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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Grangach said:
High damage scaling means moves degrade faster right?
Yes.

Right now, IIRC is 100, 100, 100, then after that everything decays to 87.5% of the previous hit until the minimum.

I'd say 80, to a minimum of 15 for weak hits, 25 for hits above 1k base.
 
Only change I would make to the combo system is bringing back 350 undizzy. I still think MDE combos felt the best
 
I dont like shorter combos. Ggxrd has been pissing me off with its shorter girly man combos. I suggest that game if you like short combos... Or streetfighter.

Or maybe mike can make an alternative sg version that has 10 undizzy limit and people can play that.
 
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Dime_x said:
I dont like shorter combos. Ggxrd has been pissing me off with its shorter girly man combos. I suggest that game if you like short combos... Or streetfighter.

Or maybe mike can make an alternative sg version that has 10 undizzy limit and people can play that.
Ad hominem time?

Honestly, resets have always been the focus of this game in spite of its mechanics.
 
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Combos are pretty good right now, CHs feel rewarding and the way undizzy decays and influences something other than combos feels very well balanced.

I don't see any reason to change combos now. If anything, I'd rather see damage nerfs.
 
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Instead of more health, yeah I'd rather revise damage across the board almost. Scaling is an easier solution, even if it's not optimal.
 
Dime_x said:
I dont like shorter combos. Ggxrd has been pissing me off with its shorter girly man combos. I suggest that game if you like short combos... Or streetfighter.

Or maybe mike can make an alternative sg version that has 10 undizzy limit and people can play that.

If you want to play a single player combo game you could always play a character action game like bayonetta.

Maybe I should go play a different game if that's how you're going to talk to me.
 
Aint nothing single player about sg combos when i can viably reset just about anywhere, and you need to be on your toes to be able to react and keep me honest about it.
 
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or you could just cash out the damage every time and keep it boring, that's what the pros do.
 
I see sage and soncifox doing early resets all the time. I do early resets all the time, early resets are very very good in this game because they make all of your options more scary than max undizzy resets.

At the end of the day against an accomplished sg player with experience, you will need both to keep the opponent guessing.
 
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All that means is that we end up with more combo filler that does even less damage while being equally borring as before.
 
Jason said:
All that means is that we end up with more combo filler that does even less damage while being equally borring as before.
So equally boring, less effective...

Where do I sign?
 
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guitalex2007 said:
Honestly, resets have always been the focus of this game in spite of its mechanics.
Do you think this even for Vanilla and SDE? I know resets were still a valid option there, to deny your opponent meter, but it seems silly to call it the focus of the game to me.

Also, I don't see how the effectiveness of quick resets is a point in favor for long combos being an option. That means when a long combo does happens its pretty drastically different pacing from the game otherwise. You'd have dynamic, on your toes gameplay for the first part of a character's life bar, and then 20 seconds of long combo at the end to finish them off. Kinda of a similar issue with Marvel 3, you have some cool neutral and spacing followed by 45 seconds of ToD: The Movie. Why not have cool reset based gameplay for even longer?
 
Side observation: More health per character has made for a beefier, more substantial Arcade Mode. Which I rather like.
 
xaqwais said:
Do you think this even for Vanilla and SDE? I know resets were still a valid option there, to deny your opponent meter, but it seems silly to call it the focus of the game to me.

Also, I don't see how the effectiveness of quick resets is a point in favor for long combos being an option. That means when a long combo does happens its pretty drastically different pacing from the game otherwise. You'd have dynamic, on your toes gameplay for the first part of a character's life bar, and then 20 seconds of long combo at the end to finish them off. Kinda of a similar issue with Marvel 3, you have some cool neutral and spacing followed by 45 seconds of ToD: The Movie. Why not have cool reset based gameplay for even longer?
Because combos do too much damage? If the scaling was more harsh you'd have more resets before that final combo.
 
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Stuff said:
    • When the opponent has any amount of Drama, the super flash from level 1 Blockbusters will no longer force hit stop on the defending character ... Level 3 and above Blockbusters are not affected by this change.

5kgr0ye.gif
 
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I don't understand why damage would need nerfing now. Every character with slightly-too-much-damage has already gotten their damaged nerfed to be in line with most other characters, and lots of char specific tools that are too good at getting conversions scale damage more as well now. The damage is pretty good in SG right now, because making a mistake or making a wrong read results in you eating a fair chunk of damage into potentially even more damage into potentially you lose.

I personally like it when every opportunity to get damage means something - Has anyone ever played a fighting game with Way Too Much Fucking Health before? Like, DoA with maximum life settings, or a DBZ Budokai game with like 20 life bars? Or playing Melee on Hyrule temple? Or Brawl at all? All that happens is that each individual read means exceptionally little, and advantage doesn't mean much at all since very little reward is gained from playing aggressively well.

Combo length I wouldn't mind shortening as long as the average damage for a full BNB was the same, but the long-ish-but-not-too-long combos in Skullgirls right now allows for a lot of creativity and flexibility with reset points, with max-undizzy resets fulfilling the desire of players who want to see multiple short resets. I have won games where I got the first hit and completely reset someone to death but by the end of it they died with like 1000 undizzy on their character or something since every reset was past undizzy.
 
i think the combo length right now is pretty good. therres some super optimised stuff that goes on a little longer than i would like but theres no way that i think 350 undizzy or longer combos would be good for this game in the slightest. this years evo was waaaay more interesting to watch than 2013. there was no hype for me in the slightest even being in the crowd with people yelling "touch of death" whenever someone got a hit.

why would you bother to reset when you can just 1 touch kill everything?
 
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guitalex2007 said:
Because combos do too much damage? If the scaling was more harsh you'd have more resets before that final combo.
Second paragraph was more of a response to Dime, who wants longer combos as an option even though he acknowledges that resets are usually the best thing to go for and is a strong point for Skullgirls.

I do agree with you that changes to scaling could be good to push more players to reset early and often. I just wanted to know if you think Vanilla and SDE were reset based, haha.
 
xaqwais said:
Second paragraph was more of a response to Dime, who wants longer combos as an option even though he acknowledges that resets are usually the best thing to go for and is a strong point for Skullgirls.

I do agree with you that changes to scaling could be good to push more players to reset early and often. I just wanted to know if you think Vanilla and SDE were reset based, haha.
Oh no they were not. Lol

But that wasn't on purpose.
 
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How does scaling degrade right now? I'm not familiar with that at all to be honest.
 
i think that the fact that people cant seem to agree whether combos and damage should be changed is a good sign that the game is in a pretty good place right now. in the same way that people cant seem to agree where characters should be placed in tier lists is a good sign of things being reasonably balanced.

if there were to be any changes made i think they would have to be really slight ones. and i mean REALLY slight ones. the extra 1200 health i think is a good example of the right kinds of changes. if people were wanting to shorten combos too perhaps you could lower undizzy by 20 or something. personally i think they are fine as is though.
 
More onto the topic of combo length:

I'm 100% fine with where the length of combos are at. That said, I think it is unnecessary. They provide a meaningless barrier to new players while adding virtually nothing to better players except perhaps padding to make resets a little harder to detect.

I, unlike Dime, am really enjoying the smaller, more meaningful combos in both Xrd and to a lesser extent P4U. But the combos are relatively core to SGs gameplay at this point, and I can't see that going anywhere.
 
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Keep in mind, if you mess with the damage scaling you could end up heavily nerfing Double, Big Band and Painwheel because their best jump-ins are multi-hit.
 
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Jason said:
All that means is that we end up with more combo filler that does even less damage while being equally borring as before.

That has nothing to do with scaling and everything to do with how little the game is balanced around neutral. I'd like a little less time spent in combo and a little more time in footsies.
 
Anyone know what prompted the health buff? I'm not complaining I like the change (don't really notice it ever) but don't understand why it's there.
 
- Add[ed] 1200 health to everyone's lifebar (at 1.0, multiplied by the normal ratios for solos/duos). Lets you live through one more hard hit, gives you a little bit more of a chance vs some optimized junk.
 
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Mr. X said:
Can the first hit do 110% or 120% damage to make stray hits scarier?

Everything else unchanged.

I held back from saying something like this, but I actually think it is a good idea. I would go slightly further though. I would say maybe 125% for first hits and if necessary slightly slightly tighter scaling. Would make starters matter even more than they do right now which I think is a good thing AND make stray hits more important over the course of a game.
 
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Ahem.
Counter Hit LNLH.
Counter Hit Brass H xx SSJ.

+ Bonus % damage from already landing a counter hit.
+ 100 more Undizzy for the combo.

You will be dead.
 
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Don't get called out by call out moves?
 
I don't now... I think up'ing damage on a starter would be disastrous.

A fair number of the cast can confirm off of just about every stray hit anyway, do we really need to reward it further?

Hell, if anything I actually like the Xrd, BB, P4A approach and up'ing scaling on fast lights to less reward full CH combos for mashing out of pressure.
 
Mr. X said:
Can the first hit do 110% or 120% damage to make stray hits scarier?

Everything else unchanged.
Tomo009 said:
I held back from saying something like this, but I actually think it is a good idea. I would go slightly further though. I would say maybe 125% for first hits and if necessary slightly slightly tighter scaling. Would make starters matter even more than they do right now which I think is a good thing AND make stray hits more important over the course of a game.

If starters actually mattered it would make neutral a lot more interesting. Have light attacks scale really heavily and heavies not as much. As for confirming off of any old stray hit, that's a problem with individual move properties.
 
I dont even like the scaling on throws, not to mention things i find to be exceptionally redundant such as gg/bb style damage proration.
 
You know I would kill for a TvC style burst system.
 
Dime_x said:
I dont even like the scaling on throws, not to mention things i find to be exceptionally redundant such as gg/bb style damage proration.
What are they redundant with? It means you get more damage from harder reads/good setups, less damage from lesser/safer ones.
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope.

the hell is wrong with you guys?
This. Sick of the fucking system changes, and system change suggestions. The game is fine as is.

Everyone just stop.

(Also, this is the beta discussion thread, how is this discussing the beta changes at all?)
 
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