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PW Meter Gain

Spencer

Spencer

Painwheel
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Painwheel Squigly
Is it low?

I find when I play (I play solo PW) that I am usually meter starved compared to my opponent. Sometimes as pronounced as 5 bars vs 3 when I go against someone like Bella.

This seems to be the case win or lose.
 
Run Car/Install/Updo and you'll have all the meter you want. :^)

In all seriousness, I think it has more to do with your solo/ratio, but yeah, it feels like PW gets less meter for doing/taking damage than my Double.
 
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Spencer said:
Is it low?

I find when I play (I play solo PW) that I am usually meter starved compared to my opponent. Sometimes as pronounced as 5 bars vs 3 when I go against someone like Bella.

This seems to be the case win or lose.


Pws meter gain is abysmal. The meter nerf hit her very hard and this new patch makes it even worse.bellas meter gain on the other hand is absolutely amazing.
 
Dime_x said:
Pws meter gain is abysmal. The meter nerf hit her very hard and this new patch makes it even worse.bellas meter gain on the other hand is absolutely amazing.

This would make sense then...

I've been in the habit of counting supers lately, and I've found myself saying "Are you kidding me? Another fucking super?" more times than I would like.

I've found that even when I am way ahead, there is a better than average chance that they are equal to or higher on meter than me.
 
Yeeep. Her meter gain is pants. Mike said he "balanced" it out across the other normals when he fixed s.MK. I laughed. She gains like .7 for a full combo, and her supers generate for more meter for the opponent than they're worth. Her opponent gains 2 Meters from full-combo + Deathcrawl ender.

You really gotta reset... a lot... to make sure you're not handing your opponent a 100% combo in certain ratios. It feels too much like a bad comeback mechanic now.
 
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Krackatoa said:
Yeeep. Her meter gain is pants. Mike said he "balanced" it out across the other normals when he fixed s.MK. I laughed. She gains like .7 for a full combo, and her supers generate for more meter for the opponent than they're worth. Her opponent gains 2 Meters from full-combo + Deathcrawl ender.

You really gotta reset... a lot... to make sure you're not handing your opponent a 100% combo in certain ratios. It feels too much like a bad comeback mechanic now.
Yeah i feel the exact same way. I dont know why her meter gain us soooo bad when bellas is so high... I figured that maybe her having a projectile and bella not having one is the difference in the designers minds... But i looked at her meter gain for stingers and its also abysmal, even when charged.

I guess shes supposed to be a hard gainer, like storm... But i think thats really... Idk... Biased? Against her, or her design is just flawed... But perhaps im completely wrong. I just seem to be able to find so many inherent weaknesses in pw, than i find in my other 2 mains, peacock and double. But i digress, this new assist scaling patch will definitely help out a lot in that regard.
 
you can gain meter from mid and fullscreen pretty decently in neutral if you m/p nail xx 2flight as fast as you can. Worth noting at least if you're dying to get those 2 bars for a safe dhc
 
Her meter is fucked.

Probably the worst I've seen it was just a moment ago. I won the match as solo PW with about 1/4 of my life left. A Val/Para sitting on 5 meter while I'm at 3.75 meter... Am I missing something about how meter works? Should I really be down a bar and a quarter at the end of a match (I ended up breaking into 4 before the match ended... but they were sitting on 5 for ages so I don't know the exact difference).
 
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Painwheel players always complaining their character doesn't get enough
 
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DDB said:
Painwheel players always complaining their character doesn't get enough

Meanwhile, Annie players...
 
DDB said:
Painwheel players always complaining their character doesn't get enough

So working as intended?
 
DDB said:
Painwheel players always complaining their character doesn't get enough


Painwheel players having to deal with fireballs that are ass, armor that is ass, and flight that when compared to damn near any other flight, is ass.

Plus super slow pokes and terrible meter gain.

She ain't terrible, but... Whoa, she ain't great either.
 
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She is a weird contradiction.

Hey let's make her the flying character and give her the worst air priority in the game (which you don't see on the other air oriented characters like Val)... but fuck it, have shitty priority on the ground too.

Her armor is amazing in the handful of cases that it works (usually eating a projectile), but with one point and nigh everyone having multihit air moves, it is niche at best. I like it to absorb burst quite a bit, but is only vs mashers.

I think she is perfectly viable but at times it feels a bit like running uphill (especially since I'm too stubborn to use an assist).

Her meter though... It doesn't make sense to me why we would meter starve her. Her lvl 1 ground is weaker than most and her lvl 1 air is average. Her lvl 2 is gone in a flash unless you are almost dead, and her lvl 3 is more of a show off move to burn meter that you didn't need to use. Nothing about it makes me think "shit man... starve her". I was just curious why in some cases I am two meter behind.
 
It's not that her meter-gain is terrible, per say.

Her Deathcrawl builds too much for the damage it does. You're not doing that thing unless it's going to kill, and when it does, it builds 0.6 for the opponent. :|
 
Krackatoa said:
It's not that her meter-gain is terrible, per say.

Her Deathcrawl builds too much for the damage it does. You're not doing that thing unless it's going to kill, and when it does, it builds 0.6 for the opponent. :|

What about for basic moves?

PW is far less super oriented than other characters, so as you said, we are only using supers to kill.
 
Spencer said:
What about for basic moves?

PW is far less super oriented than other characters, so as you said, we are only using supers to kill.

I haven't really checked. She feels like she gets enough to get by if she keeps momentum, but if she's burning meter on Install, it falls off pretty quick.
 
i disagree.painwheel has a counter for everybody and the stuff she can do doesnt need meter.you could take like 1/10 health off a single wheelgrab and you could even reset with a normal grab and every single move she has covers ground, standing and arial characters.

let a valentine touch a painwheel at close range :/ and for cerebella...dont stay on the ground 24/7 that air grab she has will do some damage but you can also grab her from the air and yours beats hers because you can do combos or supers after it.
 
Baiko said:
i disagree.painwheel has a counter for everybody and the stuff she can do doesnt need meter.you could take like 1/10 health off a single wheelgrab and you could even reset with a normal grab and every single move she has covers ground, standing and arial characters.

let a valentine touch a painwheel at close range :/ and for cerebella...dont stay on the ground 24/7 that air grab she has will do some damage but you can also grab her from the air and yours beats hers because you can do combos or supers after it.

Solo? Or in a comp with assists?

I think it is pretty fair to say that she is generally considered weak solo (though viable). She has scary damage and reset potential. That said, she has difficulty getting in.

She is affected pretty strongly by good pushblocks. Her range is phenomenal, but her priority is slow enough that a Val that reds a j.mp can grab punish it from about half screen.

Bella has a lot more than air grab and is probably one of our hardest MU if she's played well.

Val is just a bitch to catch and can confirm from full screen if you fuck up.

Double seems pretty fair.

Peacock has been given me problems lately, but generally I'd say assistless she is weak.

Filia is a bitch to deal with. Her air priority owns yours. Her moves seem designed to shut down fly. She can confirm long distance. Her air mobility makes fly look pathetic.

Parasoul is our worst MU. If she knows your move list, you're gonna have a bad time. Her air priority and range is enough to piss you off for an entire match. This MU seems almost entirely dependent on baiting Parasoul to fuck up. You have no momentum here.

Squigs can be rough too. Her singing ball super of doom makes fly risky. j.hp beating out everything you have at range makes fly risky. Her damage potential is not to be taken too lightly. Once you get in on her though, your situation improves greatly.

MF isn't our hardest match up, but she's always good against everyone. I'd actually rate it more even than not once you learn some of her cheese. Also, Fiber upper isn't used as much as it should be. We can't do shit vs it on whiff, and it is a giant diagonal shield.
 
doesnt matter if solo or duet/trio.peacock's tricky though i have to abuse the j.HP armor cancels alot to get close to that one.
i'd try to make filia do that updo shit and 236HK or if i ran out of time to get her, id substitute with air super.
everytime i tried to do a fiber upper,i got my ass beat -_- so i stopped using fortune almost completely.

and for pushblocks, i havent tried them in training mode yet but it is probably possible to do some supers on pushblock.
i remember using filias roll on a pushblock once, there could be some free super potential if timed :/
parasoul's egrets are useless lol you can actually sit in the bike and not take damage from parasoul if you time the jump and since i use parasoul alot i know what they'll try to pull off most of the time.

But if it's a filia/peacock combo im in more trouble than usual.updo...well that move sucks ass anyways so no worries,it's the rolls that get me and that peacock assist is a bitch to dodge.
sometimes ill put bella as a shield and not even use her as a character unless my painwheel gets Ko'd.then id just mash all of bella's moves and hope for the best :/
 
Baiko said:
doesnt matter if solo or duet/trio.peacock's tricky though i have to abuse the j.HP armor cancels alot to get close to that one.
i'd try to make filia do that updo shit and 236HK or if i ran out of time to get her, id substitute with air super.
everytime i tried to do a fiber upper,i got my ass beat -_- so i stopped using fortune almost completely.

and for pushblocks, i havent tried them in training mode yet but it is probably possible to do some supers on pushblock.
i remember using filias roll on a pushblock once, there could be some free super potential if timed :/
parasoul's egrets are useless lol you can actually sit in the bike and not take damage from parasoul if you time the jump and since i use parasoul alot i know what they'll try to pull off most of the time.

But if it's a filia/peacock combo im in more trouble than usual.updo...well that move sucks ass anyways so no worries,it's the rolls that get me and that peacock assist is a bitch to dodge.
sometimes ill put bella as a shield and not even use her as a character unless my painwheel gets Ko'd.then id just mash all of bella's moves and hope for the best :/

Filia updo isn't a problem vs Filia. It is a problem for us as an assist. Filia is tough for us because her mobility is top tier, pushblock is half worthless against her, and most everything she has beats out most everything you have. Lately, her stupid airball(lk? the one that goes up) is a nightmare. @ElkyDori handles it alright, but man... it crushes me (@WingZero ).

What was beating your Fiber-Upper as PW? From just about everything I've tried, it is uncounterable as she can airdash and either escape or punish if you try and go in on it.

Pushblocks, yes you can super, but why would you? They are already blocking (thus the pushblock), so you are risking a full combo and -1 meter on a gamble. Not sure air super would hit either.

Parasoul's supers aside from Pillar are weak as hell vs PW (you can fly past bike, charged j.hp goes through tears). It is her normals that give her some nasty advantages in the match up.
 
Hello, Complainwheels!

PW gets the exact same amount of meter from attacks as other characters - you can test this yourself! Go into training mode, set meter to zero, then to normal, and save. Have PW hit with an attack like s.MP, then have your opponent hit with it. Both characters should end up with the same amount of meter. In fact, I just did this.
Not all specials grant the same amount of meter, Buer especially gives slightly less because of the ease of continuing off it. However, the probable culprit is that if you do long combos, the opponent gets more meter than you per hit by the end. Though this is also true of everyone...

For those of you saying her meter gain got nerfed - if she's above 1 bar she actually gets MORE meter from most of the attacks I changed now than she did before I changed it because most of the moves you normally used were giving the wrong amount of meter...in that it was too low. Only s.MK was too high. But I don't live in your world.

Death Crawl opponent meter gain is a decent point, lemme fix that.
Although it should be noted that her air super is one of the few supers that gives the opponent nearly zero meter for hitting with it.

It should also be noted that aside from characters that have always-on Hyper Armor (Mecha Zangief, etc) Painwheel is the only character to have ANY armor in the air that I can think of.

I'm also strongly beginning to believe that Dime_x is just nuts, because half the stuff he says is wrong...and the other half is off topic. :^)
 
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Mike_Z said:
Death Crawl opponent meter gain is a decent point, lemme fix that.
Argus? :P Also gives the opponent tonnes~ of meter, even if you just connect it raw

(For the record: I don't think either should be changed~)
 
@Mike_Z
All ive really said in this thread is that pw meter gain is shit and bella meter gain is ridic... In so many words. I can already see that you disagree with pw meter gain...whatever on that.

I DID notice that for example, parasouls meter gain is also pretty low, for what i would generally expect from her... However that seems in my mind to be balanced out by the fact that she has so much priority in neutral meaning that shes hard to hit, meaning that she generally will be out for a long time throwing fireballs and stuff... Gaining meter.

Also her fireballs give her a lot of meter gain in general.

Painwheels fireball meter gain being much harder to just spam, seems suspect. At least to me... But I'm not the designer. Painwheel also has priority troubles so, it can be hdr for her to gain ANY meter.

But i digress, that could be us... Maybe we all just need to be better at throwing 40 sets of stingers per match?

Idk. Whatever.


The reason i replied here is point 2 that i made in this thread. Bellas meter gain... Seems quite high. I've never formally made this complaint to you, since i know in my own head why her meter gain could be higher than average. But i wanted to know what is YOUR justification for her high meter gain?

I think its that she has no fireballs that she can gain meter from when at neutral. Which makes perfect sense, to me at least for her having high meter gain in combo.


...... Whiiiiiiiich brings me back to pw. With her having hard to spam fireballs in neutral, that means her neutral meter gain is bad... Which affects her overall meter gain.

So rather than saying that she needs a meter buff, which ive never said she needs, I'm actually asking the question:

What was your vision for her as far as meter is concerned? Are we painwheels using her wrong and should we lean on her stingers more at neutral to fill that neutral meter gain which as if now is terrible?


I ask cause i want to learn.

Also, i no longer care about her meter gain as anything more than an academic topic. Ive moved pw from first position on my team to 2nd position where almsot all of her weaknesses disappear and instead strengths come up.


Yes i wish i hadnt have had to move her to second position to get the most powerful version of her... But hey, I'm easy and can adjust.
 
@Dime_x
I didn't read your post. Sorry, but that's where we're at.
Except the last line, which as expected is a complaint about some choice being better some way than the way you'd prefer it.
Different characters do different things better or worse.

@IsaVulpes
Argus does more damage, puts your opponent at fullscreen, can be linked multiple times and can be made safe on block. Nah. (It also gives your opponent less meter than Death Crawl does right now.)
 
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@Mike_Z
Tldr

Ive taken your painwheel design and made it work, and no longer particularly care about pw meter gain as a topic.

As an aside i only really replied to ask a question that deosnt matter and because you've mentioned me a couple times lately, rudely. So i responded.
 
Mike_Z said:
Hello, Complainwheels!

This is funny because PW is always upset, and so are the players. =P

I don't know though, what else does PW really need now? She feels pretty amazing from where I'm standing. All I really wanted for her was better team synergy, which she now has. =)
 
View619 said:
This is funny because PW is always upset, and so are the players. =P

I don't know though, what else does PW really need now? She feels pretty amazing from where I'm standing. All I really wanted for her was better team synergy, which she now has. =)

Better solo synergy.
 
Spencer said:
Better solo synergy.

Well, we already know that Fortune is pretty much the only good choice solo, so no helping that. Don't play PW solo? Or be happy with your increased damage output, health, ability to invincible super on the ground or in the air as a reversal, armour, projectiles with flight cancels to start pressure from a distance, level 3 that shuts down projectile play, etc.
 
View619 said:
Well, we already know that Fortune is pretty much the only good choice solo, so no helping that. Don't play PW solo? Or be happy with your increased damage output, health, ability to invincible super on the ground or in the air as a reversal, armour, projectiles with flight cancels to start pressure from a distance, level 3 that shuts down projectile play, etc.

Hey, you asked.
 
View619 said:
This is funny because PW is always upset, and so are the players. =P

I don't know though, what else does PW really need now? She feels pretty amazing from where I'm standing. All I really wanted for her was better team synergy, which she now has. =)


I dont think she needs any buffs. Shes been buffed out the wazoo. I think the problem is that the pw players need to understand where she works best now and her best position on a team. Personally i think shes best at second, on an lk bomber team. This maximizes all of her strengths, and lowers her weaknesses CONSIDERABLY. The other second best place for her in my mind is at solo. The damage scales well for her, and she has actual invincible reversals to get her out of tight jams.

I think her WORST position is at the battery position on a trio. (The position that taluda now plays her at, and the position that i used to play her at) watching taluda seems to confirm this in my mind though it needn't have... I was already convinced. I think taluda makes it work by having a great fortune at second making up for when things go pear shaped for pw, and by simply being better than his opponents.
 
So, the upshot of this being mentioned:
Death Crawl gives the opponent roughly 33% of the meter it used to.
Argus gives the opponent roughly 60% of the meter it used to; two is still basically a full bar.

@Dime_x
And also yes, I was rude. Sorry, you probably didn't deserve as much of that.
 
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in about a year ill probably see threads like "nerf painwheel"
that will be a bad day.alittle funny, but bad.
 
Mike_Z said:
So, the upshot of this being mentioned:
Death Crawl gives the opponent roughly 33% of the meter it used to.
Argus gives the opponent roughly 60% of the meter it used to; two is still basically a full bar.

Darn. There goes the validity of my "Face Check Argus to Power My Car xx Install" strategy.

Haha. Gracias, Senior Z.
 
So what's a good character to run on point to build meter?
 
wiredgod said:
So what's a good character to run on point to build meter?

Peacock, Painwheel, Parasol. Bella is you have an assist that lets you convert off of grabs without needing to super.
 
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