What to learn/practice as a beginner Bella?

[axiom1]

So I play solo Bella and lately I've been having a lot of trouble with online play.

My games tend to fall into two categories: completely destroy my opponent with a few combos, or get owned by some hard hitting combos and tricky resets/mixups that I have no idea how to recognize and block.

My technique and combo knowledge is very limited, but I can do the Night Phyre flowchart beginner combo very consistently (I win my games by just doing this over and over again against opponents who constantly do unsafe things).

I could obviously benefit by learning stronger combos and more resets/mixups, but I feel like there is something more fundamental lacking in my game. I lose most of my games by a huge margin, and I don't think being able to dish out an extra 1k damage per combo will really fix that.

So basically, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to work on next. Aside from practicing technical stuff like combos, resets, and mixups, what else can I do to improve my game?

 

[Age]

It sounds like you're reaching beyond the beginner level.

The basic flowchart combo is all you will need for a long time. Don't worry about learning the higher damage stuff unless you just find combos fun to train.

The people who constantly do unsafe things are beginners. Against you (and others who know how to punish stuff) they will hang themselves with unsafe moves, or not blocking. You need to start working out how to land damage on people who know what is unsafe and won't give you opportunities so easily.

You also identify resets/mixups as something you struggle against, so you could work on your defense too.

Depending how much you know about mixups, you should educate yourself either on basics like
-what are high and low attacks
-crossups
-tick throws
-what defends against these
-when you get hit by a reset/mixup *what types of defense would have worked*

Or if you already know all that stuff, start keeping track of the common mixups and resets that each character can use, and keep an eye on your opponent's tendencies to figure out what they might not be prepared for. If someone crouch-blocks a lot, try hitting them with grabs or overheads, and so on.

As far as something fundamental you might be lacking? Neutral game is the broad term for what happens when neither person is getting combo'd or in a blockstring. Figuring out how to move, when to throw out attacks, and how to punish smaller and smaller mistakes is a tough process, but it's pretty fundamental to getting really good.

 

[Dime]

@axiom1

Ill answer the "what else can i do to get better" question:

Simply put, the best thing for you to do will be to grab an assist. This will make you better able to punish assists with your own counter calls, gives you safer offense via empty jump with assist. And lets you know another characters style which goes a long way toward better knowledge of the game. Not all characters "see" the game through the same glasses, and you'd be surprised how different your playing experience can be. Solo characters are good and can compete, but they can also be horribly locked down and kept out much easier than teams.

If you absolutely dont want to play a team, then i would say that you are going to really have to go into training mode and practice moving specifically to avoid assists and to practice punishing them hard.

Also, i dont know what the flow hart combo is, but it would be good if you develop a combo that can either kill a trio character in one hit (dont know if this is possible) or a combo that can kill a duo character in one reset. No matter what, you should be killing trio characters in one reset with 1 meter, better if you can kill them in one reset with no meter, but if not it isnt a big deal, bella makes a lot of meter during her combos and if you kill the first 2 characters in one reset each and the last character in one combo with a lvl 3, then thats only 5 hits it takes to kill the team assuming no propped combos or neutral game damage like headbutt or random f+hp

If you can kill a duo character in one reset, thats generally speaking only 4 hits... But that isnt with undizzy... It will probably take more hits to kill them.

But yeah i would work on either of those things. Also, in general, the better your combos the easier it is to win... Just felt like that had to be said :)

 

[Broseidon Rex]

Throw in some resets during the flow chart combo. There's plenty of opportunities to go for resets at almost any point in that.

 

[IsaVulpes]

What to learn/practice as a beginner?

it would be good if you develop a combo that can either kill a trio character in one hit (dont know if this is possible) or a combo that can kill a duo character in one reset.

the better your combos the easier it is to win... Just felt like that had to be said :)

#SkullGirls

There is more to life than combos

 

[Vadsamoht]

If you've already got a BnB that you can land consistently, then my advice would be simple.

Learn Defence. Learn you character's Neutral. Only then start working on maximizing your combos.

 

[obregon]

Think about defense (push blocking, reversals, teching, chicken blocking, and push block guard cancel) and punishes after every match you lose. Go in training mode and see if some chain or abusive normal or general line of attack they used can be disrupted by proper defense and turned into damage for you.

also,

Learn other characters. The best way to really get a matchup in any fighter is to be able to play a decent flowchart version of the other character, and with the small roster of Skullgirls it is feasible to do it.

 

[Dagwood]

So I play solo Bella and lately I've been having a lot of trouble with online play.

Step 1: Get whopped
Step 2: A DIAMOND IS FOREVER!
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!

 

[View619]

Defense and neutral; these are far more important than optimized combos at any level imo. As a beginner, once you learn a simple BnB don't worry about combos until you have an understanding of these two things. Having a ToD is pointless if you can never survive long enough to get the hit.

 

[Dime]

Defense and neutral; these are far more important than optimized combos at any level imo. As a beginner, once you learn a simple BnB don't worry about combos until you have an understanding of these two things. Having a ToD is pointless if you can never survive long enough to get the hit.

Which is why i mentioned assists and movement before i mentioned combos. However unless someone... Such as yourself can actually tell someone things that will actually up there defense, you arent really saying anything by telling someone that defense is important... You have to tell them HOW to make their defense better:

To me it would mean:

Learn to pbgc through known opponent lockdowns
Learn where to reversal that is of a high likelihood to hit
Learn ambiguous movement to keep oneself out of opponents assist traps as much as possible
Learn opponent mixups and use autoguard to defend against high/low mixups and reversals into safe dhc to defend against high/low mixups and sometimes ac to defend in general.

After that... I dont really know how to increase defense... Could you tell me? Cause from where I'm sitting most stuff is a guess. And guesses dont necessarily get better, knowledge of the game gets better and therfor decisions can be educated guessed against... But thats upping knowledge, not defense. It works for offense as well. And i said to play another character to increase his knowledge.

And finally all that stuff takes a lot of time, simply mentioning it doesnt help anyone.

But what takes a lot less time is improving ones combos. Therefor, for a beginner one of THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO, is to learn better combos, combos as strict as possible for the person to do with an 80% success rate

They go hand in hand. You learn one and slack off on the other and you will suck for it. Getting the hit and having no combos? Look at Max's sg vids to see how that works out.

Its pretty much always imperative to learn both at the same time. And i did help him out by telling him to grab an assist... The fastest way to start hitting people easier AS WELL AS stop them from hitting him, is to grab an assist. That shit is like an sfxt defense gem... Shit just gets higher with one available.

 

[Zidiane]

I would suggest getting comfortable with the game before anything. Gain more experience, and all the while work on understanding what your opponent can and can't do (and what you can do about it). Also, whenever you feel comfortable, before during or after your learning of the other characters capabilities, learn a reset. Even a simple one, like Diamond Drop thrown in somewhere or something. After that, you can worry about the higher level combos and resets. As for reference material if you need it, there are vids of me playing solo bella floating around different places you could watch (on youtube probably, but I also appear regularly at Game underground, in my sig), and the guide I wrote if you feel you need some help with something (I'm actually adding a "Solo Bella" section to it soon).

 

[obregon]

After that... I dont really know how to increase defense... Could you tell me?

intermediate level defense is not like high level defense. Mid level players are generally just abusing the shit out of one attack pattern they have figured out, like Vals that only do jump-in j.HP xx airdash j.HP for a crossup if you don't push the first j.HP and blockstun pressure if you do. So you go into training mode after that guy beats you, record a Val doing that, figure out the basics (like what ranges they can get the crossup from) and start working on ways to stuff it for your character. When you play that guy again you have fucked up his main gameplan and he's at like 50% power. There will certainly be a way to counter your counter that he'll get in a game or two but you are learning to stop guys from getting their Plan A for free (and you both end up better players than when you started).

 

[fastturtle]

I agree with everybody suggesting to practice defense. Learn when to pushblock and try to bait that unsafe stuff that you're already punishing or, preferably, find a way in on them during that neutral game after the pushblock. Pay attention to what your opponent tends to do and expect a reset or a tick throw at a certain time. I know it's hard when you don't have a 1v1 because the round is over so quickly, but for example, if a Filia is mashing Gregor during your combos and is hitting you if you drop it or go for a reset, purposely drop it and block so you can punish.

But the main thing is to remember what certain resets look like and block/punish them properly. If Valentine does more than one hit of lk during an air combo, know that she is going to cross under and either go low or grab. Know that you can time a double jump out of that situation and punish whatever she goes for. Obviously there's more to it, but it comes down to just playing more and being smart. Don't worry so much about your combos, worry about your neutral game. Also think about picking up another character. You'll know what that character does and the resets they go for if you play them. Assists are rad, too.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

So how helpful would it be to open up a training room online and just request people to combo the hell out of me? I figure that might be a good way to focus solely on defense.

 

[axiom1]

Thanks for the responses guys.

For combos, I am really only concerned with knowing one that is "good enough" but not necessarily great.

As I mentioned, I can do the "novice" one from Night Phyre's flowchart (its in a thread on this subforum). I can also do the "advanced" one in training mode reasonably well, and I'm working on getting it down in game. I'm hoping that this combo will be good enough for what I'm after.

I do intend to keep learning more advanced combos, and it is inevitable that with time I will learn better ones. What is not inevitable is that I will learn stuff like neutral game if I don't figure out how to practice it.

For now I am totally OK with losing games due to using combos that do 1k damage less than they should be doing because that problem is easily diagnosable.

What I'm not OK with is being zero to deathed in a corner or zoned out by Peacock/Parasoul all game. Or being stuck in that Painwheel blockstring that everyone seems to use (where she flies up very low, does some air attack, then drops and does a couple low attacks, back into quick flying attack ad nauseum).

I'm going to start recording my games with OBS so that I can start identifying blockstrings, resets and mixups.

I am also interested in picking up a second character, but I wouldn't know who to go with. Might try Parasoul because she's got dem legs Kreygasm. But in all seriousness, what are some characters that complement Bella?

 

[Hilary]

So basically, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to work on next. Aside from practicing technical stuff like combos, resets, and mixups, what else can I do to improve my game?

I really recommend focusing on defense. Worldjem's guide on defense is invaluable. Practice all the techniques in it, and really ask yourself after every fight how you implemented them.

The reason I say this is that an overwhelming majority of the community is focuses on combos or aggression, which means you never run out of diverse opportunities to practice defense. It's not that defense is better than offense, it's that it's the most accessible thing to train considering the metagame/environment, and is a solid foundation for building your offense later.

More importantly, you're going to have a weak offense yourself starting out, which means that the better players can simply capitalize on unsafe/risky things you may not know you're doing or have read you well enough to capitalize on your choices anyways. You get more time out of the game with better players that way, and it guarantees you're in the best mindset for learning from your losses.

Two important things happen with enough time on this; one, you do not crack under offensive pressure, and two, you get better at a very under-utilized part of the game that effectively robs the worse players of the only thing they've practiced.

When it comes to offense, you can watch a lot of matches to get an idea of combo flows (i.e., how much damage you should expect good combos to do, how far they carry, etc.) and pressure/rushdown happens from different spacing, but you'll ultimately have to come up with your own tricks, approaches, and setups.

In this stage, I would focus less on combos/damage and really pay attention to when/how you got in and hit someone that was trying to defend. If you lose a match but know that you got 3-4 touches that opened someone up, you know that with some time in the training room you'll have combos that kill characters or win rounds. However, the inverse isn't necessarily true; you could have the best combo in the world and never get to apply it if you don't have the defense to survive someone else's pressure or offense/approach to get the opener.

glhf. <3

 

[fastturtle]

What I'm not OK with is being zero to deathed in a corner or zoned out by Peacock/Parasoul all game. Or being stuck in that Painwheel blockstring that everyone seems to use (where she flies up very low, does some air attack, then drops and does a couple low attacks, back into quick flying attack ad nauseum).

I am also interested in picking up a second character, but I wouldn't know who to go with. Might try Parasoul because she's got dem legs Kreygasm. But in all seriousness, what are some characters that complement Bella?

a) Diamond Deflector is a great way to get Peacock/Parasoul to at least stop spamming for a little even if it doesn't hit. I usually try to DD Peacock's slow bomb or a predictable air bomb. Same with Parasoul - even if she blocks the diamond that comes back at her, she has to stop using projectiles so that gives you a chance to dash jump in.

b)Pushblock Painwheel's cr.hp before she cancels it into the fly xx j.lk to get out of the blockstring. All of her multi hitting air normals need to be pushblocked on the last hit.

c) I use Parasoul with Napalm Pillar to compliment Bella and I feel like it works very well. It helps her in the neutral game when Double tries to j.hp in or when a Painwheel is going in too hard. You can also combo into cr.mp xx kanchou feint/run stop + Napalm Pillar for a good, (mostly) safe reset. Or if you choose to use Napalm Shot or Bike, she can cover a lot of the long range that Bella has trouble controlling. Cerecopter is useful in Parasoul's zoning as well as being used mid-combo. You can use Battletoads as a get off me or Excellebella or Devil Horns for some neat things. They're a pretty good shell IMO. I support the Parasoul decision.

Also be aware that I haven't tried any other characters with Bella so my opinion is a little uninformed on what's possible with other characters, although I do see a lot of people using Double Butt in combo videos and that is still a godlike assist so you could want to consider Double as well.

 

[Hilary]

What I'm not OK with is being zero to deathed in a corner or zoned out by Peacock/Parasoul all game. Or being stuck in that Painwheel blockstring that everyone seems to use (where she flies up very low, does some air attack, then drops and does a couple low attacks, back into quick flying attack ad nauseum).

I'm going to start recording my games with OBS so that I can start identifying blockstrings, resets and mixups.

I am also interested in picking up a second character, but I wouldn't know who to go with. Might try Parasoul because she's got dem legs. But in all seriousness, what are some characters that complement Bella?

I can't really recommend anything regarding team-building for Bella, but regarding painwheel pressure, I strongly recommend identifying the block strings they use consistently.

1. [c.LK, c.MK, s.HP xx Fly, j.LK, rinse repeat] is the most common. If this is what you're seeing, pushblock the c.MK or the j.LK and most of the rest will either whiff entirely, or be too far for the subsequent flight cancel into j.LK to be a threat. While I don't recommend reversal supers starting out, I will say that Painwheel is extremely vulnerable to Dynamo during up-close flight cancels.

2. [c.LK xx Fly, j.LK, c.LK, etc.] This one is really nasty, and relatively uncommon online. I generally look to pushblock the j.LK from the fly.

 

[View619]

How to defend

Basic level defense is simply:

1) Learn how to block and understand why blocking is the best choice in certain situations, for example you can't keep holding up vs opponents who go for lows to punish, or mashing reversal against opponents blocking behind assists for continued pressure.
2) Pay attention to attack chains and learn how to reversal at key points (Ultimate Show Stopper on sloppy enders, Diamond Dynamo vs PW Flight chains, etc).
3) Learn how to PUSH BLOCK and understand why mashing it at every opportunity isn't the best option; also goes with learning how to punish.

Basic level neutral is simply:

1) Figure out what you can do at mid-range and make use of the tools available.
2) Figure out how to approach intelligently without holding up-forward and rushing into invincible assists or anti-air.
3) Learn why working for an advantage at neutral is good and why the game isn't just about getting up close and landing combos!

I feel like new players fall into the trap of "I need a combo and must focus on getting up close and landing it at any cost" and never understand how to approach intelligently and play the neutral well enough so they don't die/get locked down before they ever get a chance to land the combo in the first place. Combos are nice, but you need to understand how to play the game in order to land that hit.

 

[Dime]

Well... Ive never been accused of having the greatest neutral in airdashers :( Streetfighter is a different story... But when i have an assist its like walking around with a loaded gun... I just gots to pop some caps.

I guess that is a part of the problem...

But, er idk... Buttons r fun. Whereas, down/upback and bait all day isnt so much, unless there are things that one can do to get to the point. Maybe my problem with this game is that people want more neutral... But there are so few good neutral tools... Moves have small range and projectiles tend to be super linear except in peacocks case... Idk. Just looking at the game it just screams "get in" but i digress.

 

[axiom1]

Step 1: Get whopped
Step 2: A DIAMOND IS FOREVER!
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!

I've been incorporating this into my game a lot recently.

At first I thought you were joking, but it has definitely helped me to learn how to use that attack.

Landing it midscreen and going into a combo off of it is seriously awesome and almost always kills.

 

[axiom1]

How do you guys practice defense?

I'm getting wrecked by Filias and Valentines who are good with resets and mixups.

 

[Fedora_Ninja]

You can:
1. Practice against those vals and filias and keep getting wrecked until you recognize their reset/mixup patterns and learn to block/escape them.
2. Set a training dummy to record the mixup/reset and keep playing it back till you find effective ways to escape it. (Be it pushblock, up backing, throw teching or blocking crossup) Then keep practicing escaping it till you are able to do it on reaction.
3. Be a scrub and mash out super.