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Stop Calling Beat Extend: The Thread Edition

Top Dallas

Top Dallas

Beat Extend
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Top_Dallas
Valentine Double Big Band
I'm Top_Dallas and i'm a player primarily seen in the MAXOUT tournaments in the KC area. I first played sg around mid 2014 but started taking it seriously late 2015.

I currently play Val Double and Beat Extend. I picked up Val from the beginning and added big band near the beginning of 2015. I put Cerebella in there around the same time as well but I've moved on from her due to never really liking her playstyle and better assist options with double. I got a double last week.

Double is by far my weakest character because obvious reasons.

I'd say I have a good understanding of the game's mechanics and consider myself a mid-level player and i'm not good at describing myself as a player other than beat extend is life

here's a qm set I did with a guy (I thought it would save the name ;_;) mostly featuring my double but Big Band also does some work.

 

Another QM set but this has my Val and me losing some matches
 
I have watched these two sets. I have a few thoughts that are in an order that I came up with.

-You do jump forward j.HP with Double a lot, to like the exclusion of doing anything else at neutral. It's a real good tool but if it's not spaced right it can be beat out by faster buttons or buttons that were pushed earlier, which happens a lot. Granted you can get pretty far with double with just jump forward j.HP (for example, I got top 8 at NEC), but she has a lot of other good tools, like neutral jump j.HP, or jump back j.HP (which is actually really powerful with your team because you can hit confirm and convert off jump back j.HP by calling Beat Extend). If you feel like pushing a button other than HP, c.LK is also really strong and the luger is a very good gun. j.HK is pretty good for zoning too.

-If you weren't aware, Hornet Bomber assist gives Big Band a really strong corner combo, which is like

c.LK c.MK s.HK call Bomber xx M Brass,
c.MK s.HK xx M Brass,
OTG c.MPx2 s.HK xx Beat Extend

into whatever the rest of your corner combo looks like, although there's 1 extra ground chain so you'll have to omit 1 chain from your normal combo. This should add like 800 damage.

-Learn Double's max undizzy combo. There's a few points where you do launch into barrel loop into oops I can't go any further I'm out of undizzy. Her max undizzy combo is just whatever ground string into H luger into whatever ground string into super. You can also do a Cilia Slide instead of a Luger if you want.

-Pay attention to Squigly's use of Silver Chord in combos, if she does a second one it won't stagger and you'll recover way faster. She's still plus but you gotta be ready for a fast reset. I always get hit by this too, to be fair.

-When your burst hits, you can usually convert off it by alpha countering to Beat Extend. This comes up in the second set in the second game, there's a burst I think you could have converted off. I don't think you were expecting to burst because you were mashing something, but as a rule any time you're mashing get ready to alpha counter in case your mash becomes a burst.

-You can also punish safe DHCs with an alpha counter to Beat Extend. The guy in the second set does stuff into cat heads a lot and Beat Extend alpha counter blows that up

-Stop calling Big Band so much omg stop it he's dying Dallas what are you doing he's at 10% DALLAS NO STOP YOU'RE KILLING HIM
 
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mcpeanuts said:
-Pay attention to Squigly's use of Silver Chord in combos, if she does a second one it won't stagger and you'll recover way faster. She's still plus but you gotta be ready for a fast reset. I always get hit by this too, to be fair.
Yeah if you notice in the video I spasm with double, that's because I forgot he already used it in the combo and I was shaking to get out of it.

mcpeanuts said:
-Stop calling Big Band so much omg stop it he's dying Dallas what are you doing he's at 10% DALLAS NO STOP YOU'RE KILLING HIM
No
 
Noticed that you drop your Val double snap.
An easy one is:

otg s.lk, c.hp
J.hk (1 hit) xx h bypass, m bypass.
 
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Fedora_Ninja said:
Noticed that you drop your Val double snap.
An easy one is:

otg s.lk, c.hp
J.hk (1 hit) xx h bypass, m bypass.
to be even easier you can do just the h bypass
 
My personal thoughts on what I need to improve on. Posting here as a reminder.
-Adapting a safer approach with neutral with Val now that I have Double Butt. More shurikens and j.hk
-Learn more corner resets or in general options
-Remember Alpha counters are a thing and Beat Extend fucks up that fireball dhc
-More c.lk in neutral with double.
-That double vs. peacock match up holy shit I suck
-Remember that Cat heads are quarter FORWARD kicks
-lk bomber is best option for pbgc stuff
-End blocks strings with gunshot, that side switch shit won't work for long
-Learn a real CH combo with Double
-Teacup is a thing that exists
 
do you use l extend? i think m is a little better for this team
 
Receita Federal said:
do you use l extend? i think m is a little better for this team
I've been running both but mostly using L.

Top Dallas said:
-Learn more corner resets or in general options
-
I forgot to mentions that this mostly applies to double.
 
Most people use L Beat since its faster. M and H may have more Invul frames but as a DP assist. Its speed will do just greatly either way.

Also you should work in doing safe DHC's for safe switch-ins as well.
 
More Val stuff:

-Do not jump forward with j.hk. The start up is far too long to try to be aggressive with. Neutral Jump or up back.
-Don't rely on air dash j.mp as your only method to get in and beat extend assist as your fall back plan. Chuck some crosses and/or call the booty assist and dash forward.
You'll find that j.mp isn't the best thing in the world, esp. if you're fighting another dp assist or chars with god tier air grabs. I have been scooped out of j.mp by parasoul so many times.
-can counter Beowulf ARM with Val's lvl2 post flash if you hit a button. (I think? someone test for me pls.)
-Turns out it's not just your double snap you drop, you consistently drop Val combos at some point. Sometimes it cost you the kill.
-never reaches a point where you go into super to safely dhc her out to regain some health.
-I don't agree with the full screen ground scalpels.



Big Band:

-I haven't really looked much at your band, but I'm seeing a glaring weakness if you're punishing super negative stuff with SSJ and letting them out of the corner. Dhoppler should have just been snapping in your band the whole time.

-M beat extend is better than L during stare downs since it's more plus on block as an assist.
The reduced speed also gives more time to load a vial, and more time to set up a launcher > bypass/cilia slide reset. Depending on the timing you can be either left or right of the opponent.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
-can counter Beowulf ARM with Val's lvl2 post flash if you hit a button. (I think? someone test for me pls.)

You can't do anything beside block in beo's arm range post-flash. However, if you happen to be outside of its range you're free to do any super you want.

rP504lT.jpg

Red box is not actual hitbox but to show where people should not press any buttons
 
Yo who wants more dhoppler matches (not me)
who said that
I already see that I need to work on throwing people more when I think they're going to down back +assist call.
Learn a real counter hit double combo
It's 5am I'm tired

https://www.twitch.tv/kcsrk/v/82184986?t=03h28m05s
 
Mainly going from the last video...

- Jokes aside, stop calling Band...
I lost count of how many times he died as an assist but I know I only saw 1 double snap.
Every time you fell out of a combo or blockstring, Band was called. Chill out.

- Your team order is important. There's a reason people play Val on point, don't take her off point for no reason. The only Val combos you actually finished ended with air 236KK > monster DHC and up until the point I watched to, it never killed which meant you we're left with Val anywhere but on point... Then she died because you tried to call Band but your assists were switched.
The only reasons to take Val out are if she's bleeding super bad (even then you're sometimes better off taking the risk with her in) or if you're DHCing to kill and even then you should tag her back in afterwards.

- Finish more combos...
I saw about 2 finished Val combos and they both ended as explained above. The corner is valuable and so is st.HKx3 sliding knockdown.

- Do more vial load combos.
Bomber assist makes this super easy and poison is amazing especially against singles or duos as it does a % of HP, not a flat number.
You do one in the 2nd video in your OP but you throw the vial when he had like 12% HP left. Poison doesn't do anything one your opponent hits 10%.

- Mix up when you go for the reset.
You always go for a reset at the same point in your combos. You'll see more success if you mix it up.

- Random bypass in neutral and on block is no good. I'm upset Dhoppler didn't punish you for it at all.
Bypass should always be covered by butt assist or done as air bypass and cancelled into scalpels.

You did the same opening *every*single*game*... j.Hk + bomber.
Dhoppler punished it with rush punch once then you kept doing it.

- For real. RIP Big Band.
 
-Got hit by almost all the dp assists and a bunch of reversal SSJ. You started baiting the reversal supers, but not so much baiting the beat extend assist and counter calling with double.
-Not enough throwing/overheads in general. Dhoppler was just down backing everything you threw at him. Use tick throws more. A just j.lp Big Band.
-Using beat extend as a lockdown assist when you have the flying booty
-Reset point is almost always the same with Val, and the reset doesn't itself doesn't change so you're eating a reversal SSJ or he's blocking your crossup j.hp.
-Not resetting Peacock/Big Band in the air (with Val); both have limited options in the air to stop pressure.
 
It's not like I'm calling beat extend to keep my only meme going ;_;. I'm really to stop the Beat Extend dependency. I've even disabled the macro on my personal set-up to help kill the habit.

Peacock and BB are kinda weird to reset for me. Peacock can jump out of Vals blender pretty easily and there's not a variety of crossunders that can be preformed on band. I guess I should evolve my gameplan into trapping Big Band in the corner since I can corner carry easier now and force sliding knock down set ups.
On that same note I was never a fan of getting to the sliding knock down because I never liked how much undizzy it cost to get there, So the combos afterward never did that much damage due to the amount of undizzy caused by the set up. Should prolly lab some max undizzy val combos then.

I agree with everything else you two mentioned as well
I also need to work on
My hands not going retarded with double, I tried doing Val confirm chains with double and that caused my to drop some confirms
H Luger more when my opponent is fucking around above me because it's useful like that
Learn a better combo off of H Luger
Learn more Val combos
 
You'll find you get a lot more damage out of your remaining undizzy once you start doing vial load combos.
You also get a vial load off each sliding knockdown. These add up super quick.
 
Aight Got some point band matches in with a QM random guy.
I'm noticing a pattern that I like to do a lot of jump ins during the neutral. I need to get more confidence on the ground with double's booty behind me.
And my scramble insitincts are pretty bad.
 
Top Dallas said:
Aight Got some point band matches in with a QM random guy.
I'm noticing a pattern that I like to do a lot of jump ins during the neutral. I need to get more confidence on the ground with double's booty behind me.
And my scramble insitincts are pretty bad.
One thing that's jumping out at me in this video is you don't really do Cymbal Clash at neutral unless you're cancelling into it from j.LK. And like cancelling into it like that is good obv but raw cymbals is really important space control too, especially against a character like Filia who has a lot of trouble contesting it. It's tough to play footsies with Big Band because of how fat and slow he is, so you can't really set up the optimal spacing for Cymbal Clash easily. If you happen to find yourself at that spacing though, try neutral jumping or jumping back, and if you see them move forward, give them the big cymbals.
 

God damn fighting this guy put me on tilt.
Watching it again is putting me on tilt
guh
I had so much trouble trying to catch this guys robo fortune it's depressing me considering she's better in the beta, couldn't adapt to shit, always blocking my resets, felt like I was being read the entire time.
Need to work on:
Not Tilting
Robo match up
writing down the names of the people I'm recording. Feel kinda bad about not giving credit or recognition.
 
- BB calls are less common now but he still dies as an assist abit too much. Keep up the improvement there.

- Airdash j.MP with Val is clearly your go-to but try not to get stuck doing nothing but that. There's times where your opponent is in the corner blocking the butt where you could just run in but instead you take the time to airdash j.MP which isn't really a mixup and keeps killing your pursue.

There was also a case where robo was a full screen above you b and about 1/3 of a screen to hit left and your response was to airdash j.MP which understandably whiffed and I think it got punished.

Many times where you were point blank midscreen and you did airdash j.MP over them and since it has no back hitbox it whiffed and you got punished.

- Stop putting hoodlums in the corner with no backup plan (assist) to get you out.
Just watch how many times you end up getting corner combo'd out of your
own corner offense.

- Don't SSJ a cornered potent unless it'll kill. You're losing a lot of ground by resetting to full screen every time. This is super important against robo because you don't want to char her down again.
This applies to as a reversal as well. Consider using beat extend instead if you're facing the
corner.

- Kill kill kill. If you can kill a character with a combo, do it. There's still situations whee you go for a reset you didn't need and lose offense because it didn't work. This is especially important i n 2v3 because you have the killing power.

- Using H bypass to get in on zoners is surprisingly viable but it's a free punish if you don't cancel into scaples. Sower cancel dat
bypassssss.

- You're loading vial more which is nice but barely ever using it.. You should still be loading vital more often than you are with butt assist combos and sliding knockdown though.

- beat extend gives you hella time to confirm. Use that time to cross under if appropriate.
There was a time where beat extend hit with your back to the corner and you went into a midscreen combo against robo instead of crossing under and using the corner. You tried to reset early and it got blocked and robo got away.
 
Experimenting with Filia to make the slow transition to Team Ducking
initial thoughts: Why is Updo so small and shitty
Why does filia need like 30 combos for the whole cast
This was a mistake oh god help me
 
Top Dallas said:
Why does filia need like 30 combos for the whole cast
What? Her combos (or at least all of the ones I know with her) are universal apart from some corner ones. At most you have to delay some air buttons depending on what your first string is.
 
Depends on the character but the whole cast has different combos for different weight classes for Optimized Damage reasons. Personally I like to JUST use the universal one and if I can do it. Practice it online verses others and try and look for how stays hits with x character can convert into the rest of the combo. Also I prefer simple ease of execution combos for decent damage compared to more possibilities to drop optimized combos for 1000 to 500 more damage then simple.
 
Welp, I'm prolly gonna Cop Out like a sit com right now. This is a much larger undertaking than I expected. The move from Cerebellas to double made me realize that the style that I like to reset with isn't what cerebella was good at. So I figured moving to Filia over BB would be similar. So In my head, I thought my Big Band was struggling because of the reset style that he uses is not what I am naturally good at as a player. So I thought Filia would pick up really well at. Now I just think that happened because Double is a Rounded character cause Filia is pretty shit as a character outside of resets. My opinion and experience is skewed towards big band but that's what happens when comparing my experience between the two. And I haven't recorded anything because my Filia gets blown up 98% of the time.
So right now I'm considering my options between Big Band and Filia.
Big Band-
Beat Extend
Double synergy is pretty good for both characters
Double second for safe DHC
More comfortable with him as an anchor
He big and my defense is bad.
Beat extend is a bad habit
2 great big bands in my area so my big band out playing them or catching up will be a bitch of an undertaking in it's own right

Filia-
When I'm in there and all my resets hit it's the most fun I have playing this game
She's pretty bad on her own
A lot of people have experience against Team Duck outside of KC and that'd be a hill to get over.
Improves my defense and has me think as a player
really like the fast reset style
 
up to you pal.


Val/double/band

or
val/fi/dub

both have their strengths. particularly band bomber is annoying to deal with in the corner. you get a mid with a safe dhc and you're golden!

val fi dub is good in its own right cause of filia bomber if you know how to use it.
 
We got some Filia play!

So that's neat
 
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