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Possible new IPS

So I just got off of a handfull of online matches in beta, and I have to say I'm really digging the current combo length, assuming starting with zero undizzy. Combos end RIGHT when I start thinking to myself "man this combo sure is going on for a while." As a matter of fact it hits that point so perfectly that it catches me off guard, like "man this combo sure is going on for-OH SHIT IT ENDED MUST DO THINGS."

I'm not really sure where I weigh in on the whole "undizzy starts counting at stage 3 vs stage 5" argument, but I feel like if that gets shifted around, the undizzy value itself should be altered to keep combos from getting much longer from where they are now, because I think we've got a sweet spot.
 
IsaVulpes said:
I get the thought behind this, but do you REALLY think Filia needs Buffs?
Is it really a buff at this point, though? She wouldn't be able to keep doing it for very long, anymore.
 
Stop trying to buff Filia. Buff Fortune instead.
 
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Guys, let me tell you about my idea to change Double's catheads back to 1 bar.
 
here is an insite on how mike balances his game

HLCqWX5.png
 
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DDB said:
Stop trying to buff Filia. Buff Fortune instead.
Bro, I'm telling ya, Nom loops need a comeback.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
I get the thought behind this, but do you REALLY think Filia needs Buffs?


Good point. But I never had qualms with filias comboability, mainly it's her iad and assist updo that make me groan. However since I'm probably the worst filia player in history, I cant really tell how it would affect her comboability with the current undizzy.

I just always thought it was really cool in combos :p
 
With combos getting shortened by IPS I don't see why hairball dash cancels can't be given back to Filia (along with whatever other odd limitations have been put in such as Bella's Kanchou bounces), the combos aren't going to be doing ridiculous sums of damage, it's at least worth trying with them back in to see how things go.
 
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It's a buff. There is no reason to buff a character unless it's too weak.
I don't think Filia is too weak at all. So why would you buff her?

It's good to keep in the back of the head as simple, possible compensation buffs should we nerf other things,
But if the game stayed the way it is, I don't see any reason at all to give Filia more damage, stronger pressure, additional resets and whatnot else.
 
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Wouldn't giving her back the airball cancels just result in silly loops anyways? They wouldn't be long, but it's still going to be silly looking. (And give quite a bit of carry.)
 
I'd give her buffs

but I'd give more buffs to everyone else

painwheel air projectile plz
 
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DARKNESSxEAGLE said:
With combos getting shortened by IPS I don't see why hairball dash cancels can't be given back to Filia (along with whatever other odd limitations have been put in such as Bella's Kanchou bounces)

I agree with this. Putting undizzy on top of IPS makes the game look clunky to me, but having arbitrary limitations to specific characters on top of undizzy is positively revolting. I'd prefer Filia lose the dash cancels altogether, or get infinite dash cancels back. Literally any kind of design that does not involve ticking up an invisible number is agreeable to me.
 
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ukyo_rulz said:
I agree with this. Putting undizzy on top of IPS makes the game look clunky to me, but having arbitrary limitations to specific characters on top of undizzy is positively revolting. I'd prefer Filia lose the dash cancels altogether, or get infinite dash cancels back. Literally any kind of design that does not involve ticking up an invisible number is agreeable to me.
I'm not opposed to this but like others have pointed out, does Filia reeeeeeeeally need to get back her ridiculous corner carrying potential?
 
KhaosMuffins said:
I'm not opposed to this but like others have pointed out, does Filia reeeeeeeeally need to get back her ridiculous corner carrying potential?

Then remove the dash cancels altogether. I am also fine with this. Maybe everyone else has been powered down enough that old Filia is playable. It often feels like by the time the Squiggly patch gets released to consoles it'll have an LCD monitor bolted on somewhere.

"Yo dawg, I heard you like rules so I stacked rules on your rules so you can track undizzy while you track IPS while you track move counts."
 
ukyo_rulz said:
Then remove the dash cancels altogether.
Woah woah woah, let's not get crazy here, that's like taking dash cancels away from Fortune or Valentine, it's like the inverse of giving her back unlimited ADCs in that it nerfs her way more than she needs to be nerfed.
 
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Yeah removing the dash cancel completely wouldn't only nerf her combo potential, but her mobility as well. Poor old Vanilia....
 
DARKNESSxEAGLE said:
it's like the inverse of giving her back unlimited ADCs in that it nerfs her way more than she needs to be nerfed.

The whole point of the discussion was that giving her back unlimited dash cancels is no longer a significant buff because undizzy would keep the dash cancels in check. I support this not only because I agree with the core premise (undizzy will keep dash cancels in check) but also because it simplifies the game. To me simplifying the game is such an attractive proposition that I'd take a nerf to Filia to get it.
 
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Can we just get Ender tracking back in the game? That may or may not fix what's left of broken stuff (ie Horns Loops) while not touching length (you hit Undizzy early enough for it to not matter) so Combowarriors can keep paffing*, makes combos way prettier and more creative, and allows you to remove all the arbitrary "Only once per combo" limits with little to no downside - so it obviously has nothing but pluses? Yes?

*This is supposed to mean fapping, but it looked too pretty to fix
 
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^ It's an additional complication to the combo system, so no, it's not nothing but pluses. Doesn't preclude the possibility that it's a good idea, but yeah.
 
I honestly think Ender tracking could end all combo issues for SG, as Vulpes said people who like long combos can still do so with 240 undizzy, I think it would allow Mike to get rid of once per combo limitations. I don't see a downside except perhaps as Kristoph mentioned but to be honest, I think we are past the point of not having a complicated combo system *for new players*, undizzyipsonceperrestandweeee.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Can we just get Ender tracking back in the game? That may or may not fix what's left of broken stuff (ie Horns Loops) while not touching length (you hit Undizzy early enough for it to not matter) so Combowarriors can keep paffing*, makes combos way prettier and more creative, and allows you to remove all the arbitrary "Only once per combo" limits with little to no downside - so it obviously has nothing but pluses? Yes?

*This is supposed to mean fapping, but it looked too pretty to fix
I'm happy with the current changes, but I will support this as well.
 
I don't think SG's combo system being complicated is as big of an issue for newer players as you'd think.

Newer players get spoonfed combos, they can decide to be creative when they're ready.

My concern has always been more towards the damage of combos than the length. I just want to avoid situations where folks don't get to play.
 
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Man you want your opponents to actually hit you and stuff? I don't
 
If we decide to look at enders again can we go back to (or at least experiment with again) Undizzy extra count instead of tacking it onto IPS? Just so that the option to use a certain ender is still there if you want to do certain resets or just an easier combo and whatnot, but it's not suggested if you want to get the most out of your combo or corner carry. I just like the idea of "you can do this, but it's not recommended" better than "you can't do this at all". It is more complicated than just including it in IPS, yes, but at least the new undizzy bar makes it easier to keep track of than last time.
 
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KhaosMuffins said:
If we decide to look at enders again can we go back to (or at least experiment with again) Undizzy extra count instead of tacking it onto IPS? Just so that the option to use a certain ender is still there if you want to do certain resets or just an easier combo and whatnot, but it's not suggested if you want to get the most out of your combo or corner carry. I just like the idea of "you can do this, but it's not recommended" better than "you can't do this at all". It is more complicated than just including it in IPS, yes, but at least the new undizzy bar makes it easier to keep track of than last time.
This idea would be fine with me, with the bar in now. Even though it would again affect Squigly pretty hard compared to other characters haha.
 
IsaVulpes said:
??????? It didn't affect Squigly hard before, it wouldn't now
I assume you found much more effective seria-less paths than I did.
 
Kristoph said:
^ It's an additional complication to the combo system, so no, it's not nothing but pluses. Doesn't preclude the possibility that it's a good idea, but yeah.

For the record, the things that I value in a combo system are elegance, simplicity and consistency in that order. I am generally against everything that increases the combo system's complexity but tracking enders is significantly more elegant than having arbitrary restrictions to the number of times specific moves can be done in a combo.

I can't really explain why, but the addition of the undizzy bar has somehow made the mechanic 1,000,000 times more palatable to me. I'm still not exactly a fan, but I don't actively hate it anymore.
 
So with all this is there going to be a tutorial to explain this? I mean really we should be making videos to explain it at this point.
 
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Explain the version that gets ported into the main build when it gets ported.
 
IsaVulpes said:
??????? It didn't affect Squigly hard before, it wouldn't now
I believe he means [starter] -> s.HP -cancel thing> [different starter] -> s.HP -cancel thing> repeat until all but one starter is gone -> [last starter] -> s.HK -jump> air combo -> HK Divekick -> Music Super is gone (or worse)

Master Chibi said:
So with all this is there going to be a tutorial to explain this? I mean really we should be making videos to explain it at this point.
Mike said he would very much like one but no one has time right now
 
I'm not a fan of IPS ender, since it created unbalanced damage between different characters and combo paths. And it's confusing to explain to people, burst-baits get more predictable, etc. I don't feel, with the current changes, that this is even at all needed. Current system is also easier to free-flow too.
 
"unbalanced damage between different characters"


i've always found it weird when people complain about this in skullgirls. parasoul players complained about it in SDE when she had somewhat less damage output than the rest of the cast and it made no sense to me then either.

sounds like people need to play other games like guilty gear where damage output is huuugely different between characters. it's actually fun to have that kind of variety, so that would actually be a positive to me!
 
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I don't see how ender tracking is harder to explain to people than starter tracking? You just explain it the same way except replacing the word "start" with "end" ("Don't end a chain with a button you have already ended a chain with", etc.)

Also the only reason it's easier to free-flow with starter tracking is because we are already used to thinking about starter tracking. Obviously it will be hard to unlearn muscle memory but once you get used to it, it's basically the same kind of logic.
 
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My issue is basically based on the resources and tools some of the characters have in relation to others. I'm totally okay with Bella/Squigs dishing an overal 1.5-2k+ per combo. The thing is when we have characters with good AAs or safe pressure or safe reversals (and sometimes all together, headless fortune) AND the same mixup potential, to have a significant difference in damage.
 
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