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Throws & Throw Techs

GrunkleBarlowe

GrunkleBarlowe

Formerly Dolfy
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Ms. Fortune Squigly Double
I've been talking about Throws/Throw techs with a lot of different players lately. From who I've talked to at NEC & at the last cencal tournament, there seem to be a lot of players (myself included) who feel that the throw tech window is very unforgiving. I was curious about how other members of the community felt, since Throws seem like something that isn't discussed very often.

EDIT: Since Arcana asked, I will go ahead and compile throw tech windows from other games I know of. Keep in mind that every game is paced differently and some require forward+button instead of being two frames. I do, however, think that there is value in comparison.

2 Frames: Guilty Gear (1 Button Grab)
7 Frames: Marvel 3 (1 Button Grab)
12 Frames: Street Fighter 4 (Varies by a few characters)
13 Frames: Skullgirls, Super Turbo (1 Button Grab)
14 Frames: Under Night In-Birth
15 Frames: Blazblue
16 Frames: Persona 4 Arena
 
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It's incredibly large imo. Too damn long if you ask me.
 
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how many frames is it in relation to other fighters?
 
Well, I think throw techs are supposed to be a read.

At the very least you need to know that the throw is going to be one of the options they will chose in the next mix up so you can increase your reaction time.

When I first started I thought throws were bullshit, especially since you couldn't throw while crouching.
But now I find a lot of people don't throw anyways because of the throw scaling, unless it's a character like Double (Who needs those throws, so it's good that they're hard to tech)

I mean if you go for a throw you get less damage and you start building Undizzy right away.
If you go for the 50/50 cross over with a heavy like Filia, you're rewarded with bonus damage (Even more if you just called LnL), it's much safer and leads to more pressure, and maybe even scores you a CH for +100+ Undizzy in your combo.

So, 13 Frames to tech off a read is fine by me and I find it's always better to eat a throw than to get counter hit trying to tech by /\9 JHK [Filia/Fukua] / /\9 JHP [Bella] / IAD JNormal [Others] which leads to 10k as opposed to 4-5k.

Just my 2c.


EDIT: It's really 14 frames in UNIEL? I thought it was closer to 2 months.
 
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Uniel throw tech window is huge if you're in blockstun or w/e and your opponent tries to throw you. Otherwise it feels the same as SG.
I can't really tech grabs in either on reaction, I usually just read it.
 
Now that throw tech+pushblock OS has been removed, a strict throw tech window isn't necessary for SG anymore. There are already lots of ways to blow up a whiffed throw tech HARD, defense in SG doesn't need to be made any weaker.
 
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All I know is I never see anybody ever tech throws at tourneys. Seriously, there were like, 3 tech'd throws in all of UFGT top 16 last year, lol
 
For your list: Tekken games have a 14 frame tech window for throws.
 
Night Phyre said:
All I know is I never see anybody ever tech throws at tourneys. Seriously, there were like, 3 tech'd throws in all of UFGT top 16 last year, lol
There's just as much wrong blocks on overheads and cross up underhead lowverheads though.
It just means they're going for throws when a throw is good, don't think it needs to be adjusted though.
 
YussaTampon said:
For your list: Tekken games have a 14 frame tech window for throws.

For Tekken throw techs, you have to keep in mind that due to throws 12f startup and massive tell, the 12 start up + 14f tech window means that anyone good at tekken can break throws on reaction 90% of the time. Because of that nature, I don't think they should be added on the list.

I also don't think VF5's throw tech window should be added to the list either, because throw techs can be buffered, but throws are more of an invisible 3-way mixup due to multiple tech directions.

It might be best if it kept to 2D fighters where there is only basic one throw to do, and one throw to tech.
 
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Pls god no. "Reactionary" throw techs are one of the worst possible design implementations in any fighting game ever. Ive been teching throws since vanilla with ease. Heres what you do:

Guess your opponent is going to throw you from their throw pattern.. And then mash throw tech.. Or if they are REALLY THAT PREDICTABLE dont mash, just tech.. Its super easy.

Oh, your mashed or timed tech attempt got burst baited or low mixed up? Welcome to true fighting game mixups. I really dont see the problem.

And you can always use skarmands low/throw break fuzzyguard like what magicman uses.
 
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I kinda wish there was some sort of thing that said you were grabbed like Persona and BlazBlue have
 
Arcana said:
I kinda wish there was some sort of thing that said you were grabbed like Persona and BlazBlue have
You probably wouldn't be able to react to it anyways unless you made the read.
We have counter throw flashes though which is all you really need to determine if you fucked up or it just wasn't a techable throw.
 
Pretty sure that ignoring frameskip doesn't work here
ST has frameskip 1 or 2 which kinda reduces the window..

Techs are just where they should be imo, you get them when you expect a throw and that's it.
A longer tech window brings sillier block>delaytech OSes moreso than anything else
 
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Is this including throw srartup in SG because throw startup techs throws.

It use to be a lot smaller. Its fine since no crouch tech. If it was to be changed, it should be smaller.
 
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Yeah, i actually think they should be smaller, alot smaller, given the fact that they give scaling on hit plus extra meter to the opponent, plus the timing os that is available which is nothing but a stupid arbitrary execution barrier.
 
YussaTampon said:
For your list: Tekken games have a 14 frame tech window for throws.

there's also three different techs that you have to condition yourself to react to.

depending on the game, some individual command throws have smaller or larger windows as well.

SG's throw tech feels about right. For the most part I'd rather it be on the unforgiving side than the weak-as-fuck UNIEL side where throws are really a non-factor most of the time.

I'm a little confused about side-swaps on some airthrow techs, but whatever.
 
I think sg throw techs have a pretty big window since I have reacted to some throw mixups correctly. But I also really like it the way it is, you have to be on your toes all the time. It's not like it's easy to tech and I like being rewarded for good reactions.
 
Night Phyre said:
All I know is I never see anybody ever tech throws at tourneys. Seriously, there were like, 3 tech'd throws in all of UFGT top 16 last year, lol
Well, I personally remember teching 2 or 3 throws in my match vs Wing Zero at NEC15 (despite being #2TURNT on Ginger Ale). Which I'm just now realizing was never uploaded to Youtube by KPB, and the archive has been deleted. Which I'm sorta upset by.
 
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I might just be playing tricks on myself, but I'm finding throws way easier to tech on PS3 then on PC retail. Maybe it's just because of online vs offline play.


I still feel like I run into situations where I'm tapping throw fairly quickly in anticipation but not able to get it out.
 
I get thrown a lot in situations where I absolutely know the opponent is going to go for a throw and I attempt to tech, but fail. Sometimes I'm just too slow, but a lot of the time I'm pretty sure it's just online play. I don't have that problem nearly as often when playing offline and I know how to tech properly when I'm anticipating a throw. I also think that the throw tech window is perfectly fine as it currently is, it's just a little bit frustrating when playing online imho. I wouldn't change anything about it.
 
Dolfinh said:
I still feel like I run into situations where I'm tapping throw fairly quickly in anticipation but not able to get it out.


THAT is strange, assuming you mean not able to get out throw techs. In the 2+ years of playing sg on ps3/360/pc ive never come up with a situation where i teched and it didnt come out.

I have been in plenty of situations where i teched late and didnt get it, of course, but not where i didnt get a tech at all even though i was mashing inputs during the tech window. Are you sure that you arent maybe slightly holding downback on accident?

I mean that could be the situation, or it could be that you are mashing tech to late, which is always a possibility. Mashing tech doesnt make your tech any faster it just makes it so that you flood the tech window with inputs in case any werent executed correctly and to cover a large amount of time rather than just a small amount of time.
 
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Yeah I think if throws are further nerfed by increasing the tech window Double is going to have a really bad time, along with characters who have slower overhead options like Squigly and Painwheel.
 
Dime_x said:
. Are you sure that you arent maybe slightly holding downback on accident?
This actually could very easily be the case. I have a really hard time keeping track of where my stick is and often end up blocking the incorrect way or move it to a different spot without noticing.
 
Throw techs are fine the way they are imo.
 
What I hate is trying to throw tech close to the ground but getting grabbed when I land by a ground throw.
 
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Yep. You get +2f landing recovery when you're in recovery for a move and touch the ground.

Ouch
 
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