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The "Let's over-analyse social media updates" thread

Caleb

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The giant skeleton hands in her lineup shot have to play a role in her gameplay style, right? Necromancer Shinnok has three special attacks with giant skeleton hands, two are projectiles and one is a command grab. Devil's Flick is good to push the opponent away. Judgment Fist can work similarly to Peacock's Shadow of Impending Doom.

Sadly I couldn't find any gifs, so I can only provide you a video



I also wonder how is she going to move around? Is she going to hover or walk?
 
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Holy Goose

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I also wonder how is she going to move around? Is she going to hover or walk?
She's going to fly around on her vacuum cleaner.

Necromancer Shinnok has three special attacks with giant skeleton hands, two are projectiles and one is a command grab.
Oh yeah, we need a Shinnok palette for Marie.

The giant skeleton hands in her lineup shot have to play a role in her gameplay style, right?
Well, she has them in her concept art for a reason...
I want to believe!
 

BellaFeng4Eternity

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But Marie's story mode probably would be very lore-heavy. I hope so, at least.
Yeah. I'm thinking her story would revolve around how she and Patricia became friends and how she became the new Skullgirl afterwards. Should be pretty interesting to say the least.
 
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vacuum cleaner can make wind yes plz..? T_T More expecting some touhou movement tho.
I'm pretty sure the main way her vacuum cleaner is gonna work is like Rachel Alucard's wind from Blazblue. Rachel is in her gameplay inspiration after all and another inspiration she has is "Mega Maid" who can use a giant vacuum to suck in or expel out objects.
 

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and another inspiration she has is "Mega Maid" who can use a giant vacuum to suck in or expel out objects.
Originally, it's stated that Marie could interact with the corpses of her opponents via the vacuum cleaner to gain some sort of a bonus.
I hope this demonic cleaning appliance will have more functions. Too cool not to have.
Mega Maid palette when.

Yeah. I'm thinking her story would revolve around how she and Patricia became friends and how she became the new Skullgirl afterwards. Should be pretty interesting to say the least.
I hope to get more information about the Skullgirl's connection to The Trinity.
And more lore on Double.
Always good to have more lore on Double.
 
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I unironically hope Marie's story is something extremely melodramatic -- to the point where it feels out of place with the rest of the game. Just really hammer in that Marie is a young girl who gave up her entire life for the sake of avenging her best friend and that in-spite of Marie's devotion, her own indomitable willpower will ensure that she remains weak as the Skullgirl and possibly make her quest fruitless.
Not to mention that her best friend was specifically engineered to kill her and that Peacock's own aloofness and irreverence contrasts so heavily with Marie's somber and tragic personality.
 

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I unironically hope Marie's story is something extremely melodramatic -- to the point where it feels out of place with the rest of the game. Just really hammer in that Marie is a young girl who gave up her entire life for the sake of avenging her best friend and that in-spite of Marie's devotion, her own indomitable willpower will ensure that she remains weak as the Skullgirl and possibly make her quest fruitless.
Not to mention that her best friend was specifically engineered to kill her and that Peacock's own aloofness and irreverence contrasts so heavily with Marie's somber and tragic personality.
Also it feels highly likely that she’ll die even in her own story mode.
 

BellaFeng4Eternity

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I think it would be amazing if you have a fight where it's playable marie vs boss marie. Framing it as marie fighting against the skull heart's influence or something like that.
That would be cool but I doubt it'll happen unfortunately. But, yeah. I can definitely see her dying at the end of her story which would be very sad to see. :(
 

tristePinguino

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Forgive me if this is kinda off-topic (I don't feel like this warrants its own thread), but do you think we can expect an update to the game's intro after Season 1's completion?
 
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Forgive me if this is kinda off-topic (I don't feel like this warrants its own thread), but do you think we can expect an update to the game's intro after Season 1's completion?
Logically speaking, we should.
 

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Forgive me if this is kinda off-topic (I don't feel like this warrants its own thread), but do you think we can expect an update to the game's intro after Season 1's completion?
Far as I know, we have only got updates to the intro when the game got named updates (specifically, Encore and Second Encore). I don't think they will make one just for Season 1, but if we get a named update after Season 1 (which I think is a possibility), we could.
 
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I noticed they replied to two of the comments here.

"Attendees are allowed to film and take photos at the booth as long as it's not a "stationary setup" like a tripod, or using flash / lights. We encourage players to share their Dahlia footage!"

So there should be some footage of Dahlia pretty soon then.

"This is from her walking animation. Love that confident swagger! Not all of her animations are cleaned up yet, but this one just screamed 'social post'!"

Which would imply that the majority of her animations are cleaned up, so I'm guessing she'll be around the same as Umbrella was when she was first released into alpha.
 

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I am beginning to question the Geneva Convention.
Gonna be honest, and I understand why the design likely HAS to be changed, but I feel that since Valentine's theme was using medical equipment as ninja weapons, outright changing her crosses into shuriken feels kind of on the nose.
I wonder if Ileum's and the Last Hope's crosses will also become shuriken, or if they'll be different for each character which might end up looking goofy. Like four-leaf clovers for Patty, for example.
 
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Corridor89

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It's stil wack to me that anyone is allowed to just own basic geometry.
It's bonkers that the laws of the 1864 Geneva Convention somehow apply to video games and fictional use of the red cross symbol in general. And that this is apparently something that cannot be challenged or changed, and that the current national Red Cross organizations are very happy about throwing this fact around.
 

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3 thoughts on this:

1) The new design

I don't dislike it more than the purple cross lol. Compared to the red cross, it's still a significant downgrade, but I think it's more-or-less a side-grade from the purple.

2) Why now

Changing the entire game's sprites for Val as well as other official art, and also the other nurses, is a ton of work and this is definitely not a decision they took lightly.

Most likely there are pressures from publishers and promotors in order to change the design, even with the purple cross. I think in certain lighting and especially if you have colour blindness, the purple cross could still be mistaken for the the red, which is likely why certain parties might not find even the purple cross acceptable. I'm sure the devs don't like it anymore than we do

3) The law

I think there are a lot of misunderstandings on the laws regarding the use of the Red Cross symbol and the prohibition thereof, so I just want to summarise it for people who might find it helpful. Note that I'm not a lawyer and if anyone with deeper knowledge on this want to correct me or chip in please feel free:

- The Geneva Convention prohibits the use of the Red Cross symbol against illicit uses during war time. This would include, for example, putting the symbol on combatants, painting the symbol on military vehicles, using Red Cross-painted ambulances to transport weapons, etc. The misuse of the symbol in this context could and should be considered a war crime

- The Convention also requires its parties to implement their own national-level law that protects the symbol in usages in non-war times. So pretty much every country in the world would have this law although the actual law may be different from country to country. The basic of it is that the symbol should not be used outside of their intended usages and when not authorised by the Red Cross. Practically, it is akin to copyright for commercial symbols/logos, but with a completely separate law protecting it.

Like most of you, I think the enforcement on virtual usages like in videogames is definitely a bit overzealous, but, similarly to enforcement of commercial copyright, if you fail to enforce every violation, it "dilutes" your claim over the symbol and it will hurt your claims in the future. In other words, if you let some people get away with it, the more people can get away with it.

This is where I will defend the Red Cross over their protection on the symbol: unlike most of the other controversies over visual aspects of the game, the Red Cross symbol is actually a serious tool that is a matter of life and death for thousands people in the world who find themselves in conflict zones.

Imagine if the Red Cross were not protected and companies paint it on buildings, vehicles, etc., and that country becomes a conflict zone. Civilians would not know which are legitimate Red Crosses and which are not. The trivialisation of the Red Cross symbol can also weaken its importance in people's minds and reduces its effectiveness when war actually breaks out.

This might seem like a far-fetched scenario, but I think the past few months have shown us that seemingly peaceful places could turn into a warzone at any given moment. I think the importance of the Red Cross to symbolise humanitarian aids in conflict zones is more important than ever, and I can understand why publishers and promotors would be very sensitive about this right now.
 
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Chrono_Tata

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I wonder if Ileum's and the Last Hope's crosses will also become shuriken, or if they'll be different for each character which might end up looking goofy. Like four-leaf clovers for Patty, for example.
I think Last Hope nurses all getting the same shuriken design would make sense since they are all ninja nurses. Ileum getting it would be weird though, since I don't think she's one.

surely i can't be the only one liking the pink shurikens better than the red crosses
It's just you :^)

But seriously though, I like the shuriken shape, but the colour is definitely worse. Red was a good fit with the rest of her colour theme and really popped as the centre of the outfit. Like Superman's red crest or Batman's yellow. Red symbolises danger and solemnity. Pink looks fine but it's just... not right.

But yeah, I assume the decision came from the top that the new symbol can't be anything that is close to red while it still even vaguely resemble a cross, so that's what we got. I think the other option would have been to make it red but using a symbol that does not resemble a cross at all, but they couldn't come up with any other symbol that would look good/appropriate.
 

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From what I understand so far, reading up a little bit, the Red Cross has essentially decided to crack down on "illegal" usage of the logo after a 2007 (unsuccessful) lawsuit Johnson & Johnson filed against the American Red Cross. Since then, it's basically turned into all national Red Cross organizations (each country having "their own" Red Cross) getting aggressive about enforcing their sole right to the logo. A lot of video games post-2010 have had their medical crosses changed. Doom is an example in Bethesda's rereleases of the game. For much the same reason any company would aggressively sue anyone infringing on intellectual property, and Nintendo taking down ROMs and YouTube music uploads would be a familiar and comparable example to that.

Still, I find it interesting as to why the Red Cross would need to defend the property against fictional usage of the logo when this is so obviously outside the normal rules of copyright law. It's baked into an entire international treaty for goodness sake.


I can at least appreciate that the shuriken maintain a similar shape as the cross, and functionally fulfill the same or role (technically the other way around) in her attacks. Any other more nurse-appropriate logos would be far less likely to fit with the ninja theming or attacks. Closest alternative I could think of is a heart on the cap, but shuriken on the legs. And hey, a heart would fit with the holiday theming of the Last Hope (though perhaps visually a heart+shuriken may be a bit messy for the design).
 
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I'm fine with it.

I can see what others have said that it'll probably extend to other labs related designs as well like val's backstory cast.
 
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From what I understand so far, reading up a little bit, the Red Cross has essentially decided to crack down on "illegal" usage of the logo after a 2007 (unsuccessful) lawsuit Johnson & Johnson filed against the American Red Cross. Since then, it's basically turned into all national Red Cross organizations (each country having "their own" Red Cross) getting aggressive about enforcing their sole right to the logo. A lot of video games post-2010 have had their medical crosses changed. Doom is an example in Bethesda's rereleases of the game. For much the same reason any company would aggressively sue anyone infringing on intellectual property, and Nintendo taking down ROMs and YouTube music uploads would be a familiar and comparable example to that

I can at least appreciate that the shuriken maintain a similar shape as the cross, and functionally fulfill the same or role (technically the other way around) in her attacks. Any other more nurse-appropriate logos would be far less likely to fit with the ninja theming or attacks.
Yeah, far as I'm concerned the Johnson & Johnson case was the only time this matter has gone to court and it didn't even reach judgement. So I don't think any one even knows what would have happen if you lose a case over this, which makes it even more scary.

Red Cross organisations basically wrote letters to videogame companies to ask them to stop using the Red Cross symbol while pointing out it is illegal, but far as I know none of them were taken to court; the companies basically complied with the requests. I don't think any of them wanted to fight this, and it's kind of bad publicity to try to go to court against a humanitarian organisation, as J&J found out lol.

It's worth noting that there are still plenty of indie videogames that still use it though (like SG did in the beginning). The Red Cross basically only went after the big fishes.

Also worth to note that SG's developer or publishers were never contacted by the Red Cross about this. The reason the cross was originally changed to purple was when SG was going to be released in Japan and they got Marvelous as their publisher. Marvelous could not knowingly break this law, especially since they are a public company, and told LZ to change it.

I'm assuming something similar happened this time but with an even more overly cautious publisher/promotor. (Anyone remember the Val Nendoriod that was announced a few months back and went quiet?)
 
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The Valentine Nendoroid has definitely come up a few times in the discussions I have seen elsewhere. I think it's the likely suspect. All previous Valentine-related merchandising wasn't with such a well-known company as Good Smile.
 
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I'm fine with the change. It's surprising, though. But totally understandable. And it doesn't make Valentine any worse, even if it's a bit in-your-face (in my opinion).
Because her greatness is incorruptible.

I think Last Hope nurses all getting the same shuriken design would make sense since they are all ninja nurses. Ileum getting it would be weird though, since I don't think she's one.
Still, she's an ASG soldier, just like them. Could be explained like that, at least.
Now I want a playable ninja Ileum, thanks.

Like four-leaf clovers for Patty, for example.
Eggs for Easter.
Pumpkin for Hallow.
Bells for Christmas.

Yeah, would be good. Brings in the holiday spirit.
 

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Quick, someone send a memo to Baptiste (Overwatch) and The Medic (Team Fortress 2).

cross3.jpg


Maybe they get away with it because the red cross isn't over a white field?

As for other games that are complying like Valentine, Nurse Joy (Pokémon) comes to mind.

cross-nj.jpg


Just like Val, she had red crosses, then tried color swaps. Ultimately changed to pokéball symbols (gradually becoming more abstract).

Eggs for Easter.
Pumpkin for Hallow.
Bells for Christmas.

Yeah, would be good. Brings in the holiday spirit.
lol that would be too much for me. I'd rather Last Hope all go 4-point shuriken or use the ASG Lab numbers.

- Lab 1 and 2: Research labs which developed technology for the other labs
- Lab 3: Super soldier development
- Lab 4: Handheld weapon and vehicle development
- Lab 5: Specialized weapons
- Lab 6: Theonite research
- Lab 7: Medical/Drug research
- Lab 8: Synthetic parasites
- Lab 0: The secret lab. Research Skullgirl blood

Last Hope came out of Lab 7, but I'm not sure what division Ileum is from.

Ninja nurses are one thing, but shurikens will look strange on Ileum...
 
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Maybe they get away with it because the red cross isn't over a white field?
Yeah, the protection is specifically for a red, equal-sided cross on a white field. Changing either the colour of the cross or the background should technically be enough. It was enough for Marvelous but I guess it wasn't enough for everyone.
 

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I am pretty sure Ileum is just a Lab 8 soldier.
To be honest, I don't think Ileum necessarily needs any sort of logo. A plain white mask might accomplish the same thing, since as-is it's leaning towards a minimalist No-Face from Spirited Away type expression and design.
 
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In that case Val's should have been a heart lol
Indeed!
But heart-shaped shurikens would be very impractical.

To be honest, I don't think Ileum necessarily needs any sort of logo.
Maybe her sigil could replace her crosses? She had a chance to become playable (loosely speaking); maybe she had one in her concepts.
 
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I like the pink, fuchsia was kind of ugly, I know the sprite is just a mock up atm but the shurikens on her legs look a little small? It might just be because the crosses were thicker but on the big artpiece it actually looks fine.

Here's hoping her weapons look more prominent like the old sprite does

LOVE THE PINK BY THE WAY pink is a great color happy for it. It goes well with her other colors much better than fuchsia did

Part of me wishes that she could keep some level of the medical cross but I totally understand making a change like this and this redesign is still reminiscent of Valentine herself so p good. Though I am going to miss that she has cross shurikens because she's a nurse and apparently a weeb (is that right lore-wise?)?

Also for Illeum, maybe she could have hearts since she's also the caretaker of the lab children? It might look silly but I think it fits her role somewhat

The pink is great, good idea on the pink
I like pink
 
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But heart-shaped shurikens would be very impractical.
She can only throw them a few feet anyway. :P

I am pretty sure Ileum is just a Lab 8 soldier.
To be honest, I don't think Ileum necessarily needs any sort of logo.
Agreed. Nothing against the crosses in her design, but there doesn't seem to be any need for them (as far as I'm aware).


I guess this decision will change Valentine's sigil as well?
 
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I guess this decision will change Valentine's sigil as well?
They could probably get a away with Valentine's character icon because it's a yellow cross on a black background, but I think it might get changed just for the sake of keeping continuity with the shuriken.