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valentine is among the worst characters in the game

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Fatboyute

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  • no actual reversals
  • undisputed as the worst solo character in the game (robo and peacock don't count they are zoners). when you see a solo val he's either bad or outlawspike (worlds apart btw) and honestly outlawspike is the best skullgirls player ever, it's easy to be sonicfox and just do unreactable filia shit all day
  • isn't a rushdown character, despite being a ninja. beowulf, parasoul, filia, fukua, miss fortune, eliza, squigly even big band have better rush down tools
  • trash mixups. if you are being pressured by val just downback and tech. her gimmicky overhead is easy to jab out and react to...
  • her air dash is great in combos, resets and crossups but as an instant air dash its garbage. the angle basically says ok you can't hit anything on the floor...
  • bad damage without vials...
  • her supers are straight up garbage. her level 3 can't be combo'd off and it scales like trash if you use it at the end of a combo.. her scalpel super is great for converting off full screen bypass and her flatliner is only used to get the tiny tiny chunk of damage needed to kill someone.... countervenom? only used to style on people because it's so costly and bad.....
from what i've read, valentine is only good for converting off assists or making reads with bypass. her only strength is her resets, but everyone in this game has resets soo....

kudos to val players
 
Val's really good.

Also, that is almost entirely all wrong.

If you want advice on playing Val (e.g. What are my reversal options? EKG, Counter, level 3 and sometimes scalpels) then ask that instead of making a long rant that you know will not get useful responses.
 
ok i get hard knocked down what do i do besides eat everything
 
Fatboyute said:
  • no actual reversals
Her supers are all reversals. As for meterless, that's what DP assists are for.
Fatboyute said:
  • undisputed as the worst solo character in the game (robo and peacock don't count they are zoners). when you see a solo val he's either bad or outlawspike (worlds apart btw) and honestly outlawspike is the best skullgirls player ever, it's easy to be sonicfox and just do unreactable filia shit all day
Then don't play solo Val (unless you're Outlaw Spike).
Fatboyute said:
  • isn't a rushdown character, despite being a ninja. beowulf, parasoul, filia, fukua, miss fortune, eliza, squigly even big band have better rush down tools
Then stop trying to play pure rushdown all the time. Sometimes you gotta know when to upback dead cross.
Also how the fuck is Squigly a rushdown character? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Fatboyute said:
  • trash mixups. if you are being pressured by val just downback and tech. her gimmicky overhead is easy to jab out and react to...
TIL low/throw 50/50s are bad and this is SF4 where crouch tech works.
Fatboyute said:
  • her air dash is great in combos, resets and crossups but as an instant air dash its garbage. the angle basically says ok you can't hit anything on the floor...
Huh, all this time I've been hitting things with IAD jMP or jHP, guess I imagined that and they actually whiffed every time.
Fatboyute said:
  • bad damage without vials...
Then get vials.
Fatboyute said:
  • her supers are straight up garbage. her level 3 can't be combo'd off and it scales like trash if you use it at the end of a combo.. her scalpel super is great for converting off full screen bypass and her flatliner is only used to get the tiny tiny chunk of damage needed to kill someone.... countervenom? only used to style on people because it's so costly and bad.....
Yeah who needs a 1 bar invincible air super that's safe on block anyway?
 
Ignoring everything else that is wrong here, Shin is (was?) a good solo Val.
 
LMAO. someone is so tight.
 
Here's a bit of a more detailed response:
- EKG and counter are her main reversals and her other supers all have situational use as reversals as well.

- Outlaw has said he doesn't believe she's that bad solo and whileI'd still say she is among the worst solos, Peacock, Robo (yes, they do count) and maybe Squigly are all worse solos. Also, if it were so easy to do what Sonic does, then more people would be doing it and he wouldn't be so consistent.

- Val can do a bunch of play styles very well, including rushdown. She is extremely versatile and her rushdown is some of the scariest in the game.

- Her mixups and resets are crazy good. She has an instant overhead as fast as Filia's, a great throw, great cross-ups and lag vial. In the corner she is scarier than Filia IMO.

- Her ai-dash is great for mobility and if you want to use it for instant overheads then just do backlash, air dash.

- She gets 8k midscreen with no vials. That is great damage.

- Her supers are great but you need a DHC to get followups usually (hence her reliance on her team mates). Countervenom is super good and very underused. If your opponent is being predictable in their pressure/offence, they are either going to eat 10k+. If you have a vial loaded you can react to assists and deal huge damage to them safely and if your opponent blocks then you are +
 
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Real Talk.

Val is fine. she's really good, and once she's in on you, she's not gonna let go of you. And he paired up with certain assists makes her extremely tricky to beat. You will get stuck in the blender.
 
Rabbleflaggers said:
Smh if you don't play Val with hornet bomber. It solves the reversal problem as well as letting you get vials mid-combo.
M Bomber has no invincibility and I don't think L Bomber gives you enough time for a vial load.

But yeah, Val + M Bomber = <3
 
Some of you should answer with real answers.

For your concern, I think it's just a matter of experience. Just take your time playing this game, and you'll understand what most of us are saying.
 
Fatboyute said:
no actual reversals
EKG. Counter.
Fatboyute said:
it's easy to be sonicfox and just do unreactable filia shit all day
You mean like Valentines 18F overhead?
Val's overhead is way lower to the floor making it much harder to see anyway.
Fatboyute said:
trash mixups. if you are being pressured by val just downback and tech. her gimmicky overhead is easy to jab out and react to...
18F isn't easy to jab or react to, especially if she has + frames.
See above.
Fatboyute said:
her air dash is great in combos, resets and crossups but as an instant air dash its garbage. the angle basically says ok you can't hit anything on the floor...
Then don't use it.
Use her overhead if you want to hit high.
Airdash is for cross ups.
Fatboyute said:
bad damage without vials...
She hits for 8K with an assist (late in the combo, not H LNL early junk).
She also has a midscreen 8K, universal, with no assists but I can't find the video.
So her damage without vial is already really good, but then you add vial and it goes absolutely nuts.
Doesn't seem like a fair complaint.

Your last couple threads have been extremely low quality.
I think that you still have a lot of learning to do.

If you would like advice on how to be a better player, format your next thread something along the lines of "I am having trouble in these areas, can I get some advice?"
I don't want to see another thread like this, please.

Thanks!
 
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give val a 1f jump-cancelable shine
 
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Liam said:
You mean like Valentines 18F overhead?
Val's overhead is way slower to the floor making it much harder to see anyway.
I think you mean lower.

What is Val's non-crossup overhead? Is it the backdash airdash?
 
Only one forward?

...Huh, a Val-only airdash shortcut. Looks like that goes into air L Cross, which should be enough to hit confirm.
 
The shortcut was added in 2E+, super nice quality of life improvement.
 
What advantage does a Valentine have compared to Filia, Beowulf, Parasoul or Eliza.. you can't say resets because everyone has them. Val sucks. She can't open people up and her character is basically about playing lame and resetting people to death. Which sucks because she is a defensive character in an offensive game. Oh and her defensive options suck. Crap PBGS and her reversal level 1 will get fucked by anything from the air. Can't even convert off it either. The only other defensive chars I can think of are Robo and Peacock. But Robo does have an armored normal and actually excels at zoning and being defensive, with a good backdash and op lasers. Except that's Robo. That's what makes her good. So everyone says, well Val is good because she has good resets. Wow everyone has resets!!! Peacock is a next beast by herself, having a dp and mortal kombat teleport, more great defensive tools. So yeah, Valentine the character that excels at being defensive, but has no defensive tools.

So I'm just confused as to why this character is seemingly S+ tier (idc if tiers don't exist) when she is so bad. Like, she sucks..
 
I think Val's solid middle of the pack tbh.

Strengths

Valentine has DOT vial, input delay vial, easy oki (s.hk), double jump and airdash, counter, absurd carry, best armor breaker, dead cross, one of the best ground throws, great crossup and crossunder game, 2nd best at confirming off random assist hits, one of if not the best at baiting pbgcs, absolutely STUPID stagger game (do it, its great), easy sideswitches,etc.

Weaknesses

Her antiairs are slow, her hitboxes interact oddly with alot of the cast, most of her combos and confirms have character specific timings, her supers aren't great (really not great as dhcs either), her hurtbox is deceptively wide, really reliant on assists, her moves with good hitboxes require assists to convert and the others are just not great, etc.

I feel Val is one of the better balanced characters in the game, and she is well geared towards a versus style game.

Her best ratio in order (imo) is Trio, Solo, Duo.

Trio lets her limit her downsides (horizontal assist and dp assist is the norm, though there are exceptions {excella says hello}).
Solo her access to easy oki and DOT vial allows for tods on incoming with 3 bar, which is strong.
Duo she doesn't benefit in anyway outside of damage and health, and with how optimized teams and shells are getting, its not enough to warrant using as much as the others imo.
 
Her neutral may seem defensive, but it is to get advantage and then go in. Double jumping, air dashing, and throwing dead crosses all make the opponent think twice since if they even block the cross, then valentine gets to act a little sooner and go on the offensive if she wants.
BTW she has good mixups in neutral. Any character can reset, but an offensive character need good mixups in neutral. Peacock may have good resets, but how is she going to mix her opponent up in neutral? It will be difficult without an assist, unlike Valentine who can play around pushblock and use instant overheads.
If any character is overrated, I'd say Eliza. Not to say she isn't strong, but people seem to complain about her defense and mixups being too strong when those seem to be her weaker areas.
And just as a note from a Robo main, her defense and damage are worse than valentines. Her armored move is a neutral tool. Using it as a reversal will just have the opponent laugh at you. Also, valentine's c.lk is better than Robo's(robo's c.lk is one of the worst in the game) among other underwhelming normals.
 
@cloudKing211 thank you for your in depth answer, i guess i have to rely on staggering and failed pushblocks more often because my general complaint really was, this character has bad offense. maybe i'm bad or wrong for this but for me characters with useful command grabs or chainable overheads just seem way easier to find a hit compared to chars with only lows and grabs.
 
@Fatboyute You're welcome!

From the sound of it you may like either Bella (command throws) or Parasoul (chainable overheads), but if you'd like to work on val, id say watching footage of her may be good, there is quite a bit of val footage on youtube and elsewhere.
 
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