Big Band Tech Thread: Small/Big Tips & Strategy YOU Notice?

Discussion in 'Big Band' started by Nuuance, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. Adeveis

    Adeveis PS3 Skullbats Host

    Location:
    Norcross, GA
    Steam:
    Adeveis
    PSN:
    Sabaku45dahaka
    Parasoul
    Squigly
    Big Band
    Big Band's Timpani drive is disjointed on the drums part so you can use it for burst baits. Ex: lk > mk > j.lk > j.mk > dash jump > j.mk (triggers burst) > timpani drive.
    on some characters, it's easier to trigger burst with j.lk. In some cases when triggering burst with j.mk, you have to cancel to j.hk before timipani.
    More than likely they try to burst when they see you super, but if they don't you have to move up slightly at a steady pace to keep them from bursting your super in the middle.
     
  2. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
  3. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    not really sure what this is conceptual proof of, just baiting a reversal with parry? or am I missing something
     
  4. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    It's a parry/cr.lk option select after throw.

    You parry early then a couple of frames later input cr.lk. This should parry any true reversal as well as hit any jump back, in the case of blocking the reversal updo, the parry seems to have been done to late. So at that timing it won't beat jumpouts.

    SGGK is an option select that chun had in 3S between parry/throw/st.hk xx super confirm

    Idk how this compares besides the parry os. Though parry OS of this kind should be somewhat obvious, kinda like the parry /block OS on incoming.


    But still, nice stuff on yoma for categorizing it and having a good setup (throw)
     
  5. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Kind of, yes. It's just the simplest setup I could find for it. The problem is that you need to have a parry out for the duration of the startup of the reversal, which means people holding up back will get away for free since they'll be past jump startup at that point. Pretty sure there's ways to make it a better catch all.

    What this is, at least right now, is a way to do a mix up without fear of reversals in a very safe and semi non committal way. It's definitely not as strong as SGGK (that was kinda tongue in cheek) but I hope people explore this more.
     
  6. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    There are probably ways to SG-GK (heh) with useful things like either throw or parry-DP...
     
  7. zeknife

    zeknife Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    zeknife
    Parasoul
    Squigly
    Big Band

    If they burst, you have a narrow window to punish with a taunt super
    If they delay burst, the punish gets easier
    If they don't burst, you get a taunt and untechable knockdown

    The setup itself is pretty awkward but I couldn't find anything else that was more consistent (keeping in mind you need sound stun and ideally otg unused)
     
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  8. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    I FOUND IT I FUCKING FOUND IT I'M A MOTHERFUCKING GENIUS I'M A RAP GOD

    Serious (open)
    This is extremely difficult. The most difficult thing in SG by far. I do not expect this to become tournament viable any time soon.


     
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  9. fenster

    fenster Stop Bugging me about Avatars ;_;

    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Steam:
    fensterSA
    Parasoul
    Does that cover low parry as well? I don't know exactly how it works
     
  10. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    i think it does. his inputs do show him doing a qcf to get the beat extend. Ehh... i'll try it out online to see if it works against people, you know whether or not they mash super or something. I mean i get that the options doing the qcf lp,lk give you but... mmmhhh, i'll just test it. thanks for showing this.
     
  11. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    You have to choose between toward and low parry, you can't OS both.

    Also, what the programmed BB is doing is toward parry, wait, LP~LK(Kara throw)~DP. The toward parry parries reversals (ironically this is worse against slower reversals because if you want to OS those they can throw you instead as their slow reversal has to be OS'd later, though it may be possible to time it or space it so that that doesn't happen) then the inputs produce a DP (still not fully sure how, maybe Mike would like to explain why this happens and why it's so fucking hard because 99% of the time this input gave a parry throw vs reversals instead, I have the video evidence to show this too) otherwise you get a throw in true SGGK fashion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  12. MF_Shinzo

    MF_Shinzo New Member

    PSN:
    MFshinzo
    Parasoul
    Double
    Cerebella
    YO WE 3S NOW ? :O
     
  13. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    we were always 3rd strike.
     
  14. Datagram

    Datagram the Great-agram

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Steam:
    Datagram
    PSN:
    data_enabler
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Some fullscreen Argus punishes:

     
  15. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    You can also do block, H Train (3 hits of armor) xx Lv3. Fairly easy, but does require 3 bars whereas Tympany is only 1.
     
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  16. Flotilla

    Flotilla Well-Known Member News Writer

    Big Band
    Big Band
    Big Band
    For the last one you can do cymbals > M Brass if they're in the corner to follow up with other stuff. In general it's a good idea to substitute H brass with M Brass if your opponent is close to the corner and you haven't used up OTG yet
     
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  17. Datagram

    Datagram the Great-agram

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Steam:
    Datagram
    PSN:
    data_enabler
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Sure. But that punish isn't actually practical anyway (In the video description I mention that it depends on the Argus pattern).
     
  18. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Here's a new reset I've been using lately. I think it's pretty good. After any s.MK, do either j.LP into air grab (input the air grab as LK~LP), or j.LP delayed j.MK land c.LK, or j.LP delayed j.MK land instant j.LK j.MK. The last one is a fuzzy guard setup; you need to delay the j.MK enough that they land on the ground, otherwise the j.LK will whiff against a crouch block. Also the fuzzy doesn't work if they land and get hit by the first j.MK because it will hit them crouching, which kinda sucks, but if you're worried about that happening you can go with one of the other two options.

    The reason I like this is because the overhead option out of this reset leaves you hella plus if they do block it, which is not normally true of overhead resets with Big Band.
     
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  19. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    That reminds me, after late air throw resets you can do:
    Air throw
    OTG j.MK
    c.MK s.HP H Extend full shake
    s.MK M ATrain

    The s.MK pops IPS but if they burst they collide with the armour and they're kinda high (420 blaze it homie) that they're subject to another air throw vs counter hit j.LK mixup. They can probably alpha counter the burst to punish but lol no one does that yet and if they don't have meter for it they can't do that anyway. If they get hit by the ATrain then that's ok but you don't really have advantage at all (but they can't burst the hits of ATrain and if they mash burst after ATrain releases them I think you get another mixup). Really good vs like anyone who doesn't have an air super since I do believe you can't double jump out of the reset.

    Also if they won't ever burst after s.MK you can air throw them back into this.
     
  20. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Hmm, could you do s.MK then jump back, or would you not be far enough away to avoid the burst?
     
  21. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Not far away, I'm afraid.
     
  22. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    BB c.LK c.MP c.MP H extend full mash
    H A Train Hammerfall cancel under
    c.LK c.MP c.MP snap

    Big Band corner happy birthday side switch tech, fully universal. At uni so can't post a video right now.
     
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  23. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    otg c.lk right?
     
  24. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Ya, sorry I didn't say that
     
  25. Yomabuddy

    Yomabuddy I don't play Big Band just for the assist.

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Steam:
    Yomabuddy
    Filia
    Big Band
    Video of side switch I posted above

     
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  26. gllt

    gllt Dedicated

    Steam:
    gllt
    Valentine
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    wow he even did it on squig band, i like you a bit more every day yoma (rip yaya 2k15)
     
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  27. pegglefrank

    pegglefrank I am 5000lbs of folded diamonds and sex appeal!

    Steam:
    PeggleFrank
    Big Band
    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    You can do an HK A train crossup with anything (except s.mk) into s.mk, s.hp, HK "A" train. It's not convertable, but it's extremely difficult to see coming, so it can be used to reliably reset scaling for a little extra damage before finishing with a super.

    Squigly: Very difficult. I can't do it consistently; you need very specific timing on just about every attack, and you need to be far enough way that s.mk will just barely reach. I've gotten it to work with s.mk x2, s.hp as well as s.mk, s.hp. Using the full bees knees appears to make it easier, but gives your opponent more free time in the air.
    BB: Easy to do.
    Eliza: It may be possible, but not without precise setup.
    Double: The timing and positioning are difficult, but it's possible. You need to be far enough away that c.lk will whiff, but s.mk won't.

    This seems to extend for other characters in the same weight class, though it is very hurtbox dependent. BB is by far the easiest to do it on, but it seems to be possible with other characters that have fairly large hurtboxes. I don't see it being practically used outside of a mirror, but it's cool nonetheless.

    EDIT: It seems the s.mk isn't even necessary in most cases.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  28. Dr. Zeus

    Dr. Zeus That lovely 1920's cartoonist/Greek god

    Location:
    Missouri
    Steam:
    Dr. Zeus
    Big Band
    Here's a pleasant little burst bait I found a while back:



    It works on all characters, although the timing changes slightly (I think). Apologies for terrible video quality.
     
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  29. Bigtonney

    Bigtonney The answer lies, in the Skullheart of battle.

    Location:
    Venice,Italy
    Steam:
    Bigtonney
    PSN:
    Bigtonney
    Squigly
    it doesn't work on band, but still is my contribution from my slow bband.
     
  30. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Unfortunately this is a training mode only crossup. In an actual match, if your opponent is holding back, it will move them far enough backwards that the j.MK will hit in front. I found this too and was disappointed to find that it doesn't actually work.
     
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  31. Bigtonney

    Bigtonney The answer lies, in the Skullheart of battle.

    Location:
    Venice,Italy
    Steam:
    Bigtonney
    PSN:
    Bigtonney
    Squigly
    :/ I see... whatever.
     
  32. Jim Groovester

    Jim Groovester Active Member

    Steam:
    jimgroovester
    Big Band


    A crossunder reset I found. Since it may not be obvious from the video, what I'm doing is after E-Brake, I'm doing a forward dash followed immediately by s.mk. This boosts Big Band forward a bit more than just s.mk by itself.

    It doesn't seem to work on Big Band or Double because they fall too fast. It's tough on Beowulf since he's big and wide, but it should work on the rest of the cast without too much more trouble.

    You can do any special move after the s.mk, but doing charge moves is really tricky and requires serious abuse of input leniency.

    How to (open)

    Hold back
    push clk
    buffer cmk
    buffer shp
    tap forward
    hold back
    shp hits, press shk
    press a punch button to cancel hk a train
    wait until e-brake is out of recovery
    release back, i.e., go to neutral
    punch dash (i have two punches mapped to a macro button)
    smk immediately afterward
    tap forward
    punch or kick button

    I haven't used this in a match yet but this seems like one of those things that would be pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
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  33. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Extremely nice find dude! I think a way to abuse this even more could be doing a st.lk after the e brake. The st.lk will kara BB BACKWARDS. One might think why do st.lk instead of just doing nothing into raw non crossup stuff, and tbh that's probably great as well, but if you REALLY want it to be super ambiguous and stand the test of time, the st.lk kara time will make it so that there is literally autotiming in the mixup. A good crossunder is something I've wanted for BB for a loooong time, so very good find dude :)
     
  34. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    OK, so I want to have Liam help me make a video on this to explain it, but I'm writing it down before I go to sleep. I dunno if this is new, but it's new for me and it's AMAZING.

    c.HP is a great poke. Yeah! We know this. Huge, damaging, combos to a bunch of stuff. It's not so great on block, or in blockstrings, because you need to see whether it hit to know to EBrake or followup. Right?
    Wrong! (Of course, or I wouldn't have asked.)
    With good timing, if you do
    [DB]+HP, tap F, hold B (the c.HP connects) HK ~ hold LP (edited for clarity)
    you get the fastest-possible H-Train-EBrake timing off c.HP, and you already have another charge when the EBrake finishes.

    WHY IS THIS AWESOME?
    - You do the same thing on hit or block, no reaction required until after the EBrake, which is a long time. It's an EASY confirm.
    - It's -5 on block, which is safer than L Brass; not punishable by Fortune/Filia s.LP, or most supers; if you think they're going to mash, you can beat almost anything with SSJ.
    - You already have another charge, so if it hits, you can easily confirm into the same H Brass / H Train / M Train followup + knockdown you would normally get by being risky and waiting. This is really the main point here. Those all work on the entire cast, but M Train is a much easier option on Double/Robo/Cerebella because of tight timing required.
    - You move a great deal closer on block, so when poking with max-range c.HP you gain distance. Plus it doesn't leave your hitbox out where the horn is.
    - If they attempted to hit the c.HP it gets retracted, and you armor whatever they did if they advanced.
    - If you were using it in a blockstring like c.LK->c.MK->c.HP EBrake, and it hit, you can followup with s.LP->c.MK->s.HP whatever. Still an easy confirm, and no risk on block.
    - Since you will be doing EBrake every time after c.HP, this makes the c.HP [cancel before it hits] L Train mixup much harder to react to.

    It feels a LOT like Potemkin's 2S->Hammerfall~Break mixup. It's GREAT.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  35. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Sounds cool! I'll try messing around with it the next time I get a chance.
     
  36. RemiKz

    RemiKz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Norcal
    Steam:
    remikz_
    PSN:
    RemiKz_
    Peacock
    Filia
    Cerebella
    Just for the sake of clarification, the first input should be downback c.HP. I was scratching my head for a bit trying to figure out how the heck this was supposed to work when I realized I was getting it every time by charging before the c.HP
     
  37. Jim Groovester

    Jim Groovester Active Member

    Steam:
    jimgroovester
    Big Band
    It hasn't been mentioned in the thread before, and I refuse to believe nobody's thought of this, but Big Band can use Satchmo Solo as the world's most expensive Red Roman Cancel by activating Lv.5 and then waiting for the timer to expire.

    Notably, H Brass into Satchmo Solo into waiting ten seconds is +15 on block. L Beat Extend xx Satchmo Solo (wait ten seconds) is -4, M BE into expired solo is -2, and H BE into expired solo is -3. All of Big Band's other grounded specials are + on block.

    There are probably safer and cheaper uses of meter if you have a team. Canceling a blocked H Brass or mashed Beat Extend even if it does cost all my meter is an attractive option as a solo Big Band player since otherwise I would have to eat a gigantic punish.
     
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  38. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Steam:
    labzero_mike
    PSN:
    MikeZWasTaken
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Oh, I use that sometimes. It's also his only safe DHC in. :^) Gotta have a song that takes too long, though.
     
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  39. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    There have been times where I didn't do the finisher out of level 5 because I saw during the flash that they would be able to block, but I never thought of using it like that. Plus FIFTEEN after blocked H Brass? That's out of control
     
  40. pegglefrank

    pegglefrank I am 5000lbs of folded diamonds and sex appeal!

    Steam:
    PeggleFrank
    Big Band
    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    I was actually just talking about this in the IRC yesterday. Hell, I even have this snippet of text that was autosaved. I was going to compile a list of impractical chains that use the frame advantage off an empty level 5.

    I believe the exact frame advantage is around +20f. That should be enough to make most of BB's moves safe, assuming you can time it correctly.
     

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