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Squigly and Stancels Question

blueberrymilk

blueberrymilk

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I've been playing Squigly's tutorial to get a better grasp of her stancels but I'm finding them a little tricky to get down. I am a little close to giving up trying to play Squig, I am not looking to be pro level or anything with her but just competent at least, and I am nowhere near that thanks to my trouble with the stancels, so that leads to my stupid question. Would a stancel-less Squigly be less powerful? It seems like her stancels make her a more formidable opponent, and if I can't do stancels that well, would I just have to give up playing with her altogether?

Also, if someone, could like, recommend me an easy stancel combo for me to constantly practice, I'd really appreciate it.
Thaaaaaaanks.
 
I basically never use the stancels because I forget they exist and when I remember they exist I can't remember if I have a charge or not. I seem to do okay so I guess you don't really need them, although she's def better if you use them.

There's only two real situations where you need stancels anyways (that I'm aware of) and neither of them are necessary to play the game
1. Optimize your combos for MAXIMUM DAMAGE!!!!! (optimized combos aren't necessary to win in this version of the game, so who cares)
2. End your blockstrings with stancel to stay safe (you can use Arpeggio for this, it's not as good but whatever)

I would say if you like playing Squigly then just keep on keeping on and work the stance cancel stuff into your gameplay at whatever pace you feel comfortable with
 
mcpeanuts said:
I basically never use the stancels because I forget they exist and when I remember they exist I can't remember if I have a charge or not. I seem to do okay so I guess you don't really need them, although she's def better if you use them.

There's only two real situations where you need stancels anyways (that I'm aware of) and neither of them are necessary to play the game
1. Optimize your combos for MAXIMUM DAMAGE!!!!! (optimized combos aren't necessary to win in this version of the game, so who cares)
2. End your blockstrings with stancel to stay safe (you can use Arpeggio for this, it's not as good but whatever)

I would say if you like playing Squigly then just keep on keeping on and work the stance cancel stuff into your gameplay at whatever pace you feel comfortable with
In the big scheme of things mcpeanuts is right, but in my honest opinion I sincerely feel people make WAY MORE of a deal of charging than necessary. It takes only 60 frames which is 1 second. Although charged movement isn't as fast as running, it's faster than walking and often is enough to move yourself far enough away from jump-ins. It takes a bit of practice to distance yourself, but most people leave you to do whatever. I mean I've charged on duck without issue...not saying I've won a lot lol, but it's easy. Charge and move backwards lol.

Anyways getting back to the actual question. Regular bnb damage difference is "only" 500-600 damage (assuming both are optimized [6.8k & 7.3k) & optimized combos with supers is lower at a 300 damage difference (7.7k & 8k). The new bnb I was inspired by weevle to do is super SUPER easy and honestly is one I think you should learn.


But yeah mcpeanuts is right. Using normal bnbs you'll only have to use half to 1 more combo. I just charge because you move off the bat faster as opposed to the pre-dash startup that takes a bit. I'm sure if you transposed the two movements, the first "hop" and a half would come out at the same rate as a dash.
 
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I dunno, I still need to do some work with her. She just feels really funny and odd. I don't feel comfortable with her at all. Every good Squigly player I run into online, I really just want to message them and be all like, "HOW DID YOU GET SO GOOD WITH SQUIG?" Squig kinda = Painwheel to me, they just feel too weird in my hands.
She's definitely the character I need to work on before using her online.
 
Most folks are pretty happy to answer questions if you ask. It's better to be more specific than "How do I git gud", but it doesn't hurt to ask
 
blueberrymilk said:
I dunno, I still need to do some work with her. She just feels really funny and odd. I don't feel comfortable with her at all. Every good Squigly player I run into online, I really just want to message them and be all like, "HOW DID YOU GET SO GOOD WITH SQUIG?" Squig kinda = Painwheel to me, they just feel too weird in my hands.
She's definitely the character I need to work on before using her online.
There aren't really too many good quirky players online though lol...probably just feels like it since you're losing. But either way, just friend people man...it'll help you know. Yeah squigly is pretty floaty at first, but start dive kicking and you'll feel right at home
 
Squigs has, in my opinion, one of the highest learning curves of any character in the game. Just stick with it if she's got the toolset you want. I'm still having a lot of trouble myself but just try to notice small improvements as they come. Baby steps.
 
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As long as this thread has been resurrected from the grave, I'll give an update. My BNB combo in this game does now use one (1) stancel, and I've started sometimes using stancels at the end of blockstrings instead of just always going into Arpeggio (although I still go into Arpeggio sometimes). Working stancels into my game at my own pace. Following my own advice! What a concept.
 
Its really not a good idea to go into Arpeggio most of the time because its not a true blockstring with anything other than s.HK or s.MK and its really easy to just pushblock somebody out of range between the heavy attack and the Arpeggio and whiff punish you.
 
Jason said:
Its really not a good idea to go into Arpeggio most of the time because its not a true blockstring with anything other than s.HK or s.MK and its really easy to just pushblock somebody out of range between the heavy attack and the Arpeggio and whiff punish you.
Yup that's why I'm trying not to do it anymore.
 
Maker said:
Squigs has, in my opinion, one of the highest learning curves of any character in the game. Just stick with it if she's got the toolset you want. I'm still having a lot of trouble myself but just try to notice small improvements as they come. Baby steps.

You are absolutely right. It took lots of losses and training online to get my solo Squigly to be as good as she is now, but I still can't do resets correctly....^~^
 
Nuuance said:
There aren't really too many good quirky players online though lol...probably just feels like it since you're losing. But either way, just friend people man...it'll help you know. Yeah squigly is pretty floaty at first, but start dive kicking and you'll feel right at home

I wish you had a PSN! I would love to play your Squigly~!>v<
 
Nuuance said:
In the big scheme of things mcpeanuts is right, but in my honest opinion I sincerely feel people make WAY MORE of a deal of charging than necessary. It takes only 60 frames which is 1 second. Although charged movement isn't as fast as running, it's faster than walking and often is enough to move yourself far enough away from jump-ins. It takes a bit of practice to distance yourself, but most people leave you to do whatever. I mean I've charged on duck without issue...not saying I've won a lot lol, but it's easy. Charge and move backwards lol.

It's true, people almost always allow me to charge. And if not, I start the match with Battle Opera (LK+MK) to make them pushblock me so I can charge or if they get hit, Free Combo!@^@
 
mcpeanuts said:
As long as this thread has been resurrected from the grave, I'll give an update. My BNB combo in this game does now use one (1) stancel, and I've started sometimes using stancels at the end of blockstrings instead of just always going into Arpeggio (although I still go into Arpeggio sometimes). Working stancels into my game at my own pace. Following my own advice! What a concept.

I am sad to report I've dropped Squigly since making this thread. I just dunno what I'm doing with her, she feels too awkward for me and I don't really like her playstyle. Unfortunate since she's so interesting. I am glad you have progressed with her! -claps- Would like to see you in action sometime.

so jealous right now though
 
So I have been learning squilgy and practicing her stancels and I gotten them pretty down packed the one thing I have a question is are the stancels better than having the chrages ready or not
 
Stancels are better when charged (think its something like 8 frames recovery) where as stancels without charge are something like 16 frames (I'm not 100% sure on these frames, others might know better, I'm just pulling numbers out of my ass trying to remember)

but tl;dr: yes charged stancels are better, but non-charged isnt bad either, just gotta modify your combo a bit (and think doesn't quite have the damage potential).
 
I've been using Squigs for a while and I never touched the stancels thing yet. I think it's better focusing on spacing, punish, combos and resets until I get consistent. Then, I will move to stancels.

And lol, the combo I use is one that I "discovered" only by myself and it's only 300 weaker than that Nuuance posted. I guess I'm not that bad :PUN:
 
The timing on chargeless cancel is so tight, I can't pull it off consistently in combos. Is that something that just comes with practice?
 
ColonCleanse said:
The timing on chargeless cancel is so tight, I can't pull it off consistently in combos. Is that something that just comes with practice?

its just down to learning the timing really. once you get that down its not too bad. obv you can only go into a LP or LK from a st.HP without charge. practice with st.LP since its 6 frame startup.

i regularly do chargeless st.HP into st.LK which is 2 frames slower and dont often drop it so it is definately possible to get it consistently. as with any link its just a matter of practice.

i should probably remember to actually charge more in neutral and not just after a charged DP or killing someone.
 
The only stancel that's hard is the s.HP stancel s.HP. Everything else is at least 4 frames. I think chargeless s.hp stancel c.lk is 5 frames. Pretty doable with a bit of practice.

Max damage takes a lot of practice
 
alexpi said:
The only stancel that's hard is the s.HP stancel s.HP. Everything else is at least 4 frames. I think chargeless s.hp stancel c.lk is 5 frames. Pretty doable with a bit of practice.

Max damage takes a lot of practice
Pretty sure chargeless s.hp > s.lk/c.lk is 2 frames, and s.lp is 3
 
Chargeless HP stancels have an 11 frame window, so:
  • 5LP (6f startup) has 5f
  • 2LP (10f startup) has 1f
  • 5LK and 2LK (8f startup) have 3f
In order of tightness:
  1. 2LP(1f)
  2. 5LK/2LK(3f)
  3. 5LP(5f)

Charged HP stancels have an 18 frame window, so:
  • 5LP (6f startup) has 12f
  • 2LP (10f startup) has 8f
  • 5LK and 2LK (8f startup) have 10f
  • 5MP (13f startup) has 5f
  • 2MP (12f startup) has 6f
  • 5MK (13f startup) has 5f
  • 2MK (14f startup) has 4f
  • 5HP (16f startup) has 2f
  • j.LP (7f startup + 4f jump) has 7f
  • j.LK (8f startup + 4f jump) has 6f
  • j.MP (10f startup + 4f jump) has 4f
  • j.MK (12f startup + 4f jump) has 2f
In order of tightness:
  1. 5HP/j.MK(2f)
  2. 2MK/j.MP(4f)
  3. 5MP/5MK(5f)
  4. 2MP/j.LK(6f)
  5. j.LP(7f)
  6. 2LP(8f)
  7. 5LK/2LK(10f)
  8. 5LP(12f)


@alexpi @zeknife
 
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Whoops that's what I get for trusting my memory
That is a nice comprehensive list though
 
Wait, people use c.LP for stuff?
 
c.LP is pretty good
The 1-frame link isn't though
 
In combos 2LP good for max damage enders, some burst baits, etc. @gllt made a chargeless combo that uses it in order to get crouchers that avoid 5LP.

In neutral it's a very good (but slow) disjointed ground hitbox that stuffs dash-ins and most low-hitting attacks, leading to full combos. It has far better startup and whiffed recovery than 2HP, and you can control how long it's out without stanceling. So use it preemptively when you think they're coming in from the ground. It also beats ground gregor and death crawl, also ekg sometimes.
 
ColonCleanse said:
The timing on chargeless cancel is so tight, I can't pull it off consistently in combos. Is that something that just comes with practice?

Grind it out. Go to practice mode, and just grind it out.

I don't use stance charges (I should to be honest), and unless I take a long break from Squigly, I can reliably hit stanceless s.hp(x2) > 2lk/5lp.

I started with a visual cue which helped. Right as you see the wing pop up from a PP stancel, do the 5lp link (start with this one, it is easier).
 
Thanks for the info everyone! That explains why I was having more trouble with some links than others as well.
 
I cover Seria Cancels in the early portion of this guide, so you could take a look at it if you like.


To be honest, I couldn't pull off Seria Cancels until I switched to a 6-face button controller. Upgrading to a fight stick made things even easier. To each his own, though.
 
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