some higher level players what the solution was, they said PBGC. Great! Except, it feels like getting the green flash PBGC is similar to a 1-2 frame link. I sat in training mode with a friend for 40+ minutes trying to get it to work, but it's a once out of maybe every 25 tries thing. I've watched YouTube videos about it, they say wait until the animation is nearly finished and to be standing at neutral before inputting the command. Didn't seem to help much... still extremely difficult to do.

 

[Dime]

When I asked some higher level players what the solution was, they said PBGC. Great! Except, it feels like getting the green flash PBGC is similar to a 1-2 frame link. I sat in training mode with a friend for 40+ minutes trying to get it to work, but it's a once out of maybe every 25 tries thing. I've watched YouTube videos about it, they say wait until the animation is nearly finished and to be standing at neutral before inputting the command. Didn't seem to help much... still extremely difficult to do.

Green pbgc arent the only pbgc there is. You can pbgc without cutting your blockstun short, which wont result in a green pbgc.

As far as regular pbgc, the most powerful ones are also the easiest. Just pushblock, then at around the time you think the pushblock will end, do your invincible startup super move, BUT! The trick is to do the super input (qcf or qcb) 3 times while pressing the corresponding kicks or punches at the end of your input.

This is called "mashing" when i pbgc i generally do,this mash anywhere from 3-5 times depending on how long the pushblock lasts.


This is an easier way to get out pbgc because you flood the end of the pushblock with reversal inputs.


Also remember that on retail version that your move has to end at forward.

 

[Cynical]

Also remember that on retail version that your move has to end at forward.

Not true; neutral is also fine (it's how I PBGC Parasoul level 3)

 

[Evilweevle]

i feel like certain stuff in this game is way too hgard to pbgc. catheads for instance is super frigging hard to do. it seems that the catheads extend the pushblock animation and so the timing is completely different than a regular pbgc.

the amount of times ive successfully pbgc'd out of catheadds is almost nil, compared to just regular stuff im usually semi successful at. it really sucks becuause catheads should be prime pbgc fodder but nowadays i end up just trying to block the whole damn thing which most times is a fruitless task.

anyone else found this?

 

[Cynical]

i feel like certain stuff in this game is way too hgard to pbgc. catheads for instance is super frigging hard to do. it seems that the catheads extend the pushblock animation and so the timing is completely different than a regular pbgc.

the amount of times ive successfully pbgc'd out of catheadds is almost nil, compared to just regular stuff im usually semi successful at. it really sucks becuause catheads should be prime pbgc fodder but nowadays i end up just trying to block the whole damn thing which most times is a fruitless task.

anyone else found this?

Pretty sure that it's intentional that your opponent can fuck with the timing of your "literally negate all pressure and beat everything for free" option.

If PBGC *wasn't* "hard", this game would be stupid as fuck.

 

[Jason]

The easiest move to PBGC against is either Cerebella's Cerecopter or Eliza's Osiris Spiral. Record the training dummy doing those moves and pratice them.

Its certainly possible to do a move that ends in 'back' as a PBGC but its more difficult. You have to input the move during the 3-4 frame buffer window and let go of the back direction before it comes out.

 

[sauce_fonda]

I'm currently working on a guide to make PBGCing easier to understand and perform. Although, please bare with me, I'm not really good at explaining things and I apologize that I don't have recording hardware to make a video.

First and foremost, to find PBGCs and better understand when to perform the pushblock I set the training options to the following.

• Attack Data: Adavanced
• Hitstun Bar: On
• Select Button: Dummy Record/Playback OR Both
• Playback Mode: As Reversal
• Blocking: Always
• Block Type: All
• Pushblock After: 1st Hit through 10th Hit (Depending on the normal, special, block string, or blockbuster)
• Pushblock: Always

I'll record a move with the dummy. In this example I set the dummy to Cerabella's Diamond Dynamo as a reversal and then I performed Ceracopter. In the first screenshot you'll notice the start-up of Ceracopter (in this screenshot it's 12 frames in).

As you can see in this second screenshot, the dummy push blocks the first hit of Ceracopter (on the 20th frame), but you can actually PBGC up to the 6th hit and punish your opponent. Also, you can notice when to PBGC by watching the hitstun bar deplete.

From what I've learned and my method is that you block a move, pushblock, then let go off block, and perform the special move or blockbuster at the end of the pushblock animation (which I think is 25f, but correct me if I'm wrong). The timing is pretty tight and I compare the risk/reward on the same level of a parry in Third Strike, but it takes practice to understand the timing and which moves work for the given situation.

And that's a successful PBGC.

Hope this helps in a way.

 

[Hilary]

i feel like certain stuff in this game is way too hgard to pbgc. catheads for instance is super frigging hard to do. it seems that the catheads extend the pushblock animation and so the timing is completely different than a regular pbgc.

the amount of times ive successfully pbgc'd out of catheadds is almost nil, compared to just regular stuff im usually semi successful at. it really sucks becuause catheads should be prime pbgc fodder but nowadays i end up just trying to block the whole damn thing which most times is a fruitless task.

anyone else found this?

You need to get intimately familiar with your characters' pushblock animations. If you're familiar with your characters' animations it makes it just as easy as any other reversal, but more importantly, you can spend more of your focus during the pushblock on switching your guard for absolute guard if you feel there's a high/low risk.

It also allows you to watch their character more intently and decide whether you even want to PBGC; i.e., if they're too far for your reversal/super to hit or they're not sticking anything out after the pushblock or sitting in command grab range waiting for you to leave blockstun.

 

[Icky]

You need to get intimately familiar with your characters' pushblock animations. If you're familiar with your characters' animations it makes it just as easy as any other reversal, but more importantly, you can spend more of your focus during the pushblock on switching your guard for absolute guard if you feel there's a high/low risk.

It also allows you to watch their character more intently and decide whether you even want to PBGC; i.e., if they're too far for your reversal/super to hit or they're not sticking anything out after the pushblock or sitting in command grab range waiting for you to leave blockstun.

Hillary is literally the king of pushblocking, so trust his advice.

I did not read it though, because TL;DR

 

[Hilary]

Hillary is literally the king of pushblocking, so trust his advice.

I did not read it though, because TL;DR

lmfao "it's good shit. didn't read it at all though."

 

[sauce_fonda]

Yo, @Hilary. Do you have any footage of your matches, I'd love to see your dope mastery of PBGCing to study.

 

[Evilweevle]

You need to get intimately familiar with your characters' pushblock animations. If you're familiar with your characters' animations it makes it just as easy as any other reversal, but more importantly, you can spend more of your focus during the pushblock on switching your guard for absolute guard if you feel there's a high/low risk.

It also allows you to watch their character more intently and decide whether you even want to PBGC; i.e., if they're too far for your reversal/super to hit or they're not sticking anything out after the pushblock or sitting in command grab range waiting for you to leave blockstun.

so youu are saying i should be using visual clues to see when im about to leave the pushblock animation and then input my reversal (or nothing)

usually i will just figure like 30 frames and then put in my reversal no matter whhat it is i am blocking, but catheads just keeps that animation going fooooreveeeer it seems. thats what throws me off all the time.

 

[sauce_fonda]

i feel like certain stuff in this game is way too hgard to pbgc. catheads for instance is super frigging hard to do. it seems that the catheads extend the pushblock animation and so the timing is completely different than a regular pbgc.

I dabbled with finding PBGCs that can punish Catheads and this is what I found out just now. Cerabella can beat out Catheads with Diamond Dynamo and Battle Butt, but only when close to the opponent. But you're right, Catheads is pretty hard because of its sporadic nature, but I was able to pull off a PBGC by pushblocking then spamming the inputs for Diamond Dynamo.

 

[Hilary]

Cat-heads can be tough depending on what you're using for the reversal and how they're actually activating the cats. If they're smart they have different means of activating the cats with inputs that don't sacrifice their position to pushblocks, mixup/stagger the heads by dropping the pressure for a bit to throw off timings, and avoid your character's reversal options.

Like in this situation, Goose could've been doing airthrows or jLPs instead and this wouldn't even have been on the table.

Honestly if you want good footage of PBGCs, I'd recommend Sage's matches over anyone else's.

TJ also has really good PBGC MBangs with Peacock.

 

[Mike_Z]

I guess this thread was revived...

The new example I use to teach PBGC is to record a dummy Fortune doing s.MK(2 hits)->s.HP->LP rekkas. This is a true blockstring, but if you pushblock the first hit of s.MK you can jump out of the first rekka and presto, PBGC in action easily.

- When you pushblock, your character always goes through the 25-frame-long pushblock animation. It can be longer if you are put into hitstop more times by being hit by more things, but it is always at least 25f. Once that animation completes, if you are not holding Back or Down you are free to move even if there was supposed to be blockstun remaining.
- The PBGC "window" is 6f to get a green flash, but often the window to successfully PBGC is shorter or longer than that, since it lasts from the end of the pushblock until your opponent's next attack. If they are going to hit you 1f after your pushblock animation ends, then you only have 1f to get your reversal. If they are going to hit you 40f after your pushblock animation ends then you have 40f. So in reality the timing for a PBGC depends most on what your opponent is doing. It is easiest to confirm visually, I have found.
- The green flash only happens if you actually saved yourself from some blockstun. In other words, you will only flash green if you reversal when there was going to be more blockstun that the end of pushblock freed you from. If this was not the case, you can still reversal after your pushblock, it just won't flash.

 

[Evilweevle]

hmmm. sounds like i am going to have to go back to the drawing board on my PBGCs and try and get used to doing it visually.

 

[Hilary]

hmmm. sounds like i am going to have to go back to the drawing board on my PBGCs and try and get used to doing it visually.

Word.

Just remember that supers/reversals aren't the only thing worth doing with your ability to PBGC.

Sometimes jumping is the best option. Sometimes jabbing is the best option. Sometimes throwing is the best option. Sometimes blocking with AG is the best option. Sometimes you don't even wanna pushblock to begin with.

 

[sauce_fonda]

Do you get a green flash with a jump or a normal? Also, I didn't know it was possible to PBGC into a throw, or am I understanding this wrong?

 

[Mike_Z]

Do you get a green flash with a jump or a normal? Also, I didn't know it was possible to PBGC into a throw, or am I understanding this wrong?

You do not get a green flash unless it's a reversal special or super.

You can PBGC into anything, since "pushblock guard cancel" just means cancelling your blockstun with the end of pushblock, what you do afterward is up to you. It's just a specific reversal opportunity, the action is your choice.

 

[Jason]

Word.

Just remember that supers/reversals aren't the only thing worth doing with your ability to PBGC.

Sometimes jumping is the best option. Sometimes jabbing is the best option. Sometimes throwing is the best option. Sometimes blocking with AG is the best option. Sometimes you don't even wanna pushblock to begin with.

There's also all kinds of places where pushblocking a multi-hit move in the middle makes it more unsafe. PBGC into a something like a jab can get you a full punish on something that's normally safe on block, like Fukua cr.MK into LK Drill.

 

[Golbat]

You do not get a green flash unless it's a reversal special or super.

I know this is asking to be spoonfed but why not green flash for reversal PBGCs and another color for the rest of what you can do on PBGC?

 

[Mike_Z]

I know this is asking to be spoonfed but why not green flash for reversal PBGCs and another color for the rest of what you can do on PBGC?

Because I tried that and it was really annoying while playing. I didn't even mind it on normals or throws that much, so I guess I could re-add that, but on jumps it was really bleh.

 

[Golbat]

Because I tried that and it was really annoying while playing. I didn't even mind it on normals or throws that much, so I guess I could re-add that, but on jumps it was really bleh.

is there any footage of this? thanks for the reply, didn't know if something like this had already been considered.

 

[Mike_Z]

is there any footage of this? thanks for the reply, didn't know if something like this had already been considered.

Nope, I did it during the initial implementation.
We'll try PBGC on normals and throws though.