Unable to call assist with Painwheel in certain conditions

[ClarenceMage]

There are a couple conditions that I can reliably reproduce that prevent me from using an assist as Painwheel

1. Valentine air throw scalpels DHC Hatred install. I can't call assist with Val during her air throw(also bug?), but when I land with val in the followup combo I'm able to use assist in the combo on the ground. If I dhc into hatred install, I cannot call assist in my followup combo.

2. Painwheel assist starter combo, restand s.HP fly j.6MK uncombo, I can't call assist when the opponent exits s.HP's hitstun even though they're not in the same combo. For some reason I remember being able to use this before but weirdly it's not working now.

 

[Mike_Z]

- Nobody should be able to call assist during their airthrow...? But should be able to call it during the recovery if you didn't superjump. I'll check that. Though if you do the super input early, you don't go through any frames where assist is allowed, and Val generally wants to do the super as fast as possible.

- If you DHC (or tag) and a projectile from the previous point hits after the DHC, it counts as an assist hitting because they were not point when the projectile hit, so your assist is used up. This is true for all projectiles, and especially easy with scalpels and bikes. (MvC2 works the same way, for the same reason, hee hee.)

- Indeed, it seems not to make assists available again if you have a 1f reset. Good catch! This is true in retail though, so it's been true for a while...

 

[ClarenceMage]

- Nobody should be able to call assist during their airthrow...?

I worded what I said weirdly, and after a little testing I found out why I was confused:

I thought that ground throws and air throws worked the same way in regards to canceling them into Special+Assist. Ms Fortune's, Filias, etc ground throws you can cancel with a special input with assist buttons and you'll get special + assist (most notably Ms fortune Rekka + Cerecopter for corner conversion). However, apparently you can't do the same with air throws. Is this difference between ground and air throws intended?

If you DHC (or tag) and a projectile from the previous point hits after the DHC, it counts as an assist hitting because they were not point when the projectile hit, so your assist is used up.

That seems odd. Do you think it should stay that way? It feels a counter intuitive to me that a super projectile hit after you DHC'd so therefore a completely different mechanic is locked away.

 

[Mike_Z]

I worded what I said weirdly, and after a little testing I found out why I was confused:
I thought that ground throws and air throws worked the same way in regards to canceling them into Special+Assist. Ms Fortune's, Filias, etc ground throws you can cancel with a special input with assist buttons and you'll get special + assist (most notably Ms fortune Rekka + Cerecopter for corner conversion). However, apparently you can't do the same with air throws. Is this difference between ground and air throws intended?

{voice for talking to little kids, since I already said this}
Throw startup -> grab animation -> release enemy -> throw recovery.
Throw recovery is special-cancellable and should not lock assist calls, so as long as you are not in a superjump you can call assists during that part of the animation. Which is why you can do special/super + assist and get it after airthrows also - try Filia. Except I apparently only did it for some characters' airthrows, which I said might be the case.

That seems odd. Do you think it should stay that way?

Yes, I do. If I didn't, it wouldn't be that way, and it has been that way since the beginning on purpose. See below.

It feels a counter intuitive to me that a super projectile hit after you DHC'd so therefore a completely different mechanic is locked away.

It isn't a completely different mechanic. Think about it like this: If anything owned by a not-point character makes contact, you have hit with an assist, therefore you can no longer use assists.
Not only is this method pretty much the only way to code such a thing to guarantee that all possible cases of wrongly allowing assists are caught, but if you like thought experiments, any special cases you add can lead to situations that allow fairly large exploits.

 

[WayForger]

Edit: My bad. Sorry @ClarenceMage