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Alright this is going to be pretty long so I'm gonna separate these topics to the best of my ability. Sorry if it seems jumbled. Umbrella is a character that has people very divided on what to do with. I think a lot of people have a problem with the way she is now (both umbrella and non-umbrella players) and I'm going to propose a few changes that I feel are fair to suggest. Theres a few different categories so please take all of them into consideration.
Assists:
Umbrella's assist pool at it's current state is extremely underwhelming. She has 3 realistic options to pick from. 6HP, salt grinder, and hungern rush. Right now I'll only be discussing assist properties of these moves but i'll touch on them later on point. These three assists turn into one assist if you dont play a resource character. Hungern rush as an assist pales in comparison to some of the other dp assists in the game, especially to the ones frequently seen today (i.e. annie, big band). Hunggern rush is not a good assist for a dp but it's generally just not a very good dp so i'll leave that one alone for now. 6HP and salt grinder are fine in their own merit as they do what they're designed to do, but one is a resource building and damage assist with no other function. If you want a strike assist that does anything from not point blank you Have to pick 6hp. This genuinely sucks because umbrellas move set has some really cool moves that are just not good as assists. Therefore i will propose these changes for moves as assists only.
5MP: Please make this move do both hits lol. Like it's right there I don't see whats wrong with giving her a lockdown assist. I feel like it would be good to just try out in beta eventually. If it's too strong then fine but I don't see it being a big problem assist.
6HP: I think we should get the option to have the charged versions of 6hp. It doesnt make sense to me why pea can have lvl 3 item drop but umbrella cant charge her 6hp.
Wish maker: Make this move go farther as an assist, but to compensate make it move faster. A slow moving full screen projectile that hitgrabs into a capture state for 3 billion frames is crazy, I understand. I feel like this issue can be mitigated by the fact that it moves faster across the screen, leaving it about the same time on the screen as now but with a farther distance travelled. I don't think this is too crazy to ask for considering umbrellas strongest option for a projectile assist right now is l bubble, whcih works great in her kit, but not so well as an assist. I'm willing to hear people out on this one because wish maker going farther sounds scary, but i feel like it can be balanced. maybe even make the capture state less long on assist hit. Just something to think about. Wish maker going farther right now with how slow it moves would be nightmare world but i feel like with the proper adjustments it can be made ito a balanced, not necessarily full screen projectile. (this is all in reference to the satiated version btw i think stuffed wish maker and rav is fine).
Slurp and Slide: I feel like this move should be great as an assist but it has no helpful properties that would make it.... helpful. There would be a couple ways to go about this. The obvious one here is armor. I wouldn't know the specific hits of armor i'd like on each version (rav should have a maximum of 1 ngl) but i feel like it wouldn't break the game to give her an armor lariat assist (there's already 2). Another suggestion I heard was giving slurp n slide strike invuln startup. This would NOT extend into the active frames so you wouldn't have to worry about a full screen invincible lariat assist, but it would offer an extra use to that assist. With both versions suggested there would clearly need to be some adjustments to the recovery so she isnt plus with an armor move and then leaves, and these changes would not effect the ac versions of sns, but i feel like a simple buff like either of these would make this unused assist a bit more useful
Normals: A lot of people have some very strong opinions on umbrellas normals, so i have some suggestions on how to balance them out.
jMP: Getting this one out of the way, i think the hitbox and the ioh aspect of this move are completely fine. I feel that these are necessary parts of her kit that make her a functioning character. However, the damage she gets off of this damage is insane. With the right assist, you can easily deal of 12k by hitting someone with this. Not to mention that she gets solo meter positive two touches if her second touch starts with this normal. Therefore, I think that it should get the bella jhp treatment: .750 scaling on any combo that starts with this move. It would be a pretty big nerf considering 1) this is her only mixup overhead, and 2) it's her main air to air tool, leaving any stray hits she gets from neutral scaled immediately, but the risk reward of this move as a mixup normal is skewed way too heavily in umbrellas favor. If there's a way to see if it hit overhead then apply scaling and if not, dont, i feel like that would be better for umbrella than just removing 1.0 scaling from it entirely, but if we're gonna have a normal that does almost everything for umbrella, it cant also be the main source of her damage. Something has to go. (I will say that if jmp does go as her main punish tool another air normal should probably fill this spot but thats mainly me lamenting my 12k corner routes)
2MP: Another normal a lot of people have a problem with. I personally think this normal is fine. The only thing i would nerf about ravenous version is make it have more recovery so it isn't as easy to whiff it in neutral considering its 2 char lengths wide and 10f startup, but other than that i think it is a fine button that lets her execute her silly little game plan.
2LP: I think the only proble w this button is that it's more plus than the startup frames. +6 on a 4 frame normal might be a little too OD but honestly, i think it's fine. I can be persuaded either way.
2MK: Another button I dont really see a problem with. It's def just a button that is a part of her defensive kit and it's not like theres no counterplay (you can airthrow her lmfao). I don't feel like this button is worth complaining about.
Sweep: Now this button is fucking crazy. It's an insane blockstring tool, opens up crazy frame traps, looks way more minus than it actually is, IT LETS YOU OTG, and naturally ticks into her command throw. I think the tick into throw has to go LOL. That's so stupid for no reason esp when she already has crazy tick throw pressure. This is one of if not the best sweep in the game and it does way too many things. I'm honestly okay either way with this one bc i don't use that tick throw a lot anymore (scrub mixup ngl) but if it did get removed i would not miss it.
5HK: Longer punish window so people stop COMPLAINING. Please don't change anything else about this move LOL my kara mixups NEED it they're so cool </3.
5HP: PLEASE MAKE THE REFLECT HITBOX BETTER AND GIVE THE 2F OF PROJECTILE INVULN BACK PLEEAAASEEE
Specials: I think umbrella specials are mostly fine as they all contribute a decent amount to her game plan without being too overwhelming. Just to be sure tho I'll go over some specials ppl might have a problem w, as well as some i would like to see buffed.
SnS: This move is fine LOL. There is counterplay, I've had it done to me, this move is not as brain dead as people are lead to believe. SnS is a good move for umbrellas kit and it works well within her kit and i think thats why people don't like it? (advancing plus on block lariat is frustrating i get it) . I still think this move is fine and an integral part of her pressure. (Pls fix the pb glitch please). (Also add proj invuln to satiated slurp so the pea mathcup is playable w/o meter)
Rush: I want the hitbox to be bigger PLEASE LOL. This thing whiffs in places it probably shouldn't and then i have to look at my character land into her demise. Tbf, with experience, I whiff this move less and less, but I think it would be nice for it to hit in places it prob should but doesn't. (also give rising unblockable to the assist!!! jk unless)
Ptooie: I'm not concerned w the projectile itself i think it's okay, the thing I'd like to address w this move is the starving to rav part. This is actually stupid LOL. I think umbrella should be able to exit starving w ptooie. However, i think that if you do it with ptooie, you should be put in satiated. Not round start satiated, but satiated at 2 pips, where rav is actually unavailable for a few seconds. If grab moves are used to get out of starving, then rav should be granted back, but just going full screen and getting rav again is a LITTLE stupid.
Supers: I think her supers are fine. The only thing I would like to see is the inputs for contact lens and reflector to not share PP. The amount of accidental dp supers gotten in crucial moments against zoners is disheartening. Other than that I think her supers are fine.
This is a list of proposed changes. I don't think that all of these should be implemented at once but should be experimented with and based on those experiments come up with the best version of the character for people playing her and playing against her. I'm sure i missed something so just ask about anything if you're unsure. I have to get to class now so I'm wrapping this up. Go easy on me lmfao.
Assists:
Umbrella's assist pool at it's current state is extremely underwhelming. She has 3 realistic options to pick from. 6HP, salt grinder, and hungern rush. Right now I'll only be discussing assist properties of these moves but i'll touch on them later on point. These three assists turn into one assist if you dont play a resource character. Hungern rush as an assist pales in comparison to some of the other dp assists in the game, especially to the ones frequently seen today (i.e. annie, big band). Hunggern rush is not a good assist for a dp but it's generally just not a very good dp so i'll leave that one alone for now. 6HP and salt grinder are fine in their own merit as they do what they're designed to do, but one is a resource building and damage assist with no other function. If you want a strike assist that does anything from not point blank you Have to pick 6hp. This genuinely sucks because umbrellas move set has some really cool moves that are just not good as assists. Therefore i will propose these changes for moves as assists only.
5MP: Please make this move do both hits lol. Like it's right there I don't see whats wrong with giving her a lockdown assist. I feel like it would be good to just try out in beta eventually. If it's too strong then fine but I don't see it being a big problem assist.
6HP: I think we should get the option to have the charged versions of 6hp. It doesnt make sense to me why pea can have lvl 3 item drop but umbrella cant charge her 6hp.
Wish maker: Make this move go farther as an assist, but to compensate make it move faster. A slow moving full screen projectile that hitgrabs into a capture state for 3 billion frames is crazy, I understand. I feel like this issue can be mitigated by the fact that it moves faster across the screen, leaving it about the same time on the screen as now but with a farther distance travelled. I don't think this is too crazy to ask for considering umbrellas strongest option for a projectile assist right now is l bubble, whcih works great in her kit, but not so well as an assist. I'm willing to hear people out on this one because wish maker going farther sounds scary, but i feel like it can be balanced. maybe even make the capture state less long on assist hit. Just something to think about. Wish maker going farther right now with how slow it moves would be nightmare world but i feel like with the proper adjustments it can be made ito a balanced, not necessarily full screen projectile. (this is all in reference to the satiated version btw i think stuffed wish maker and rav is fine).
Slurp and Slide: I feel like this move should be great as an assist but it has no helpful properties that would make it.... helpful. There would be a couple ways to go about this. The obvious one here is armor. I wouldn't know the specific hits of armor i'd like on each version (rav should have a maximum of 1 ngl) but i feel like it wouldn't break the game to give her an armor lariat assist (there's already 2). Another suggestion I heard was giving slurp n slide strike invuln startup. This would NOT extend into the active frames so you wouldn't have to worry about a full screen invincible lariat assist, but it would offer an extra use to that assist. With both versions suggested there would clearly need to be some adjustments to the recovery so she isnt plus with an armor move and then leaves, and these changes would not effect the ac versions of sns, but i feel like a simple buff like either of these would make this unused assist a bit more useful
Normals: A lot of people have some very strong opinions on umbrellas normals, so i have some suggestions on how to balance them out.
jMP: Getting this one out of the way, i think the hitbox and the ioh aspect of this move are completely fine. I feel that these are necessary parts of her kit that make her a functioning character. However, the damage she gets off of this damage is insane. With the right assist, you can easily deal of 12k by hitting someone with this. Not to mention that she gets solo meter positive two touches if her second touch starts with this normal. Therefore, I think that it should get the bella jhp treatment: .750 scaling on any combo that starts with this move. It would be a pretty big nerf considering 1) this is her only mixup overhead, and 2) it's her main air to air tool, leaving any stray hits she gets from neutral scaled immediately, but the risk reward of this move as a mixup normal is skewed way too heavily in umbrellas favor. If there's a way to see if it hit overhead then apply scaling and if not, dont, i feel like that would be better for umbrella than just removing 1.0 scaling from it entirely, but if we're gonna have a normal that does almost everything for umbrella, it cant also be the main source of her damage. Something has to go. (I will say that if jmp does go as her main punish tool another air normal should probably fill this spot but thats mainly me lamenting my 12k corner routes)
2MP: Another normal a lot of people have a problem with. I personally think this normal is fine. The only thing i would nerf about ravenous version is make it have more recovery so it isn't as easy to whiff it in neutral considering its 2 char lengths wide and 10f startup, but other than that i think it is a fine button that lets her execute her silly little game plan.
2LP: I think the only proble w this button is that it's more plus than the startup frames. +6 on a 4 frame normal might be a little too OD but honestly, i think it's fine. I can be persuaded either way.
2MK: Another button I dont really see a problem with. It's def just a button that is a part of her defensive kit and it's not like theres no counterplay (you can airthrow her lmfao). I don't feel like this button is worth complaining about.
Sweep: Now this button is fucking crazy. It's an insane blockstring tool, opens up crazy frame traps, looks way more minus than it actually is, IT LETS YOU OTG, and naturally ticks into her command throw. I think the tick into throw has to go LOL. That's so stupid for no reason esp when she already has crazy tick throw pressure. This is one of if not the best sweep in the game and it does way too many things. I'm honestly okay either way with this one bc i don't use that tick throw a lot anymore (scrub mixup ngl) but if it did get removed i would not miss it.
5HK: Longer punish window so people stop COMPLAINING. Please don't change anything else about this move LOL my kara mixups NEED it they're so cool </3.
5HP: PLEASE MAKE THE REFLECT HITBOX BETTER AND GIVE THE 2F OF PROJECTILE INVULN BACK PLEEAAASEEE
Specials: I think umbrella specials are mostly fine as they all contribute a decent amount to her game plan without being too overwhelming. Just to be sure tho I'll go over some specials ppl might have a problem w, as well as some i would like to see buffed.
SnS: This move is fine LOL. There is counterplay, I've had it done to me, this move is not as brain dead as people are lead to believe. SnS is a good move for umbrellas kit and it works well within her kit and i think thats why people don't like it? (advancing plus on block lariat is frustrating i get it) . I still think this move is fine and an integral part of her pressure. (Pls fix the pb glitch please). (Also add proj invuln to satiated slurp so the pea mathcup is playable w/o meter)
Rush: I want the hitbox to be bigger PLEASE LOL. This thing whiffs in places it probably shouldn't and then i have to look at my character land into her demise. Tbf, with experience, I whiff this move less and less, but I think it would be nice for it to hit in places it prob should but doesn't. (also give rising unblockable to the assist!!! jk unless)
Ptooie: I'm not concerned w the projectile itself i think it's okay, the thing I'd like to address w this move is the starving to rav part. This is actually stupid LOL. I think umbrella should be able to exit starving w ptooie. However, i think that if you do it with ptooie, you should be put in satiated. Not round start satiated, but satiated at 2 pips, where rav is actually unavailable for a few seconds. If grab moves are used to get out of starving, then rav should be granted back, but just going full screen and getting rav again is a LITTLE stupid.
Supers: I think her supers are fine. The only thing I would like to see is the inputs for contact lens and reflector to not share PP. The amount of accidental dp supers gotten in crucial moments against zoners is disheartening. Other than that I think her supers are fine.
This is a list of proposed changes. I don't think that all of these should be implemented at once but should be experimented with and based on those experiments come up with the best version of the character for people playing her and playing against her. I'm sure i missed something so just ask about anything if you're unsure. I have to get to class now so I'm wrapping this up. Go easy on me lmfao.
