GrunkleBarlowe
Formerly Dolfy
I can agree with this. They need to have flow/interesting mechanics to keep them interesting. It's one of the reasons why I vastly prefer Genesis Sonic games over the old marios. Also genesis does what nintendont
I can agree with this. They need to have flow/interesting mechanics to keep them interesting. It's one of the reasons why I vastly prefer Genesis Sonic games over the old marios. Also genesis does what nintendont
Personally, I think that absolutely nothing matches the sheer depth of characterization that can be found in books. Not that games, movies, and short stories can't have good characters/character development, but IMO not on quite the same level in terms of depth as the all time great works of literature.
I'm not saying that those boundaries don't exist, because if they didn't everything would be a game. I'm pretty sure the chair I'm sitting on now is not a game.This is a bit too extreme for me. While I try to keep an open mind, I feel there should be some boundaries. I know there are many grey areas that are somewhat subjective, but at the same time I feel it's necessary to set at least some basic parameters for things that are definitely, definitely not games (while at the same time, respecting other peoples opinions). For example, I personally don't consider the microsoft word/power point examples in your post as games. Yes they are interactive, but they are meant purely for utility unlike every other form of art. They are examples of craft, not art. Now that's my own personal opinion, and you can disrespect it, but I'm not going to acknowledge those examples as games.
Don't entirely get why you still don't understand, but this is going in circles so I'm probably just going to dismiss this if you reply with the same thing again.But reason X might not apply to all visual novels, let alone games. Not to mention you haven't defined what X is in the particular VN. Maybe it's a VN with litter ally no choice whatsoever and the only thing you're doing is pressing a button to advance text. You do the same thing on a Nook or for a motion comic.
I have to say, "interactivity point" made me crack up. It's like I said before; how do you measure interactivity? That's kind of key to this statement. Is one interactivity point one choice? If that's true, does the choice of whether or not to pick up this cup make it a game? Is it one choice per minute? If so, where does that leave a turn based strategy game where one player is simply thinking out his or her next move?
Absolutely; if something is trying to be a game, or at least has a large number of people who consider it a game, saying it's not a game is definitely an insult. Whether or not that's a well-founded insult is the fuzzy part.This does not discredit the "thing" in question. I'm sure there are plenty of visual novel addicts out there who consider them (some of them, vn's can be very different from eachother, from what I've seen. Hence case by case basis...) simply a form of manga and not a video game, but still greatly cherish them for what they are. You seem to be convinced that saying something isn't a video game is inherently an indictment, as if nobody should be allowed to make that thing or enjoy it, but this is an unfounded assumption. Some people might use "it's not a game it has no gameplay" as indictments of particular games they actively dislike, but that doesn't mean that everyone who have some sort boundary on what they define as a video game inhernetly dislikes things that don't meet those qualifications.
It's not silly, it's a pretty important question. But, for clarification:
It's still pushing them to the margins simply because they don't want to play them. Yes, experimental games are niche, but even the people who don't play them should be able to identify them as games. It's not that I'm trying to tell these people to really get into story based and experimental games, I just want to be able to coexist in the same medium as them, preferably without constant complaints about needing to get out.Look, I understand your concern, but your starting to sound all "I MUST CRUSADE AGAINST THE BRO ARMY TO STOP THEM FROM RUINING GAMING", people not liking these genres or games aren't going to kill them. Most experimental shit is niche, in all mediums. Most of the experimental stuff in games are probably going to follow suit. But there will always be a demand, so whether people define them as games or not isn't going to stop them from being made.
Absolutely; there's something to be said about academic discussions about the meaning of a game.Hell, these debates have been going on for centuries in every other medium. If you look back in art history, their are tons of professional classical painters arguing about what "real" painting is or what the boundary between art and random shit is. Their still arguing about it today, and they probably always will be arguing about it. This is not some unique problem killing the video game industry.
Those are fine too, of course.
I can remember stage 1-1 vividly, really only because it's super iconic and referenced all the time.
Just look on steam for an artsy game and browse it's forums for a while, you'll understand plenty.Part of this I think is that you seem to have a different context for these sorts of things. I've never met anyone who had a problem with visual novels or games like Proteus, so I'm not getting the whole hate mail/these games shouldn't be made thing. I'm not seeing any "gaming police", at most there are some people who think artsy experimental games are stupid, but than there are lots of people who think artsy experimental films are stupid.
down down isn't bad. I really really struggle with double quartercircles or double fullcircles(fuck playing hakan) in AE.
Mind you that doesn't mean I hate them. Phoenix Wright is one of the best things I have on my 3ds.
Phoenix wright pretty firmly sits in the adventure game genre, not visual novels.
I think it's bad that male characters often get forced into niches that reinforce the whole "big, tough guy" stereotype and when it's not that, it's often wit that's supposed to come off as humorous, but more-often portrays itself as obnoxious or boring quips. That's actually one of the reasons I really liked Heavy Rain, mostly because of Ethan Mars. He had a really believable personality and appearance. He reminded me of people I actually know, and you could feel in the story how much it meant to him to not lose his son.
Yes puzzles are games.Phoenix wright pretty firmly sits in the adventure game genre, not visual novels.
Which is much iffier territory because it involves a lot of puzzle sections interlaced with all the dialogue. I'm genuinely curious why you don't consider it a game. Are puzzles in general not games, or is there some vague minimum number of puzzles you need to have in a game that uses them as its main form of gameplay?
saya no uta
So the puzzle part of phoenix wright is a game, but the dialogue in between isn't? And because there's too much dialogue in between, it suddenly makes the whole thing not a game?Yes puzzles are games.
I have to be directly involved with everything not just a text fed story. I have to feel I contributed to the overall game. If the majority of what I do is sitting back and reading it is not a game, even if they game has fps elements are actions gameplay if it isn't mostly game play I write it off as a visual novel. You also seemed well versed in the visual novel territory. Could you recommend some?