The Road to Becoming a Competent Fraud

[gllt]

give painwheel/robo fortune an assist only move where they fly in and carry you over to peacock

 

[mcpeanuts]

also hornet bomber is the only way I can get in a lot of times and I'm not sure what couch does for me except smack peacock sometimes because I've learned I'm never going to use my optimal assist combos apparently \o/ thinking of switching to the dumb command grab or smth idk i don't see the point of osiris spiral when i'm running hornet bomber because i uhm??
and then divekick is kinda garbage as an assist as far as i can tell

It's all about axe assist, dude

and then sekhmet assists cost so much METER and they're easy to stuff on startup

Don't care, axe assist

 

[gllt]

Spoiler

I've messed with axe before, its funny
I also used it in that set vs Mr Peck

 

[IsaVulpes]

There's probably a lot to be said for this, but as far as my teams go all I really wanna do is throw fireballs, and there aren't that many characters good at throwing fireballs, soooo

When's dropping BB for my team??

idk i don't see the point of osiris spiral when i'm running hornet bomber because i uhm??

M Bomber controls space and gets you in, but isn't very effective at lockdown due to people being able to crouch under it and it generally not being a blockstring and things

Osiris Spiral is *really* good lockdown and hits with the backpart and deals a ton of chip and lifts the opponent in the air which gives you free mixups if you call it midcombo

In general yes, her assists aren't really something to write home about
And her defence sucks
And her DHCs are pretty garbage
.. Is why I think she should run point

 

[mcpeanuts]

When's dropping BB for my team??

idk. Maybe after I feel confident in my Fukua. Learning 2 new characters at once is a bit much.

 

[gllt]

.. Is why I think she should run point

 

[gllt]

<Skarmand> I just liked when you started blocking and pushblocking and calling assists to move into pressure
<Skarmand> Rather than trying to move into pressure at random or any second you had control of your character
<gllt> All I felt like was happening was 'peacock still has pressure and now she's far away again, which is not what i want'
<Skarmand> Well against Peacock sure
<Skarmand> But you were purposley blocking too much
<Skarmand> Then you stopped because it was boring
<Skarmand> And sorta moved into blocking into your regular game
<Skarmand> And then that transition between blocking a lot then taking the good moments to move into your game
<Skarmand> Was spot on
<Skarmand> But it's there!

uploading set now

 

[skull person]

My Painwheel and Bella are bad please help too.

 

[gllt]

My Painwheel and Bella are bad please help too.

I would use fHP outside of incoming, like it's good in neutral too. (For Bella) Also I don't remember any Lock n Loads on point? Maybe my memory is bad.
As for Painwheel, stop getting thrown? And maybe there weren't an opportunities for it, but I don't remember seeing any hatred guard moves being used.

 

[gllt]

Oh and @Skarmand you said you needed a new avatar

 

[Dime]

@gllt


Ive only watched a few of your games. But the overwhelming thing that i seem to see as far as could use some sprucing up, is your constant mistake of approaching halfway. You are primarily from what ive seen, getting outspaced. You are getting baited into going in, and wiffing jumpins or simply jumping towards your opponent... While outside of jumpin range.

This is called "over extending" the version you are doing isnt the typical example of overextending. The typical example would be something like doing dash jump j.hp with parasoul and barely making contact with your j.hp on block... And then landing and having no real mixups to run... Its basically weak pressure that can turn into what you seem to do, which is the far worse version of overextending, which is simply jumping/dash jumping into the spacing that is perfect for your opponent to jump at you... Note that this also means that you would probably wiff that attack that you jumped with.


There are many ways to rectify this, but the most fundamental is to simply slow down a bit and use your own fakes and challenge THEM to overextend... Instead of just you.

Take a very simple pattern such as your opponent does a blocked hitconfirm against you that pushes them away a bit and leaves them at like +0 or -2 ... Lest say that the opponent knows that you will see that as a chance to go in, so they immediately backdash or jump away. While you seeing this as an attack point will jump towards them and throw out an attack... But they jumped away. So you wiff something that you didnt mean to, whereas they get to now react to you wiffing and come in and pressure you.

Its basic footsies stuff to be sure, but not knowing how to handle it, or not knowing that you are succumbing to it, means that you may repeat the pattern agains and again and again, not knowing why you are being beaten so easily.

The way to beat that jump away/be defensive and let you kill yourself strat, is to simply walk forward or dash forward (while not wiffing anything) and taking up space that the opponent gives you... This is called walking the opponent into the corner. Once they see that you have the ability to walk them into the corner... They will lessen up on the defensive strat.


Oh and in case you are thinking "but they are constantly attacking me dime, they arent being defensive" you should look at how you get attacked. You are mostly wiffing stuff and then being attacked... Or you are lingering at the "attack me now pls" spacing (jumpin or dash jumpin) spacing. Neither is a good spacing to linger at. Also when you wiff attacks so much, you are giving the opponent perfect opportunities to attack you since you are leaving yourself open via wiff.

As a rule:

Wiff aerial moves while moving backwards (parasoul j.hp) they protect you and are hard for the opponent to pressure you during since you are moving away

DO NOT wiff moves moves while jumping forward. You wiff to many moves while jumping forward or you simply jump forward trying to get close, not realizing that you are jumping into prime attacking spacing for your opponent.


Also, its ALOT easier to avoid this pitfall if you have some sort of invulnerable assist since you can jump forward into no mans land and still have an invulnerable assist to protect you and launch another try at a dash jump attack (i call this a bridge since you are using your assist like a bridge.

So yeah tldr

Try not to over extend so much.

 

[gllt]

That makes perfect sense. Thank you for explaining that so clearly.

 

[gllt]

me vs Skarmand

 

[gllt]

Sorry for ~triple posting~ but here's some things;

Main team: Eliza/Double/Para, until I learn Eliza vs Peacock, Para/Double/Eliza in that matchup (HSpiral/MBomber/Pillar)
Pocket team: Val/Pea/Bella (HBypass/sHP/HLnL)
Leftovers team: PW/Fukua/Filia (cMP/MClone/Updo)

No BB team because.. I don't enjoy playing BB! Or Fortune. Or Squigly. Sorry.

What I learned today;

What people MEAN when they say 'work on your defense, gllt'
The match with Skarmand took a while to sink it, and I didn't learn everything I needed to learn on the spot, but I learned what I needed to learn. As in, what I should be working on and what it is and means. When people said to work on my defense, I thought they meant to get better at blocking high/low stuff or to do pushblock guarding better.. and I'm sure some of that is true. But by working on defense, what they were really trying to point out was;

Learn what the fuck your options are during wakeup, damn it. Stop walking forward/holding up forward, stop mashing jab/throw. This doesn't work in the real world.
I learned this habit when I THOUGHT I was learning wakeup options and when I say (type) it out loud (in bold?) I already know all that is dumb to do.
It used to be I was the expert as mashing napalm pillar. (Mashing charge moves is PRO) And then I got baited every time and I felt like ass and I got scared of doing it.
(I still try to mash invincible supers and somehow fuck up sometimes though, fml. I also drop DHCs when the opponent also DHCs. Double damn it.)
So during certain matchups or rather, against certain opponents who don't know how to properly deal with me on wakeup, I learned to jab.
Then, I fought real opponents.

And jabbing gets you blown up.

For real though, like, 1/10 times, I'm just trying to pushblock and I'm late as fuck. That does happen. Pushblock baiting is too real.

What else I learned;

The post Dime_x just made -explains so fucking much- for me. In fact, a post he made before is the only reason I know anything about Eliza play now, and now I realize how much in common it has with Parasoul play, I feel dumb. (That's okay!) Upback jHP HELLO. WHY HAVE I BEEN ALWAYS JUMPING FORWARD WITH THAT MOVE. I mean, there's a time and place, and a long time ago I quit doing that because 'Scrub players jump and mash parasoul jHP but parasoul jLP is where it's at' this mentality is horrible. Even I don't agree with it beforehand, but in practice I do. I do not practice what I preach. I realize all normals have a time and place and that is relevant to spacing, but put me in a real match and out comes the jHP/jLP attempts. The only reason I got anywhere in matches recently is I started doing more jLP/Throw and that works sometimes, but it's not playing the neutral game at all, it's just making silly guesses and jumping and stuff, then people like Skarmand call hornet bomber and stay on the ground and I jump and whiff a throw into an assist, eat argus agony, now I'm out again and half dead! I've realized for a while I was braindead with my main but I couldn't put it into specific terms as to how/why. Now I'm starting to see.

I mean, I think I already grasp that when you play Double, you're luring your opponent into making the sort of mistakes I make constantly with Parasoul in order to punish those mistakes, as an opening, because that's where she excels. All she has aside from that is low/throw and some janky left/right stuff and it's hard to, well, open up people with that consistently.

While this is Double's main interest, from what I can tell.. it's an essential part of playing anyone and LOL IM A BLIND FUCK

Is it normal to feel like you're the worst with your main character because it's the easiest to get into bad habits with them?

Anyways, things, blah blah.

 

[Dime]

Here are some patterns that you might be able to use with your Eliza/para/double or para/Eliza/double team:

First of all i dont think Eliza's sek assists are bad at all... They are insanely good actually. The meter for them is a small small price to pay for such powerful assists. However they arent necessarily neutral assists. They are blockstring assists or combo assists or reset assists in my mind and they excel at that. Something you could try with para/Eliza is bla bla blocked confirm into lp or mp tearshot plus sek assist. The tear shouldrotect the assist startup, and the. Sek should lock them down and allow you to go for a high/low mixup on block. Or if the tear doesnt cause enough blockstun for the assist to come in safely, then just do tear plus assist, and then do immediate detonate to keep them in blockstun long enough for m sek to go active. Then run high/low. Or you can call m sek with the detonate. And if the detonate hits in any of that then you probably get a free combo. Meaning that the opponent will want to just down back the entire string after blocking tear... Which could give you dash throw mixups... Etc etc etc just experiment with m sek and dont worry about saving meter. Level 3 is a good tool but is more detrimental to save up for imho. If you simply have it, then cool. But saving up for one isnt a good try imho. Level 3 are more useful as comeback mechanics when youve gotten beat up a bit, or as game enders when youve run a reset train on the opponents team. Other wise you are leaving damage on the board by not killing via level 1 or using level 1's tactically.

 

[gllt]

I admit I'd much rather run Butcher than Spiral.

 

[gllt]

 

[gllt]

set with @Dawn111 its still processing (when I post/posted this)

here's a chat log from after the set, we will have a FT20 tomorrow
I had to stop this set early before I got salty, I can't handle swearing I block right and getting hit or pushblocking and dying for it and I felt like I was learning nothing, so all the fun was being drained out of it

Spoiler

gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: i think the next one is enough for me
Dawn111 is now Online.
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: i get tired of blocking and it not working
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: good games
Dawn111: you sure you don't want to play again?
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: yeah, i'm getting too frustrated
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: i'll just get mad and i have bipolar
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so i might end up suicidal again
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and i don't want that
Dawn111: but you're winning more than last time
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: yes, but im still frustrated
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and i don't feel like im learning anything
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: i only win when you crack and fall apart
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: i'm still losing to the same things
Dawn111: fall apart?
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: yes, you know, when you get antsy near the end of a match and do things that are risky
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and sometimes i win because of that
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but as long as you keep your cool i pretty much get destroyed
Dawn111: When can we play again?
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: maybe tomorrow or later
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I just have to stop when I get frustrated or it gets worse
Dawn111: It's because my mom kept bothering me, which is why I lose.
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: alright, thats understandable
Dawn111: You don't want me to beat you 25 - 0?
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: i don't mind if that happens if I learn something
Dawn111: I mean 25 - 2 or something
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but I'm not learning anything
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: all I learned is if I drop my combo you're going to do BFF
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and fukua's crossup thing is pretty safe
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: also, when I pushblock tick throws
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I just die
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I also have no idea how to properly bait reversals from you most of the time
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I have no idea how to approach Fukua except luck and I really didn't figure out any tactics
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I'd rather just end it here, upload the match and get Skarmand or somebody to watch it and give me advice on the first half of why I'm losing (no idea what to do vs Fukua)
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: the second half is either just netplay or me being bad (can't block simple stuff I swear I'm blocking)
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: like once the MClone assist hit me
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but I was chicken blocking
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but I got hit anyways
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: that makes me frustrated
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: because I don't know what happened
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I didn't even press a button
Dawn111: I still want to play a FT50 with you
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I'm not sure I'm cut out for that right now, can we do a FT20 first at least, not right now but
Dawn111: I don't have anybody to play FT50
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: maybe tomorrow
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: if I can make it through the FT20 and learn some things I'll play a FT50 with you
Dawn111: okay
Dawn111: we'll play FT20 for tomorrow
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Alright, deal
Dawn111: alright
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I just learned I have bipolar 2 and I already have depression and anxiety
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so I have to manage my mood really carefully or it gets out of hand
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I wanted to kill myself 3 times last week
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: It's really hard
Dawn111: yeah it's hard
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I'm taking my meds but I'm gonna talk to my doctor about new ones
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: But it interferes with me having fun with anything
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: including skullgirls
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: When I have an episode, I won't want to do anything but whine
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and then no one likes me
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and I don't want to run everyone away because I'm sad or mad
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Then I wouldn't have anyone to play Skullgirls with when I can enjoy it
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Anyways, my only advice is I'd raw tag as a reversal less, it works sometimes but I did get you for doing it a lot in that set
Dawn111: I should block more when you're about to raw tag Eliza
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Yeah, you should
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: It's sort of like Cerebella tag because it's fast and good
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I wish Double's tag was faster
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: It's really bad
Dawn111: yeah, and I can easily punish Double's raw tag
Dawn111: Remember when I played with you and I got 70 - 19 ?
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I think so, it's been a while
Dawn111: that was before, yeah
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: You play a lot more than me so you've gotten a lot better, I had to take a hiatus when my laptop died
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: then for the first month or so, maybe even two after I got my new PC, I didn't play anybody, I just did training mode
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so everyone is stomping me really badly
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: People say I'm still good and 'work on your defense' but I feel like I struggle with approaching a lot of characters in neutral and that I block okay, and half the time I think I'm blocking right, I get hit, and I don't know how to get better at something I swear I'm already doing right, so it's frustrating
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: So I'm having to balance playing with people more but not playing too much so I don't quit
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Because after a certain point its no fun and when it's no fun I'm also worse at it because I'm upset
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I know a lot more tech and combos than I do in real matches because I haven't learned to integrate them into real play yet and that's sad too
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: But yeah, FT20 tomorrow
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I'll contact you when I see you online and I'm done with chores
Dawn111: alright, sounds good
Dawn111: Sometimes, I struggled to do mixups and blocking, and your Eliza did some resets against me.
Dawn111: I tried to block high against her j.HP, but I blocked too late and got hit.
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: That's probably what happens to me, and I tell everyone 'my reactions are slow' and they say they aren't, but then I block something I see coming, and I still get hi
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: My friend hlvn/hilary says that's just netplay
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Like, none of my friends can block Peacock teleport mixup with H Lock n Load assist that TJGamer does (Evo #2 this year)
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I swear I block it right every time
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but I still get hit
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but hilary played Skarmand offline who does it with napalm pillar
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and he blocked 9/10 of them when he never blocks it online
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I don't want to blame it on netplay
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but I don't want to keep blaming myself either
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: because it feels bad
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I'll just keep trying to find a solution
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: TJ also plays a Duo
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and Peacock gains crazy meter from zoning
Dawn111: I think I'm feeling the same way when I try to block Napalm Pillar
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so he gets in a lock n load reset and then pretty much TODs one of your 3 part teams
Dawn111: I know that TJGamer is one of the few players who plays a duo instead of a trio.
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Our set is uploading and I will give you the link and post it in my training diary as soon as it's done
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: dekillsage played a duo against him during EVO even though he played trio most of the other time
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Sometimes I think that's the smarter idea
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: TJ thinks I'm good and says it's just 'peacock' is the reason I do badly against him
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but I think it's other things too
Dawn111: like Cerebella's mixups and grabs?
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: His Cerebella doesn't scare me too bad
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: that's usually how I end up winning, I mean it's good
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but if I can get past peacock's zoning, which I'm good at with Parasoul, and then stay in and kill Peacock without eating an MBang reversal or a lenny > 360 thing
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: then I usually eat up his Cerebella with my parasoul or eliza
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but his peacock will stop zoning and do the teleport mixup thing that always hits me no matter how hard I try to block
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and you can't reversal it either
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and that's how I always die
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I also choked at the end of a couple of matches vs him and died
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: all he had was low health peacock and I had Eliza and Double with good health and 5 meters
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and I tried to level 3 him with double and I whiffed so I tried to do eliza lvl 3 since I was close and he was otg
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but I whiffed that too
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: then he punished me and killed eliza
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and caught double on incoming and killed her
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and i lost
Dawn111: Maybe with Eliza, you should have summoned Sekhmet after you do j.MK?
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: That's probably a good idea
Dawn111: I know Sekhmet armors out Peacock's zoning.
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: He's really good at throwing though
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: when I play him, I put Parasoul on point instead now, because even though Para vs Peacock is supposed to be hard/bad for Parasoul, I do better with her because I at least know the matchup
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I only put Eliza on point now because IsaVulpes thinks it's smarter and I think he's right
Dawn111: yeah, putting Eliza on point seems like a good idea
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: She has no safe DHCs and bad defense, especially on incoming
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so having her on point with pillar and bomber seems better
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: plus she has good round start options, but not against your team
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I'm not sure what is a good round start option with anyone against Fukua upbacking, throwing a fireball, and sending out Sekhmet's Butcher's Blade assist
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I guess I could try snapping the assist out
Dawn111: I don't think snapping the assist out is a useful method of dealing with the assist, other than double snapping.
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Well, I can't hit it or throw it, but Fukua is running away, and it can eat a snap for free, it costs me a meter, but it would make it so you can't call her again for a bit and she's out of my way and I can actually start running you into the corner
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but then I have to be careful you don't just put me in the corner
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Otherwise all I can do is stand there and let you run away
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and when you're at fullscreen I can't compete with your zoning with anyone on my team
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so I have to rush you down
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and I can't airthrow you half the time because Fukua's jHK or fireball beats it
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so all I can hope for is for you to land and try to pressure me, let me guess right and counter you
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: or go for jLP and hope it hits
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and that's my only strategy
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and when you pressure me, I try to pushblock the tick low/throw mixups and usually pushblock late and die
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: or I eat the throw
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: or I try to throw you and you're doing a command throw so I lose
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: It's really hard
Dawn111: yeah it is
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: that's as parasoul anyways
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: as double and eliza I feel even more helpless
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: because double can't do much to people who are in the air all the time
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: even your moves beat my jHP
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and Eliza is punishable for a lot of her tools
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: like the divekick servant
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: even jMK felt bad against Fukua
Dawn111: Yeah, that divekicking servant can be blocked high you know
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Yeah I do
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: And in the air it doesn't matter how you block, so if you chicken block it because I'm trying to hit you out of the air to get you or at least get you down
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: you'll just punish me
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so I have no idea how to get you out of the air as Eliza
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Also, as Double, a lot of the Double resets you can just doublejump out of or jab
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and you do that a lot
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so I lose there too
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I feel like Parasoul is the only one I can do solid resets with against your team
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but always at the risk of eating a reversal
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and then you spend all your Fukua fireball meter to do a DHC and capitalize off it
Dawn111: lol, yeah
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Hornet bomber is supposed to help me get in, but sekhmet assist and your fireballs keep her out most of the time
Dawn111: and even if you block my Napalm Pillar as a reversal, I can use bikes and make my Napalm Pillar safe
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and I didn't land the spiral assist as a lockdown on you once at all
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: and as Parasoul I haven't found a way to punish pillar/bikes
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I can do it as double I think
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Eliza I'm not sure yet
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: most characters can punish it
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: because there's a gap between pillar and bikes
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Cerebella just does MGR
Dawn111: I know Fukua can punish it with her BFF
Dawn111: Filia can't though, because the bikes can hit Gregor Samson
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Filia can probably just upback to dodge the bikes and jHK/gregor you from there
Dawn111: ahh okay
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: thats how most characters that aren't bella punish pillar/bikes
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: they jump during the gap and then double jump or air dash and punish you before the bikes are gone
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I mean, Double could do car, yeah, but double can also just jump out and do jHP and get a full counterhit combo instead
Dawn111: yeah
Dawn111: and speaking of Double, I've been using j.HP as a jump-in, and I should have been practicing more of her neutrals better
Dawn111: her j.HK is pretty good to keep her opponent away from jumping in against Double
Dawn111: and her j.LK is like Parasoul's jb.LK, but it's forward and has a decent range for a LK
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: Yeah, a standard double tactic is to do jHK, land and do sHP, and then cancel into a luger shot
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: it does a lot of space control
Dawn111: I should try to use s.HP + luger shot more when I play as Double
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I didn't do it in that set because I would just eat a Fukua fireball/shadow from the vulnerable box on sHP
Dawn111: yeah, good choice for not doing that against Fukua
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I should also just sLP out of your clone resets but I always fail to do it, but if you called sekhmet during them it would be hard/impossible to do anything but block them (especially in the corner)
Dawn111: yeah, sekhmet has her good overhead resets like her j.MP, s.HP after her j.LP
Dawn111: I learned crossing up with Sekhmet's j.LP after I watched guitalex play, and Sekhmet can do j.MP on reverse
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: I do jHP when I cross up with it
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: if you jump neutral/backwards a bit, you can fake it so it doesn't cross up
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so it becomes a left/right (although not a great one)
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: or a sort of frame trap but no one should press buttons against sekhmet anyways
Dawn111: lol, yeah
Dawn111: you know as playing Eliza, if people don't know how to play against her, they don't realize that they should not press any buttons when they see Sekhmet coming
Dawn111: when I see them mashing, my Sekhmet can just be like "Here, I'm still comboing you!"
Dawn111: Sekhmet is like "the first" character (parasite rather) who has like an unlimited armor
Dawn111: and she can even tech throws when her opponent is about to throw her
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: yeah, Bella has it on diamonds are forever and that's it
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: she can't tech throws
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: she has no throw tech animation
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: she can counter them with the axe though if you try to throw because it goes in the air
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: so its a throw whiff punish
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: but she can't tech throws at all
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: she has no animation for it
Dawn111: ahh
Dawn111: I thought that she can tech throws
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: nope
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: thats why some people think about running a throw assist with sekhmet
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: then the assist can tech the throw
Dawn111: because when I played an Eliza mirror, I grabbed sekhmet, and she tech throw me
Dawn111: threw*
Dawn111: gosh, I have no one to play with in Endless Beta
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: its not supposed to be possible, maybe something else happened
Dawn111: also, if I want my Eliza to get better, I should realize that I could do j.HP, and use adc and do j.MP, j.HP
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: yeah, upback jHP controls a lot of space, then air dash cancelling it into anything you want really
Dawn111: that's one thing I learned for using Eliza today
Dawn111: and I think I've been using dashing j.MK too much when I played her
gllt [ASG] #PunkIsDad: It's a good tool but it can definitely get blown up
Dawn111: when I should be using her j.HP sometimes

I'm keeping this log for reference so that I can get opinions and also remember what I learned.. if anything, from the set.

 

[gllt]

@Skarmand @IsaVulpes @severine Can I please solicit some advice on the above set/matchup?

 

[skull person]

@Skarmand @IsaVulpes @severine Can I please solicit some advice on the above set/matchup?

Did you check with Dawn if it was okay to post this or not, he really doesn't like people posting videos of him playing.

I will change this to advice after I watch it.

 

[gllt]

Did you check with Dawn if it was okay to post this or not, he really doesn't like people posting videos of him playing.

I will change this to advice after I watch it.

Dawn said it was okay.

 

[gllt]

arcade mode run with outside input display on, the best I could find that works with my stick (padlight does not, do not talk to me about padlight, do not, don't, stop, go away)

still processing when i posted this

i have a headache, i'm.. i don't know. might just go outside for a while. i'm stressed.

 

[Dime]

@gllt

My data plan is getting low and my home internet is wonky right now so i cant watch that many vids... But i did watch some of your arcade run.

I have 1 suggestion and 1 piece of advice:

You weren't converting mk bomber even in easy to convert places such as when near a corner, and you tend to call mk bomber point blank and as an empty jumpin.

Mk bomber IS the better version of bomber, but ONLY IF THE OPPONENT CAN PUSHBLOCK AUTOGUARD CONSISTENTLY. If they cant... Then use lk bomber instead because it shits all over mk bomber in just about every facet.

The way you use mk bomber it seems like lk bomber would be a much better try. You get a confirm that Eliza can take advantage of, and you get a lockdown that Eliza can do high/low patterns off of on block. So basically simply making contact with lk bomber kinda becomes a win condition. Aka they contact your bomber... You win. So to speak. If after playing around with lk bomber you want to switch back to mk bomber then you will still have a had valuable bomber confirm experience and it may help you with confirming mk bomber.

Also, your current bomber pickup strat with Eliza may be lacking. While this advice is totally theory fighter, maybe try picking up long range bomber confirms with dash>mp dp xx hp dp idk whether this is a good try or not... But it may be worth looking into, the same way that doing dash lk buer pickup with painwheel is usually better than dash cr.lk pickup.

So the second piece of advice is to try and vary your Eliza jumpin strings a bit more. Currently you are using j.hp airdash j.lk,j.hp as an all around confirm/pressure string.



This is really good because that string is really good... But it isnt the only string that Eliza possesses by a long shot. Maybe try instant jump j.lk airdash j.lk,j.hp
Or variations of that string. The Eliza's that i play with are very random with their air block strings and this is very hard to play against because you dont know how much time you have to pushblock her out. J.hp gives a lot of blockstun and is very easy to pushblock and thus setup a pbgc attempt. Or simply a successful pushblock if the j.hp was a long range one. But, if Eliza used j.lk instead, then the blockstun is much shorter and its much harder to pushblock consistently and Eliza inadvertently frame traps with her airdash or gets crazy crossups that are faster than come from j.hp variants. And finally, if you do jump in at close range with j.hp... Simply land and throw the opponent or go into a low. The opponent expecting a prolonged high string will will block high the entire time and get easily opened by the throw or the low.


Your Eliza definitely has the making of a good one. Your use of that first pressure string i named is a good reason for that, but you need to start mixing it up more.


And finally, i watched a bit of your set against skarmand. You started to beat his pw and he switched. But you could have made him switch much sooner by using some j.mk airdash j.hk variants. The j.hk cause a hard knockdown iirc and allows Eliza to continue ground pressure via a high/low oki game that is disgusting. And j.hk has ridiculous range , good damage and high priority against anything ranged air to air... Its very anti flight. So use it against pw flight neutrals.


Hope some of that helps...I'm going to try to get some of the Eliza's i play against on vid soon.

 

[Hilary]

You've kinda gone back and forth on whether you want to be really serious competitively or casual, and if you decide on being casual, disregard all of this. Have fun with the game any way you feel is best. <3

Spoiler

- You know your execution issues like dropped combos or resets better than I will, so I can't really comment on those.

- Without padlight showing me which direction you're blocking (or mashing) I can't really get a mixup pattern going on what you were trying to do when you got hit by things. I know you're working on it though.

Outside of that, a few general things:

- Don't throw away doublesnap opportunities, ever. If your routes don't allow you to confirm a happy birthday and adjust the route during the first chain, you need to find a new route or practice your confirms with the dummy on random for a while.

- If you can safely jab an assist for the extra lockout when they make a bad call, do it. If it's a really awful call and you can put more damage into it, cool, but you don't have to blow it up, the highest/simplest priority is always touching it.

- Be more mindful of your assist's positioning and the enemy assist's timer/lockout. If you watch these videos yourself and recognize a situation where you called your assist but couldn't protect it from their point due to spacing concerns or a counter-call, you need to isolate what causes the urge to call an assist there and eliminate it. Most of the time it's nerves or a bad read on their spacing that you just need to chill on.

- Try to react faster when their assist whiffs while you and their point are in close proximity (in the Dawn set, whiffed pillars mostly). Any time this happens, it's almost always time to either go in immediately/directly with your point, or shortly after calling your horizontal assist once it's got their assist in hitstun and their point in blockstun.

- Raw tags. You know I will support you being crazy and unconventional for the sake of strategically surprising people, but the unconventional needs to be an extension of fundamentals in order to work. Combos, resets, neutral risks are all okay, but unless you have both a read and an extremely specific setup or reason to do it, the raw tags have to go.

 

[drewski]

I can't even really analyze my own play, let alone someone else's, but I can weigh in on the whole netplay topic.

I feel like we've all played this game so much that it's silly not to think we have a good feel for even super minute things like the hitstop of every move for every character. But then you get some rollbacks or skipped frames and some crazy dissonant shit comes in your head and it gets really hard to concentrate after that. Things are kind of unfamiliar all of a sudden and personally even a minor skip just wrecks my current mindset, then I get hit by that airdash j.mp that I should have blocked and rgjrgjn.

Local play is way more consistent, barring weird $15 glitches. There is no questioning whether or not it was your fault, because it always is. Makes things way less stressful and allows more room for learning. Also you can yuck it up with the guy sitting next to you lol.



launch > delay superjump > airthrow is dumb and only works because it looks like the game is lagging.

 

[gllt]

uploading/processing take your set im out

 

[gllt]

Been streaming and playing FF12 and it really mellowed me out. Did some research and reading the last few days, remembered why I love games.

After another FF12 streaming session tonight (est. 3hrs~) I might do some private labbing with the team under my name.

I'll keep it short and sweet as to why. Or I was going to, then I added this onto the sentence because I wrote a book.

Val has great overall matchups. She does well on point. Her mobility is excellent. I think with her I can penetrate the defenses of runaway teams much more easily. I won't feel as afraid against Fukua as long as I learn not to press buttons against MClone when I'm in the air. Should make beating jHK > Dart an easier task for me. Relatively good at getting in on Peacock, even though I don't consider myself having huge issues with the Peacock matchup even with Parasoul, but it's something you always need to consider. Combo extension assists in the point slot don't feel so terrible because they're a bonus if you end up tagging/DHCing to someone else rather than a hindrance from the start of the match in neutral, and Parasoul loves the extra damage from HBypass combos because it means she doesn't need to do as many risky mixups (until I learn to bait better), they're extremely easy to pull off and do in real matches, unlike some other combo extension stuff, they have multiple places they can be slid in, they set up a slew of resets, and they can even be used to push someone away on block for a zoning game. Extra damage for Bella is just a sick, disgusting icing on the cake because Bella already has damage. Also allows for those neat confirms off a lot of things like Diamond Drop midscreen, but I'll have to practice a lot to get good at them. I need to work on resetting less and doing lots of damage into possible oki more. Val and Bella are good at these things with each other. A lot of her resets don't involved crossing under like Parasoul and Double do, leaving them susceptible to falling light normals and stuff like that, which are a problem for me earlier in matches when my opponent has no respect for me. She has excellent options. I feel comfortable with her combos on all characters. I can improvise with her quite well. Her tag is actually very good. sHK can help me disperse things from a distance and throwing a green vial in neutral might help with the runaway defense breaking attempts and screwing with the opponent's assists by hitting them with it. Going to test hitting Sekhmet assists with a vial to see if it's worth it. Poison doesn't care about scaling, this could help in 3v2 matchups to help even the field of damage distribution, especially with hard hitting assists to enforce it, like HLnL, which is what the duo teams I'm facing are using to ruin my day anyways. Now I can play that game too.

Para is my main girl, DHC to bikes isn't.. the worst. DHC to level 3 is good if I somehow build that much meter with Val. Pillar is really good. This isn't her best spot, but I want the DHC to bikes even if it means having Para second and risking her being in the bad situation on incoming due to limited options. Going to explore using Val to penetrate defenses and ruin the opponent's point+assist game so I can bring Parasoul in to exploit their limited options, which is ironic considering the above statement. Fair trade? Gives Val a reversal she desperately needs even though level 2 is already godlike and I believe in it. She can use HLnL in combos if need be, and even though I'm not a fan of them or good at them, I had some realizations about where to slip them in, and they will help make a lot of my resets safer/scarier which is one of my problems right now. I get the damage from Bypass, so HLnL will provide neutral assistance (in that it can help me approach and countercall effectively) and if Bypass is gone, I can still do damaging combos to help ensure kills. It also sets up decent resets and, as I said, enforces the effectiveness of my resets and approaches.

Bella has really good neutral. Equivalent to Parasoul's in my opinion in overall matchup spread, though neither of them have the excellent spread Val has. I feel where Parasoul is weak, Cerebella excels. Easy to tag in, meaning I can bring her in early in the game if I feel like I need to. H Lock n Load is not my favorite assist, but it's an excellent tool for Val and Parasoul when it comes to locking people down and it's a great assist in neutral.. It's also an excellent alpha counter. I no longer feel the need to learn horns combos, they do not feel necessary to me at all. The single BnB and some alt strings I can throw in for setups as well as a few alt BnBs (Pillar BnB, HBypass BnB) and the oki setups from fHP are more than enough. She can reflect projectiles and I need this. She can do crossthrough shenanigans with feint, meaning I don't lose that by dropping Double. I can do feint with pillar. Feint into a command grab/low mix up is effective in certain situations and I have lots of setups/points for doing a feint/kanchou. Resets with HBypass are more interesting than you think. Pillar will help make some setups safer. Disgusting damage. I need to ensure more kills. Bella can help me do this whether she is on the field or not.

Making the appropriate swap, this means my pocket team is now..

Eliza/Pea/Double. Not gonna write the book like above, gonna make this brief. I hope.

Eliza on point because it's safest. HSpiral as my assist for if/when I tag her out/DHC. She has a fun and great neutral game. sHP will give her a lockdown/projectile and LBomber or MBomber. I'll figure this out later. Thinking LBomber because it will act as a reversal and she's already good at getting in from a distance without needing MBomber to get her in, and even though it isn't much better of a reversal then MBang, it's still a better reversal than MBang. MBang assist.. nah. sHP is really good and I'll roll with it or try boxcar or something. DHC to Lenny for escapes and Argus for damage/death. Slaughter > Lenny is cool and I should learn a combo off it. Calling LBomber as Sekhmet in neutral.. might do something? People love mashing throw when they see her now. sHP, dunno, we'll see.

If Eliza dies, I get to play Pea/Double which is pretty good. Also, gives Pea LBomber which might work out okay. Willing to give it a shot. We'll just zone. If Eliza isn't dead, I can rush down pretty effectively with HSpiral probably as my lockdown, oh and, the chip on spiral is nice. Just make it a game of chip, yeah? Teleport with HSpiral might not be bad, no idea. Peacock has all the damage, I just need to learn the combos. That will require my own effort and time. Calling spiral lets me do a crossunder item drop mixup during a combo pretty much at any time I want. sHP is a really good alpha counter.

Double gets all that fun meter leftover from Peacock and functions well without it if Eliza spent all the meter on Sekhmet. Minus the risk of being PBGCd, I get to play Strider/Doom if Eliza is alive, sort of, and call catheads and do flesh step + Spiral and do massive (and dirty) amounts of chip while pretty severely limiting my opponent's options. sHP also works well with flesh step. Spiral may help cover the whole 'falling lights ruin my crossunder game, fuck' thing. LBomber might be a really good alpha counter.

Tagging to Double with Eliza is brainless. Tagging to Eliza with anyone is brainless. Tagging to Peacock in the corner with Eliza is brainless. DHCing to Lenny from Slaughter in the corner brainless. Backwards car into Slaughter punishes a lot of Peacock air backdash shenanigans. Backwards car into Lenny to run away. Etc, etc.

Leftovers team is still PW/Fukua/Filia because it works well (cMP/MClone/Updo)
Still not playing Squig, Fortune, or Band
Feeling better about a new character being on a pocket team until I'm more comfortable with her and she's done being ironed out, since some of that will still possibly happen even after her release.

OK shower and FF12 stream time. Have fun possibly giggling at me for how salty I get and how often I quit this game and come right back, or whatever it is you people do when you look at my thread.

Still going to try and take it easy and balance SG with other things (FF12, Runescape) and not play long sets if they're STRESSFUL until I get some proper medication for my disorder and get my mood under control. It will be hard as it always has been and always will be. Part of growing as a person. I have a lot of useful things to learn from competitive SG when it comes to what type of person I am. (INTP, if you believe in that sort of thing. Scorpio, also.) And it might help me get over my fear of not being in control which is when and where I crack and by working through that I will become a better player.

 

[IsaVulpes]

gonna make this brief.

Man this is like, Dime_X brief.

 

[Hilary]

Have fun possibly giggling at me for how salty I get and how often I quit this game and come right back, or whatever it is you people do when you look at my thread.

Nah. People are more important than games.

Still going to try and take it easy and ... and not play long sets if they're STRESSFUL until I get some proper medication for my disorder and get my mood under control. It will be hard as it always has been and always will be. Part of growing as a person. I have a lot of useful things to learn from competitive SG when it comes to what type of person I am.

Please focus on this more than anything else.

 

[gllt]

You have no idea how calm and relaxed FF12 makes me. I am the most at peace I've been in ages. Doing chores and shiz right now but after, FF12 stream: session four. Today, I do my burning bow run. Which I already have a head start on from getting a burning bow by luck at the very end of session 3 last night.

It has a 1% chance of dropping from an enemy way above my level.

 

[gllt]

 

[gllt]

Had some awesome sets with fenster and drewski, will upload tonight (if I don't forget) and post them so we can all analyze

things happen that made me go

 

[gllt]

Audio muted because copyrighted music, even though it's never happened before. COOL

rip videos

@fenster @drewski

EDIT: bonus points: no one can view it even though youtube muted the audio track, so I have to do the music replacement thing now so yeah

EDIT: double bonus points, videos are too long to replace with youtube's audio replacement method or something, won't even offer me the option, deleting these uploads, removing audio track from my raw copies, reuploading. why.

EDIT:

 

[drewski]

I am having so much fun watching these sets

 

[gllt]

Okay, absymal... ABYSMAL QUALITY.. IMMENSE SADNESS. But they're uploading. I've learned my lesson about playing music during fights. At least copyrighted music. So.

Here's a screenshot while you wait. Ever traded a Divekick with LExtend sound stun?

 

[gllt]

@drewski @fenster

let's try this again, sorry again for abysmal quality, made a rushy/bad decision about re-encoding when I was tired. 2 hours of sleep is bad for you. sorry for no audio. :x

Got an SNES music collection started, never getting bopped by youtube again.

 

[gllt]

uploading a set of me vs fenster just now

had a lot of fun playing my pocket team (eliza/double/squigly)
had a lot of fun playing my other pocket team (pw/fukua/filia)
had a.. little fun playing my main team, but IMO, did my worst (fenster had obviously also warmed up by then and switched to solo para from bb/para) and in the end I just... I want to drop Parasoul. Badly. :( Like, a lot. I have no idea what I'm doing with this chick at all.

Played Pea/Band/Bella for the last few rounds to see if I liked it in case I do..

I had a good time but.. I'm sad. I might drop her until Beowulf comes out and just play the Eliza team as my main team for a while. Or even the PW team. :x
Even if I lose, at least I feel like I know what I'm doing with them? I feel so fucking clueless with Para. Only slightly less clueless with Val. I have a much better idea of what I'm doing with Bella and I felt like she carried the team.

Seriously sadboys. Every character I grow to like, I'm bad at and end up not having fun with or wanting to play anymore. (Fortune, Parasoul, Valentine)
It's not even about the wins, it's just the feeling of 'I am not growing, I am not learning.' It's so depressing. It kills my mood and before I know it, I'm not even able to focus on the set, my eyes take too long wandering at undizzy and health instead of glancing, I look at mixups and don't react anymore.. I can't even mash supers on time. :x

Like, it takes a toll on me mentally to lose with Para or Val. It doesn't with my other teams. It's just 'oh, I lost, hey I should've done that, okay next round!' and with Para or Val it's 'I have no fucking clue. Play again....'

 

[gllt]

Here's the set, it's still uploading/processing but YouTube will give me the link to embed anyways. Check back later @fenster

Beginning to think I should just..

Team Defenseless Eliza/Double/Squigly
Team Y Painwheel/Fukua/Filia
Team Damage Pea/Band/Bella
Team I Suck At Skullgirls Val/Para/Fortune
Team Wannabe Animals Beowulf/Robo Fortune

 

[drewski]

I went through something really similar with Filia back when BB was released, and was convinced I was never really gonna play her again. I've recently picked her up again and after shaking the rust off I felt she was stronger than ever. Taking a break from a character might be a good idea.

EDIT:

Ever traded a Divekick with LExtend sound stun?

That was c.hp stun :D

 

[gllt]