The Military Science Of Indivisible

[Kai]

Hey, would you like to over-analyze this video game and the weaponry its characters use? Awesome! Post here about literally anything having to do with the actual military science behind the characters and their arsenals.

 

[Kai]

“Real World Weaponry” tier list

The Rules

• disregard all magic/iddhi/etc
• scale down weapons to their closest real world version if the have something impossible about them (a dragon-tail spear would simply be a steel spear, for example)
  
• do not subtract points for having no helmet (facial visibility is a visual design choice, so we can’t criticize their lack of inclusion).

S Tier – firearms beat everything

• Vasco - Would be an absolute killing machine, with a gun that has the ability to fire more than one round before reloading. Also has plate chest armor, preventing many killing blows.
  
• Baozhai - if we grant that a portable cannon of that size were possible, that would make her, like... impossible to beat? How do you beat naval artillery? With the closest real world analog, though, she becomes somewhat less deadly than Vasco, with her only having one shot per load. There's certainly an argument to be made that the unwieldy nature of her weapon could cause her some problems, but a gun's a gun.

A tier – good weapons/armor, no glaring flaws

• George – Plate armor and a spear: it doesn’t get more clean-cut and effective. Aside from a powerful projectile weapon (like a gun, crossbow, or possibly a longbow), nothing is getting through that armor… and you’d probably never get the chance, because of the range of his spear.
  
• Qadira – Looks to be leather braced & studded chain armor, or possibly just studded leather. Either way, the most important part of her ensemble is the sword and shield. In combat, having a shield against somebody that doesn’t is like an ancient cheat code. A strong shield will take you farther than almost any other tool of melee combat.
• Zebei – A skilled shortbowman will get most fighters before they can even get close, so only the most well-armored (or longer-ranged) will be able to even engage him.

B Tier – effective tools, but missing some things

• Dhar - an experienced warrior, with a strong, sharp blade. All good, there, but with an inability to stab, and a lack of substantial armor, he does not have the means to successfully engage S or A tier.
  
• Naga Rider - he appears to have good armor, which, ignoring its magical origins, we might assume to be brass. No weapon, though, so he'd have to beat an opponent to death with his gauntlets... which could actually best a lot of the other characters, but still isn't great.
  
• Phoebe - if we grant that she actualy can fire her spear, that means she had exactly one arrow in her quiver, and then becomes nearly unarmed, though she does have that small blade on her bow as a last resort. Also, the speed at which that arrow could travel would be much lower than an arrow, making it easier to avoid or mitigate in a fight. Still she has a freaking spear, so she's doing pretty well. Negligible armor, though, means she wouldn't be able to stand toe-to-toe with better-protected foes.
  
• Kaldi - ranged weaponry is a huge boon to any combatant, but the actual effectiveness of these blades against armored opponents would be almost nil.
  
• Toko - has shoulder armor, and two swords. Decent, but would falter against armored or ranged opponents.
  
• Antoine - fencing is good, but no armor means he's completely at the mercy of anyone who could take a single blow and respond.

C Tier – real weapons, but not very effective

• Tungar - the urumi is simply not that effective of a weapon. Most rajput opted for the simplicity and battle-tested effectiveness of a sword.
  
• Kushi - a falconer actually could do pretty well in a fight. I mean, imagine trying to fight with that fucking bird in your face, that'd be brutal. Thing is, Kushi herself doesn't appear to have anything else, so beating her is as simple as killing Altun, who has zero defense against any weapon.
  
• Narssus - a scythe is a crap weapon for actual use, simple as that. It's merely a symbolic weapon, and would lose to almost any other real weapon.
  
• Lanshi - a dog that size would be scary as hell, and fairly deadly, but would also be easy to kill if you had a weapon.
  
• Leilani - She's armed, but the shark-tooth paddle is among the worst weapons available. It will lose to pretty much any armor, unfortunately, as it simply does not have the cutting power needed.

D tier – not actual weapons :(

• Razmi
• Thorani
• Yan
• Zahra
• Tenoch
• Nuna
• Tatanka

Spoiler

None of this is a commentary on anything I like or don't like about the game itself, it's just a fun distraction for those that like weaponry and military science :)

 

[Magma442]

Not really Military but Ajna axe when she uses it to climb is simliar to how an Ice Axe is used for mountain climbing and these axes have been used since the Middle Ages.

Fun Fact: an Ice Axe was used to to kill Leon Trotsky in 1940

 

[ACreationist]

Sorry, I've never found ancient weapons particularly interesting. They're all just some variant of sword, axe, or spear.

The Skullgirls lore section is so dead. I'm bored off my ass.

 

[ACreationist]

Fun Fact: an Ice Axe was used to to kill Leon Trotsky in 1940

Really? I thought he was shot.

 

[Magma442]

Really? I thought he was shot.

He was in the foot but what killed him was an Ice Axe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky

 

[hellohello123123]

short theory about Baozhai

her harpoon is tied to her body to catch the recoil of her cannon
ram harpoon into ground/wall, shoot cannon, enjoy not being thrown backwards

 

[Magma442]

More Info: Tungar's weapon is called a Urumi. A ribbon like weapon which originated in South East Asia. The Hilt is usually made from Iron or Brass and is wielded like a flail, however unlike a flail it requires less strength and more agile movement. This weapon is used to deal with multiple opponents and hen not in use was tied around the waist like a belt or sash.

 

[Ninja]

short theory about Baozhai

her harpoon is tied to her body to catch the recoil of her cannon
ram harpoon into ground/wall, shoot cannon, enjoy not being thrown backwards

okay dude. uh science time. If the force of a mini cannon like that was firing from her position and she was tied down the force of that shot would throw her back and then once the rope goes taunt the sudden stopping of momentum would put all of that force into her back where the rope is tied. Effectively she would fire her cannon have a high chance at breaking her spine.

BUT WHO CARE THIS IS VIDEO GAME WE DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PHYSICS AND REAL WORLD STUFF.

ppfffffftttt.... i look into stuff way too much.

 

[Gorilla Blade]

I dont care about historical accuracy(if I did samurais would stop being cool to me) but it's nice to see my boy George near the top.

 

[Kai]

okay dude. uh science time. If the force of a mini cannon like that was firing from her position and she was tied down the force of that shot would throw her back and then once the rope goes taunt the sudden stopping of momentum would put all of that force into her back where the rope is tied. Effectively she would fire her cannon have a high chance at breaking her spine.

BUT WHO CARE THIS IS VIDEO GAME WE DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PHYSICS AND REAL WORLD STUFF.

ppfffffftttt.... i look into stuff way too much.

Well, this thread is exactly for considerations like this :D

 

[Ninja]

eh it would be cool if that was Baozhai's super. She would lit the fuse to her cannon and it would send her flying back but it would also hurt her.

 

[Not-So-Saint]

Well, this thread is exactly for considerations like this :D

Also there's no way in hell for her to reload this thing ever. Phoebe at least can like pile up a heap of spears and shoot those without changing position. Baozhai cannot possibly reload a freaking cannon which is basically out of her arms reach =/
So she is S tier if she can _hit_ you with that one cannonball. Otherwise she only have harpoon. And heavy-ass cannon on her shoulder to hinder her movement. And seemingly no armor. So I'm not sure about that S really.

 

[Kyugetsuki]

Phoebe - if we grant that she actualy can fire her spear, that means she had exactly one arrow in her quiver, and then becomes unarmed.

Why can't she have a quiver that carries multiple spears?

 

[Kai]

Why can't she have a quiver that carries multiple spears?

She could. Also, Dhar could wear armor, Naga Rider could have a sword, and Kushi could carry a crossbow. But they don't.

We can only compare what's actually there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Gamrdogg]

Well I wouldn't really call Pheobe unarmed when she fires the spear since her bow does have the circular blade on it. But her firepower does still decrease dramatically when she does.

 

[Kyugetsuki]

She could. Also, Dhar could wear armor, Naga Rider could have a sword, and Kushi could carry a crossbow. But they don't.

We can only compare what's actually there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh my bad. We're just looking at the images.

 

[Kai]

Well I wouldn't really call Pheobe unarmed when she fires the spear since her bow does have the circular blade on it. But her firepower does still decrease dramatically when she does.

This is a fair point, I'll add that to her line. Doesn't improve her situation a lot, but it's better than nothing.

 

[boboflesserdoom]

Given that the ball used in ulama, the modern version of ōllamaliztli, uses a solid rubber ball of around 7 lbs (3kg), Tenoch has a potentially deadly projectile.
It's not actually a weapon, but it is easily improvised as one. Also, I'd imagine Yan could kick your shit in with those shoes.

EDIT: Are guest characters going to be analyzed too?

 

[Not-So-Saint]

Given that the ball used in ulama, the modern version of ōllamaliztli, uses a solid rubber ball of around 7 lbs (3kg), Tenoch has a potentially deadly projectile.

Yeah. A whole one of those.

Also, I'd imagine Yan could kick your shit in with those shoes.

Mine - probably. Trained swordsman's - hardly.

 

[Kai]

Given that the ball used in ulama, the modern version of ōllamaliztli, uses a solid rubber ball of around 7 lbs (3kg), Tenoch has a potentially deadly projectile.
It's not actually a weapon, but it is easily improvised as one. Also, I'd imagine Yan could kick your shit in with those shoes.

Anything can be an improvised weapon, but those are still pretty poor as far as weapons go, which is why they're down there in D tier :P

EDIT: Are guest characters going to be analyzed too?

Uh, I guess? Most of them aren't based on any real world military technology, so it kind of makes it kind of pointless in the context of this particular discussion. Laser swords, dinosaurs, 20 ft tall automatons, etc.

 

[Ruin]

it's not the weapon wielded, but the skill with which it is wield, or whatever
i wanna kill things with an oud and a chainsaw and hair

 

[The toast]

SOMEONE, FIND ME A SWORD, WITH A GIANT RIBBON AS THE BLADE, THAT HURTS JUST AS MUCH AS A NORMAL SWORD.
ANYONE? ANYONE AT ALL? YEAH THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.

Spoiler

Why are you guys trying to question this shit? I simply went, MEH videogames.

 

[Not-So-Saint]

it's not the weapon wielded, but the skill with which it is wield, or whatever
i wanna kill things with an oud and a chainsaw and hair

That's the problem with urumi. You train your whole life to like not cut yourself with it and then dozen of archers just shoot you in the face.

Why are you guys trying to question this shit? I simply went, MEH videogames.

Because that's what we wanna do. Why are you trying to question us though?

 

[The toast]

Because that's what we wanna do. Why are you trying to question us though?

Touché

 

[Ruin]

That's the problem with urumi. You train your whole life to like not cut yourself with it and then dozen of archers just shoot you in the face

what people with urumi do you know that that has happened to them

 

[Kai]

Look, if you're not here to actually take part in the conversation, take it elsewhere, please.

 

[BallotBoxer]

Baozhai
This pirate faces the same physics problem Cyclops of the X-Men faces: the third law of motion, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." So unless Baozhai doesn't want to be thrown overboard, she'll need light ammunition. (Cyclops gets away with his force beams by having mutant super-strong neck muscles to keep his head, I guess)

I can see Baozhai using the shoulder cannon like a grenade launcher. Load a charge and light the fuse. Since she gets into plenty of naval battles, these types would be useful against an enemy vessel (and the crew):

• Incendiary: burn the wooden boat or the fabric sails
• Flechette: an explosion of pointy projectiles. Shreds sails and sailors alike
• Smoke: comes in all colors to hamper visibility for a raid
• Flare: stun them with a blast of white phosphorus

Just think of all the effects and colors one can achieve with fireworks.

I like the talk earlier in the thread about applications of her harpoon. Anchor for firing maybe, maybe not (ouch my spine). Anchor for the rolling waves on the high seas, more probable. Depending on the length of the rope around her waist, I wonder if she'll try to fire it from her shoulder cannon.