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Winning without combos?

What do you think?

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Fumako

Fumako

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Big Band Peacock
Hey guys!
After lurking around for a few days I decided to ask something that's been bugging me...
Can you win a match without long combos? (My definition of long is anything over 11 hits...)
I ask this because I'm worried about fighting online. I am patient enough to be able to lose over and over and I do learn a bit from my mistakes. However, I just find it impossible to perform combos. I play as Valentine so I'm worried about this because her damage isn't really that spectacular. I do fine against the AI, but I notice a lot of moments where I'd get punished if I were fighting against another person.
I think my biggest obstacles are the following:
-My inability to combo.
-My inability to do mix-ups.
-My incompetence at hitting opponents after launching them up.
-The fact that I can't block most of the time.

Please note that I've been practicing non-stop. I have a general feel of Valentine's moves and I act on instinct, but I just can't combo them. :(
So... is it possible to at least win against people in intermediate lobbies without half decent combos?

Additional things:
-My thumbs hurt after hours of practicing quarter-circle moves.
-My current combo is:
lp, lp, mp, mp, mp, qcb, p

I wish I was a dolphin.
 
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Also, I think it's important to say that me and fighting games...? Yeah, we never got along well. It all ended with a few too many button mashings and a restraining order. I've never seen her since. Let's just say that I've grown up a bit and I'm finally get ready to be in a serious relationship.
 
Yes, it's possible to win without long combos
But SG combos are easy, really easy
So if you are screwing up combos, you won't be able to move, do specials when you want to, pressure, mixup, *anything*, .. either.
So no, you won't win against anyone who isn't a complete beginner

You have not been practicing nonstop, and most definitely not with the right mindset
 
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IsaVulpes said:
"REDACTED" would be a permaban if I was a Moderator. Luckily for most people here, I'm not.
This is just Vulpes' way of welcoming you to the forum! ;D

Play Big Band if you don't want to do combos, you can probably beat beginner players by just mashing his rush punches/super. But, it won't get you very far. And just buy the game, it's $15 ffs.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Words
Thanks for the input! I have been practicing nonstop, but I guess I'm just not in the right mind set... But my fingers stop working after about 3 attacks that chain together.

Also the bit about asking for a copy was supposed to be removed but I had to go away for a few minutes while rereading it and forgot to remove it. So, sorry about that :P I can't even buy 2+ games a year...

Icky said:
This is just Vulpes' way of welcoming you to the forum! ;D

Play Big Band if you don't want to do combos, you can probably beat beginner players by just mashing his rush punches/super. But, it won't get you very far. And just buy the game, it's $15 ffs.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm hated now. Also thanks for the input!
I really wish I could buy the game. But if I could I would've done so a long time ago.
 
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Removed some stuff from everyone's posts.

Also Fumako, you aren't hated. Vulpes is just very... outspoken.
 
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If "11 hits" is considered long, does that mean you don't use supers either?
 
i was just thinking perhaps valentine is the wrong character to play if 11 hits is the upper limits. jk

cerebella would probs be a good beginner character. none of her combos really require much in the way of button presses.
 
As someone who uses very short combos himself, I can say that yes, you can win without long combos. You won't reach the very top level of play, but being a solid intermediate is definitely achievable. Granted, what's lacking in combos needs to be compensated with other tools (such as zoning, a decent neutral game, good use of specials/supers, armor, team tools), but that's something that should come with time.

Also, some characters are likely easier to be used and more efficient in a non-combo-heavy style of playing. Characters such as Valentine, Fortune of Filia will have more of a problem since they need those combos to be a force to be reckoned with, but Peacock (replacing close up combos with keepaway zoning) or Cerebella/Band (concentrating on command grabs, armored specials and generally slower but hard hitting attacks) can manage in this world fairly well.
 
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Don't worry, vulpes DOES hate you, just like he hates every one else (still, man, that was a bit brutal)
 
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It's pretty much like most fighting games in that combos exist to reward players with superior execution. You can win without combos, since techincally all combos do is increase the damage you deal per hit, but don't do anything to make landing those hits in the first place easier. So if you outfox/outplay your opponent you can still win, you'll just have to outfox/outplay him more than he does you if he has superior combos.

At any rate, I don't recommend attempting to win without combos. In a competitive game, you want all the advantages you can get, and trying to hold off on utilizing certain things can often be very crippling regardless of how inconsequential they may seem. If you simply don't have the time or skills (yet) to master certain aspects of the game, than you can simply put those aspects off until later and in the mean time play with others who are at a similar level of play with the game.

Fumako said:
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm hated now. Also thanks for the input!
I really wish I could buy the game. But if I could I would've done so a long time ago.

Nah don't worry, you've recovered with dignity and class.

As for the game, just wait for dat Steam summer sale.
 
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What's a combo
 
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DDB said:
What's a combo

Webster defines combo as mashing j.mp with Filia while an assist assist her or at least it's what I do

Anyways I believe it just takes the right mindset maybe it comes from not remembering what comes next in a combo
anyway when I want to learn combos I break them up into sections like playing a piano though I'm not sure you play piano so that concept may fly out the window but anything Is possible hell with Valley you can do a 12 hit combo into flatline off of s.lp-s.mp-s.hk and still wreak a couple of charlatans assuming you single valley-girl and they double or triple up
 
Getting started in your first fighting game is an uphill battle. Hang in there.
 
Start with a short combo you CAN do that, if at all possible, follows light medium heavy special super sequence.
Do that until you have it solid, I don't mean grind it 100% in training mode, do it there a bit, go play some matches, focus on trying to play the match, when you get in, try your combo.

Your execution will improve as you play and integrate your baby steps into the game, then you'll find it easier to work your way up to slightly better combos and neutral.
 
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You can certainly win without combos! Just charge Big Band a hell of a lot! I wonder if Salty should have a combo-less exhibition to test the hypothesis of this question.
 
Only if you're playing another beginner or your skill level is so much greater than your opponent's that the match is really easy. If you don't want to learn combos, play a character like Big Band, Peacock or Bella.
 
In theory, you could win with nothing but specials, super and the LMH strings.

BUT it'll demand you to be an ace in different areas: reading, reaction, positioning and strategy.

You could win just by punishing enemy mistakes with heavy attacks, but you should punish EVERY SINGLE MISTAKE and never lower your guard.


On the bright side, these competences are the most important in any fighting game, so you'll become a superior player overall practicing it
 
I would suggest that trying to win without long combos is the wrong way of thinking about it. As long as you're consciously trying to pull off a combo that you know should work, you're getting practice whether you're aware of it or not. A lot of it is just practice and application. At a point your ability to successfully pull off a combo becomes a given; it's not something you have to debate yourself about during a match once you've played long enough.

As other people have pointed out, combos are only important as far as maximizing the amount of damage you get off of a successful hit. They're important, but they aren't everything, so I would say it's more important to learn and understand the interaction between players at neutral or blocking under pressure rather than learning a combo (which essentially boils down to muscle memory with some decision-making in-between in the end, maybe that's an oversimplification).

Also, combos aren't just about length or the number of hits. In fact, Skullgirls has systems in place (IPS, Undizzy/Drama) specifically to counteract combos that drag on too long or deal too much damage. So combos are important, but they aren't everything, and learning combos comes naturally with practice and play, whereas other aspects are more difficult for beginners to pick up on if they're focused solely on comboing.
 
gold163 said:
I would suggest that trying to win without long combos is the wrong way of thinking about it.
well, I can tell trying to win WITH long combos is a bad idea too. I do all the optimized cerebella shit, I spend most of my time in train mode finding new ones, and now I pretty much suck more than before cause I can't neutral :^/
 
dragonos451 said:
well, I can tell trying to win WITH long combos is a bad idea too. I do all the optimized cerebella shit, I spend most of my time in train mode finding new ones, and now I pretty much suck more than before cause I can't neutral :^/
I'm so sorry. T_T
 
Yeah, playing without long combos and winning is quite possible.

Peacock, Cerebella and Big Band are best suited for it as Peacock is more about using projectiles and the other two can pack quite a punch even in single hits.
 
Back then I had a mindset of doing long combos from SDE, but when I made the change to Encore, I actually found it easy to adjust and hard at the same time. It was easy to get the newer mechanics, but it became hard to adjust the other players constantly using DP assist and DP attacks, their neutrals were better than mine. So I'm betting combo less wins are possible, depending on your definition of combos which could be:
1. The number of time you press buttons to connect new hits or
2. The amount of hits are on the screen.
 
It is possible to win with short combos. Justin Wong does it everytime he plays this game. I do it all the time whenever a beginner enters my lobby ( I put expert on there I don't understand why they challenge me). However, in my opinion having shorter combos and no resets means you have to work that much harder to win. Your combo is really short so you don't do too much damage, since all you do is LMH you don't have a setup where your opponent has to fear more from you (you just hit them few times then get out). That's a problem because one its going to take forever to kill and you give your opponent too many opportunities to play.
 
win against the computers and beginners - yes
win against top players - no *exception of solid zoning peacock*
 
MegamanDS said:
win against top players - no *exception of solid zoning peacock*
Stupid cocks>:^( So hard to evade, you should go with her for non combos.
 
Muro said:
As someone who uses peacock himself, I can say that yes, you can win without long combos. You won't reach the very top level of play, but being a solid intermediate is definitely achievable. Granted, what's lacking in combos needs to be compensated with other tools (such as zoning, a decent neutral game, good use of specials/supers, armor, team tools), but that's something that should come with time.

Also, some characters are likely easier to be used and more efficient in a non-combo-heavy style of playing. Characters such as Valentine, Fortune of Filia will have more of a problem since they need those combos to be a force to be reckoned with, but Peacock (replacing close up combos with keepaway zoning) or Cerebella/Band (concentrating on command grabs, armored specials and generally slower but hard hitting attacks) can manage in this world fairly well.
fixed. back to question.

you can...but most of the time you'll get rekt. i mean sure with filia you can mash iad j hp and j hk and it will net you some wins but later....you gon need combos
 
Yes you can win doing short combos but it's not optimal obviously. Since you're a beginner I would recommend playing solo cerebella. You get the benefit of the damage of a solo character, the damage of cerebella, and easy resets.

Your bnb combo can be:
Cr. Lk, Cr. Mp, Cr. Hp
J. Mp, j. Hk
Cr. Mp, st. Hk (hits twice) XX dp. Hp XX qcf. PP

If the first hit confirm chain is blocked, you can qcf P command grab XX qcf PP super.

At the very end of the combo, you can cancel the second hit of St. Hk into a qcb. P command grab XX qcf P super.

This is what I personally did when learning the game and it will really help training you to be a better player.
 
Muro said:
Also, some characters are likely easier to be used and more efficient in a non-combo-heavy style of playing. Characters such as Valentine, Fortune of Filia will have more of a problem since they need those combos to be a force to be reckoned with, but Peacock (replacing close up combos with keepaway zoning) or Cerebella/Band (concentrating on command grabs, armored specials and generally slower but hard hitting attacks) can manage in this world fairly well.

Valentine, Fortune, and Filia are like the three best characters for getting a lot of damage from linked heavy chains in early combo stages while undizzy is still low and resetting before stage 3 or 5.

Duckator is probably the best example of constant resets with Val/Filia, but Sev's Filia, Khaos' Fortune/Filia, and Mike's Filia (if you can find tape) are really good examples of it too.

On topic, other good examples of that kind of play outside of those three characters would definitely have to include Fuzzy_Snugs' Squigly, Skarmand's Peacock, Sage's Double, and Keninblack's Parasoul in the corner.
 
MegamanDS said:
win against the computers and beginners - yes
win against top players - no *exception of solid zoning peacock*
Basically this, yeah.

And if you're playing Peacock, having some combo skill only helps, particularly when she dies and you're left with the rest of your team.
 
I didn't read this but I don't have a SINGLE combo and bitches still wrecked. Just having a good neutral and countering everything works but you're in for a long fight. Gotta have resets or something.

(Not to mention everyone becomes a weenie if all you do is counter.)
 
Combos aren't the winning factor, the winning factor is defense.

Of course people who do long combos know how to break the defense.
 
Ive done that a few times, it works.Even in broken naruto storm 3 you could win entire matches without even using your log gauge because the game allows you to run around your enemy after pressing circle once.

in skullgirls there are so many comboless options, grabs deal good damage even with combo oriented characters, projectiles and heavy moves galore.This game rewards you for dropping combos while at the same time giving you the option to improve your combat skills without completely dominating the other opponent.
 
I would imagine that winning Skullgirls matches consistently without long combos would be similar in a way to winning Street Fighter 4 matches consistently as Ryu without ever using hadokens: it would totally be possible, but not having them would be a hindrance.

As these guys have been saying, Fighting Games are hard for every player to get into at first (we were all beginners at some point), but with enough patience and practice, you will be able to stand your own in the pantheon of online play, so much luck to you :)
 
Really tight set ups and resets and coordinated assist calls are as hard as combos in this game. If you can't combo you probably don't have any dirty resets. Just spend 20 hours learning how to combo in this game and you're good to go.

Also here is a really good reason to know combos, punishes. If someone finds out you can't do more than 3k damage for a punish it becomes a lot more reasonable just to throw out supers or updo xx gregor or hk fiber. The person who knows the combo only needs to guess right once in order to make up for the damage they would take for 2 bad calls. It might not seem like much, but in a high level match a punish will usually mean a dead character.
 
Actually you do need quite a few hours to understand the way combos work in this game if you've never played anything like it. I could reliably do 1 and 2 frame links in sf4 before playing this game, but learning how chains work took some effort. Combos in sf4 are very rigid and focused on links, the combo system in sg doesn't lend itself to such a rigidity so the combos we come up with can have rythms that aren't purely defined by the recovery time of the normals you use.
 
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