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Valentine General Discussion / Social Thread!

ashxu said:
Is there any use for Mortuary Drop? It's a command throw so it doesn't work when the enemy is blocking or being hit and it's slow as hell so you can't exactly use it for resets.

Yeah, it's a pretty useless move.
 
ashxu said:
Is there any use for Mortuary Drop? It's a command throw so it doesn't work when the enemy is blocking or being hit and it's slow as hell so you can't exactly use it for resets.

You cannot block Mortuary Drop.
It's most practical application is using it for mixups in combos and in block strings. For better results, get the opponent to think you're going to continue your B&B or full combo and at the points where Val is on the ground, use the move.

Also since the majority of SG players love to simply block and call in their assist, you can throw them or even land mortuary drop on them to punish.

It has some application for a reset if you have the meter. Using Checkmate and airdash cancel with j.MP is a good way to start a new combo from Mortuary. Or if you have the meter and just need a direct damage to kill, try landing EKG or if near the corner, Dead on Arrival.

Mortuary is ALMOST gimmicky due to its speed but it does have useful applications, you just have to use it sparingly.
 
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Combo into s.hp then mortuary drop. The s.hp give you just enough time to get Val's Izuna drop in .
 
Would changing Dead on Arrival to a throw super be OP?

Currently it gets scaled to shit so it isn't really worth using unless maybe DHC or to look cool I guess.

Been toying around with s.HP xx Mortuary Drop -> Air Scalpels -> combo corner resets too.
 
Is there a consensus on the best Val assist, or is it very team-dependent? I've been waffling with my team order/assists for awhile and am currently running Bella/Val/Filia with Mortuary assist. I feel like it's kind of a scrubby choice that doesn't help me unless I'm in the corner, but I'm really not sure what would be more helpful in neutral. Any suggestions?
 
BGCallisto said:
Is there a consensus on the best Val assist, or is it very team-dependent? I've been waffling with my team order/assists for awhile and am currently running Bella/Val/Filia with Mortuary assist. I feel like it's kind of a scrubby choice that doesn't help me unless I'm in the corner, but I'm really not sure what would be more helpful in neutral. Any suggestions?

Well first of all I would suggest that you change your team order. Val should NEVER be on a position other than point on any team. Second it really doesn't matter which assist you choose for Val because there not that good.Most people choose between her normal throw, cr.mk, or mortuary drop. Just pick one that you like the most
 
Yeah I'll probably go back to Val/Fil/Bel which I had before. Thanks though, I'll probably just stick with what I have assist-wise if there's nothing particularly great that she has.
 
One of these days I'm gonna try to run fortune/val with st.hp assist. There is a rumorgoing around that we are sleeping on that move.
 
Camail said:
One of these days I'm gonna try to run fortune/val with st.hp assist. There is a rumor going around that we are sleeping on that move.

I almost always use st.hp or just plain grab for my Val. Trying to stay awake on all the tech for the Mac port/ Console update.
 
I haven't tried it as an assist but I play Val on point a lot and find st.FP to be the better anti-air normal in the game.
 
BGCallisto said:
Is there a consensus on the best Val assist, or is it very team-dependent? I've been waffling with my team order/assists for awhile and am currently running Bella/Val/Filia with Mortuary assist. I feel like it's kind of a scrubby choice that doesn't help me unless I'm in the corner, but I'm really not sure what would be more helpful in neutral. Any suggestions?

Change that Val assist to H Savage Bypass ASAP. You can get full combo follow-ups after Diamond Drop/Dynamo, Titan Knuckle + Bypass. That's a solid team if you go Bypass and Updo/Hairball (Hairball better for offense, Updo is pure defense imo).

Val assists are really team-dependent, she doesn't have a very good go-to assist like other characters, but she can provide a lot depending on the character (Bypass for long range conversions, low for air dash heavy characters like Filia, etc).

Nobody should every choose Mortuary Drop, that move is terrible as an assist; so slow and easy to avoid if you're not asleep. If you can't find anything else, choose something that can work well as an alpha counter (Normal Throw and c.mk can work here).
 
If he's gonna go bypass for valentine for set ups and hit cofirms he would want up do assist. It is by no means exclusively a defensive option, it is used in every way a dp assist is used. Jump back up do is not the only way to use it, the invincibility frames make it great for mixing in with pressure. Considering that you almost never want to be on the ground against a bella I'd say a dp would be best.
 
Camail said:
If he's gonna go bypass for valentine for set ups and hit cofirms he would want up do assist. It is by no means exclusively a defensive option, it is used in every way a dp assist is used. Jump back up do is not the only way to use it, the invincibility frames make it great for mixing in with pressure. Considering that you almost never want to be on the ground against a bella I'd say a dp would be best.

Eh, Hairball is much better lock down if that's what he wants. It's a bit harder, but it's still possible to do well without a DP assist in your pocket. But looking at Val's weak meter-less defensive options, I suppose Updo would be best.

Bella has the tools she needs already to handle jump-happy opponents.
 
Hi guys, I just picked the game back up two days ago, I originally played team filabella, I am now picking up Val and Parasoul, but I am a complete beginner with Valentine, I would like to play some of you guys on Steam if possible? Any helpful tips would be greatly appreciated
 
With the new undizzy, Val's entire "corner carry and do long combos to do damage" needs to be changed to "do quick resets and do vial toss combos for damage." If close enough, you can link vial toss into lp (easier) or lk (harder). Timing is strict, but it's doable.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
With the new undizzy, Val's entire "corner carry and do long combos to do damage" needs to be changed to "do quick resets and do vial toss combos for damage." If close enough, you can link vial toss into lp (easier) or lk (harder). Timing is strict, but it's doable.
This makes me sad. SDE-chan has made me attuned to my current combos although I have been looking into and learning Beta combos :'(
 
Val can carry to the corner then do a bunch of corner pressure into full corner combos. Not a whole lot needs to change, you have enough chains to corner carry, you just have to reset afterwords.
 
Ok, I will keep that in mind
 
I'm new to skullgirls and the first character I want to play is Valentine I've been looking around and I have not been seeing the answers to some of my questions. I know there will be a time for combos and such but at the very beginning you have to know your tools and how to get in. So my question is this? What are Valentines Best Normals? Overhead's High low mixups does she have reliable zoning options what are her meterless combo options ? I see everyone with 1 bar all the time does it start with 1bar? Here BNB's? I have seen like 98% corner combos so I can tell she is covered in that department. In the future I'm thinking Val/Fillia/Parasol maybe not in that order I would love feedback on that team though. From my understanding Val's assists suck so she will be on point hence why I'm learning her first. Any problematic matchups I should know before hand? In games like tekken you will see a lot of people have a top 10 moves. What is it for Val? What can she do about whiff punishment?

-Thanks
 
IknowReal said:
Stuff
Nah, this game isn't quite like Tekken or something with a gazillion moves but only 10 you'll be using regularly. It's more about utilizing everything a character has; Primarily because they have a much smaller move-set. Her overheads and mix-ups mainly come from her air dashes and her throw is very awesome.

Most one bar combos should be able to build it back and you start with one bar in a match, so it's usually fine. Her zoning isn't really that strong. She can hop around and throw crosses to be annoying, but you ain't beating Peacock with it.
I'd swap Filia and Parasoul's spots on that team, but other than that it's solid.

Also, not sure about your whiff punishment question. Do you mean what she can do to people who whiff things or things she can do when she whiffs stuff?
And can't think of any particularly brutal match-ups for her. Sure some are worse/better than others, but none that are really horrible come to mind.
 
One thing that I have slowly been realizing about val is tht her backdash is rediculously strong, if you time it right it blows up lows so if you IAD out of a back dash you can catch anyone trying to hit you with a grab or low. With regards to how safe it is, I haven't tested how tight a frame trap would need to be in order to catch a val back dashing, but I can do that in a day or so. Until then you can totally use this in matchmaking and blow up bad players really easily.

We used to have a guide back on the old forum... I might need to start bugging good vals to help with a collab and remake it.
 
Backdash was always Val's answer to throws, just like PW Flight and Peacock IAD. Don't bother using it vs lows, since proper frame traps are going to catch it anyway (it's not invincible). If you're certain the opponent is going for a grab and want to punish though, I would go for this over super every time.
 
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Dohnut V.2 said:
Nah, this game isn't quite like Tekken or something with a gazillion moves but only 10 you'll be using regularly. It's more about utilizing everything a character has; Primarily because they have a much smaller move-set. Her overheads and mix-ups mainly come from her air dashes and her throw is very awesome.

Most one bar combos should be able to build it back and you start with one bar in a match, so it's usually fine. Her zoning isn't really that strong. She can hop around and throw crosses to be annoying, but you ain't beating Peacock with it.
I'd swap Filia and Parasoul's spots on that team, but other than that it's solid.

Also, not sure about your whiff punishment question. Do you mean what she can do to people who whiff things or things she can do when she whiffs stuff?
And can't think of any particularly brutal match-ups for her. Sure some are worse/better than others, but none that are really horrible come to mind.

For example if they throw out a raw super or they whiff a special moves what are her options. In tekken you can punish a move before they recover if it's unsafe. Or if they whiff.
 
IknowReal said:
For example if they throw out a raw super or they whiff a special moves what are her options. In tekken you can punish a move before they recover if it's unsafe. Or if they whiff.
Ah, yeah it's about the same. Punishing unsafe stuff if pretty simple: most of her normal moves and supers can do it. It's usually best to punish with a heavy punch/kick if you can, since if you get a counter with a heavy hit it lets you do longer combos and do more damage overall.
 
View619 said:
Backdash was always Val's answer to throws, just like PW Flight and Peacock IAD. Don't bother using it vs lows, since proper frame traps are going to catch it anyway (it's not invincible). If you're certain the opponent is going for a grab and want to punish though, I would go for this over super every time.

I dunno, I was just thinkng that frame traps might not hurt it if you pbgc backdash, especially if they have you locked down with an assist and you can pbgc without pushing them back. It could also work if they frame trap with multihit moves if you time it right. It would be tricky to get the timing right in both cases, but it's possible in theory.
The only place where it will never be viable is on tight resets.
 
Eh, pbgc with a jab or throw would probably be better if you're going to take that risk.
 
But you cant get CH'd from a backdash which actually matters now, it makes lows whiff, and you get an instant overhead. It covers more options than a jab. Also the range is better than both a jab and a grab.
 
Dead on Arrival is a really cool move, it's like Akuma's Raging Demon and it's the only move in the game that has a "cinematic".

Shame it's pretty shit and isn't really worth using most of the time.
 
Useless but probably worth noting to someone but if you're playing solo Valentine for some reason and you connect a lvl2 with vial, it's a ToD against 3 man teams with the right combo.
 
its also a ToD against 2-man teams, provided you have the damage vial, but who ever loads anything else eh
 
Considering solo Val can kill in two touches, using Orange/Lag Vial is actually very optimal when going for resets.
 
I usually load hitstun vial, theres some fun stuff you can do.
Dont really understand lag vial, usually get mashed out when i try anything with that
 
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Green/Hit stun is good for when you want to bind or link two moves that would otherwise not combo but Orange/Lag vial causes input lag for the opponent making it easier for Valentines to land a reset or mixup. Out of all the vials, Orange/Lag yields the highest damage potential.
 
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Really? I never use hitstun to combo things that usually dont. I do mixups and crossups/unders, makes it harder to mash it out since youll be on the other side whenever hitstun ends
 
Yeah in my opinion that's not a particularly good use of Hitstun vial as you're not really getting the full benefit of a mixup or crossup/crossunder as you would from Lag vial. By screwing with their inputs, you increase the success rate of all your mixups and resets. Level 2+ pretty much screws over everyone and even a level 1 Lag vial can be useful on certain players. Because it, my two touch kills come off pretty consistent. Granted I've been lazy lately and just gone for straight damage with poison lol
 
yeah I see how it'd be more effective, still though, I don't know why you wouldn't mash Updo, Pillar, Dynamo etc. when you're getting lag vial'd. granted, it would work on Val since no reversal

edit: also, you can load pretty much any vial with a level 1 green vial in the corner, with assist, that makes 2, with A-train 3
 
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If you've hit the opponent with a lag vial, especially level 2+ and in going for a reset or mixup, you got reversaled by anything including a super you've screwed up and kinda deserve to be hit lol
 
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Imo hitstun is best for giving val a projectile she can hitconfirm from mid screen. And now that you aren't forced to use vial when you want a projectile in neutral, this option becomes more relevent.
 
Does lag vial delay a burst if they were mashing it? Might be some unique baits you could set up.
 
lag vial does nothing to mashing, which is my only problem with it
 
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