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UNDERTALE; A wacky throwback for EARTHBOUND/MOTHER fans!

I have only done neutral and true ending, what is the punishment?
 
From what I've heard
By doing No Mercy, your save file is forever tainted.
If you do the Pacifist Ending after No Mercy, the end result is different, with the implications that your character is possessed and murders all the characters you just befriended
 
Jutsei said:
From what I've heard
By doing No Mercy, your save file is forever tainted.
If you do the Pacifist Ending after No Mercy, the end result is different, with the implications that your character is possessed and murders all the characters you just befriended
Awww. I like to get all the endings in games I play but that is honestly just silly. If they had a way to erase your save file to remove this I wouldn't mind, but that is annoying.
 
I believe there IS a way to erase your data permanently, via manually altering the games save file in the programs file, but imo it's not worth it since the genocide route is pretty nasty anyway. The coolest parts you can watch on Youtube. I wouldn't bother.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
but imo it's not worth it since the genocide route is pretty nasty anyway.
That is the reason I want to play it.
 
why not just turn off steam cloud for undertale and do whatever route you wanted to do? you can remove your save file in appdata/local the game can't read files that don't exist

I've been doing stuff like that because

gaster is lost somewhere in all the undertale data it's been really cool learning about him
 
Squire Grooktook said:
I believe there IS a way to erase your data permanently, via manually altering the games save file in the programs file, but imo it's not worth it since the genocide route is pretty nasty anyway. The coolest parts you can watch on Youtube. I wouldn't bother.
THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF TOO FAR JESUS CHRIST.
Yeah, just watching on youtube.
Call me a wimp all you want game, I'm playing only once.
I'm not a sociopath
 
Jutsei said:
Call me a wimp all you want game, I'm playing only once.

Damn, that only reminds me of the guilt trip the game gives you if you restart after the best ending. Minor thing in comparison to the genocide bullshit.

It's ironic, because "art" isn't something your supposed to experience once. Ideally you revisit it every now and then and see how your experience of it changes with time.
 
It's pretty fantastical, yeah, but it sucks for people like me who like multiple endings.
But oh well, I'll take my neutral and pacifist ending and fuck off.

I do find it funny that they saw this coming
Because apparently, in game, someone calls you a "sicko" for looking up the Genocide Route on Youtube, and not having the guts to do it yourself
 
I was originally pretty turned off by the visuals of the game and hearing "it's like earthbound" made me want to play it even less. I enjoyed Earthbound and played through Mother 3, and I didn't feel like playing a game that would be riding on its coat-tails. A friend offered to buy me the game if I would try it.

Holy s***

I can say this game is better than Earthbound. Easily one of my favorite games of this year. It's hardly anything like Earthbound outside of aesthetics and charm. The combat was a lot more interesting and I enjoyed going into pretty much every fight. The dialogue had me grinning like an idiot throughout most of my playthrough so far.

Don't be like me, try the game.
 
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This game is the only game other than Mother 3 that has successfully made me cry at the end.

Manly tears/10 best game
 
Pacifist End is the only game end to be so......................Sunshine-ny that it rivaled P4's true golden end.

I actually thought that was impossible.

Also, I don't really understand how people are interpreting what happens to Flowery.

DETERMINATION prevails, right?

Asriel is for sure getting his physical form back with enough determination

@Squire Grooktook art is a lot of things.

I remember when a lot of the smaller Zoo York wall doings were getting cleaned up back in NY and a ton of the people who did it didn't mind. I know I didn't mind when my groups stuff was painted over.

Art is a lot of things, some of it tries to be eternal, some of it understands it's timeline and comes to terms with it, and some of it tries to defy time by having it be fleeting.

A experience that you can only have once and is different for everyone sounds great.

Should everything be like that? No, but there is a place for something like it.
 
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iLoli said:
A experience that you can only have once and is different for everyone sounds great.

Should everything be like that? No, but there is a place for something like it.

Simply put? I disagree.

The only reason not to revisit something is because you're scared it won't be as good as you remembered or thought it was. And that's not a very good reason.

And honestly, Undertale is neither of the two things you describe in this quote snippet. It's simply a combination of well written story and fun gameplay that doesn't even need its fourth wall breaking elements to stand on its own. I think it would stand the test of time.
 
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Squire Grooktook said:
Simply put? I disagree.

The only reason not to revisit something is because you're scared it won't be as good as you remembered or thought it was. And that's not a very good reason.

And honestly, Undertale is neither of the two things you describe in this quote snippet. It's simply a combination of well written story and fun gameplay that doesn't even need its fourth wall breaking elements to stand on its own. I think it would stand the test of time.
You disagree that all types of art have a place in the world or that art shouldn't be that?

I think Toby wanted your actions to have some weight to them, and if you ever wanted to undo what you did, you should need a little DETERMINATION.

No ending is ever fully cut off from you, it just depends on how much DETERMINATION you're willing to use.

Some art doesn't last forever, and some artists prefer it that way.

I know I prefer my things to say their piece and move on.
 
iLoli said:
You disagree that all types of art have a place in the world or that art shouldn't be that?

I disagree that "you should only experience it once" is valid reasoning or allows something to be exempted from criticism. If it's good, it'll stay good, or possibly become better. If it's bad, then you'll know the truth when you revisit it. Rejecting the possibility of re-exploring it with additional growth is just limiting yourself and limiting the work.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
I disagree that "you should only experience it once" is valid reasoning or allows something to be exempted from criticism. If it's good, it'll stay good. If it's bad, then you'll know the truth when you revisit it. Rejecting the possibility of re-exploring it with additional growth is just limiting yourself and limiting the work.

It doesn't exempt itself from anything, it just asks you to take responsibility for your actions.

This might become two different conversations.

One will be about Undertale and it's save discussion.

Another one will be about how art works.

I think we should stick to the former for the sake of the thread.


Undertale lets you play the game however you want, whenever you want, however many times you want, you just have to take a little responsibility for what you've done.

Quick Tidbit though, good and bad can change, unless you're purposely looking through the lenses of that timeline.

I'm sure if I was around during Civil Rights, I would love TKAMB, that's precisely why it became great, same with A Rasin in the Sun, but because TKAMB doesn't really apply to me along with Lee Harpers writer style feeling stale, I think it's crap. I also don't believe there is such thing as a "classic" or "timeless", I believe that there is work that is broad in it's theme enough for any generation feasible to get it, but even then that's kind of subjective.
 
iLoli said:
It doesn't exempt itself from anything, it just asks you to take responsibility for your actions.

I was speaking generally.

I would go into how I feel about good and bad, but I don't want to go that far.

I'll just say that I find the fourth wall breaking elements of Undertale to be the weakest part of the story, straining the suspension of disbelief in an otherwise very well written fairy tale. I also find a game attempting any kind of "responsibility" or "morality simulation" to be inherently absurd. But that's just me.

Of course, anyone is free to play the game how they feel is best. Subjective taste and all that.
 
"Inherently absurd", such as in not possible ever?

Those are some strong lines.

I believe that without the appearance of this "Meta" plot the game would have been average at best, and a lot of the game's stronger moments wouldn't exist.
 
iLoli said:
"Inherently absurd", such as in not possible ever?

Pretty much. I think any attempt at "simulating morality" is ham-stringed by the fact that it's not real (and other things like the fact that all games can't follow the rules of reality perfectly). No matter how much a game tells you your a monster or a saint for doing x, y, and z, never will either ever be true. It's a story, always will be a story, and I think a story should be appreciated for being a story.

As for meta elements, I simply dislike them in general. I find (in general) they make it harder to empathize with characters and make a world feel more fabricated. But that's a personal thing.
 
I personally feel that with enough immersion comes empathy, or at least while immersed, not a noticeable difference for a little while.

I don't think a game has ever tried to simulate morality, just make you question yours.

But if I have your opinion correct, that too is impossible?
 
Again, it should be noted that I'm speaking very generally. Not necessarily only about Undertale.

iLoli said:
I personally feel that with enough immersion comes empathy, or at least while immersed, not a noticeable difference for a little while.

Yes empathy is definitely a thing. To an extent of course. But...

iLoli said:
...just make you question yours.

But if I have your opinion correct, that too is impossible?

Impossible? Wrong word maybe. More like silly and nonsensical. The choices you make in a game -that's not real- can never in any way be equivalent to real life choices. Especially when game logic doesn't follow real world logic. A game can't judge you without being stupid IMO. Hence "take responsibility for your actions" - no thanks.

A story's themes can make you question your beliefs etc., but when you start trying to use "interactivity" and all that shit that comes with video games to try and exceed the limits of fiction, you're just on a short road to nowhere.
 
These maybe stories, but there are real people with their real life experiences behind these stories.

Sure, the choices you make in a video game don't matter practically, but as long as you hesitated and thought about outside applications the writers did their job.

With Undertale, as long as you play within the rules of the game, you do literally have to take responsibility for your actions, if you want to delete the files in the registry, you can, but you can also argue that when you play a game, you agree to a certain set of rules.
 
iLoli said:
These maybe stories, but there are real people with their real life experiences behind these stories.

Sure, the choices you make in a video game don't matter practically, but as long as you hesitated and thought about outside applications the writers did their job.

Yes, that's fair enough. That falls into the context of storytelling. Storytelling is fine, it's just that with the new frontier of interactivity within video games, I think people need to remember that story, characters, writing, is what's important. When people start telling each-other "don't restart the game, you need to take responsibility for your actions!" as if it's reality and not a story to be digested at your leisure, your descending into pure silliness. It's not real man holy shit.

To put it in the context of another medium:

"Don't stop reading the book now! You need to finish it up or you'll lose track of all the feels" -valid suggestion

"Don't reread the book, you'll be reversing everyone's happy endings!" -all I can do is laugh


That being said, the actual thing you get told in game for restarting after pacifist isn't that bad. Novel joke I guess. But I don't find any value in meta plot elements beyond novelty. But that's the realm of personal taste/opinion.
 
I think it's okay to constrict yourself to rules the video game presents you, as long as you're having fun, like Nuzlocke, etc.

Telling someone else how to play a video game is the same as telling someone how to digest a medium, and that's silly.
 
iLoli said:
I think it's okay to constrict yourself to rules the video game presents you, as long as you're having fun, like Nuzlocke, etc.

Telling someone else how to play a video game is the same as telling someone how to digest a medium, and that's silly.

Yes, definitely. However you want to play is totally fine. If you want to imagine it's all real and play without restarting, that's fine (hell, "imagining it's real" is why I don't like meta plot elements: it basically tells you explicitly that it's not real). I have heard some fans say some really silly stuff though (ie long threads and arguments breaking out over whether it's bad to restart or not).
 
iLoli said:
Spoiler Part


Asriel lost his soul and souls are what hold determination so he reverts into a flower and you know that because when you open the game after a perfect pacifist ending he warns you not to reset the game as Flowey. Flowey or Asriel is just a souless person whose dust happened to be on a flower from the surface and it was injected with determination which somehow got his dust mixed with the flower now holding his personality. The only reason he got his child form back was because of all the souls he had absorbed which he gave back after breaking the barrier so he no longer has the power to sustain that form.

And just a random tidbit but like father like son Asriel(Flowey) is really bad at coming up with names too.
 
Stuff said:
Asriel lost his soul and souls are what hold determination so he reverts into a flower and you know that because when you open the game after a perfect pacifist ending he warns you not to reset the game as Flowey. Flowey or Asriel is just a souless person whose dust happened to be on a flower from the surface and it was injected with determination which somehow got his dust mixed with the flower now holding his personality. The only reason he got his child form back was because of all the souls he had absorbed which he gave back after breaking the barrier so he no longer has the power to sustain that form.

And just a random tidbit but like father like son Asriel(Flowey) is really bad at coming up with names too.
Yeah, and if this game wasn't TTGL'ing it up I would totally buy that.
 
I just finished this. I got the neutral ending. I'm planning on playing this again for the pacifist end when I get a chance.
Wow. This has been a rollercoaster. This is easily one of my favorite games I've ever played.

I usually really hate the "oh, your game is broken and it crashed, but oh no it is some spooky character who did it", but I feel like it worked really well here. The Flowey thing caught me off guard, and the subsequent boss fight was fantastic. For the most part I liked all of the characters with the exception of Alphys (she was VERY grating imo), and sometimes Sans (I usually hate these kinds of characters, but here it was bearable). I loved the various monster designs (Asgore and Undyne in particular I really liked), the story was fantastic, the characters were great, etc.

The fact that damage is avoidable works very well with the "befriending the monsters" aspect of the game, as you aren't forced to take damage during your enemy's turn that you're too squishy to handle. One thing I didn't like was the final boss fight (Asgore, not Flowey). I was out of money from the fight in the spider den, so I wasn't able to buy healing items. His fight was much too difficult without them, so it just felt very unfair.

I also wish I saw more of Toriel. It bothered me that the entire game her number is on your phone, but you never actually see her or talk to her again. I would've liked something along the lines of a final call to her before the boss fight, but oh well.

A lot of the humor fell flat and hard on me. I smiled and even laughed at a good portion of it, but a lot of times I simply sat there thinking it was a bit silly. There was also a bit too much "quirkiness" for me, but not enough to cause actual problems. Overall, I really enjoyed it and would recommend it to anyone.
 
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Jutsei said:
THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF TOO FAR JESUS CHRIST.
Yeah, just watching on youtube.
Call me a wimp all you want game, I'm playing only once.
I'm not a sociopath
There is ways to back up your saves and delete nasty genocide stuff, but yeah, thats the point.
Look at this way: You got the best possible ending. You befriended everyone and refused to kill, and got one of the best and happiest endings in any game ever. And yet, you want to erase it all. Reset everything, undoing all your progress...just to kill them all. Why? Because you can. And because you can, you "have to". Your still thinking about this game as simply a game and not a journey. That makes you the ultimate monster. So no, you dont get the happy ending ever again. You had your chance. You were warned multiple times. And now you pay the price.
 
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CountofBleck said:
There is ways to back up your saves and delete nasty genocide stuff, but yeah, thats the point.
Look at this way: You got the best possible ending. You befriended everyone and refused to kill, and got one of the best and happiest endings in any game ever. And yet, you want to erase it all. Reset everything, undoing all your progress...just to kill them all. Why? Because you can. And because you can, you "have to". Your still thinking about this game as simply a game and not a journey. That makes you the ultimate monster. So no, you dont get the happy ending ever again. You had your chance. You were warned multiple times. And now you pay the price.
Sans warned you.

"Try to keep playing human for a little longer."

"Do you feel that even the worst person can have a second chance?"

"You're going to have a bad time."

I was just in it for the fighting, got to Megalovania and barely won after a too many tries to count, then after I did peaced out and restarted.

Probably a reason Fox didn't make the final boss an exciting one in Genocide, if he did, the cutscene would play right afterwards, but he let you fight Undyne and Sans then peace the fuck out after those fights with no consequences. If you went all the way to the end, well you deserve it.
 
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@iLoli That is a good point. You can still get the best parts of the Genocide Run without much more than a broken heart (if you still have one at that point) and maybe a snarky reference to it once or twice on your next run-through, if you just don't reach the actual ending.

That kinda makes sense to me. I would argue that the last actions you commit in the Genocide Run (right after the last real boss fight) are the darkest actions in the entire playthrough. That is a very strong statement, given what you've been doing before it, but context from the True Ending makes one of those actions REALLY messed up.

If you go actually continue after the final real boss and do those things, I have even less sympathy than I do for the person who stops after the boss fight.
 
It's the grindy-est of runs but I'd say the cool boss fights make it worth it. Although having a bad time doesn't go without consequences.
 
Stuff said:
It's the grindy-est of runs but I'd say the cool boss fights make it worth it. Although having a bad time doesn't go without consequences.
Just peace out after you've had your fill of bad time.

Props to the heroes who pushed through and saw the end.
 
RemiKz said:
I was originally pretty turned off by the visuals of the game and hearing "it's like earthbound" made me want to play it even less. I enjoyed Earthbound and played through Mother 3, and I didn't feel like playing a game that would be riding on its coat-tails. A friend offered to buy me the game if I would try it.

Holy s***

I can say this game is better than Earthbound. Easily one of my favorite games of this year. It's hardly anything like Earthbound outside of aesthetics and charm. The combat was a lot more interesting and I enjoyed going into pretty much every fight. The dialogue had me grinning like an idiot throughout most of my playthrough so far.

Don't be like me, try the game.
Just out of curiosity how could someone have pitched the game to you in a way that you would have found more appealing? I've been mostly telling people "it's kinda like Earthbound".
 
mcpeanuts said:
Just out of curiosity how could someone have pitched the game to you in a way that you would have found more appealing? I've been mostly telling people "it's kinda like Earthbound".
I thought about it myself, and it's honestly rather hard to describe. I tell people it has the charm of earthbound but doesn't really play like it. The combat in earthbound feels super dated to me and the sort of bullet hell system in undertale was a really fun change of pace for me in what I assumed would be a typical turn based RPG. Also having all the unique interactions with every enemy made me actually look forward to random encounters instead of typically being like "I hope something doesn't spring up on me because I just want to keep moving forward".
 
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I ended up playing the game in one, clean, one runtrhough last night, did Neutral and decided to do Pacifist another night because by the time I finished it was 3:30 AM
WHAT KIND OF A HELLISH NIGHTMARESCAPE WAS OMEGA FLOWEY JESUS CHRIST
 
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My exact reaction the first time I saw the fucking Lovecraftian Horror that is Final Boss Flowey:
photo.jpg
 
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