SG2 Ideas/Speculation (Lab Zero Please Ignore)

[the_rpg_king]

I know SG2 was a big if, so I'm gonna say a cinematic story mode. Should I put more details on my SG2 idea?

 

[PetitDwarf]

Being SG's plot too ambiguous at the end (if you can say there is one end), it encourages fans to write their own versions of an end and, of course, of a second part.

In other words: go for it, King.

 

[digereedoodah]

For casual stuff, I would love to see a 1v1 multiplayer mode with a smaller undizzy meter. That way new people could have a chance to learn match-ups and really get comfortable with a single character before going against teams. There is a huge leap in difficulty between the AI and actual people, a lot of which is learning how to use/deal with assists. At least this way they can practice with actual humans.

Also, gimme dat Umbrella.

 

[the_rpg_king]

Welp, I'm just gonna go ahead and write more details about my cinematic story mode idea for SG2.

My cinematic story idea titled "A Nightmare Has Risen" is going to have fully animated cutscenes to make me feel like I'm watching a Skullgirls anime movie and it will have subtitles if the setting is set to On. My cinematic story mode idea will come in 4 acts and when characters meet up, the fight begins, like on SFV's cinematic story mode, as well as the games by NetherRealm Studios. It can be unlocked by clearing every character-specific stories for each character. I'll write what is it about in my spoiler to be safe.

Spoiler

A Nightmare Has Risen is a cinematic story mode about Marie gathering her powers of the nightmare from the the Medicis across the world. The situation has took a turn for the worse when Marie covers the world with pure darkness, leaving New Meridian on edge. The ultimate battle with Nightmare Marie 2 emerges.

 

[Magma442]

Animated cutscenes?

With what current budget? Even triple AAA games don't usually do that cause cost.

 

[HiroProtagonest]

triple AAA

AAAAAAAAA?

But yeah, animated cutscenes add a miniscule amount of enjoyment for me. I like the visual novel art format: we can see the backgrounds, we can see the expressions of the characters, we can see still images of what they're doing that get the point across. For the amount that it costs and the reduction of quality in single frames? Hell no.

Guilty Gear can do it because Guilty Gear uses character models. Well-made character models, but I still don't like them quite as much. I'd rather see the Skullgirls artists and animators focus on making sure that Skullgirls 2 is once again the fighting game with the best overall visual quality.

 

[PetitDwarf]

Even triple AAA games don't usually do that cause cost.

Well, yes. Even Street Fighter V lacks on animated cutscenes and that is a AAA game. But hey, Lab Zero Games has always listened to its fans' ideas (remember Eliza's victory pose, remember beta patches, remember Juju), and there's a lot of talented animators on the internet that could collaborate with guests animations. That would be awesome.

 

[ArgonBern]

Yyyyyeeeeeaah Juju was exactly the worst example you could come up with, being the reason L0 stopped taking suggestions on 99% of things.

 

[PetitDwarf]

Yyyyyeeeeeaah Juju was exactly the worst example you could come up with, being the reason L0 stopped taking suggestions on 99% of things.

I know, But that doesn't stop them to receive feedback from the community these days, you know. Juju could have been a great idea, though, but well... Stuff happened.

 

[Magma442]

1. Beta patches should always ALWAYS have fan influence with a competitive game.
2. Eliza's victory poses was a contest.
3. Juju was a shitshow.

 

[PetitDwarf]

1. Beta patches should always ALWAYS have fan influence with a competitive game.
2. Eliza's victory poses was a contest.
3. Juju was a shitshow.

1. Yes, they always should. But they don't. Skullgirls is the only fighting game I know that does it.
2. Still, not many developers allow players to put their ideas in their games, even though this was a contest.
3. Yeah, it really was. Bad example, sorry.

 

[HiroProtagonest]

Well, yes. Even Street Fighter V lacks on animated cutscenes and that is a AAA game. But hey, Lab Zero Games has always listened to its fans' ideas (remember Eliza's victory pose, remember beta patches, remember Juju), and there's a lot of talented animators on the internet that could collaborate with guests animations. That would be awesome.

Lab Zero: "Hey, we want people to submit drawings for what Eliza would wear in her victory poses"
Lab Zero: "Hey, we were willing to get the legal papers done to allow for a quote from one of our characters and a couple pictures of a character in our game, until the other guy fucked it up."

Lab Zero: "Hey, we're willing to pay a bunch of third-party animators and still take some of our own time to make these animated cutscenes because some fans wanted it."

Noooot the same thing.

 

[PetitDwarf]

Lab Zero: "Hey, we want people to submit drawings for what Eliza would wear in her victory poses"
Lab Zero: "Hey, we were willing to get the legal papers done to allow for a quote from one of our characters and a couple pictures of a character in our game, until the other guy fucked it up."

Lab Zero: "Hey, we're willing to pay a bunch of third-party animators and still take some of our own time to make these animated cutscenes because some fans wanted it."

Noooot the same thing.

*Sigh*

I can still dream, though

 

[Magma442]

1. Yes, they always should. But they don't. Skullgirls is the only fighting game I know that does it.

How many actual fighters do you play besides SG? Cause almost EVERY good fighter takes fan input to adjust characters, nerfs, and buffs...he'll not even fighters do this look at say overwatch.

 

[PetitDwarf]

How many actual fighters do you play besides SG? Cause almost EVERY good fighter takes fan input to adjust characters, nerfs, and buffs...he'll not even fighters do this look at say overwatch.

King Of Fighters and Mortal Kombat before. Maybe they're more open these days

 

[Aden]

At the time I remember LZ's stance on animated cutscenes being pretty firm, it's also why we don't have special intros.

I love special intros, but even then I understand putting that money into the game itself instead.

 

[PetitDwarf]

At the time I remember LZ's stance on animated cutscenes being pretty firm, it's also why we don't have special intros.

I love special intros, but even then I understand putting that money into the game itself instead.

I don't know why, but your comment gave me an idea.

How about cutscenes in After-Effects comics? You know, similar to MvC's. They could even use the 1900's style comics used to have those days -color palette, panel distribution...- so it keeps its dark-deco inspiration.

 

[HiroProtagonest]

At the time I remember LZ's stance on animated cutscenes being pretty firm, it's also why we don't have special intros.

I love special intros, but even then I understand putting that money into the game itself instead.

Plus, Guilty Gear Xrd can get away with all the animation more easily because they use models that they can simply manipulate. They're really good models that practically look like 2D animation without any of the perspective limitations, but Skullgirls' hand-drawn art still looks a little better.

I also like all the intros and victories being on the fighting screen. Makes it all feel flawless to me.

As for feedback... I wasn't around a few years ago, but I'm pretty sure Mike used to be even more stubborn about his vision for the game than he is now.

 

[Commodus]

If it's to be a sequel instead of an expansion, ideally it would change a lot but maintain certain core elements. Of course, this is all hypothetical as it's an indy game and they clearly have limited resources.
But, for my tastes, I'd like to see the game adopt a quasi-3D style to Tekken 2, everything would still play like a 2D fighter but the characters would have 3D models.

Beyond that, the gameplay would slow down. Fewer projectile and comedy attacks, more emphasis on strategy and planning. So, less Street Fighter and more Bushido Blade. I love the game, I really do, but so much goes on at any one time that I'm struggling to keep up. And too often it feels frustrating instead of fun. When I play a fighter, I don't want to button mash, I want to actually have time to plan and judge my opponent.

Oh, and maybe stop sexualizing the characters? SkullGirls has probably the best character designs in any fighter I've ever seen, and yet so many of them are marred by this pedestrian tendency to show off a little flesh. When you consider what a triumph of style, story and sound the game is - this one element of it comes across as jarringly sophomoric and makes me less likely to either play it in front of others or recommend the game to others.

 

[HiroProtagonest]

So you want... not Skullgirls.

 

[Commodus]

So you want... not Skullgirls.

Please don't be glib.
If you have an issue with what I wrote, explain why.

 

[HiroProtagonest]

Well that's what you're asking for. To actually address what you just said:
Skullgirls has plenty of strategy in its fast-paced gameplay. Look at Starcraft. Starcraft has even harsher input requirements and less knowledge of what the opponent is doing, but at the top level players still make enough mistakes that it's meaningfully strategic and not just based entirely on the opening gambit. And look, I get it. I've stopped playing Starcraft because the fundamentals are entirely input skill and strategy doesn't matter until after those basics. But Starcraft is actually pretty good as a spectator sport, 'cause pros can make crazy things happen.

Skullgirls already does a lot to make inputs much easier. Button dashing, leniency on the quarter-circle motion, no double-quarter-circle supers, things like that. Slowing it down... makes a completely different style of game. Just because Skullgirls isn't the speed for you, doesn't give it the full right to exist and others are clearly enjoying it, including myself. And I'm not even adjusted to it. When I go online and get constantly hit by mixups, I don't think "this game is too fast for real strategy." I think "I need to get my head in the game so I can predict what they'll do." That's a lot of the skill of playing the game. Not every multiplayer game has to be tournament competitive, but Skullgirls sure is. And that means it's going to have a broad learning curve.

As for the sexuality. You know what I realized about all the short skirts? It has to be a cultural thing. It has to be part of Canopy Kingdom's society, because that actually makes sense. And that makes it subtle and clever social commentary; fashion changes, as do ideas of what's shameless and modest. Modern sensibilities need not apply, and yet it's close enough to reality that it's not just a big "fuck you for not getting my art." As for jiggle physics, eh, that's not exactly new in games, including fighting games, and a lot of the boobs are covered, we're not talking Warcraft armor. For what's positive about it, it's funny. It's funny to watch Parasoul's boobs go up and down deliberately with her stance, or to be reminded that Filia does have some fat around the thighs. I still have some quibbles with Valentine and Ms. Fortune, but those are relative; I still think Val is a straight-up improvement to Mai from KoF, and Ms. Fortune is also the first character I picked out purely on "cool design" when I saw her idle animation.

I also prefer the 2D animation over 3D, I don't want Tekken-style graphics. Guilty Gear Xrd's style could work, but that's made to look 2D and is used as a shortcut to allow cool entrance/victory/superflash cutscenes. If they don't want loads and loads of cutscenes, it'll cost more for a similar result.

 

[ArgonBern]

Yeah let's fire more than half of the team because someone doesn't like 2D and how characters are portrayed.

 

[Commodus]

Yeah let's fire more than half of the team because someone doesn't like 2D and how characters are portrayed.

Or, and this is just a crazy idea, you could NOT insult me?

 

[Magma442]

Weren't you that guy on the Reddit who wanted SG to slow down a lot and everyone basically said everything you pitched was dumb?

 

[Commodus]

Weren't you that guy on the Reddit who wanted SG to slow down a lot and everyone basically said everything you pitched was dumb?

Oh, you mean the guy who made a reasonable point? Who didn't insult anyone whatsoever? And went out of his way to be civil with those who disagreed? Is that the person you're talking about? Is that your justification for insulting me because we disagree about a video game?

 

[Ninja]

guys, stop. if you're going to be mean and nasty with eachother take it to the pms.

this a place for ideas on a possible SG2.

he has as much right to type what he feels SG should take on with a sequel as the rest of us do.

 

[Magma442]

Just cause we're disagreeing with a dumb idea doesn't mean we're disagreeing with you do. Calm the hell down dude.

I don't want to change anything major to the core of the game that would alienate the entire audience of this game. A big gameplay shift would be terrible.

Also on sexuality, who cares. I like the way every character is designed. And I never got where the fear of jiggles, boobs, and sexiness comes from. So we should change the entire desgin of all characters into something boring cause you don't like the way a guy made his characters? Am I getting that right?

 

[Commodus]

Also on sexuality, who cares. I like the way every character is designed. And I never got where the fear of jiggles, boobs, and sexiness comes from. So we should change the entire desgin of all characters into something boring cause you don't like the way a guy made his characters? Am I getting that right?

Okay, here's the thing. SkullGirls has incredibly impressive characters. Whereas Street Fighter relies on bizarre ethnic stereotypes and Tekken gives us "bland stubbly guy" or "bland white girl who thinks she's Japanese", SkullGirls took female characters - so often objectified - and made them all completely unique, with so many diverse alliances and motivations and quirks.
Yet, despite this, so many of them still seem completely sexualised. With revealing outfits, and enlarged breasts. Frankly, the game is better than that. It's the kind of infantile nonsense I'd expect from Dead or Alive, not a game that actually gives a damn about characterization and tone.

 

[Ninja]

if you feel like that, then talk to Alex Ahad about the design of the characters.

He's usually open for chats on Twitter @ o_8

 

[Commodus]

if you feel like that, then talk to Alex Ahad about the design of the characters.

He's usually open for chats on Twitter @ o_8

That would be a trifle rude, don't you think? To seek someone out and badger them about something they created because it doesn't conform to your values? I'm giving my opinion here, because it's an open forum, but trying to wag my finger in someone's face with zero provocation is a completely different matter.

 

[ArgonBern]

That would be a trifle rude, don't you think? To seek someone out and badger them about something they created because it doesn't conform to your values? I'm giving my opinion here, because it's an open forum, but trying to wag my finger in someone's face with zero provocation is a completely different matter.

[trying to wag finger in someone's face with zero provocation]

 

[Fumako]

Just cause we're disagreeing with a dumb idea doesn't mean we're disagreeing with you do. Calm the hell down dude.

I agree with what ya'll saying against him but saying that he should "Calm the hell down dude." isn't really applicable here.
Sorry Argon, Magma; HiroProtagonest put up a very civil and helpful post but you two are pretty much just... bullying him. :/

 

[josshu]

Okay, here's the thing. SkullGirls has incredibly impressive characters. Whereas Street Fighter relies on bizarre ethnic stereotypes and Tekken gives us "bland stubbly guy" or "bland white girl who thinks she's Japanese", SkullGirls took female characters - so often objectified - and made them all completely unique, with so many diverse alliances and motivations and quirks.
Yet, despite this, so many of them still seem completely sexualised. With revealing outfits, and enlarged breasts. Frankly, the game is better than that. It's the kind of infantile nonsense I'd expect from Dead or Alive, not a game that actually gives a damn about characterization and tone.

Sexualizing a character does not undo their characterization, nor does it objectify them outright. Objectification literally means reducing a person to the status of an object, and sexualization is often coupled with that because it threatens to reduce a character to a sexual object. If a character's sexiness is the only thing that you focus on it ends up creating that effect, that this character only exists for their sexual aspects. By your own admission, the characters in Skullgirls are not objectified and I agree. The characters here have more going for them than simply their sexulaity. Someone like Valentine has brutality, intellect, and a hidden humanity to her.

Ultimately the character's sexuality is simply a part of who she is, instead of being ALL of who she is. Sex and sexuality aren't negative things, and they aren't infantile nonsense. It's juvenile to become obsessed with those things, instead of accepting them as a part of the world, and in this case, a part of these characters. Skullgirls is not obsessed with those things, which is why the characters aren't objectified when they're sexualized or when you're reminded that they are sexy. It's why you get the feeling that Valentine doesn't exist for your gratification, but rather dresses the way she does for her own satisfaction.

 

[ArgonBern]

I agree with what ya'll saying against him but saying that he should "Calm the hell down dude." isn't really applicable here.
Sorry Argon, Magma; HiroProtagonest put up a very civil and helpful post but you two are pretty much just... bullying him. :/

Alright, sorry. I got carried away.

 

[Ninja]

That would be a trifle rude, don't you think? To seek someone out and badger them about something they created because it doesn't conform to your values? I'm giving my opinion here, because it's an open forum, but trying to wag my finger in someone's face with zero provocation is a completely different matter.

Dude, I said he's open to chats and stuff like this. You're 100% free to tell him how you feel about all of this. It's all cool. So don't think you're confined to just to the community forums.

 

[ArgonBern]

That's all fine, but what would be rude is if he got upset over it and told him or implied to change that just because of his opinion.

 

[Commodus]

That's all fine, but what would be rude is if he got upset over it and told him or implied to change that just because of his opinion.

Unsolicited critique, in general, seems very impolite to me. Just because social media makes it possible to bombard creators with every little grievance we have, it doesn't make it right to do so.

 

[Magma442]

As thirsty and gross as this sound but I like how the characters are sexy. From my point as an artist I like drawing sexy characters. They're fun. The reason I like the sexiness of SG is because it as flair and (joke aside) "bounce." To the designs. The sexyness helps the style a lot.

Sorry for seeming like a bully.

 

[cloudKing211]

This thread: wew lad

Reminder, a 2d depiction of a woman having big breasts is not sexualization. There are real women with them, and if alex wants to draw a character with them thats perfectly fine.

Valentines over the top outfit is for due to her job and personality. I hate to say this but lore wins here

Time to afk again