Peacock Rushdown Discussion: Pressure, Mixups etc

[Mr Peck]

Peacock has a bunch of projectiles and zoning tools, but you don't have to play her as pure keepaway. I figured I'd make a thread to talk about the rushdown side of Peacock: approaching people, keeping up pressure, mixups and so on.

Just to be clear: this isn't meant to be a replacement for a combo thread or a reset thread. It's more about discussing ways to land a hit in the first place, instead of discussing what to do after you hit them.

Anyway, I'll start by posting a few things from this Youtube playlist that I recorded while Skullheart was down.

Safe blockstrings and basic high/low/throw mixups:

Mixups after a blocked j.MK:

Keeping up pressure after being pushblocked:

 

[Dime]

Great stuff. For me the hardest thing to overcome with rushdown peacock is pushblocking and blocking in general.

I think one of her strongest offensive styles that doesn't rely on highly complicated blockstrings or knowing exactly where the enemy will pushblock is her teleport crossup game.

I really like using painwheels mp stinger to set her up:

St.hp plus assist, teleport behind or in front of opponent.

It's super deadly anytime peacock can guess a normal block from her opponent. The biggest downside to this is that IMHO peacock needs a gtfo style assist so using a fireball assist almost requires her to use a trio team so that she can also have a gtfo assist.

I'll toss up some match vids of me using that assist later.

 

[winnie]

NOOOO Mr Peck don't teach people this stuff keep away peacock is already really annoying I don't want to have to learn how to block this stuff! :eek:

 

[Horseman]

NOOOO Mr Peck don't teach people this stuff keep away peacock is already really annoying I don't want to have to learn how to block this stuff! :eek:

I feel like rushdown peacock is less of an alternative to zoning and more of something to be used in addition to it. Or at least that's how I play her. Especially considering all of her combos that end on an argus agony (I.E. all of them) end with your opponent pretty far away from you, and there's no reason not to zone when you're far away, so even if you master this stuff it would be rather silly not to take advantage of distance.

Anyways, this might be because I'm not nearly as super kool pro MLG as you are, but I have no idea why you air grab before you ground grab in some of your mix-ups, like 0:25 in the first video. Is that you trying to catch them in mid-air, or does that somehow contribute to the mix-up? Are you depending on them expecting air normals? It seems like that would make it easier for your opponent to predict your grab and therefore tech out of it, and wouldn't it also be really easy to punish?

 

[mcpeanuts]

Anyways, this might be because I'm not nearly as super kool pro MLG as you are, but I have no idea why you air grab before you ground grab in some of your mix-ups, like 0:25 in the first video. Is that you trying to catch them in mid-air, or does that somehow contribute to the mix-up? Are you depending on them expecting air normals? It seems like that would make it easier for your opponent to predict your grab and therefore tech out of it, and wouldn't it also be really easy to punish?

Whiffed air grabs can't be pushblocked.

 

[Mr Peck]

Anyways, this might be because I'm not nearly as super kool pro MLG as you are, but I have no idea why you air grab before you ground grab in some of your mix-ups, like 0:25 in the first video. Is that you trying to catch them in mid-air, or does that somehow contribute to the mix-up? Are you depending on them expecting air normals? It seems like that would make it easier for your opponent to predict your grab and therefore tech out of it, and wouldn't it also be really easy to punish?

Airdash into whiffed airthrow is just a way of faking an overhead and landing quickly to go into a low/throw. It also baits out people who preemptively pushblock as soon as you start instant airdashing in their face. Peacock's IAD airthrow whiff > land is nowhere near as fast as Filia's IAD airthrow whiff > land > c.LK, but it's not completely terrible.

Also if they happen to jump at the exact right time and you catch them with the air throw, it makes you look like a genius.

I feel like rushdown peacock is less of an alternative to zoning and more of something to be used in addition to it. Or at least that's how I play her. Especially considering all of her combos that end on an argus agony (I.E. all of them) end with your opponent pretty far away from you, and there's no reason not to zone when you're far away, so even if you master this stuff it would be rather silly not to take advantage of distance.?

To be pedantic: it's true that most of Peacock's full combos end in Argus Agony, but you don't have to do full combo into a super every time you land a clean hit. Peacock has ridiculous reset potential (much like everyone else in this game) and there's nothing stopping you from trying to reset someone to death from 100% health if you wish to do so.

 

[Horseman]

To be pedantic: it's true that most of Peacock's full combos end in Argus Agony, but you don't have to do full combo into a super every time you land a clean hit. Peacock has ridiculous reset potential (much like everyone else in this game) and there's nothing stopping you from trying to reset someone to death from 100% health if you wish to do so.

Like I said, it's more of a playstyle thing than a necessity. There's nothing stopping you from resetting, but at the same time she has a big advantage at a range, a few match-ups aside (looking at you, Ms.Fortune.)

 

[RemiKz]

I have a somewhat autopilot block string that leads into a 50/50 or into a combo if they actually get hit.

I simply do LP, MP+cerecopter, HP xx MP SoiD.

If they block, I get a SoiD crossup mixup. If they actually get hit, I can dash up and do MK, j.HK, release shadow, and go on with my combo.

Another thing I tend to do is end my combos with c.HK xx MK George. As long as you cancel into george with the proper timing, you can HK teleport to crossup your opponent on his backwards tech or just let it slide as it catches them if they try to forward tech towards you or away from you and continue pressure.

 

[Dime]

I need help with a new combo convention that I can't get to hit consistently:

Using peacock/painwheel and painwheel with qcf+mp assist:
(Point blank or near to that)
1 hit St.hp+assist xx Lenny, argus agony:

When done right, this causes Lenny to explode just as argus ends, and makes the opponents character do a full Lenny Bounce which would allow for all kinds of followups... But I can't get the bounce consistent and I don't know why. This is tested on sde against parasoul. I've tried using different spacings for the hp starter, as well as different timings for the argus link.
But I can't get it at all consistent... Any ideas?

 

[View619]

Try this, Dime:

st.hp xx M SOID + assist...

Try to combo off of the level 2(?) item drop after the Lenny explosion.

 

[Dime]

Try this, Dime:

st.hp xx M SOID + assist...

Try to combo off of the level 2(?) item drop after the Lenny explosion.

I don't think m soid plus assist is possible? It will give you a fake teleport iirc.
Peacocks k specials seem to take priority when doing assist plus special.

 

[Horseman]

Try this, Dime:

st.hp xx M SOID + assist...

Try to combo off of the level 2(?) item drop after the Lenny explosion.

I think he wants lenny to explode after the last laser from argus hits but before they lose hitstun so that they fly in his direction.

 

[View619]

Try assist during the H, then cancel it into SOID immediately after. I usually do something like that with Cerecopter.

Edit: Also, I just saw it but Peacock rapes Fortune at range, rapes her. The head eats bombs for free and she can't do shit about Argus xx SOID for the chip. Add to that a tracking SOID that we can charge while having access to some of her best normals and it only gets worse.

I remember people used to say that Peacock/Fortune is in Fortune's favor because if Fortune gets in once, she can end it. But that's pretty stupid because you can say the same thing for Gief/Sim pretty much, yet Sim beats him for obvious reasons. Fiber Upper gets shot out of the sky, head gets bombed, hell I think Bella does better at range than Fortune. Fortune has to have the worst ranged game out of the entire cast.

 

[Mr Peck]

I made a quick video of some basic fuzzy guard setups for Peacock.

You use a deep jump-in to force your opponent into standing blockstun, then you can go for high/low mixups with c.MK or a rising j.LP. You can convert the j.LP into a combo with either an item drop or an assist.

 

[View619]

So, every ground throw is a fuzzy guard/left-right setup? Good news for the rush down Peacocks!

 

[Broken Loose]

So, every ground throw is a fuzzy guard/left-right setup? Good news for the rush down Peacocks!

What? No. God no. Fuzzy Guard is about putting people into standing blockstun while they're trying to block low so you can hit them with overheads easier.

 

[View619]

What? No. God no. Fuzzy Guard is about putting people into standing blockstun while they're trying to block low so you can hit them with overheads easier.

Umm, Peacock can ground throw you, charge an item drop, rush in, go for a high and go for Peck's fuzzy setups. How about you ask what I mean instead of making assumptions that I don't know what I'm talking about? Or ignore me, whichever is easier.

If it's no longer possible to set-up a tracking item after ground throw though, then I understand where the confusion is.

 

[Broken Loose]

Umm, Peacock can ground throw you, charge an item drop, rush in, go for a high and go for Peck's fuzzy setups. How about you ask what I mean instead of making assumptions that I don't know what I'm talking about? Or ignore me, whichever is easier.

If it's no longer possible to set-up a tracking item after ground throw though, then I understand where the confusion is.

You can block item drops low unless they're one of the overhead level 3's. If you're getting a level 3 charge off a throw, then I want your copy of the game.

The opponent can just crouch block the item drop and avoid the fuzzy setup with no hassle at all.

 

[RemiKz]

You can block item drops low unless they're one of the overhead level 3's. If you're getting a level 3 charge off a throw, then I want your copy of the game.

The opponent can just crouch block the item drop and avoid the fuzzy setup with no hassle at all.

I think you are totally missing the point. He means:

Throw xx MP SoiD, run in and do a deep jump in, fuzzy j.LP and drop the item to combo off it.

 

[View619]

I think you are totally missing the point. He means:

Throw xx MP SoiD, run in and do a deep jump in, fuzzy j.LP and drop the item to combo off it.

Bingo, somebody is thinking! I like it! Going even further than that, you can probably throw the L George for the jumping left/right setup after the ground throw, land the deep jump-in from that and go for the fuzzy with assist. So, it's not too obvious that you're going for the fuzzy based on charging the M SOID.

 

[Mr Peck]

One of the problems I've had recently as Peacock is dealing with big slow air moves like Double j.HP, Cerebella j.MP and Ms Fortune j.HK, so I decided to come up with a safe and consistent way of converting a quick air-to-air j.LP into a standard bnb that would work from a normal jump or a super jump. I found one, so here's a video of it:

That's j.LP > j.LK (3 hits) > j.HP, airdash, j.LP > j.MP, land

 

[Mr Peck]

Also, the changes to up-back in the Squigly patch were causing me to have trouble opening people up, as I used to heavily rely on using j.MK frame traps to punish people for attempting to jump away from my pressure. With the current patch, any j.MK attempt on an upbacking opponent will automatically be blocked high on the ground, letting them pushblock me away.

Fortunately, I found a way around it. If you airdash-cancel a j.MK your opponent is allowed to jump away using up-back, so airdashing a couple of frames before the j.MK hits will cause any upbacking opponent to start jumping back and immediately get hit out of their jump startup. Here is a video where I attempt to explain this using words:

 

[View619]

Do a Peacock guide please, Peck! You're posting up everything that I'm too lazy/unable to record! :)

 

[Mr Peck]

Thanks for the compliment! I'd love to make a guide, but to be honest my neutral game really isn't good enough for it yet. I'd hate to be one of those people who fills a character guide with pages and pages of mixups and resets yet can't adequately explain how to get into a situation where you can land them in the first place.

I'm fully concentrating on this aspect of my game now and I'll be posting stuff here as I learn things (or making a Peacock matchup thread if necessary). If I get to the point where I'd feel comfortable making a guide I'll do so, but in the meantime there's always my Peacock youtube playlist.

 

[RemiKz]

I didn't realize you could have the j.MK hitbox active for that long after an airdash. That's pretty neat.

 

[RemiKz]

I noticed in Mr.Peck's video he mentioned Infy's crossunder setup in the corner. I actually made two videos on this a long time ago demonstrating how SoiD works on block and on hit when someone asked me about it, but didn't realize until just now that I had the videos set to unlisted the whole time lol. Sorry for the crappy phone recordings. I'm going to try to see if I can get fraps or xsplit to recording my game without causing too much slowdown.

Here's a reset on hit. Doesn't seem to work on Filia for some reason.

This is just showing that you can cross-up someone in the corner on hit or block with SoiD.

 

[Age]

 

[Age]

The idea here is to make the opponent choose between waiting for the whole wallbounce+knockdown, or risking a whiffed burst. If the burst hits, peacock just gets knocked full screen, so it's advantage either way.

This builds on that idea, and this series makes me think it's actually a possibly metagame changing reset style.

Since there's so many chances to burst at the wrong time (I've worked out stuff for baits at hits up to 5 so far) and if the burst is right peacock is still at an advantage, the reset is extremely good risk/reward-wise. Not to mention they are pressured more and more to do something since damage is being added on while they hesitate. If they do hesitate a lot you can always go for a grab which will be tougher to tech without triggering burst.

 

[Mike_Z]

This is unrelated, but if you unpause the game from the training mode menu (rather than backing all the way out) it should remember where you were in the menu so you don't have to scroll back every time.

On topic
(O.o)
This gives a bit more credibility to my growing suspicion that bursts should always recover to able-to-block.

 

[Age]

This is unrelated, but if you unpause the game from the training mode menu (rather than backing all the way out) it should remember where you were in the menu so you don't have to scroll back every time.

On topic
(O.o)
This gives a bit more credibility to my growing suspicion that bursts should always recover to able-to-block.

Ew. I think the possibility of a burst-safe infinite is extremely low from what I've tried, stuff like this just makes it way more important for the defender to time their burst. Bursts can still be alpha countered anyway, so if this sort of thing ever became that strong there would still be counterplay options.

 

[RemiKz]

This gives a bit more credibility to my growing suspicion that bursts should always recover to able-to-block.

I really hope you aren't serious on this. You'd be taking away the biggest counter-measure against people that mash mid-combo.

 

[Mike_Z]

Oh, there should always be some kind of punish available, be it throwing bursts on startup or them having vulnerability at the end if baited. But if you're baiting it you're prepared to punish so I'm not sure they need to be vulnerable during the entire fall, is all I'm saying.
Don't worry it's not gonna change, the SG burst metagame is what it is. It's only an observation.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Check this shit out, it looks really really fair:

 

[RemiKz]

I'm definitely stealing that

 

[mcpeanuts]

I'm definitely stealing that

Same

 

[View619]

Peacock confirmed for best incoming mix-ups.

 

[Beamsprouts]

I feel like rushdown peacock is less of an alternative to zoning and more of something to be used in addition to it.

I feel exactly the same way. Peacock has a pretty hard time getting close to people without getting hit or put in blockstun, at which point you're immediately at a disadvantage because she wasn't designed to have powerful options up close. I'm not saying she doesn't have potential for mixups, but I'm saying that when you put her in a neutral state in front of someone else in a neutral state you ain't gonna come out on top unless you're actively outplaying them.

Also props to everyone for being twice as creative as I am. I have a couple of cross ups coming out of combos but next to nothing that resembles this.

 

[Hilary]

Check this shit out, it looks really really fair:

well fuck

 

[RemiKz]

Obviously you don't need to do the grab and can just do LP, but that was just to show you can combo into LK George.

Really simple but effective in certain MU's. The plane won't let Filia use gregor or airdash and characters without a double jump just kinda have to deal with it.

Different cross under

Alternative to the previous one

Alternative to the alternative


I'm also working on something kind of neat with her airgrab, but I want to see if I can optimize it more.

 

[Age]

This is just an idea, but I'm not sure how best to implement it. The goal is to get safe lockdown into a hard to blockable off a throw.

As far as I know the initial left/right with copter is safe since peacock can block a reversal. Then the question is can you avoid getting pushblocked before the item(high) or c.hp (low) hits.