Waifu Simulator Training

[Adwins]

ok, so i figured it would be a good idea to finally make one of these.

So i get absolutely wrecked online unless it's with friends who happen to be on the same level as I. Think it goes without saying that i want to get better

Right now, I main Squigly, but once I get a better hold of her, i want to add Beowulf and/or Double to my roster andeventually put them on a team.

I think at my level, I need to work on the neutral game. I don't really know how i can elaborate on this, honestly, I'm just bad at punishing and converting if i ever DO hit. Maybe i just need to learn more about my moves' spacing...

Progress
>Some BnBs down, thanks to the main combo thread on the Squigly board. However, i have an awful time converting into any of them, as i mentioned, so I just need to work on my neutral in gneral.

>Started experimenting with Assists, mainly with Double and Beowulf. for example: ... > > Hornet Bomber (Double), (charge, release OTG),
and (Beo) ... > (with chair) > Cremation (Squigly) > > ...

>realized spacing will be difficult for Squigly because her backdash has a definite distance.

Goals:
>Neutral game.

>learn more combos. all the ones i know except one start with c > c

>Practice Stancel in places other than combos, ie baiting a reaction, movement, instant blocking, etc

1/16/14
Tried playing online. Found a lobby that happened to contain a lot of people on here (that i didn't even know were users here until i came to the Diary board just now)

Everyone wrecked my shit!

I was mainly trying to work on my neutral, and i actually think i did well enough for my first time trying it, even with a GGPO delay of 3-5 at times. honestly, I hate to blame lag for poor performance, but the visual skips really caught me off guard--i could never time a Stancel or Draugen punch correctly. Once i even Stancel-ed twice in a row on accident

I was also able to convert off of a poking c > c > Silver Chord a couple of times! I was happy about that.

Noticed a Fukua trying to bait with c > c. Yes it's worth mentioning because I'm at least starting to recognize it! Looking at the videos over here http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702 had me completely lost.
Anyway, tried to counter with an instant divekick but her attack came out more quickly than I thought

I used to think Big Band was Squigly's worst matchup, but it turns out i just have to NOT rush in constantly! Every BB I fought still killed me, though.

Honestly I think it'd be best if i had a training partner, but I'm not sure how well that'd work out, with college and all.

Any comments or help from anyone is greatly appreciated

 

[Snackysnacks]

I suggest turning ggpo delay between 0-2, typically if you have trouble withing timing on combos online than offline you can take the risk of rollbacks (where the game skips back a bit) at the cost of doing your inputs without much delay.

When you start getting into the grove of how you want to combo, and how the reset/bait/ender is going to happen, you just do it automatically regardless of the skipping visuals.

As far as books and readings go, i never read that handbook at sonichurricane, but the go-to book for understanding/learning any fighting games you should check out the fighting game primer http://shoryuken.com/srk/FightingGamePrimer.pdf

 

[Adwins]

http://shoryuken.com/srk/FightingGamePrimer.pdf

Woah, this is pretty neat! thanks

 

[Adwins]

Today i got my ass handed to me again. Big band too stronk. Tried to play Arcade mode on Ridiculous (because I'm told even nightmare is a big step down from human players so might as well train myself with that), and i decided to try adding Beowulf to the team for funsies. BAD IDEA. I only know one string for Beo and even though i used assists well enough, if Squigly died i was screwed. the Stage i was stuck on was Eliza/Squig/BigBand and Eliza was almost as big a problem as Big band was.

GOALS
>Lrn2Beo

>Determine which specials to use at what time (charging was no issue, surprisingly. But i could never even fire an Arpeggio off because i made the decision too late)

 

[mcpeanuts]

>Determine which specials to use at what time (charging was no issue, surprisingly. But i could never even fire an Arpeggio off because i made the decision too late)

While you're still learning the character I would recommend not using specials outside of combos other than Sing, dive kicks, and Draugen Punch (and stancels, if that's considered a special move). Everything she has is useful for something, but all her other special moves are more situational than those ones. While you're still learning the character and trying to ingrain things into muscle memory I think it's easier if you're focusing on fewer moves, then when you feel comfortable with that you can try working more stuff in.

Specifically these are the times I'd recommend using those moves:

-Sing: If you have punch stance charged, you can use the level 2 version of this move and cancel it into Squigly Battle Opera to punish your opponent for pushing buttons basically anywhere. It costs a lot of resources but it's really low risk high reward. If you don't have punch stance charged, don't bother using this move.

-Dive kicks: From a single jump the L and M versions are pretty plus on block and hard to anti air. From a double jump they have worse frames and can be punishable; I'm not gonna say don't use dive kicks from double jump height but if you're going full YOLO you may as well do the H version and get the biggest reward if it happens to hit.

-Draugen Punch: Like Sing, don't use this if it's not charged. I also wouldn't recommend using it if you don't have meter. If you have both though it's pretty amazing. Do it if you're pretty sure your opponent is going to push buttons. Always cancel into Opera to combo if it hits or make it safe if it's blocked.

-Stancel: If you don't have charge you can use this to make your blockstrings safe. If you DO have charge you can use it to make your blockstrings PLUS and basically just keep doing whatever you want until they pushblock you out (or reversal). It also lets you do stupid resets like f.HP (1 hit), stancel, c.LK.

>learn more combos. all the ones i know except one start with c > c

tbh when I do a combo it usually starts like this, or a jumpin/dive kick then c.LK c.MK. The only other combo starters I think are really worth learning are like f.HP, throw, and air throw. Off f.HP you can either Silver Chord or Seria Stancel and do c.LK c.MK. Off Throw you can either cancel to Opera then dash up OTG c.MK, or Seria Sing and OTG c.MK, or Seria Silver Chord and link a c.MK (that last one might not work on all characters? I don't remember). Off air throw you can do L divekick, s.LK c.MK.

 

[Adwins]

While you're still learning the character I would recommend not using specials outside of combos other than Sing, dive kicks, and Draugen Punch (and stancels, if that's considered a special move).

Specifically these are the times I'd recommend using those moves:

Yeah those are the ones i tend to use most, but for some reason i can hardly pull off Draugen punch in a real battle, as opposed to in Training mode where I can hit (...) sHP > HP > Draugen XX MH SBO > Charge like, 80% of the time. I'm sure that'll just take practice to master.

One other issue i do have is that with a block string, i end up just mashing Stancel during random attack strings. Not sure if that's bad as long as i'm prepared to Stancel-block/counter. 6 HP > cLK sounds hilarious too--I'll try that.

tbh when I do a combo it usually starts like this, or a jumpin/dive kick then c.LK c.MK. The only other combo starters I think are really worth learning are like f.HP, throw, and air throw.

The one combo i knew that didn't start with those moves were jHK > M or H divekick as a jumpin but i stopped with the jHK start when it suddenly clicked in my head how combo scaling worked.

Thanks for the tips, they're really helpful.

GOALS:

>Beat Arcade on Ridiculous mode 5 times with less than 5 deaths each run

>when not in a combo, use only jHP and Air throw to connect with airbornes. Gotta get used to using jHP as an air-to-air more often and not just something for midcombo or antiPeacock/Parasoul.

 

[ElementFree]

Oh hey I remember you, wanna add me on steam and play sometime?

 

[Adwins]

Oh hey I remember you, wanna add me on steam and play sometime?

Sure! i actually tried adding you last time we were in a lobby together but i wasn't sure which of the search results was you

 

[Adwins]

it's only been a week since i last posted here? Huh.

Anyway, I decided to join tje "Get Good" event from /r/Skullgirls. With my online experience, I knew Solo Squigs wouldn't stand a chance, even if these players are at my level.

SO, I decided to pick up a second character who reminds me a lot of Ky from Guilty Gear: Eliza!

Progress
>Working on assists, which are currently Drag'n'Bite and Divekick.

>Simple BnBs down. namely
x3 x2 x2 (air stuff)
and this DHC
Dash (land)x2x2(DHC)

surprisingly enough, the second is not consistent on LIGHTweight characters of all things.

>charging TWICE after a DHC? Yes please!

Goals
>Do decently at the event. We only play three matches but still

>Beat arcade mode consistently with this new team

>practice linking L Osiris spiral into stuff

 

[Adwins]

So I won two matches of the 6 i played. I think i did pretty ok, though.

My first opponent was REALLY CRAZY with Big Band

Highlights:
>My first opponent used Peacock/Band in our second match and I just CRUISED ON BY with Eliza's c.HK

>that guy's big band fell into my Daisy Pusher and it won me the match.

>someone played the Eva theme during Satchmo and it was fucking sweet (not my match)

Things I know I need to work on:
>Actual block strings that end in a throw

>throwing at all

>If i get a launch ACTUALLY USE jMP/HP/HK. I keep thinking to myself "USE ONE OF THOSE MOVES" but i hit lp.

>NOT accidentally shitting out Sekhmet or Scarab (forgot its name) when i ACTUALLY just want to Lady of Slaughter xx SBO

>when doing my Squigly BnB, I sometimes miss the Arpeggio in the j OTG XX + chain, which sucks because missing that lets them block.

>using stancels in real matches. Whenever Squigly connected my kneejerk reaction was to always chord them, nd NOT extend it with stancel. Even had charges throughout most of my matches

>Use Squigly's DP

>Don't get used to using Eliza's cHK to get in

>STOP accidentally doing cMK after a Horus dive OTG

>Eliza's IAD options. jHP and jMP are the ones i tend to use and i just need to get better at using them

When the stream gets uploaded to youtube i'll link it here and point to when my matches took place.

 

[Adwins]

Here it is.

My matches were at 1:00:40 and 1:24 ish

Person who announced/held the event had this to say:

Spoiler

• Careful with assist calls. If you're getting wailed on in the corner, calling your assist is probably a bad idea.
  
  
• Be cautious of attempts to grab your incoming character after a KO.
  
  
• Raw supers are always a bad idea. Raw tags are, too.
  
  
• Be careful about jumping into Big Band. He can grab you with A Train.
  
  
• With Eliza, nice use of the boat's armor to close in on Peacock. Don't overuse it, though.
  
  
• BLOCK MORE
  
  
• Squigly is best at midrange. Don't always get in your opponent's face.
  
  
• Nice use of Eliza's overheads for mix-ups.
  
  
• Don't keep on attacking when your opponent is blocking. This is very important when playing Eliza, since many of her attacks are slow and super punishable. (look up hit-confirming)
  
  
• Don't do Silver Chord when you're super close to your opponent. If it gets blocked, its long recovery time gives your opponent a great chance to punish you

 

[Adwins]

So it's been well over a year since I last visited this thread because I'm a lazy butt. rewatching that video makes me feel good because i've definitely improved since then... but if you've seen me play, I still lose a lot. I come with a couple new sets for me to reflect upon. One from the 12th and the otehr from just yesterday

Spoiler

Spoiler

Now for a few notes about these sets and me as a player:

• I'm finding myself to be a slower player, waiting for openings to attack instead of rushing in myself. Against the wrong player, this is actually a point in -their- favor.
  
• Dealing with setplay and pressure is one of my weakspots. I hate having to guess between at least 3 different mixups at each reset point that only expands because of physics, characters, and different places where resets can happen. More often than not will I be opened up on a wrong guess.
• Because of the above, as squigly I tend to attempt reversals such as DP and Daisy pusher, sometimes jabs depending. Eliza? Less reliable reversals so i don't do them so much. I like pressing cLK though
• Because of, well, the rest of this. I prefer to stay in neutral, where things are slowed down at least a little bit so I can think and observe.
  
• Doing setplay myself is becoming easier to me, but it's not air tight (esp Squigly's), as people always seem to sneak out of some of my set ups
• Having played so much, I learned common throw reset points and will hit Throw at those points regardless of what's happening. If i still get combo'd, obviously nothing happens. if they DO throw, I escape it. If they reset it with something else, then, well i learn not to do that at that point. However there are some points in some combos where nothing can be done to reset -except- throw, ie if i'm way too high.
• relating to the above, I've done quite a bit of lab work (not as much as others, though), and I've got a bit of frame data/spacing knowledge under my belt, but this concrete data means nothing if I can't apply it to a real battle, which I have trouble doing
• and relating to THAT, I'm able to at least determine what went wrong/right if something crazy happens, but that leads to the following:
• The above is not the same as reading the opponent. In the middle of a fight, there's little value in analyzing what went wrong when it's already happened and the damage is done.
• Obviously, this can still be used to learn the opp's habits, but i'm just not good at doing that
• That aside, I should also start focusing on adapting to the situation at hand rather than reflecting on a mistake
• a LOT of matches lately usually come down to them catching my mistakes more than I catch them. Sometimes I take control of a match when i'm at less that 20% health and I could take down most of a 3-man team, but it leaves no room for mistakes. ie Game three in the first set, I beat Robo and Parasoul with a >10% Squigly, but i had taken too much damage at that point to even be confident in beating the first character, let alone Val.

I feel like there's way too much to say about this stuff, so i'll come back to analyzing these sets later. I already tried doing one on stream but i feel like i was doing more of a play-by-play than an analysis... guess that's a skill to learn on it's own right.

If anyone has anything to say, about the sets, what i said, or whatever, I'd appreciate it

 

[Adwins]

kk it's been 5 months. I have like 6 sets recorded and a couple of them even made it onto youtbe, but im STILL a lazy butt, so here's last week's skullbats.

@ 9:30

Spoiler

• need to work on poking the bike when i dash in vs parasoul. the CH was my trying to cLK the dude
• I usually do ok with Cat head pressure if i'm able to block it as long as I watch double... but apparently i didn' watch hard enough because i got crossed up
• I noticed that whenever i confirm an air throw, i always fuck up the divekick. It's easy enough to grind out in the lab but it doesn't translate to real fights so i'll just practice that more
• When I called fortune in after Eliza came in, I should have done jLK or something to continue the pressure since i was already chicken blocking to bait some sort of response
• I'm starting to get in the habit of doing cMK in my brockstrings again and that's bad because it got me Pillar'd. I'm not sure if cMP is a truer block string though
• I feel like Whiff punishing is hard in this game, at least for me, because i keep getting counterhit when i try to do it.
• Regarding the Bomber crossup pillar mixup... I don't know if that was intentional or whatever. Would have been a great conversion on hit, and if it same sided i think it would have been better for him and i was expecting to be blocking all of bomber. Just surprised i was able to low profile it overall, even moreso that Pillar didn't leave me in blockstun long enough to keep it safe
• Mechanically, one thing i still suck at is Launching myself off of Fiber when it whiffs. Too used to the on-hit timings
• I Keep autopiloting my blockstrings even on whiff... NLSDNCJDS

• I'm trying to get used to being defensive at round start, and it worked in round 1... but here i forget to block low and Dag catches me with a dashup cLK. not sure if a dash cLK of my own would have beat that--forgot the frame data on both of them.
• I noticed i keep trying to DP on wakeup as fortune. I think it's to practice reversal timing since I always failed that trial in Xrd, but while it's worked out so far in this match, it hasn't in others. I feel like i should be trying to do something else on wakeup but there isnt anything TO do except block
• After the almost-double-snap, Parasoul did Tear Toss into a low, but i was able to cLK out of the low. I don't remember if that was Mashed or one of those "calculated guesses." I haven't memorized too much frame data beyond what i already know but in a fight, sometimes i try to guess which things are punishable but even with a 5f jab it's risky. It makes sense that i was able to beat that specific set up (even with land cancelling, I could catch that cLK if i pressed it early enough) but it was really fast so i'm assuming I mashed it. I will be on the look out for more of those times of situations though--jump in > low is a pretty common thing for players to do
• Regarding DHCs into squigly from fortune. having some extra undizzy and IPS, i tried to continue the combos. in the first match, i was able to continue with cMP - cHP, but arpeggio still missed because parasoul was still technically in the air which caused the blue bounce off of cHP. same thing happened here as well, I need to be mindful of that. I'll try DHC'ing before the final hit of Barrage next time, but i worry that SBO wont' hit
• still need to work on jHP > SBO. for some reason i have a hard time confirming it, and sometimes i just plain forget
  
• Peanuts called my H fiber conversion weird. Yes i did come up with it on my own in the lab (it's jHP ADC jLK M Gato - ground stuff - L fiber jLP jHP Gato, and yes i do have problems sometimes remembering to use jLP instead) but i wasn't aware there was another "known" conversion, will have to look that up

• Every now and then when you see me flash green for a PBGC you'll notice the startup... is sHK. it's always meant to be an H fiber and it pisses me off because it just lets me know that if i didn't suck, it would have worked lol
• I usually wait a certain amount of time after PB-ing before switching for Absolute guard and that fuckes me over sometimes--like i was able to block his fLP and PB it for safety, but i didn't switch soon enough and got clipped by the low even from that distance.
• That Super + Blade was just a fat finger. ws going for L Scrape. I usually do because it;s Even on block, and no one seems to punish it if they pushblock it. I'll have to check the disadvantage on PB but i'm certain anyone can punish with a super
• when i had double in the corner trying to apply pressure, i missed a jLP but as i landed i caught him in a backdash/PB attempt. nothing TOO special about that but it always happens to me and i felt good catching someone else doing that mistake. No offense to dag of course
• The corner crossup was not intentional, but it has happened multiple times. I wonder if i can just make that intentional. the problem is that jHK is slow and even if i Divekick-cancel that it's still very reactable
  
• I never use Liver Mortis anymore but i'm mad because i did read a jumpin from double on wake up but it still didn't work! gonna grind that out to see if it's really possible to OIP double's jHP. I could have done Daisy pusher but that always feels even riskier
• That final staredown was in anticipation of Lv3. Peanuts also says that it's + on block so baiting it wasn't a good idea after all, whether or not he does it. Throw definitely would have been the better choice. Dag doesn't jump too much as parasoul in those situations and i haven't thrown very much during this set (only once as squigly)

So that's this ft3 set. Doesn't feel like a real match analysis like my last post and is instead a list of notes, but i feel like these notes are important for me to do. I'll try and do some reflecting on my own but for now i'll end it here. Had a few good bouts in the MNB thing last week so maybe i'll look at those next time. as usual comments are appreciated

Maybe @mcpeanuts would be so kind as to give some insight?

 

[Fizzxwizz]

your conversion of fiber isn't actually weird, its the one I use that I took from caio. However the one you describe in the post isnt what you did so I guess you messed that up somewhere? Two conversions I know are caio's which is jhp adc jlk jhp, which saves otg, and the one I see diablos and pme (I think) use which is jhp adc jhp jhk dash up clk (I think). I'd suggest not ever doing wakeup fiber personally because every time I do it, it never works when it matters. Thats just my experience with it though, mostly because every time I wake up fiber I think its crazy and they wont expect it but every time they do. IMO double tapping every fiber for the followup should be the default for muscle memory if you don't have that. I'd maybe suggest doing l fiber for movement in matches if you want to get that down or something.

In one of your matches (12 minutes) you got the hard knockdown off csf but instead of moving in and keeping the pressure on you went forward a little and then backed off and let all your pressure go away and restarted neutral. Even if you hadn't gone in for the mixup, dashing up and blocking would have pressured parasoul more and maybe would have won you a blocked pillar that he would have had to cancel to bikes with his last meter if he wanted to try and not get punished (even then I think you can still punish that pretty easily midscreen).

 

[Adwins]

The idea behind that specific time was to kinda mixup my movement/distance, trying for an ambiguous crossup on wakeup, like what some people do with other caracters in the corner on incoming. You're right though as i did that little backdash too late so he was already up and ready when i jumped in with jHP. Guess my oki game is another thing to work on when labbing things

 

[mcpeanuts]

I Keep autopiloting my blockstrings even on whiff... NLSDNCJDS

Yeah stop that lol. Practice your confirms in training mode with the dummy set to random block. If you want to practice confirms on hard mode, set it to random block, pushblock on first hit, then record the dummy doing a reversal and set it to "play as reversal". Doing all that will make the dummy PBGC on the first hit of your string.

Regarding DHCs into squigly from fortune. having some extra undizzy and IPS, i tried to continue the combos. in the first match, i was able to continue with cMP - cHP, but arpeggio still missed because parasoul was still technically in the air which caused the blue bounce off of cHP. same thing happened here as well, I need to be mindful of that. I'll try DHC'ing before the final hit of Barrage next time, but i worry that SBO wont' hit

Well okay, but all that said, why did you go for a full combo here? It wasn't going to kill and by finishing the combo you don't get as strong of a mixup. That's why I figured it was a missed burst bait, it's the only thing I could think that you might have tried that would still be some kind of mixup. Even something simple like after Squigly comes in you restand with a single s.LP then go f.HP or c.LK, that would have been better.

Peanuts called my H fiber conversion weird. Yes i did come up with it on my own in the lab (it's jHP ADC jLK M Gato - ground stuff - L fiber jLP jHP Gato, and yes i do have problems sometimes remembering to use jLP instead) but i wasn't aware there was another "known" conversion, will have to look that up

Fizz already went over this. It sounds like that route saves your OTG at the cost of using a light early in the combo. I guess that's fine, I just haven't seen that one before. Just try to remember what your combo is when you're doing it.

Incidentally, why did you try to come up with a combo in the lab? When I was learning Fortune I just watched a ton of LazyDiablos match footage and wrote down + learned how to do everything he did. That's where I got the Fiber conversion I use, Fiber > j.HP ADC j.HP j.HK > OTG c.LK > etc. There's a lot of people doing combos all over the world so there's no reason to reinvent the wheel, that just gives you less time in the lab to work on stuff that's really important.

That final staredown was in anticipation of Lv3. Peanuts also says that it's + on block so baiting it wasn't a good idea after all, whether or not he does it. Throw definitely would have been the better choice. Dag doesn't jump too much as parasoul in those situations and i haven't thrown very much during this set (only once as squigly)

I think baiting Pillar xx level 3 is fine there, I just don't think trying to bait it by holding downback is the way to go. In that situation a Parasoul player is fine with the level 3 hitting or being blocked, doesn't matter as long as it connects since it's so plus on block. If you're going to bait it, you need to find another way to do it. Maybe turn into the skeleton? I haven't tried this but perhaps if you do Carpenter's Axe that would go through the level 3 and punish. It also has the advantage of being a mixup so it would hit him if he didn't reversal and was just downbacking (which he was). Of course you die if you're wrong and it's blocked, but I don't think there's any soft reads on Pillar xx level 3, you can only hard read it.

Lastly - this isn't in your notes and I didn't mention it in commentary, but rewatching this you never convert off Fiber assist. You'll call it while moving backwards or something and then you're not in a position to convert when it does hit. This is the hardest (practical) DP assist in the game to convert off, so if you're gonna call Fortune you should downback and really look for the hit confirm. Any time you call an assist you take a big risk, so make sure you put yourself in a position to capitalize off it.