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Skullgirls Match Critique

Duckator

Duckator

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Back in the SDE days I made a couple of videos where I broke down match videos in an attempt to help players improve. This didn't work out so well because not many people could record at the time so there weren't many videos to go over.

Now that the game is done and it's much easier to record things, I want to start this up again. If you are interested in having me go over a match of yours please post a link to a video you'd like me to review here in this thread. I've already done one video here. Give it a watch so you'll know what to expect.

The only restrictions are it cannot be more than 5 games, so if you link a ft20 set pick 5 of those games you'd like me to look at, and you have to be the person playing in the video. I would prefer it if I'm not the person you're playing against and tournament footage, online or otherwise, would be nice too but those aren't necessary.

FAQ:
Do you still do these?
-Yes.
 
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I will totally be taking advantage of this later.
 
I'm the scrubby Beo/Band.
 
I'll definitely keep this in mind for later
 
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I love these videos. Your marker is an inspiration to all.
 
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Can you check out The first 5 games of this set with SonicFox
would like to see if there are any bad habits you would like to address
 
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I think "Never Do Wake Up Throw" could stand to be its own video. I see people doing that all the time.
 
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Thanks a lot. I didnt really notice how bad my spacing was. While I was trying to hit the assist in the earlier matches the later matches was just me with my bad spacing, so I just have to work harder on that. I dont think the fact that i beat you at summerjam was relevant. I still your opinion in high regard and any perspective other than my own can always help
 
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Something worth noting for the DHC Sage does around 7:50. Monster doesn't have active frames the instant it gets triggered, it still has like 4f of startup before you get eaten. It's possible to EKG Flatliner through it. However I'm trying to recreate the situation that happened in the match (Valentine is in the air facing the opposite direction, Sage whiffs Bomber and cancels to Monster DHC Fireball), and sometimes the monster doesn't trigger until EKG Flatliner does its second pass, and I'm not sure why??? So you CAN beat this DHC with a reaction Flatliner but I'm not exactly sure why it works sometimes and not others, and ultimately it's probably best not to risk it.
 
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Please do Grand Finals. I have the same problems I did in Winner's Finals, but I at least slightly adjusted as well. Just not well enough.
 
Duckator said:
@Dhoppler It's out
Would've had this out a few days ago but youtube was not letting me upload it for some reason.
Thank you so much. I'll watch it tonight after the tournament and apply everything.

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I mentioned this to some people already but i want to post it here: Duck does a lot of disparaging the BB/Peacock team order because he thinks that peacock/band is a much better order, for reasons he goes into (and most of which are probably obvious). I don't dispute that peacock/BB is a better order on paper but I think that there are definitely good reasons to run it BB point as long as you play it right. This might be because I have talked to peanuts about his team a lot but I think teams that have the goal of switching order to a more optimal order mid-match, but starting in a different order to make the beginning of the game easier, are more effective than people credit and it's kind of unexplored territory. However, if you want to run this order you have to realize that the only reason to run this order is to start peacock playing in a position that's already favorable to her. Usually this will be SSJ -> lenny, which I don't know if you ever successfully did, but you need to recognize other scenarios where it would be effective to change order. BB getting a hard knockdown into peacock tag will also let you start playing peacock at fullscreen where she wants to be, as will tagging after killing with SSJ. IMO if I had to pick one thing you did that was the biggest mistake of the whole (post-fukua) set, it would be when you killed double in game 3 and left BB in. That was the PERFECT chance to tag, you didn't do it, big band got hit and even though he didn't die you AC'd in peacock and couldn't call BB because he was too low. I do agree with duck that if peacock is forced to come in without big band then the game is all but over, so if you want to play bb point order (which again, I think is perfectly good) you have to recognize when good times are to start peacock going, and especially be looking for points to do the SSJ into lenny dhc.

(side note: duck talked about squigly being able to SBO BB for free but SBO has no hitstop so unless she sings you can counter super, you got hit out of cymbals in that game 3 and you could have timpani'd on reaction to make it trade and not been in nearly as bad of a position)
 
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Duckator said:
@Dhoppler It's out
Would've had this out a few days ago but youtube was not letting me upload it for some reason.
This video taught me that alpha counter Beat Extend can punish DHCs into Squigly Battle Opera. I've tried that before and came to the conclusion that it doesn't work, but it looks like I was just doing it too late. Now that I know the timing I was able to get it in training mode without much trouble. Got a special surprise for Tommer the next time I play him (no one tag him)

e: Oh yeah @Dhoppler although I think Big Band/Peacock can be a viable team if it's played correctly (which you don't, but I've already gone over that in your training thread), I think you should at least try out Peacock/Big Band to see if you like that order better. I played that duo for a long time and I feel it's a solid team.
 
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I think dhoppler should switch to painwheel/val.
 
Peacock big band is an order I play sometimes. I just like opening better with big band peacock. I just need to remember to tag in peacock when I'm supposed to.

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Dhoppler said:
Peacock big band is an order I play sometimes. I just like opening better with big band peacock. I just need to remember to tag in peacock when I'm supposed to.

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That's fair. Not liking Peacock at round start is one of the reasons I play my current team, and I think Duck kinda downplays Double's options vs Peacock at round start. Just, again, if you are gonna play the team you have to prioritize getting Peacock in.

I think Duck mentioned hard knockdown at one point... since Big Band's hard knockdowns are special moves, and therefore are not cancellable into tags, you're kind of negative if you do something like H Brass then tag to Peacock. You are safe, though, and it's meterless, so it's another option you have.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
I think Duck mentioned hard knockdown at one point... since Big Band's hard knockdowns are special moves, and therefore are not cancellable into tags, you're kind of negative if you do something like H Brass then tag to Peacock. You are safe, though, and it's meterless, so it's another option you have.

I actually just tested this because hard knockdown into tag seemed like the obvious way to get peacock in if you didn't have 2 bars and I didn't know it was minus. Its pretty hard to tell exact numbers from the ingame frame data but I tested having the dummy do c.lk c.mk s.hk H brass, tag, then jump, while I just held up after the knockdown, and both me and peacock dummy jumped at almost the exact same time. So I would say for all intents and purposes H brass into tag is neutral.
 
Pickles said:
I actually just tested this because hard knockdown into tag seemed like the obvious way to get peacock in if you didn't have 2 bars and I didn't know it was minus. Its pretty hard to tell exact numbers from the ingame frame data but I tested having the dummy do c.lk c.mk s.hk H brass, tag, then jump, while I just held up after the knockdown, and both me and peacock dummy jumped at almost the exact same time. So I would say for all intents and purposes H brass into tag is neutral.
It's definitely not Double s.HP xx tag tho. That shit is so plus I can have Peacock put two projectiles on the screen before you even get up.
 
Wouldn't cymbal clash -> brass be plus?

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Dhoppler said:
Wouldn't cymbal clash -> brass be plus?

shouldn't matter what you do into brass since the time between when brass hits them and when you have recovered to tag should be the same whatever the combo into brass is. That said I think someone told me that the higher your opponent is in the air when brass hits them the more plus you are (maybe that's what you mean?) so idk, you can probably make it a little more plus but i think more or less you will recover from the tag at about the same time they get up. Which is still good IMO since you're fullscreen.
 
Height does affect your advantage after brass but not a train. At the correct height brass is more advantageous than a train but less so otherwise. With that in mind brass advantage is height dependant.

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I'll try it

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Ok. I've had time to test it.

Cr.hp -> tag is neutral or maybe +/-1.
Brass, tag is neutral but you're full screen.
Cymbal Clash, Brass, tag is plus enough to get 2 bombs on screen. This should be my go to meterless option.


Alpha countering car -> SBO can be done successfully with 2 different timings.
The first is to hit it before the opera becomes active. This one is pretty strict but not too hard.
The second is to counter the very first hit the moment you block it before the 2nd hit becomes active. This is actually even easier and requires much less practice. If you have the life to take the chip then this is the more surefire option.
 
Dhoppler said:
Brass, tag is neutral but you're full screen.
Cymbal Clash, Brass, tag is plus enough to get 2 bombs on screen. This should be my go to meterless option..
Doing Cymbal Clash into Brass is THAT much more plus than raw Brass? How?
 
It's exactly as cloudking said.

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That's crazzzzzzzzy I really need to take that into training mode cause I didn't know of a good way to switch from Big Band to Peacock without meter. I'm getting so much good tech from the forums this week it's actually out of control
 
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It's the same concept as setting up his oki.

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Hello, I'll post some videos for anyone who wants to critique to take a look at



Squigly and Bella vs Val gives me a really hard time. I feel I can't get in, sing is pretty much useless and I feel I have so few chances the ones that I do get I just let them slip. I feel I can only get something started if I get a knockdown off bella tag.


Was dropping a lot of my stuff and trying out stuff to see what worked but still bad play on my part.
I'm really scared to pressure on knock down because I think they are going to reversal so they end up just jumping away especially out of the corner. I think in one instance I have them in the corner and once I see them blocking I just back off full screen.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
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In the matchup vs Outlawspike, I noticed you got hit by things that generally you need to be careful of. He hit/grabbed you alot after mistiming pushblocks, such as j.mp that wasnt fastfalled, and although you had copter, he seemed to invade the space up and in front of squigly very often. Copter has a good hitbox that Val cant compete with except up close and during early startup, so knowing he approaches that way most of the time can help you setup countermeasures. and you can get charge during the blockstun, be mindful and wary of land cancels though.
He hit you with fullscreen bypass, which happens sometimes when you dont play against somewhat turtle-y vals. Just have to remember that she has it, and be careful of fullscreen charging.

When he is on the offensive, going for chicken block + copter is a decent idea, bc it has the potential to either hit him or keep him in one place. Just be wary of him airthrowing, so keep that in mind

Edit: It looked like you let him in more times that he made it in imo is all.
 
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Yeah I'm weary of throwing out copter because I know val can beat it at times that feel random and I didn't want to get happy birthdayed, also him just throwing shurikens beats copter as well so he's kinda dissuaded me from calling it. Also I'm not sure how to approach Val's in general. My only thing is I can beat j.hk if they are jumping forward with it but they usually jump back and out space my j.lk.
 
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