Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly. You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section.
The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.
I've seen a lot of hate toward them scattered around Twitter/Discord and not much love. I've seen more than once that snap healing should be nerfed in some way, like make it heal over time instead of instant.
I always thought solos were interesting, there's no safe DHCs, there's no "call lockdown assist and jump in" gameplan, it's just you versus the world.
They just aren't very interesting imo, resetting a solo like 30 times while being able to die from one super isn't very fun for me and lowering my ratio just to kill the solo faster isn't fun either. That said, I would not want solos to change at all since they're polarizing enough as is. I don't really like snap health either but it's been in for so long that idk what would be a suitable change.
Polarizing is right. I'd like for them to be less so, perhaps tone down the damage in exchange for something else that might improve their neutral, but I have absolutely no idea what kind of something else to give them.
I've played Solo Filia since the moment i started playing this game about a year ago. It more or less started purely becuase of personal preference, I'm the kind of person who would prefer to be really good at something than to be decent to good at multiple things at once. Needless to say it was rough trying to get a foothold and it still is today but I would still play Solo Filia regardless because that's just what I find fun.
Having trouble handling too many options, solos feel better for me to play as. Always disliked party J/RPGs for that same reason.
I prefer being able to focus on one.
I think solos would get significantly fewer complaints if they did 1.3 damage ratio instead of 1.45. The risk/reward of playing versus them currently feels pretty heavily skewed, you always have a lengthy uphill battle to keep them locked down in some kind of vortex whereas if they mash on you once it can mean the loss of the character or the game. This being said, I also think the team mechanics in this game are ridiculously, obscenely strong and solos will always be the weakest team size because of that, and so they deserve something. I agree with the general sentiment that they feel extremely polarizing right now, but I also have to agree with Stuff and Missingno's points above that the game has been like this for years and changing it would be a massive upheaval. If they had to change, the best I could think of would be dropping them to 1.3, leaving snap healing untouched, and maybe giving them some kind of dead angle attack on the alpha counter input? Maybe a minor increase to their meter gain?
It just feels like a chore to me is the short of it, lowering their damage wouldn't change much imo and it's happened before and they're still p much the same. Lowering to Duo works but it's the same thing but takes less time.
Basically:
- I don't mind their damage much, it's a lot but in the grand scheme of things it's similar enough.
- They drag out the game for like ever and that's the real problem I have.
- Lowering to duo is still a drag plus I no longer get to play the team I want to play.
- Lowering to solo v solo is honestly way more a drag and now I feel like I just have to do this thing I don't want to do just to win
- Winning doesn't feel fun because you gotta do it again.
Some teams are better equipped vs solo than others much like some solos and duos are better equipped to fight the other ratio than others, that's just how the game is basically.
It's a lot like having your favorite thing to spec into and for most of the game it works and it's fun and then there's the one jerk boss that completely ignores all that and you're no longer spec'd to beat this one which means you have to spec into something you don't like using and isn't remotely fun for you but once you beat the boss you can go back to having fun but times infinity since as long as you play this game you will experience this.
I just want to have as much fun as the solo is having while still playing my trio instead of feeling drag. I feel this way about all other ratios though so idk maybe I'm just a hater, couldn't tell ya.
But yeah, that's just ratios in general, I don't think any change is going to make them more fun to play against since it's all player preference anyway. Every ratio is p polarizing in its own way, that's just how SG is. (Sometimes I really hate fighting 3v3 as much as I hate fighting 3v1, I figure that's just how it goes.)
I could make some suggestions to balance out the team ratios and make them stand out from each other because it might be interesting.
For Solos:
Buffs: ability to cancel out of whiffed bursts for a 1 bar cost, perform GG's fauntless defense, which can also give mix-up protection (essentially Absolute Guard without pushblock), at the cost of a fast drain of meter (even faster if hit multiple times), and cancel out of pushblock via strike invul. dashes, which will last as long as their dash animations (can only be used 3 times in a match).
Nerfs: damage multiplier vs trio reduced to x1.35 while vs duo reduced to x1.40. Snap healing now only heals overtime instead of instant (can increase speed by snapping).
For Duos:
Buffs: when assist is being comboed after a double snap, all systems usually applied to point character applies to the assist, after which when the assist bursts, they're invulnerable until they switch out with the point character. Duos can now cancel their specials into an Alpha attack (alpha counter, but done while comboing. Alpha attack assists gain plus frames on hit + block. costs 1 bar). Duos can now choose to tag in through assists (another form of alpha attack. costs 1 bar), in the air (will lock assist calls longer than when on the ground and will lose some recoverable health), and when the assist bursts (assist can remain point unless alpha counter). Duos also don't lose the remaining recoverable health when tagging. Duos can also call their assist twice in a combo(doing so will scale the 2nd assist call in a combo heavily). Their damage multiplier vs solos is raised to x1.35.
Nerfs: when assist is comboed, they don't get recoverable health and the snapped point character doesn't heal during it. Their damage multiplier vs trios is reduced to x1.25.
For Trios:
Buffs: damage multiplier vs solos is increased to x1.20 and x1.10 vs duos. Trios can now have air normals and specials as assists (only count as mids on block). Trios can now gain 30% of recoverable health overtime to an extent by snapping opponents (doing so as the same point character will instantly heal all recoverable health even if it has not reached the limit).
Nerfs: trios will not heal the 30% of recoverable health from snapbacks if they tag out. List any other nerfs I couldn't think of.
For a sort of comeback mechanic for bigger ratios against lower ones, whenever a character on their team is down (or quite the opposite in valentine's case), the remaining character(s) will gain the mechanics of the lower ratios by trios to duo to solo (except their respective health modifiers and damage multipliers).
What do you think about these proposed changes to the ratio systems? Let me know.
I could make some suggestions to balance out the team ratios and make them stand out from each other because it might be interesting.
For Solos:
Buffs: ability to cancel out of whiffed bursts for a 1 bar cost, perform GG's fauntless defense, which can also give mix-up protection (essentially Absolute Guard without pushblock), at the cost of a fast drain of meter (even faster if hit multiple times), and cancel out of pushblock via strike invul. dashes, which will last as long as their dash animations (can only be used 3 times in a match).
Nerfs: damage multiplier vs trio reduced to x1.35 while vs duo reduced to x1.40. Snap healing now only heals overtime instead of instant (can increase speed by snapping).
For Duos:
Buffs: when assist is being comboed after a double snap, all systems usually applied to point character applies to the assist, after which when the assist bursts, they're invulnerable until they switch out with the point character. Duos can now choose to tag in through assists (costs 1 bar), in the air (will lock assist calls longer than when on the ground and will lose some recoverable health), and when the assist bursts (assist can remain point unless alpha counter). Duos also don't lose the remaining recoverable health when tagging. Duos can also call their assist twice in a combo(doing so will scale the 2nd assist call in a combo heavily). Their damage multiplier vs solos is raised to x1.35.
Nerfs: when assist is comboed, they don't get recoverable health and the snapped point character doesn't heal during it. Their damage multiplier vs trios is reduced to x1.25.
For Trios:
Buffs: damage multiplier vs solos is increased to x1.20 and x1.10 vs duos. Trios can now have air normals and specials as assists (only count as mids on block). Trios can now gain 30% of recoverable health overtime to an extent by snapping opponents (doing so as the same point character will instantly heal all recoverable health even if it has not reached the limit).
Nerfs: trios will not heal the 30% of recoverable health from snapbacks if they tag out. List any other nerfs I couldn't think of.
For a sort of comeback mechanic for bigger ratios against lower ones, whenever a character on their team is down (or quite the opposite in valentine's case), the remaining character(s) will gain the mechanics of the lower ratios by trios to duo to solo (except their respective health modifiers and damage multipliers).
What do you think about these proposed changes to the ratio systems? Let me know.
Of anyone im definitely someone who'd like a shakeup, but it seems like a lot. Id much rather see 1 or 2 fairly elaborated mechanics over more fiddly intricate mechanics for team makeup.
@Nezo mentioned downs as a part of battles overall for solos rather than just solo vs solo. Subtle but solid change. Already went through hardships some solos have inherently which I'm sure Nezo can articulate better, but an additional defensive option like making snap a no-damage Invuln f1 super. Baitable/punishable, but also gets people off via neutral reset you can't combo off of. After at least 1 hit (no free wakeup offense), hold to make it a high wallbounce hittable in the air, refreshing OTG & giving some undizzy back for one extra string.
Right there, you'd have a new defensive & offensive mechanic in something we already use.
Like we went over a while ago, solos will always have tactical drawbacks but one of the main issues is lack of creativity. Teams let you do more flat out. There's no RC-mechanic letting you cancel or link into more stuff for meter. Gives much more impetus to play characters without great defensive tools solo as well.
Skull Heart as an actual solo feature. Picking Skullgirl version of your character with aggressive health drain in exchange for better frame data & EX move properties. Snaps dont heal; moderate health gain on-hit only. Slap on a cute aura/intro effect & the skullheart asset umbrella/marie use -- voila, something new & fun for solos as well.
Of anyone im definitely someone who'd like a shakeup, but it seems like a lot. Id much rather see 1 or 2 fairly elaborated mechanics over more fiddly intricate mechanics for team makeup.
@Nezo mentioned downs as a part of battles overall for solos rather than just solo vs solo. Subtle but solid change. Already went through hardships some solos have inherently which I'm sure Nezo can articulate better, but an additional defensive option like making snap a no-damage Invuln f1 super. Baitable/punishable, but also gets people off via neutral reset you can't combo off of. Hold to make it a high wallbounce refreshing OTG & giving some undizzy back for one extra string.
Right there, you'd have a new defensive & offensive mechanic in something we already use.
Like we went over a while ago, solos will always have tactical drawbacks but one of the main issues is lack of creativity. Teams let you do more flat out. There's no RC-mechanic letting you cancel or link into more stuff for meter. Gives much more impetus to play characters without great defensive tools solo as well.
Skull Heart as an actual solo feature. Picking Skullgirl version of your character with aggressive health drain in exchange for better frame data & EX move properties. Snaps dont heal; moderate health gain on-hit only. Slap on a cute aura/intro effect & the skullheart asset umbrella/marie use -- voila, something new & fun for solos as well.
Now that I think about it, my proposed changes do seem like a lot but I mainly did it to differentiate and give different advantages and disadvantages to each ratio, basically make every ratio as viable against each other as possible. These changes cover different aspects of the ratios, like duos for example. The changes I made to duos are tag in themed, making the duo characters work together in combat by taking turns on offense and defense. Duos lose a lot more than trios when they get double snapped because they now have to make more efforts in getting a comeback without their partner backing them up, acting more like solos without significant damage boosts to make up for it. Speaking of solos, I heard that they are heavily polarizing against bigger ratios (especially against trios) mainly because of their health pool and damage multiplier. They are a double edge sword in that they can wipe out entire teams just with their long combos but they don't have anything to defend against their offensive pressure. Fighting against a solo will sometimes not be fun and fair at all if bigger ratios had to do resets a bunch of times just to kill them when the solo can just kill them with many stray hits or big damage supers (assuming damage scaling is not taken into account) or if the solo can't do anything to escape pressure without taking a huge risk to do so. That is why I proposed changes for them so that they are less polarizing to fight against and so that they still have more chances to fight back. For Trios, they have huge advantages in utility so I get why they do so much less damage than lower ratios but with the changes for lower ratios, they might be at a disadvantage in terms of advantages lower ratios will have against them. For that reason I gave them changes that could benefit trios and give them a leg up in gameplay.
This doesn't mean that these change should be implemented into the game, as it could disrupt the gameplay flow Skullgirls is known for. As you said before, they are fiddly intricate mechanics as they seem to be for each ratio but should these ratio mechanics be implemented, they should be reasonably balanced and integrated into the existing system mechanics and maybe some of my proposed changes for each ratio shouldn't be implemented (but we can't ignore the fact that solos do need some changes for benefit's sake). I know this game is 11 years old, but we do need a shake up sometimes for refreshment should it not be disruptive to the existing game flow.
P.S: the skullheart as a solo mechanic makes for some fun modifier battles (if Skullgirls implements modifier battles from challenge mode to local play).
Honestly, I think Solos are alright and they need more love, but that might just be bias, considering I constantly go Solo Umbrella. But what do I know?
Plus I'm trash so the extra health and damage is good
My takes for Solo-specific changes are the following:
1. Solo Damage should be toned down. Somewhere in-between where it is now and damage for Duos. At least to the point where two-touching Trios is much harder to do if not impossible without meter.
2. Solos should have something equivalent to a DHC. My thoughts were not being able to cancel super into super, but rather super into nothing. A neutral state so that you can get your turn back. Maybe have a set blockstun for all supers when this cancel is performed.
3. If my two ideas above were to be implemented, then I believe Solo Meter Gain should also be looked at. Decrease meter gain during your combos, but increased meter gain while being combo'd.
4. Solo Health is fine, but regenerable health should be a gradual thing over time rather than immediate on snap. My idea would be that snapping a character would give you this "buff" for the rest of the match.
I'm with @Nuuance in saying that I think this game could use something a bit refreshing mechanics wise, and where else to give that attention to than the most "boring" way to play the game: Solos.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
