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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

zeknife said:
I bet you'd like it if SOID prevented you from jumping back whenever it's nearby

I know why it happens; it just doesn't feel good.

What helps beat Peacock spam? Jumping. What beats jumping? Peacock spam. Cymbal feels bad for another reason. Namely it is the one overhead in the game that you can't chickenblock.

I also know it won't change, as I'm pretty sure Mike has already commented on it. Doesn't make me love it. I just have it filed under "it is what it is" and suck it up.
 
No cymbal change pls. Its overhead properties gives it legit guilty gear airdash overhead/low mixups.
 
zeknife said:
Anyway for that bella j.hp idea I proposed, I simply meant that instant j.hp would hit mid and glide j.hp would still be an overhead
So the only thing affected is that silly faster than half the cast instant overhead and you can still do cool delayed high/fall low mixups and catch people sleeping with j.mp glide j.hp whatever
Everything I said before still applies. But, to add to that:

How fast you can overhead people (counting standing normals, since they can be done at the same place jump attacks can be)
Eliza's IAD j.hp = 32f (but can be left/right ambiguous)
Valentine's IAD j.hp =31f (but can be left/right ambiguous)
Painwheel's fly j.lk = 24f
Squigly's s+f.hp = 22f
Peacock's IAD j.lp = 22f
Parasoul's s+f.lp = 20f
Bella's instant j.hp = 19f
EDIT Per RemiKz: Eliza's IAD j.lk = 19f
Fortune's IAD j.lp = 16f
Filia's IAD j.lk = 17f (I think this one's left/right ambiguous too, but am not sure)
Big Band's instant j.mk = 15f
Edit Per Isa: Valentine's backdash-airdash j.lp = 15f
EDIT Per Icky: Big Band's j.lk = 11f (Fuzzy Guard)
Squigly's j.lp (character specific?) = 11f (Fuzzy Guard)

Double Tiger Knee Barrel = starts in 16f, but there's a delay before it hits

I'm not saying it's garbage, but it's not the best. It barely edges out most of the moves it's faster than. And even characters with slower overheads can be combined with assist and actually use the delay to make it more difficult to guess correctly.

If you're gonna start removing 19f mixups from the game, why not make all moves done within 20 frames of rising mid, and make all moves that look ambiguous not with some crossup protection. Oh, and those pesky low/grab resets are a bother, let's make you be able to tech while crouching while also adding 10-15f to the grab tech window
 
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how many of those are instant overheads vs people crouching who aren't big band, double, eliza
 
dekillsage said:
how many of those are instant overheads vs people crouching who aren't big band, double, eliza
Big band's j.lk instant overhead works against everyone crouching but I think val and fukua/filia ( can't remember exactly who) but you can fuzzy guard anyone with it
 
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I should clarify, on all short characters you only get one hit of his j.lk when instant overheading, but it is quite easy to then link a j.mk and continue a combo. Unless things have changed since June which was when I wa slast playing big band
 
I'm pretty sure some of the characters above Cerebella can do faster overheads. I don't really think 19f would be too good outside of some online matches.
 
dekillsage said:
how many of those are instant overheads vs people crouching who aren't big band, double, eliza
Now, I'm not going to sit here and test everyone's overhead against every character, but all of those overheads were done to dummy Painwheel. Squigly's overhead only hit Eliza/Big Band/one other character who I'm forgetting, but like Icky said fuzzy stuff it to anyone. Oh, and Big Band's j.mk was done to Parasoul. Also, counting fuzzy setup things, everyone gets a lot more tools.
 
Inb4Ishootmyselfinthefoot but isn't bella's j.2MP a faster overhead anyway.

Also @ zid: Eliza IAD j.LK is way faster than j.HP.
 
RemiKz said:
Inb4Ishootmyselfinthefoot but isn't bella's j.2MP a faster overhead anyway.

Also @ zid: Eliza IAD j.LK is way faster than j.HP.
Oh yeah, I forgot she could do that. That's, what, 19f?
 
Mike_Z said:
Not sure what determines "after parry" to you, but that's not an easy thing to account for.
And anyway, in preliminary testing 2 sound stuns adds at minimum another 1k to any combo just by giving you another H Beat Extend later; I can get 11k midstage (and around 13.4k in the corner for 2 bars) without even trying. No sir.

Would a reasonable way of handling this be to allow +1 Sound Stun on counter-hit? Since parries universally go into counter-hit combos this allows Beat Extend confirms to not cripple follow-ups.
 
Broken Loose said:
Would a reasonable way of handling this be to allow +1 Sound Stun on counter-hit? Since parries universally go into counter-hit combos this allows Beat Extend confirms to not cripple follow-ups.
Do you mean "+1 sound stun on counter hit" or "Ignore counter hit sound stun"? Cause those are two very different suggestions.
 
Zidiane said:
Do you mean "+1 sound stun on counter hit" or "Ignore counter hit sound stun"? Cause those are two very different suggestions.
The second one (ignore SS restrictions for a move that CHs) is probably better, but the first (allow an extra SS after CH) is probably easier to implement.
 
First would probably be easier, but he already mentioned it was too much damage.
Mike_Z said:
Not sure what determines "after parry" to you, but that's not an easy thing to account for.
And anyway, in preliminary testing 2 sound stuns adds at minimum another 1k to any combo just by giving you another H Beat Extend later; I can get 11k midstage (and around 13.4k in the corner for 2 bars) without even trying. No sir.
But maybe if multiple parries in a row were performed or some other restriction. That would dissuade people from doing the same jump in moves (assuming the BB player has shown that he can easily parry it) and encourage more parrying. The damage seems somewhat justified in that case. Or instead of sound stun, maybe you get the taunt powerup instead?
 
Parry's can lead into damage though which in itself is a reward.

Plus at this point, it is a mechanic not fully realized. I'm just now noticing some decent BB using parry and getting punishes off of it.

At this point, I think BB is weak, but I'd be cautious about buffs because good use of parry could really cause his game to level up.
 
That's a valid point.
 
@Swiftfox-Dash I'm getting 9k off a combo with the new peacock changes using lenny/argus. How much damage are you looking for off a st.lp hitting? (this is with lnl.)

8.7k if you use lnl at the end of the combo and not the first string. Like 8.3k otherwise.
 
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Off of s.lp? I get 10.5 K with double argus, I thought I mentioned that last night lol
 
Thx. I didn't remember whether you told me on skype or here and I didn't want to scroll.
Currently I'm getting 9.8k with LNL for 2 meters. Which is 700 less damage
 
I dont want a net buff to BB i just want soundstun combos to be a little less complicated since as it is now i have to track things like this:


Beat extend starter: have to go straight into a chain launch since soundstun is already used. Or have to link off the beat extend with st.lp chain into st.hk for corner, cant use juggle with cymbal which is a good bnb linker to otg in the corner, also probably wont have otg.

Giant step, same thing as beat extend except i have otg to work with.

Cymbal crash. The confirm is different and requires different buttons iirc.


Or i get a cr.lk starter at which point in time i can now use cymbal crash linker in the corner and use my otg as well, but i cant use a beat extend linker anymore cause of no soundstun. Also, had i preserved my otg, that frees up ssj, hk giant step, brass xx ssj again. But since i used my soundstun i cant...


Its just ALOT of stuff to have to consider and i havent even gone into cr.hp soundstun or taunted air super soundstun.

I'd just like it to a be a bit more streamlined and simplified than it currently is.

BUT I'm not saying that i have to have these things or something, I'm just saying that they are annoying to have to use and keep track of along with undizzy and ips.

And before anyone says something like "well, just reset early", i do realize that this is an option (and a good one at that) but sometimes you want to do the entire combo to full 240 undizzy and that is where the problem lies... Trying to keep track of soundstun and dizzy and ips and corner and non corner as well as otg is pretty damn unfun when trying to eek out every little bit of available undizzy.

But the mike has spoken so really, this convo is basically over anyways. BB is just a convoluted mess. But still quite a good character and strong to boot.
 
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ugh
argus will randomly make this combo go for 9.8k to 9.6k loool
 
dekillsage said:
ugh
argus will randomly make this combo go for 9.8k to 9.6k loool
Story of my life.
 
Yeah. I'm even having lenny not detonate after argus is done randomly as well.
Anyways this combo I found does 9.6k -> 9.8k, looks like it works everywhere on screen and lets you choose to spend a 3rd bar to go over 10k/or keep corner pressure/ or put them back at fullscreen. Will post, though I should probably look at the other videos posted since its probably the same thing lol

@RemiKz can you post anything you uploaded to far if you have? I don't remember if you did or not

edit: just reached 9.9k. Timing is weird but its possible. So with LNL at the start of your chain you get 9.6k -> 9.9k and at the end you get 9.3k. Think that's alright but that's just me, AND if Mike decides to add more damage to the lenny explosion, you'll probably be getting a consistent 9.5k -> 10k damage range.
 
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dekillsage said:
Yeah. I'm even having lenny not detonate after argus is done randomly as well.
Anyways this combo I found does 9.6k -> 9.8k, looks like it works everywhere on screen and lets you choose to spend a 3rd bar to go over 10k/or keep corner pressure/ or put them back at fullscreen. Will post, though I should probably look at the other videos posted since its probably the same thing lol

@RemiKz can you post anything you uploaded to far if you have? I don't remember if you did or not
I only uploaded the 5 meter ToD thing so far which you will very rarely ever get the chance to do.

Right now I'm getting 10.6-11k damage with 2 meters + LnL assist. It's probably not any different from what you guys are doing.
 
The nerf is like 400 damage or something right?
 
If remikz is getting over 10k in beta then yeah.
Also gosh argus not pushing lenny 100% of the time is annoying. Gonna record this lets see if I get it

edit: Also. Still hate j.mk being an overhead
 
Yeah I've had argus not blow up lenny waaay too often recently. Not sure how to fix that without messing with Lenny's timer or changing the laser distribution somehow.

EDIT: To put it into perspective, I could do 10k with 1 meter + LnL prior to the damage nerfs lol.

 
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Maybe the easiest way is to buff the damage of each laser by a tiny bit, so that a tiny bit times however many lasers guarantees to do a whole Lenny life bar even if a couple of lasers miss.

Not the most elegant way but should work.

Sure beats mucking with his life bar or timer, where you risk changing many combo timings and making people angry.
 
Just so I can throw my damages out there for those it concerns:
My current retail Bnb:
1 bar ~9.8K
2 bars ~11.5K

Same combo in beta:
1 bar ~ 9.3K
2 bars ~ 10.4K
 
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RemiKz said:
Yeah I've had argus not blow up lenny waaay too often recently. Not sure how to fix that without messing with Lenny's timer or changing the laser distribution somehow.

EDIT: To put it into perspective, I could do 10k with 1 meter + LnL prior to the damage nerfs lol.


LOL that beam looks so weird after seeing the short one 500 times.
THIS 10K THOUGH REST IN PIECE PARASOUL
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
Just so I can throw my damages out there for those it concerns:
My current retail Bnb:
1 bar ~9.8K
2 bars ~11.5K

Same combo in beta:
1 bar ~ 9.3K
2 bars ~ 10.4K
That's... still a buttload.
 
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MAN TJ YOU'RE STILL GETTING 10K FOR 2 BAR PLS LOL

Nah but like, that's still a lot of damage for 2 bar. I think its as much as my cerebella + assist 2 bar combo
 
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Zidiane said:
How fast you can overhead people (counting standing normals, since they can be done at the same place jump attacks can be)
Eliza's IAD j.hp = 31f (but can be left/right ambiguous)
Valentine's IAD j.hp =30f (but can be left/right ambiguous)
Peacock's IAD j.lp = 21f
EDIT Per RemiKz: Eliza's IAD j.lk = 19f
Fortune's IAD j.lp = 16f
Filia's IAD j.lk = 15f (I think this one's left/right ambiguous too, but am not sure)
Val IAD jHP: 4f jump start + 8f min IAD height + 1f IAD startup + 18f = 31f
Peacock IAD jLP: 4f jump start + 8f min IAD height + 1f IAD startup + 9f startup = 22f
Filia IAD jLK: 4f jump start + 5f min IAD height + 1f IAD startup + 7f startup = 17f
Fortune jLP 17f (who uses that, though? I only see jHP), Liza too lazy to check but I figure they're off by 1f as well

I figure you forgot the 1f IAD startup everywhere, but how you landed at Filia jLK being 15f, I dnno
On the topic of 15f, Valentine can Backdash-Airdash-jLP for a 15f overhead, apparently

I think comparing fuzzys / anti-BB shit to overheads that hit 80%+ of the cast while crouching is a bit.. dishonest
 
Still likely the 3rd most damaging character in the game.
 
Indeed it is still quite a bit, despite the damage nerfs she can still do a good amount. The main question is just getting a combo started in the first place =p
 
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