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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Isn't typically the point of command grabs supposed to be that they are better than normal grabs?

How often do you see other grapplers use their regular grab over their command grab other than using it for left/right positioning?
 
Dreamepitaph said:
H rill has hurtboxes. meaning it will trade more often than not. so it can't be a a poke or a notable one.
H Drill was strike invincible until the 3rd active frame, if it was trading for you you were doin' it wrong.
I agree that most of my problem is probably sliding + shadows, but if I were to make H drill worse it would be longer startup, mwa-ha.

j.HK already does the damage of a medium, it does 750!

IsaVulpes said:
I dnno, who uses this? I'd like if it dealt 900-1000 and sliding; same thing with Bella for the record. Like, I don't think either character needs it at all, and it's probably a terrible idea, but why is Bella's Throw so bad :[
Both Cerebella's and Fukua's normal throws are their only way to throw someone close up who is cornered and still keep them in the corner, as well as being the move you get when you try and tech and they don't throw you, and being a faster input than either command throw.

Fukua's throw lets you choose which side of you they end up on, can be combo'd after with HK drill anywhere and LK shadow -> normal of choice in the corner (as well as basically anything else).

Cerebella's throw can be combo'd off midstage with Copter, Excellabella, or Pummel Horse.
Excellabella works on Valentine, Squigly, Peacock, Parasoul, and Double and lets you use Dynamo and continue moving them toward the corner with OTG left. (And with using the OTG on Big Band ha.)
Pummel Horse works on Painwheel, Filia/Fukua, Eliza, Squigly, Double, and Big Band and lets you get a FULL COMBO afterward for no meter.
Copter works on basically everyone except Peacock, with the important characters being Cerebella and Fortune.
 
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Maybe have mk shadow hitbox just high enough to where most characters can crouch under it?

Would let a few characters slide under it with their sweeps
 
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you can always get dynamo after bella's throw, and if you have an assist that let's you pick up midscreen or reach the corner (which happens often considering you can choose the side you wanna throw your opponent into) you can get a full combo.
 
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oh yeah Mike just a question in how the new Nightmare Legion works. when i was fooling around trying to see if the speed up would affect the timing of BB parrying the whole super, i found out that now upon the first hit that is parried it will count Big Band in the air even though he is doing a ground parry animation. This same thing happens when BB parries the first hit of Fukua's upwards drill super before the following hits will force BB upwards into his aerial parry animation. How ever in this case since Nightmare Legion has a gap in-between the first and the second hit BB can parry the first hit and immediately cancel into Tympani Drive and escape/punish Double's lvl3. i don't mind this, but i want to understand as to why this is happening.

video
 
Mike_Z said:
j.HK already does the damage of a medium, it does 750!
That's a lot for a Medium! I count Mediums as 400-650, Heavies as 750-1000
.. Okay, I guess BBand has some 700+ Meds, but eg Fortune jHP clocks in at 775.

Maybe the problem ARE the shadows, though. Or the starter. Or the ender?

I took a base Fukua combo:
c.LK c.MP c.HP xx M.Shadow (2487)
Dashjump
- j.HP j.HK (3678)
c.MP c.HP xx H.Shadow (4938)
s.MK s.HP xx SJ (5536)
- j.MP j.HK (5914)
s.LKx2 c.MK c.HP xx H.Drill xx DreamDrill (8004)

Impressions:
- 2.5k damage for 0 Undizzy (would be even higher with a H.Shadow starter)
- 3.7k damage for 60 Ud
- 2.1k damage Ender
- Only two jHKs used, so lowering damage there would probably not actually do much

If Shadow damage went from 750/900/1000 to 750/750/750, this combo would deal 7762 damage, which seems more in line with the rest of the cast to me.

j.HP damage 900->800 would reduce the combo by 76. Doesn't sound that much, but for combos which use two j.HPs, it would be ~100.
I think it sounds interesting to turn down the base jHP damage, while increasing Heartseeker (jHP after jHK) damage; Bringing down BnB damage while increasing punish damage -
I dunno enough about her combo paths to know whether Heartseeker is used somewhere other than jHKjHPx3 punishes, though. Maybe in corner routes?

I wouldn't want to touch c.MP, c.HP, s.MK, or s.HP damage wise, as all of these are fun neutral buttons - but maybe s.LK could live with a reduction as well; 400 is quite a bit for a light, especially considering she can chain it into itself.

Another idea would be to have c.LK chain into itself automatically (on hit only?), as the same combo with c.LKx2 starter would deal just 7595 damage (this is probably too weird a suggestion, however this also hints at "something is amiss with the starter"?)

.. Bleh, I'm probably the wrong person to be doing this, as I don't think Fukua is OHMAHGAD TOO STRONG at all, and my combos go by prettiness rather than damage.
Hi @SonicFox5000 @dekillsage where do you think the problems in her damage output are?
In punishes? Off Cmd Grab? After c.LK starter? Everywhere?
Where would you like it to be? -300? -500? etc things
 
i believe i said it in my stream at some point that is if its the gorilla damage then change the shadow damages. something for H shadow to be 750 and m shadow to be 550. SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Mike i was talking about to fullbleed that if you don't have strike invincibility you can't use it for some poke tool by his standards though it can be used.

Edit: @guitalex2007 No. just shorten the either the hitbox on the top of pincers or give cooldown on shadows.

Double Edit: Wtf is with these suggestions? clk chaining into itself only on hit?!.....no the combos damage is out of porportion due to the shadows being used so just readjust it. M shadow takes 31 frames of start up. just shorten the hitbox down on the pincers or take away some(pls not all) of the lower hitboxes.
 
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Mike_Z said:
Both Cerebella's and Fukua's normal throws ... being a faster input than either command throw.
Are you saying that Bella's normal grab is faster than Diamond Drop, or am I misreading?

Cerebella's throw can be combo'd off midstage with Copter, Excellabella, or Pummel Horse.
Pummel Horse works on Painwheel, Filia/Fukua, Eliza, Squigly, Double, and Big Band and lets you get a FULL COMBO afterward for no meter.
Pummel Horse works on Fortune as well. It's easier to say it doesn't work on Peacock, Valentine, Cerebella, or Parasoul. But Pummel Horse after grab is hard.

This also reminds me that for some reason Cerebella throws Peacock and Valentine further with her normal grab than anyone else for no apparent reason.
 
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Wait, if we nerf everyone, does that mean Squigly has all of her bugs put back into the game?
 
Zidiane said:
Are you saying that Bella's normal grab is faster than Diamond Drop, or am I misreading?
Faster input = LP+LK is faster to input than 236LP+LK. Not faster startup.

And yeah I didn't know the stuff after Bella Grab, interesting && thanks! Why do no Bellas use this
 
ZLo3iRi.png

#ThatMomentWhenBothMikeZAndIsaVulpesQuoteYou #HeartAttack
 
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Mike_Z said:
No it ain't! Throw, (C)B, F+LK~LP. EASY.
ok tried stuff on filia :
filia's hurtbox is high enough for pummel horse to hit it during 3 frames.
If you cancel grab recovery with pummel horse too early, you don't get the bonus forward movement from the end of grab animation, so filia is too far to get hit --> we can't use the additional buffer window.
So we have what seems to be a <3f link.
Maybe easy.
But not "EASY".
 
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Dhoppler said:
I can barely get the j.mk out in time and when I do, I've only been able to link it to j.lk. How you do that? Basically, when do dash cancel j.mk?

you have to do the combo at a certain heigh, also just check when the grab animation ends to do the j.mk.
 
@IsaVulpes i think its because she can just Normal---> Heavy in her combos. She gets to heavy you more than any other character
 
Give mk clone a minimum range so it doesn't hit behind fukua if you cross her up
 
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Hope I'm allowed to post this, but it was posted in the IRC, so I don't see why not

(Possible) Future Patch Notes:
16:14wippler-workn: Fukua: - Super fireball no longer causes sliding. Ground version is blockable post-flash (air already was).
16:14wippler-workn: - Forever A Clone all versions +15f recovery on Fukua (roughly until after the shadow hits); all versions do 750 damage; M version blockstun -3f.
16:14wippler-workn: - j.HK scales damage to 75%.
16:14wippler-workn: - Drillationship L/M/H startup 10/15/20; H version strike invincible again on startup (for longer than before!); H version +6f recovery.
16:15wippler-workn: funnily enough I came up with 750 damage as a good number by a completely different route than Vulpes :^P

<wippler-workn>- Parasoul's tears tossed within the first 10f of a jump, and then manually set in place by releasing the button, will now appear smaller and cannot be detonated by Parasoul's attacks for 30f. They can still be detonated during this time by other tears, Lv3, Trigger, etc. just not Parasoul's own attacks. Tears that hit the floor, hit the wall, or place themselves without a button held will work as normal.
<wippler-workn>- Parasoul's Silent Scope is now more like the super that inspired it [MR PECK NOTE: THIS IS STORM'S HAIL STORM FROM MVC2]: Startup longer, still not invincible; recovery shorter; sniper now waits for a target for up to 60f, and will hold their fire as long as the crosshair is not over anything vulnerable.
<wippler-workn>- Silent Scope now causes crumple even vs airborne opponents...that might be too good but let's see how it goes.
<wippler-workn>oh you'll get hit by it raw now
<wippler-workn>no condom no lube bullet up your ass
<wippler-workn>you can react postflash with anything but it will wait for your invincibility to run out and then shoot you after

There was possibly more, but I didn't catch anything else.
Patch isn't up because Steam Updater was down before Mike went to bed
 
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Do we really need to play "give and take" with fukua? Everyone knows she's BS. she wins like every matchup, and doesn't even take effort
 
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Dagwood said:
Do we really need to play "give and take" with fukua? Everyone knows she's BS. she wins like every matchup, and doesn't even take effort
except now maybe she does?

BTW Bella can make fukua shit her pants. same thing with Peacock. if you were joking then i apologize.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
Instead of quoting me like some dunce actually contribute some sort of thought other than "its fucking bullshit" if you don't play the character then silence. if you do then i challenge you to bring any sort of ideas to the table
Alright, then. It's too damn tall. For a fullscreen anti-air that even stops short to hit you wherever you are, and recovers fast enough that can be converted off of if it hits, it should be shorter. This way, I might actually be able to double jump over it if I see it coming. Everything else, I'm fine with.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Hope I'm allowed to post this, but it was posted in the IRC, so I don't see why not
I'm sure it's fine and I appreciate you reposting it, since I don't frequent the IRC.

IsaVulpes said:
<wippler-workn>- Parasoul's Silent Scope is now more like the super that inspired it [MR PECK NOTE: THIS IS STORM'S ICE STORM FROM MVC2]: Startup longer, still not invincible; recovery shorter; sniper now waits for a target for up to 60f, and will hold their fire as long as the crosshair is not over anything vulnerable.
<wippler-workn>- Silent Scope now causes crumple even vs airborne opponents...that might be too good but let's see how it goes.
<wippler-workn>oh you'll get hit by it raw now
<wippler-workn>no condom no lube bullet up your ass
<wippler-workn>you can react postflash with anything but it will wait for your invincibility to run out and then shoot you after
Uhhhhhh so if you use sniper while your opponent is doing anything other than blocking, you get a full combo from anywhere on the screen? That seems... kind of good. Squigly at least needs to get a charge to do this...
 
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zarkingphoton said:
Alright, then. It's too damn tall. For a fullscreen anti-air that even stops short to hit you wherever you are, and recovers fast enough that can be converted off of if it hits, it should be shorter. This way, I might actually be able to double jump over it if I see it coming. Everything else, I'm fine with.
There you go. now was that so hard instead of coming with "THAT"S FUCKING BULLSHIT?" like i said if i had a nerf in mind it'd prolly be either. have M shadow be active at a certain frame so that once you're past that distance you can close in. or shrink the hitbox by the pincers JUST a bit.
 
no lube sniper bullet seems weird ... BB has rarely taken anything up his booty hole. I feel kinda scared by this idea, even though i shouldn't cause i can armor right through that stuff. But parrying it might not be fun.
 
it'll still shoot whenever you are vulnerable it shouldn't be hard to parry and I don't believe parry makes you invuln so it should still be the same to parry the shot.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
There you go. now was that so hard instead of coming with "THAT"S FUCKING BULLSHIT?" like i said if i had a nerf in mind it'd prolly be either. have M shadow be active at a certain frame so that once you're past that distance you can close in. or shrink the hitbox by the pincers JUST a bit.
Stop getting all preachy at me like you're some paragon of critical thinking. If we look at your post I replied to, it was basically, "don't do anything to this move, or I will hurt you." You're not exactly Roger Ebert.
 
zarkingphoton said:
Stop getting all preachy at me like you're some paragon of critical thinking. If we look at your post I replied to, it was basically, "don't do anything to this move, or I will hurt you." You're not exactly Roger Ebert.
A joke. Much different from what you've been doing. Now drop it. you said your cute little tidbit. i said mine. we both know the changes that are to come.
(scroll up to see).
Now you have no reason to complain if you get whooped by a fukua.
Edit: all i want a constructed thought to a character that I play. i even gave out possible nerfs in mind. you did not until i challenged you.
 
So let me get this straight (I have not really had the time or energy to validate what I am about to say so please don't crucify me):
The discussion on fukua is as follows (from what I have read)
"Her shadows do way too much damage so nerf that"
If damage reduction is going to be put on the shadows I think it is only fair to allow for more confirms into shadows (especially H Shadow that really only has 1 confirm out of corner) So reducing shadow damage really wont make her "less OP" it will make her more flow charted (due to the already limited amount of reliable mid screen combos you can do with her)
"M Shadow is bull shit!"
If you dont like M. Shadow stop pressing buttons in the air so you can get punished by it. If anything I would say decrease the damage and give me more confirms into it.
Lastly: "Fukua is braindead and overpowered"
She is braindead I will agree with that. The reason for this is she really only has a set amount of tech she can utilize (due to the fact that shes already been nerfed to hell and all her past tech has been removed). If you want to make this character more fun and fair I would suggest decreasing her damage output but increase her over all play ability (that is make hit confirms that are difficult to execute and are rewarding damage wise instead of using simple air chains that do a ridiculous amount of damage with low amounts of execution)

These are just my thoughts on the whole Fukua ordeal. I love this character and want her to be more fun to play. (also if at all possible give me a 45 degree drill special as an anti-air so I can pretend I'm playing ken....)
 
Dreamepitaph said:
Now you have no reason to complain if you get whooped by a fukua.

That's not true a lot of people still hate fortune.
 
IsaVulpes said:
<wippler-workn>- Parasoul's Silent Scope is now more like the super that inspired it [MR PECK NOTE: THIS IS STORM'S ICE STORM FROM MVC2]
Hail storm*

Also, the reason that the new beta update isn't live yet is that Steam was (is?) having problems with their dev servers so no one can upload new builds of anything. Hopefully it'll start working later!
 
IsaVulpes said:
- Parasoul's tears tossed within the first 10f of a jump, and then manually set in place by releasing the button, will now appear smaller and cannot be detonated by Parasoul's attacks for 30f. They can still be detonated during this time by other tears, Lv3, Trigger, etc. just not Parasoul's own attacks. Tears that hit the floor, hit the wall, or place themselves without a button held will work as normal.
1397714153509.gif

Non jokingly dropping this character I've been playing since the first day I bought this game on steam.
This really sucks.
 
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