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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

I think it is supposed to be better in almost every way, no? Just looking at the changes, they look like a net buff to me.

I'm pro anything that makes Peacock have to think about her patterns. Parasoul is taking a risk by just throwing it out, isn't she? If Peacock blocks, Parasoul's going to take some argus or projectile damage.

Maybe it will add a little dynamism to a fairly boring match up?
 
PBGCs!
Sniper still doesn't have startup invincibility, and everything Peacock can throw at you has less blockstun than Pushblock (meaning your PBGC comes out after you could have from just inputting the move after block). I mean, I don't know, it probably could be helpful.
 
I hereby report two bugs with the new changes
  • The visual explosion effect of small napalm tears is still normal size
I think it's just totally fucked.
I can't get the small tear to come out ever:


I get it once at the very very end.
 
Nevermind:
- Tears tossed within the first 10f of a jump

I wait longer than others I suppose to give them more time to come towards me.
Now there's just this strange 10F window which makes the move worse if you do it to fast.
I can probably work with this then.

I think all her TK Tear combos are still the same.
You can do J214LK JLP lockdown still in the corner if you just wait a little bit for the jump.
@IsaVulpes because the jump for the double snap combo is so high I think [Semi] TK Tears during double snaps will work fine too.

Tears released before <minFrameWindow> should be small instead of it being based on your jump height.
Unless the point of this experiment was to slow down the total time of getting the full tear explosion cloud out, might need to adjust it more.
Cuz you can still up back into J214LK JLP/JHP and have 100 years to dash into 6LP for an air to air, or air to ground tear hit.
Just takes 10 Frames longer so you start it a bit earlier (Which I did already).
 
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I think it's just totally fucked.
I can't get the small tear to come out ever:


I get it once at the very very end.

It works, but idk why you're not getting it.

edit: Okay so that's why you're not getting it. kk
 
can we edit all our videos to have the sped up sound?
 
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Fukua: - Super fireball no longer causes sliding. Ground version is blockable post-flash (air already was).
Forever A Clone all versions +15f recovery on Fukua (roughly until after the shadow hits); all versions do 750 damage; M version blockstun -3f.
j.HK scales damage to 75%.

Drillationship L/M/H startup 10/15/20; H version strike invincible again on startup (for longer than before!); H version +6f recovery.
Funnily enough I came up with 750 damage as a good number by a completely different route than Vulpes :^P
.
Someone that doesn't have damage and frame info stuff memorized, are these nerfs or buffs to fukua? if nerfs, then why? she was already nered pretty bad
 
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Tried things just Peacock throw, Lenny DHC Sniper for Oki so it would fire as they get up.
Or a burst bait jHP HDK Sniper for Oki when they wake up too.

I don't think it's a thing.
So much hitstop on Sniper makes it really easy to AG and you can still super out of the wake up at that point because it's going to fire on that frame anyways (Since it ate up 35 ish frames pausing as you were invincible)
 
Speaking about overheads being nerfed, what about parasouls air down+Mk?
By its self its ass, but in the corner with an assist , she can do a tear setup and then get a 25/25/25/25 from it (@dekillsage has seen this setup :p)
I propose that her air down m.k gets the Eliza instant j.lk treatment just to keep it like all other overheads. Im surprised I dont see para players use this enough!
Also its 7 frame startups, but im not sure if thats accounting with jump frames
 
Someone that doesn't have damage and frame info stuff memorized, are these nerfs or buffs to fukua? if nerfs, then why? she was already nered pretty bad
Straight up? This would appear to be a nerf. Forget the damage nerf. the important nerf is the recovery frames on shadows. the blockstun change is ok but the recovery frames makes it super if not infinitely easier to close in on fukua. Shadow combos are janky now and overall my speculation is that her neutral suffered. i'll see that as i'm starting up matches.
 
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Speaking about overheads being nerfed, what about parasouls air down+Mk?
By its self its ass, but in the corner with an assist , she can do a tear setup and then get a 25/25/25/25 from it (@dekillsage has seen this setup :p)
I propose that her air down m.k gets the Eliza instant j.lk treatment just to keep it like all other overheads. Im surprised I dont see para players use this enough!
Also its 7 frame startups, but im not sure if thats accounting with jump frames

The 7 frame startup doesn't take in the jump, but yeah it's a stomp like Chun li so it's like an instant overhead. It has a bunch of uses, but most people didn't use it for setups like you used. And yeah, it wouldn't really hurt Parasoul much if it acted like Eliza jLK since it's not like Parasoul needs more reset setups anyways, so I'd be okay with that.
 
Speaking about overheads being nerfed, what about parasouls air down+Mk?
By its self its ass, but in the corner with an assist , she can do a tear setup and then get a 25/25/25/25 from it (@dekillsage has seen this setup :p)
I propose that her air down m.k gets the Eliza instant j.lk treatment just to keep it like all other overheads. Im surprised I dont see para players use this enough!
Also its 7 frame startups, but im not sure if thats accounting with jump frames


I cant speak on any other parasoul but stomps are one of my most abused tools as parasoul. I like to do a combo then reset with stomp plus lk bomber. Depending on whether i throw a tear or not, the bomber will crossup, and i confirm the bomber into combos, and if the bomber is blocked i just run a low/throw mixup and then do it all over again and again and again...vortex stilos.
 
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I started using stomp more now that I've got Osiris Spiral as an assist option. It's fun playing "chip for a bunch and make them guess which side i'm on"
 
Ok so I played around in training and here are my findings.
-Sniper as expected is very very good. I can react to fukua and peacock zoning with it. Who cares if I trade with one of their projectiles, i get a combo in those cases.
-The only issue I found besides double car is fukua drill > bff avoids the shot and punishes me at full screen. Also bff dhcd to lenny also works.
-Doing sniper from full screen actually gives me a reason to do empty jump stuff now. Like do it full screen, dash jump, call brass, and do x mixup.
-The crumple on airborne is also amazing. As far as being too good, I couldn't find anything.
- I think there is a bug. I programmed the dummy to sniper while i armored through with BB just to see if sniper waited for armor. I ended up finding BB took no damage at all. Thought it might be all armor moves but cerebella still took damage.
-tear change effects no combos I do nor my neutral. tk tear wait for it to hit the ground then explode it with j.lp/j.hp still retains its hitbox and is still pretty strong.
-as for fukua, she still does good damage and her shadow combos still work although mk shadow feels a bit harder to link( at least on parasoul it did)
 
weird...I did it like three times just to make sure. Maybe it's training room only or something.
 
i had it at 100% but my health stayed green after armoring sniper shot. maybe i took damage but the bug was no health color change or something.
 
For PW players: Sniper Shot now can't be hg through on reaction, but you can unfly and block on reaction. That said, if they do SS you when you have HG frames up, it won't wait for them, and you'll still get a punish.
 
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Not a big deal since it'd be a hard read and 1f timing, but tech none the less:
 
For PW players: Sniper Shot now can't be hg through on reaction, but you can unfly and block on reaction. That said, if they do SS you when you have HG frames up, it won't wait for them, and you'll still get a punish.

You may actually be able to HG on reaction to the pre-flash startup frames now if you're watching closely enough. There's like 30? of them.

Unfly is probably safer though.
 
@Jason

Yeah you absolutely can. Once the armored frames happen, you're in the clear for postflash. It probably isn't all that hard either depending on how clearly you see Para go into it. The risk might not be worth it though. That new crumple from the air is scary as hell.
 
A couple of thoughts on all of the things in the game right now:

- Perfectly happy with the bomber changes since I still don't have too much a problem converting off of it with any of my characters.
- Double monster super is fun, unique, and interesting. I would be really upset if it was gone.
- Undizzy flash is pretty useful. Would be nice if it got touched up later on, but I think mike said it would be at some point.
- Gun buff is awesome
- Low tremolo is awesome.
 
Tremolo hitting low is kinda nice but it isn't a raging demon.
Stop. Seriously. It's not funny, it's just annoying.

@Mr. X
No response at all to that whole thing? I am disappoint.
And I missed an easy one - Sei'ei Enbu shadows don't hit overhead or low. Which is a good example of why there are exceptions...it "makes sense" because otherwise he'd have pretty easy unblockables, and thus the exception exists. Aegis not resetting juggle points same thing, 6 shoulders into 6 more while building meter. Other ones handle other problem cases (last hit of Chun SAII works the way it does because in the beta of 3s getting hit by just that hit did 40% damage) and others probably handle things we never found because they were handled.

@dekillsage
Actually yeah I can get that to hit in the corner probably.
 
idk man i think it's hilarious
 
Serious question here. Is it possible for us to get the scaling on Fukua's j.HK only if it was used as the combo starter?

If so, what would you want to take away from her in order for that to happen?
 
Been at work since you replied back. Thank you for your reply will reply in more depth when free.
 
If you want to help, help. Otherwise, go shitpost somewhere else. I am a human being, and there's only so much completely irrelevant unhelpful BS I can take. The community has very nearly succeeded at doing something that lack of money, lawsuits, and every other thing that has happened to Skullgirls has thus far been unable to do - making me not want to work on this game anymore.

Keep it up.

Well that's just great. Another franchise dies because the audience acts like whiners to the creator and ruins it for everyone. I hope you people are happy now.

(This is why I can't take criticism anymore)
 
Well that's just great. Another franchise dies because the audience acts like whiners to the creator and ruins it for everyone. I hope you people are happy now.

(This is why I can't take criticism anymore)

Well honestly, that's a reason probably why a lot of companies don't listen to it's consumers anymore. You have the smart people, and then you have the really unsure people who don't exactly know what they want and then cause more problems and demonize certain people for trying to implant those changes. I was expecting this to happen to SG, not saying it towards anyone specifically, just in general.

Honestly, I'm not smart enough with the game yet to argue anything, so I kinda just wait and see what happens with the changes. I ain't to picky.

I don't know, in my honest opinion, the community has gotten a big greedy when it comes to changes.
 
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Filia is a good example. @ashxu said she was "kneecapped", so let's take a look:
- j.HK is no longer an overhead. It still dodges throws and lots of ground moves, it's still 13f, safe on block and easily comboable off of, and it can still be a crossup after an IAD, and it can still be airdash cancelled for mixups afterward.
- IAD j.LK is now a reliable overhead that is exactly the same speed as instant j.HK was and will hit every character crouching, but will not cross up and does not lead to airdash mixups afterward, and is a light attack which does less damage.
She lost an easy go-to tool that covered a great many options (fast safe overhead that could randomly crossup, led to multiple overheads, confirmed easily, hard attack combo starter, HCH, etc) in return for having to choose between two options that do everything she could before.
She also gained meterless throw conversions and much easier midscreen conversions with Ringlet, which improve it as a poking tool or in trade situations like incoming or antiair.

For having to think a bit more when you play her as opposed to just UF+HK, improved throw damage, and an improved midrange game, she got "kneecapped". That's what I deal with.

As for Double, you weren't really getting hit out of those 2 frames at the beginning of LK bomber all that often, so making it a legit DP doesn't really give her anything new. It's still got basically no reach and is ridiculously unsafe, and neither Monster nor Catheads makes it safe on block (Catheads gives a 26f gap IIRC before a head will hit you), plus it's 12f making it one of the slower DPs in the game. Removing MK bomber invincibility does a LOT in terms of helping the assist be less everything, but in return it has faster startup and LK can be invincible. Larger bullets helps Luger be more useful, but you can still duck the L version. H Luger makes conversions more reliable and encourages some non-barrel-loop combos as well as helping the assist some.
Again, all things you can figure out from the changes.
I wasn't even trying to troll nor did i just play Filia for 2 games and said she sucks, I've been playing Filia/Double in the beta since the Filia changes almost exclusively so that comment is kind of uncalled for. Respect works both ways.

Losing the lead to more mix ups is kind of a big thing, it's a lot less appealing to do highs now as if you get pushblocked then you lose the advantage. Also damage as you said. You also forgot to mention that since s.HP has a big hurtbox now, it's more risky to use as an anti air especially against characters who go higher and play better in the air than Filia. Although to you seem to disagree with me anyway so whatever.

Luger changes are nice, especially how it hits crouching now.
 
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Well that's just great. Another franchise dies because the audience acts like whiners to the creator and ruins it for everyone. I hope you people are happy now.

(This is why I can't take criticism anymore)
Oh shut up. People need to stop shitposting here sure but tons of people are doing other stuff to support the game. It's an insult to the community to blame it for "killing the game". I'm sure people have traveled a lot to support it at offline events, created resources, contributed tech, put in the good word, etc.

Ignoring all that is just undermining what people have done to support Skullgirls. Without the community, Encore wouldn't even of been a thing due to the fact that it's crowd funded.
 
Okay, yes, I know only me and @Broseidon Rex seemed worried about it, but the new Sniper Shot does not know to wait until Deflector is over to hit.
 
The fact is that there were multiple pages of complaints and bitching about changes that WEREN'T EVEN AVAILABLE.

How myopic is that?

First of all, you're getting patch notes, which is something that companies don't give out specifics most of the time (I'm looking at you, Nintendo, with Smash 4), or you wouldn't have ever bothered to provide unless one of your employees was part of the FGC.

I still remember one time Mike said Fortune's J.HP had 1f more hitstun and cat spike in the air had 1f less startup. He didn't say anything else other than "you do the math". By the end of the day, a couple of Fortune players had posted videos with uses.

Can we all just shut up and do that? WAIT until the patch comes out, DOCUMENT uses/problems and reserve our judgements until then?

Or does everyone have selective amnesia of the time when only MMDS, me and only a handful of people thought Fukua was good when other top players were quick to dismiss her? Now they're all playing Fukua and everyone wants her further nerfed.

This would've been handled better by ACTUALLY PLAYING HER WHILE SHE WAS IN BETA.
 
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Ignoring all that is just undermining what people have done to support Skullgirls. Without the community, Encore wouldn't even of been a thing due to the fact that it's crowd funded.

You realize you're making it sound like it's just the community doing anything for this game, right?
 
so all in all can we play this change for two days minimum and no comment on anything. (except the bugs you find) and then give our feedback?
Edit: sorry i just woke up so if i repeated anything then forgive me
You got it.

The alternative of complaining before playing it or after a few minutes sucks by comparison.
 
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You realize you're making it sound like it's just the community doing anything for this game, right?
I said undermining so no I think you're just misinterpreting what I'm saying.
 
I'm a bit drowsy so if you parodying me then i ask that we just stop the farce. though i think you're just jabbing at the community.

I don't know much about parasoul but i played against parasouls alot. so the least i can do is provide what i see from fighting parasoul.

I like my character fukua a lot. so for the changes i'm running solo fukua and see how the changes are and try to take notes on what i think about her along with ideas that i can give to mike. i know mike is the one to decide so its not like the community should be "demanding" changes. i'm in this thread just to present ideas and thoughts and i can't do that if i'm stuck to knee-jerk reactions which i promised to stop doing.
 
snip
That definitely is a long list of exceptions in 3S.

Hold on. I do not have to think for the community. If nobody has any faith in my decision-making that's one thing, but if I can figure out something SURELY someone else can.
I do not consider it my responsibility to do everyone else's research for them.
Thought the Lenny Argus combo starter was something you wanted to play with, hence the changed to Argus passing through Lenny due to past experiments where you tweaked things to combo into other things.

I also don't feel like I need to spell every damn thing out for everyone, because I DO write pretty explicit notes. You can see what it addresses because you know WHAT CHANGED.

I'm not saying you need or I want you to spell it out. If you remove comboability from something, I can figure you don't want combos from it anymore. Less combos after supers is something I want, I can tell you why I want it but I want to why you want to do that now.

I've seen you post you think Fukua's strengths are exaggerated, throw her more, she's a scrub killer, strings into shadow are not true blockstrings, etc. but now you're toying with her damage and frame data of her shadow specials. I'm just curious what did you find/see that changed your mind (and on the blockable post flash super with undizzy stuff too tbh).

Like I can figure what lead to your Peacock changes; you didn't want her to be as effective as she was upclose/rushdown, you wanted to weaken her runaway/escape, you wanted to improve more tools for fullscreen, keepaway, keeping out and controlling space.

What makes you want to make Filia's ringlet better? Why is it bad that it's bad?
What was TK Tear Toss leading to?

I have the experiment, I have the end result of the experiment, I'm just missing the "why"?