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Squigly General: Art of the Daisy Pusher

IMO, Squigly is a point character. She can spend lots of meter, but doesn't turn it into huge damage and can generate a fair amount on her own. She also doesn't offer a whole lot to Filia or Big Band as an assist. You can use either c.hp or drag n bite to help Filia's lockdown, so I could see Squigly second with Filia point and BB anchor, but Squigly offers approximately dick all to Big Band. You can get some cute set ups with Center Stage, but just the way Big Band moves and attacks, you can't really get a whole lot.

As far as assists for Squigly, Updo, French Twist, or Hairball all offer decent options and Big Band can rock either heavy Knuckles or light Extend. Personally, I think I'd like Updo and Beat Extend, but you can kinda do whatever you like.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Umm
Uuuh

Are you sure?
You'd be surprised at how much Big Band appreciates a Squigly Cremation assist. It's useful as a secondary low (besides 2/5LK), but my favorite use for it is right before attempting a 623LP or j.LK approach, in case I lose the exchange, my opponent often falls into the assist. It's also good for neutral-zone jumping about to discourage your opponent from pressing buttons.
 
I think you quoted the wrong person Emuchu, but regardless; my problem with Squigly as an assist for BB is that what she gives can be granted by almost any character on the cast. I accept that I could be wrong on this, but the stuff that Squigly offers isn't desperately needed by Big Band. Lockdown is nice and having an extra high-low option is always good, but it feels like the things that BB wants can be better offered by damn near anyone else. The best Big Bands I've ever played have largely relied on playing neutral and letting the other player hang themselves. Squigly doesn't add anything to that unless you're intentionally throwing her out there to get punished.
The particular trio in question (Filia, BB, Squigly) pretty much has to have Big Band on anchor. Squigly and Filia are both strong point characters, and both offer each other desired assists (lockdown/high-low for Filia, true DP for Squigly). Since they both have a way to combo off of damn near anything, Big Band makes sense as an anchor because he has assist options that help both characters and he gets significantly better with meter. I'd accept an argument either way whether to have Filia or Squigly on point, but there's only one place BB should go on this team
 
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Funkermonster said:
In a 3-team (my mains are :FIL: and :BIG:), which Position is Squigly best on? Point, Middle, or Anchor?

In a team of two, should she be first or second?
I'm a strong advocate of having Squigly second. She works best when she has meter and an assist, so you have your first character build meter and your third character be an assist. I would play Filia (L Updo)/Squigly (c.HP)/Big Band (M Beat Extend) with those characters.

In a two character team I think point Squigly would work better than anchor Squigly, because the assist is more important than the meter.
 
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did you know? you can combo from a single (1st) hit of j.MK by using j.HK to fast fall and linking with st.LP?

you can create really tricky resets/mixups with it which ive been messing with recently. after basically any st.HK you can go j.LK, then delay the j.MK-HK, st.LP,cr.MK-F.HP or whatever you want say throw etc.

sometimes it can create a super ambiguous looking crossup instead of just an easy to spot one, but the main mixup is the one when you hit the ground anyway.
 
Evilweevle said:
did you know? you can combo from a single (1st) hit of j.MK by using j.HK to fast fall and linking with st.LP?

you can create really tricky resets/mixups with it which ive been messing with recently. after basically any st.HK you can go j.LK, then delay the j.MK-HK, st.LP,cr.MK-F.HP or whatever you want say throw etc.

sometimes it can create a super ambiguous looking crossup instead of just an easy to spot one, but the main mixup is the one when you hit the ground anyway.
You can also use this for fuzzy guard with j.lp
 
In the corner a thing you can do......is this


s hk > j lp > jmk > j hp....this is where it gets good. > land> s lp >s mk

now to go into detail what is happening at this point. s mk that hits an already airbourne enemy will act as a pseudo launcher.....so what on earth does that mean? well here's what you do. So, after s mk they will be launch and there's no real followup...except you jump and grab them. then you can do divekick> slp or s lk > s hp (x2) silver chord and re-launch.
 
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zeknife said:
You can also use this for fuzzy guard with j.lp

something i need to do waaay more is this.

j.LPxx HK divekick???
 
Dreamepitaph said:
In the corner a thing you can do......is this


s hk > j lp > jmk > j hp....this is where it gets good. > land> s lp >s mk

now to go into detail what is happening at this point. s mk that hits an already airbourne enemy will act as a pseudo launcher.....so what on earth does that mean? well here's what you do. So, after s mk they will be launch and there's no real followup...except you jump and grab them. then you can do divekick> slp or s lk > s hp (x2) silver chord and re-launch.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this doesn't work on every character. I've tried messing around with the "pop up" s.mk but couldn't always get an airgrab. When I slowed it down and looked at it, it didn't seem like there were enough neutral frames in order to get an air grab off.
 
Dolfinh said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this doesn't work on every character. I've tried messing around with the "pop up" s.mk but couldn't always get an airgrab. When I slowed it down and looked at it, it didn't seem like there were enough neutral frames in order to get an air grab off.
For this kind of "weak launcher" grab reset, you likely have to delay your jump by quite a bit, and grab your falling opponent as you're rising. I can't test it at the moment, though.
 
Dolfinh said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this doesn't work on every character. I've tried messing around with the "pop up" s.mk but couldn't always get an airgrab. When I slowed it down and looked at it, it didn't seem like there were enough neutral frames in order to get an air grab off.

----V
Emuchu said:
For this kind of "weak launcher" grab reset, you likely have to delay your jump by quite a bit, and grab your falling opponent as you're rising. I can't test it at the moment, though.
that's exactly what i meant. my bad it works on every character or almost every character.
 
Dolfinh said:
Huh, i'll give that a shot in training mode. Thanks!
As far as resets go, though, HK ^ j.LP j.MK j.HP v LP MK ^ j.Throw is sort of incomplete. It could be okay for throwing people off, since you're not using the more obvious 5HK as your launcher, but it's also weight-dependent with its timing and whiffs against heavies (with Double and Big Band, you have to do LP HK ^ j.Throw instead, or settle for a run-in throw and risk a reversal).

As well, you should know your options following the reset. Although Dreamepitaph states that there's no followup, you can actually do something like HK ^ j.LP j.MK j.HP v LP MK ^ j.LK j.MK j.HP v ^ j.Throw to further obscure your intentions, or end in j.LP j.236MK to catch people attempting to throw tech (since tons of people mash throw tech), or end in her 5MP(1) Stancel crossunder reset to avoid people who can mash midair reversals.
 
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Emuchu said:
As far as resets go, though, HK ^ j.LP j.MK j.HP v LP MK ^ j.Throw is sort of incomplete. It could be okay for throwing people off, since you're not using the more obvious 5HK as your launcher, but it's also weight-dependent with its timing and whiffs against heavies (with Double and Big Band, you have to do LP HK ^ j.Throw instead, or settle for a run-in throw and risk a reversal).

As well, you should know your options following the reset. Although Dreamepitaph states that there's no followup, you can actually do something like HK ^ j.LP j.MK j.HP v LP MK ^ j.LK j.MK j.HP v ^ j.Throw to further obscure your intentions, or end in j.LP j.236MP to catch people attempting to throw tech (since tons of people mash throw tech), or end in her 5MP(1) Stancel crossunder reset to avoid people who can mash midair reversals.
i was about to post in here about the followups but you got to me first about those notes.
however to correct confusion you meant falling woman M? or dive kick M? whichever is more known to you
 
Dreamepitaph said:
i was about to post in here about the followups but you got to me first about those notes.
however to correct confusion you meant falling woman M? or dive kick M? whichever is more known to you
Oh, thanks for catching my typo! Try as I might to review my posts, I keep making those...

Anyway, if we're talking followups, I'll just drop my usual sequence here:

(a) 5HK ^ j.5MK(2) j.5HP(4) v [into resets or (b)/(c)]
^ j.Throw
^ j.LP j.236MK/HK (beats throw tech)
5MP(1)~Stancel (crossunder, corner only)
(delay) 5MP(1)~Stancel (false crossunder, corner only)
2HP (beats pressing buttons)

(b) ^ j.5LP j.5MK(1) j.5HP(4) v
[same options as (a)]

(c) ^ j.5LP j.5MK(2) j.5HK(4) j.236MK v 2LK 2MK 5HK
^ j.Throw
^ j.5LK (delay) j.5MK(1) j.5HP(whiff) v 2LK 2MK etc. (crossover)
^ j.236LK(whiff) v 2LK/Throw (crossunder / false crossunder)
^ j.5LK j.236LK(whiff) v 2LK/Throw (weird reset)
623[MP], hop forward, ]MP[ 214MKHK (weird crossunder)

Hopefully it's readable... enough. Squigly's combos have oodles of reset points and possibilities! Resets are especially valuable for Squigly, since her Blockbusters all do crap for damage. Knowing all the places you can convert into a reset makes you that much more unpredictable: even if you're using a familiar combo sequence, you should never reset in the same place or use a reset that can be escaped with the same options.
 
It would be nice if squigly had this move as a Back Fierce or something

1ZTdckZ.png
 
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Dolfinh said:
What things can I do for push block baiting? I think I need to start messing around with it a good amount.
I don't think there's anything specific you need to do to PB bait with Squigly. People just don't like being in Squigly pressure, what with the c.MK f.HP~Stancel, j.LP M Divekick (repeat) stuff, and tend to either mash reversal or wait and PB the moment they see the familiar c.LK c.MK series or any of her 4-hit flame attacks.

You have to bait on a case-by-case basis. Where and whether they will PB or not depends on the person you're playing, and the options of the character currently out (i.e., people with good reversals are more likely to just Updo xx Gregor / Argus out). Just do your usual block strings into s.HP / f.HP / c.HP, and see whether they push-block Squig's pressure or not. Savvier players will even PB her c.LK or c.MK after a jump-in. If they do, take a mental note of where they PB, and introduce timing gaps with either Stancel into c.LK/c.MK or delaying buttons to create frame traps. It's really that simple. Just make sure your opponent isn't mashing DPs, or, god forbid, churning butter (Showstopper).

PB baiting is a bit of an advanced technique requiring a good read of your opponent, but successfully doing it will catch people trying to predictably escape Squigly pressure, and will absolutely blow up the confidence of people who try to PBGC reversal, likely giving you free ins for the rest of the match.

TL,DR: Respond to button pressing by not pressing any buttons. Become psychic and command respect and humility.
 
Erreip199 said:
It would be nice if squigly had this move as a Back Fierce or something

1ZTdckZ.png

It would be nice if she had that colour, WHAT IS THAT ITS GLORIOUS!!!!
 
It's Double's default color, I believe.
 
It is, i just grabbed that sprite from the compendium, its one of the moves double does during her LvL 3. I feel like that move would make a good anti air for squigly.
 
IsaVulpes said:
wait c.LK
c.LK, c.LK
L instead of M Divekick
c.HP/6HP sx, wait c.LK
Blub
L and M divekick both have the same blockstun, so that doesn't matter
c.mk is good because it has low blockstun
c.lp also has low blockstun and can be canceled unpredictably
 
Blockstun isn't the only thing that matters in terms of how hard it is to reaction pushblock something. There's also Hitstop to consider.

So, for example, cr.MP and cr.MK are both almost identical because even though cr.MK has less blockstun, it has more hitstop than cr.MP
 
Calypsx said:
Any good anti air normals I can use to stuff characters constantly jumping in at me?
Squigly doesn't really want to anti-air jumpers from the ground. Against Filia's instant air dash, s.MP is a good option. For jumpers, I wouldn't recommend normals, but you can use a pre-emptive Liver Mortis or Draugen Punch, cancelled into MH Battle Opera. Center Stage Seria xx MH Battle Opera also works for people who jump backwards and try to projectile you (Fukua, Valentine, Peacock).

What you actually want to do is meet jump-ins in the air, where Squigly's options are stronger. You can stuff a lot of things with the disjointed hit box of j.LK, or you can try to maneuver around the jump-in attack with Squigly's double-jump to get a good angle for L or M Fallen Maiden.
 
Calypsx said:
Any good anti air normals I can use to stuff characters constantly jumping in at me?
j.LK if they're pressing buttons
Air throw if they aren't pressing buttons (Squiglys air throw is pretty much the best)
 
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So my experiment with Squigly's Cr.Hp as an assist has yield little to no success,(Because lsbh who doesn't already block low after a jump-in anyhow) so I'm switching to her command normal: Forward Hp as my new assist.Hopefully it does better.

Question: Do anyone use her Forward Hp as an assist?
 
f.hp is a little less 'safe' than c.hp. with c.hp, her hitbox is really small and is significantly disjointed from her hitbox. If you have some specific setups for f.hp, then by all means, use it. There's a reason that the 'standard' lockdown assists are Drag n' Bite or c.hp though.
 
Well I don't have anything on paper yet when it comes to f.hp setups(I'll probably figure something out later on tonight and post my findings). If things don't pan out like I want it,I'll go back to cr.hp or try out Drag N'Bite....
 
Israel said:
So my experiment with Squigly's Cr.Hp as an assist has yield little to no success,(Because lsbh who doesn't already block low after a jump-in anyhow) so I'm switching to her command normal: Forward Hp as my new assist.Hopefully it does better.

Question: Do anyone use her Forward Hp as an assist?

Put them in a combo.
Jump, call assist, profit.

If they are blocking it, then you aren't mixing it up well enough. They should be utterly confused as to whether or not your jump-in or the assist call is going to hit first.

The point is to confuse your opponent as to whether or not they need to block high or low.

If you have Steam, I'd be glad to show you how difficult a c.hp mix-up can be to block.
 
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Spencer said:
Put them in a combo.
Jump, call assist, profit.

If they are blocking it, then you aren't mixing it up well enough. They should be utterly confused as to whether or not your jump-in or the assist call is going to hit first.

The point is to confuse your opponent as to whether or not they need to block high or low.

If you have Steam, I'd be glad to show you how difficult a c.hp mix-up can be to block.
I run Squigly on anchor. c.HP assist is really good for Parasoul, because of her standing overheads, and Bella, because of her command grabs. People tend to react to the sight of the assist jumping in, so you can punish their preemptive defense. Besides that, though, c.HP is valuable for its width, duration, and ease of defending--assist choices should be about more than just a couple of setups.
 
I too use Squigly as my anchor. Personally I don't like Drag n' Bite with Val. Everyone always says its good but I just feel like it's meh. c.hp is my assist not just because it hits low and locksdown, but also because it's a much better alpha counter than drag n' bite. If you alpha counter on filia's gregor to avoid chip, you can cancel the cremation into silver chord to punish. Also if you burst > alpha, you get a free charge (unless they didn't get hit by the burst making this pretty risky). Napalm pillar > bikes > sbo is safe in a lot of instances, which gives Squigly a dp to work with. One problem is I'm mainly playing my characters solo until I get close enough to use squigly, so the team is pretty weak on offense.
 
Emuchu said:
I run Squigly on anchor. c.HP assist is really good for Parasoul, because of her standing overheads, and Bella, because of her command grabs. People tend to react to the sight of the assist jumping in, so you can punish their preemptive defense. Besides that, though, c.HP is valuable for its width, duration, and ease of defending--assist choices should be about more than just a couple of setups.

I think yes and no. Squigs 2hp works as a mixup in a host of situations (far more than "one or two") which is powerful alone... especially since my point is flying a lot of the time making a high/low threat very real most of the time.

It also acts as a lockdown which, again, is valuable alone. Add the two together and it is a super sexy reset. That said, it only works at neutral in a few situations. Its potential both as a lockdown and as a low really increases after hitting the opponent or putting them into blockstun.

For other situations? I picked up a third.
 
Spencer said:
I think yes and no. Squigs 2hp works as a mixup in a host of situations (far more than "one or two") which is powerful alone... especially since my point is flying a lot of the time making a high/low threat very real most of the time.

It also acts as a lockdown which, again, is valuable alone. Add the two together and it is a super sexy reset. That said, it only works at neutral in a few situations. Its potential both as a lockdown and as a low really increases after hitting the opponent or putting them into blockstun.

For other situations? I picked up a third.
I actually meant my post in support of 2HP over 6HP (what I meant by "1 or 2 setups,") but I suppose that didn't come through very well.
 
Ah, I see. I thought you were criticizing my post. Lord I'm defensive. Sorry :(
 
Adeveis said:
If you alpha counter on filia's gregor to avoid chip, you can cancel the cremation into silver chord to punish. Also if you burst > alpha, you get a free charge (unless they didn't get hit by the burst making this pretty risky).
This sounds really interesting, and I have to try it! I used to try Stunt Double into Cerecopter>kara>Diamond Drop (I don't know why it works), but I've never even considered Stunt Double cancelled normals.
Spencer said:
Ah, I see. I thought you were criticizing my post. Lord I'm defensive. Sorry :(
Haha, no worries. I do that sometimes, too.
 
@Emuchu
I just realized I didn't explain something. When alpha countering gregor, Filia will pass right through so that's why silver chord is necessary here unless you're in the corner or spend bar on sbo. Alpha Cerecopter > kara > diamond drop? that sounds crazy, and i have to try it.
 
wait, you can kara command throws out of other specials?
 
alexpi said:
wait, you can kara command throws out of other specials?
Yes, well at least run 360.

I should actually get around to trying her other command grabs as karas, but uniel doe.
 
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