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Beast's Fury Kickstarter is Live!

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Anyway, please post your questions and I will answer them to the best of my ability.
"Vincent was initially animated at 24 Frames Per Second instead of the the 30 Frames Per Second that we decided we wanted for the game (The game is set to run at 60 FPS)"

What exactly does this mean? How does making a character move faster cost money (or as much money as it did, which is "most" as you put it (an exact figure would be cool))? Or, what exactly is going on? I don't really know how f/s work. Also, you said you went from a 25% complete Vincent to a 90% complete one. At what point did you realize you had to speed him up or whatever?
 
I'll try and be clear about it. 24 Frames per second would mean the character had less animations, however, this also made 'holds', which is where we extend animation timing, a lot more difficult as it made the animations look sloppy and not very clean.

So we added more frames of animation (Retiming him to 30FPS) so its easier to add holds at the points we want without sacrificing the quality of the animations in question.

I joined the project shortly after Animation was initially done for Vincent, at the time the animator didn't know we needed a 30FPS Animation, he merely went off what he was normally good at, which is 24 FPS animation.
 
I'll try and be clear about it. 24 Frames per second would mean the character had less animations, however, this also made 'holds', which is where we extend animation timing, a lot more difficult as it made the animations look sloppy and not very clean.
So because it was 24 frames, and you needed 30, you had to like repeat every sixth frame before you added frames? Or did you do something weird like have 6 frames at the end of each 24 frame loop? I can see how the 6 frames at the end would have been a problem, but why wouldn't the repeating every sixth frame work?

Either way I can see why you'd want to add frames, but I don't get why it cost so much money to fix (which was how much?). I know labor hours can be expensive for animators and professional guys, but I'm having a hard time grasping why it took so much of the money.
 
Here's my question...Why animate at 30fps?

I mean seriously, animating on 2's for a game that runs at 60fps is not only a lot of work, but it's also arguably unnecessary. Skullgirls is the obvious (and probably most relevant) example here. Generally speaking most things in Skullgirls are animated on 3's, 4's, or 5's. Of course there are exceptions which require either more or fewer frames, but my point is that 30fps is an unnecessarily high frame rate for a game like this.

If anything I would have expected you guys to lower the frame rate, not increase it! And don't tell me that 30 fps just looks better than 24fps (or lower) because that simply isn't true. Good animation is good animation, regardless of the frame rate.

I'm curious as to what the main goals behind making this game are. If the intent is to develop a high quality fighting game, then why is the budget being put into things like increasing the framerate? The fps should be decreased so that more time and money can be spent on other aspects of the game. Animation isn't the only important thing here. And if the frame rate and quality of the animation really are the most important aspect of this project, then why are you making a videogame?
 
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I noticed that an update has gone up on the IGG about the new Kickstarter. I'm glad that the devs has taken our concern on that note into account.
 
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I have burning questions about the story and characters:
Story: What exactly is the story? Or at least what is the prologue of the story?
Characters: What are most of the individual characters' personalities and stories or, if you have time, all of their stories? What are their motivations behind what they are doing?
Also, if you don't feel like spoiling the story, don't do it on my behalf please. I just want to know what this game's story is all about.
 
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I've already backed, but my biggest concern has to do with the finishers/on hit kill move. I know you've stated that that animation has gone a long way in drawing casual backers, and I respect that. However, I think gameplay wise it would be smarter to use those more like an ultra or super combo in street fighter. Is there any particular reason why you guys want to use them specifically as finishers?
 
Alright, lets start at the top and work our way down.

To Zidiane, It was less about the repeating frames and more that certain light attacks were too fast and couldn't have any holds implemented that didn't make it look like shit, so they were reworked. Other moves were just bad looking in general and needed fixing to accompany that. As for why it took so much money, imagine telling an artist we need more animations, and more animations, and more animations, and more and more and on top of that we now need to fix animations that are wrong.

To Skullmageddon, being the person who writes the GDD (frame data, design aspects, so on so forth), I had little input on the artistic direction of the game, on top of this, the game's programmer, Marco, said something similar to what you said in that the game could work with less animation; however he also said that what we're doing is something you just don't see due to both the fact that its un-necessary and time consuming, and because a lot of people like to rush character animation in favor of a working game. However, we've also learned from this mistake of over focusing on the artistic aspect and not enough on the gaming aspect, and have focused more of our monetary assets on the programming this time around on top of the animations. Instead of it being a high focus on animation, we're trying to make sure the game itself actually -plays- well, instead of how flashy it looks. A polished turd is still a turd, right?

To Wrestler Guile, I don't want to give much away, but the focus isn't solely on a particular character, so much as it is everyone's interpersonal desires to grow/over come something/achieve a goal. Since the obvious story of 'There's some guys and they go to a fighting tournament' is Kinda Street Fighter territory and overplayed. We're trying to take the writing very seriously on this end, as the better the story, the less we get a 'lolfurries' stigma surrounding the game.

To Grangach, we're actually in talks within the team to decide 'how' we want to utilize the ultimate finishers. -Currently- They're slated as one hit finishers due to how the game mechanics work, however, if they prove too difficult to utilize in live games, we were considering making them high damage finishing combos instead.
 
Although I'm really not a fan of anthro art, Don looks interesting however my main gripes are the fact that while ultimate finishers look cool, unless I'm missing something here, that time could of went into animating the other characters. Also as like Ultras in Street Fighter 4, a lot of flashy super moves that take ages to do become annoying to watch every time so I hope there's a skip button. In Skullgirls there's one cinematic super move and if you hold down punch it skips it entirely.

Another thing, sorry if this is stated somewhere (If so then feel free to just say so or link me) but what fighting game experiences do you guys have? As in have you guys been playing them for a long time, has anyone worked on any others etc.

For example Mike Z used to be a pro BlazBlue player.
 
As far as people who have total fighting game experience on the team, you're currently speaking to the only one who has that experience (The Design Lead, Andrew Fein) and Ryhan Stevens himself (Leader of the Project). However, I'm an actual tournament player (I started playing in Tournaments in 2008) while Ryhan is still learning a lot.
 
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As far as people who have total fighting game experience on the team, you're currently speaking to the only one who has that experience (The Design Lead, Andrew Fein) and Ryhan Stevens himself (Leader of the Project). However, I'm an actual tournament player (I started playing in Tournaments in 2008) while Ryhan is still learning a lot.
What games?
 
Street Fighter, Street Fighter X Tekken, Tekken, some KoF, and Virtua Fighter.
 
Apologies for the double post, I need to leave for the weekend as I'll be at UFGT. I'll try an answer questions over the weekend if possible, but you'll see me back again sometime Sunday Evening.
 
To Wrestler Guile, I don't want to give much away, but the focus isn't solely on a particular character, so much as it is everyone's interpersonal desires to grow/over come something/achieve a goal. Since the obvious story of 'There's some guys and they go to a fighting tournament' is Kinda Street Fighter territory and overplayed. We're trying to take the writing very seriously on this end, as the better the story, the less we get a 'lolfurries' stigma surrounding the game.
So are there the "What if?" stories or a canon storyline?

What are behind the decisions as to the way the characters move in their idles? In fact what was the motivation behind the way Vincent moves? I actually tried to move the way he moves IRL and it actually hurts a lot, especially the knees portion! It seems he can't seem to keep a firm stance. What I noticed, though, is Don is older and firmer, Matilda is a tough, experienced fighter because of her line of work (bartender), but Vincent seems to be in-training, so does that have something to do with the way he moves?
 
Although I'm really not a fan of anthro art, Don looks interesting however my main gripes are the fact that while ultimate finishers look cool, unless I'm missing something here, that time could of went into animating the other characters. Also as like Ultras in Street Fighter 4, a lot of flashy super moves that take ages to do become annoying to watch every time so I hope there's a skip button. In Skullgirls there's one cinematic super move and if you hold down punch it skips it entirely.

Another thing, sorry if this is stated somewhere (If so then feel free to just say so or link me) but what fighting game experiences do you guys have? As in have you guys been playing them for a long time, has anyone worked on any others etc.

For example Mike Z used to be a pro BlazBlue player.


Yeah I feel the same, ultimate finishers like that are not worht it for the players and for the animators, for the players because it will a long wait if other player does the move and It gets boring fast and for animators because is a lot of work, if every finisher is 15 second long, with 4 characters it will be 1 minute in total,for animation that is very expensive and consumes a lot of time.

I mean, what other 2D fighter has that?
 
I don't really feel like I'm getting answers. I mean, your answering, and clearing some things up, but on other things I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. I need to stop worrying about this, so I'll leave things at that. I won't donate, but I'll maybe buy the game when it maybe comes out. You guys have already gotten like 9k since you put up that Max vid, I'm sure you'll get your money.
 
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Even Fatalities in Mortal Kombat were entirely optional
 
Hey everyone, Ben Halstead here, the Lead Animator for Beast's Fury. I'd like to address your questions regarding our animation. (this is a long post - sorry!)

Regarding Vincent's animation retiming, our situation is this: We originally animated him at 24 frames per second. This is because most of my prior 2D animation experience was cinematic-style animation, and 24 fps is a common standard for such animation in the US. The frame data for all of our characters assumes a 60 fps functional frame rate. So, we later realized that it would be more convenient to animate at 30 fps, and then double the exposures for the animation in order to play it at 60 fps at perfect accuracy, rather than trying to force a 24 fps animation into 60 fps, which as some of you have noted, involves extending some exposures more than others. In addition, since the frame data assumes 60 fps, there are times when a move might have (for example) 3 startup frames at 60 fps. So, some further tweaking is required to match the animation (which has an even number of frames per exposure/hold because it was doubled from 30 fps) to the occasional odd-numbered frame number in the frame data. All of this is not that big of a deal for a 30 fps sprite animation, but it's a bit more of a hassle for Vincent, because 1) we're forcing his 24 fps animation to play at 60 fps, 2) we're figuring out where it would be better to round down rather than up with his exposures in order to match odd-numbered frame data, and 3) to top it all off, some of his earliest animation was made even before the IndieGoGo, and in fact even before we had ANY frame data at all or had the slightest clue of what we were doing, so we actually have to go back and add new frames of animation to some of his moves, or subtract old ones, to make it match the frame data.

Having said that, I want to clarify that all of this retiming for Vincent (which is currently almost done) has actually been happening pretty recently. I'll try to describe what happened to the IndieGoGo funds from the animation team's perspective. First of all, as we've mentioned, we severely underestimated our costs. Of the 21 grand we received, the animation team received a certain fraction of that, and that was doled out to (first of all) cover the costs of animating the roughs for Vincent and Don. As we worked, new moves were slowly added to the roster until the workload had nearly doubled, which also added to expenses. Then, when the roughs were finished, we set the team to work on inking, and soon learned firsthand why projects tend to contract out their cleanup animation. This process turned out to be the most lengthy and expensive part of our pipeline by a wide margin, and our remaining funds were spent on the first half of Vincent's inks. While a few dedicated artists cranked out those inks and a chunk of the inks for Don, my fiancee and I personally inked the last third to half of Vincent's animations without little or no additional pay, and recently finished. This is because I made a promise to my team and to all of our fans to finish this work for the budget we initially declared in the IndieGoGo, and I personally intend to continue until the demo is either completed or cancelled. That said, Ryhan has continued to support our team out of his own pocket whenever possible, to help us through the past few months, and a successful Kickstarter would allow me to work full time and hire a team again.

Regarding Don's fancy finisher animation: The animator who did that, as well as the entirety of Don's rough animation, is an old friend and colleague of mine. Knowing what he's capable of, I wanted to give him some creative freedom with the cinematic finisher. I admit that what he gave us was above and beyond our expectations, but not to the extent that we don't plan to use it in the game, and since his payment was agreed upon in advance, we paid no extra cost for the quality of that cinematic. We're all very proud of his work and plan to bring him back for more if this funding is successful. Although, he didn't design Don; to those who are wondering about the character designs, all of our characters so far were designed by the same Character Designer.

Many have noticed that Vincent's idle stance, and perhaps a couple of his other animations could use some work. I agree, because these were the very first animations made for this project, and we've come a long way since then (I first started on this about a year and a half ago, well before the previous IndieGoGo campaign). But while we would love to go back and rework these, we do have higher priorities for the immediate future, such as completing the rest of Vincent and Don. But rest assured they are targeted on our radar.

Regarding why we would animate at 30 fps: To clarify, we are not animating everything on 1's at 30 fps, or on 2's at 60 fps (as much as I wish we were all superhuman). We are generally animating on 2's, 3's, and 4's at 30 fps (it varies based on what looks good - the animators have some room for creative expression within the frame data), and then as I said above, multiplying the exposures x 2 to bring it in line with the 60 fps frame data. In fact, the number of frames in our animation has been around 1,000 - 1,300 per character so far, which is in line with many big-name fighters, and slightly less than Skullgirls.

In a nutshell, our work since the IndieGoGo has been a learning process for all of us on the Beast's Fury team, but as a result we are much more educated and organized with our project. At least regarding the animation team, the pricing we are asking for in the Kickstarter is based directly on the measured performances and costs of our team members as they worked on Vincent and Don. I will not go into too many specifics since our employment details are confidential. But the inking is the most difficult / expensive part, followed by the roughs, and then the flat colors, shading, and highlights are all somewhat quick to do by comparison, thanks to the digital software we're using. I don't really know how to break it down any further than that.

We remain a passionate and devoted team and I hope you will consider supporting us. Please let me know if you have any more questions. Thanks!
 
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Are yo planning on releasing character descriptions like lab zero did for the dlc characters? I'd love to have some content to pass around to people, and if they have a character they really click with then it would make it easier to get them to support.
 
So I guess they also started work on an Crocodile Cop. Where did this guy come from?
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Yo, I need a samurai girl to play as. Will this game have a samurai girl?
 
Yo, I need a samurai girl to play as. Will this game have a samurai girl?
If they're going to have a samurai girl, she needs to be either a monkey or a rabbit.
 
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Another question: Will you guys show a cost breakdown?
 
If they're going to have a samurai girl, she needs to be either a monkey or a rabbit.
Yo, I'd be down to play a female Usagi Yojimbo.
 
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His name is Sloane and they must have had him under the radar for some time, but they don't have him as a stretch goal as some other people we don't know are on there.
 
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I've been trying pretty hard to find recruit backers, but the majority of people are turned off by the furry art.
 
Just saw this new character on Maximilian's Facebook page.
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Ego the Cyber-Raptor! You all know who's voicing him.
 
Just saw this new character on Maximilian's Facebook page.
Ego the Cyber-Raptor! You all know who's voicing him.

Pretty much mained. Looks like Riptor, but better.
 
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so there old cost breakdown looked decent but now giving new characters with a lot less money, I can see the kickstarter failing again
 
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What in the hell? These people seriously need to get their goddamn shit together! If they're having a story mode, wouldn't original characters be first, then the expies would be stretch goals?
 
What in the hell? These people seriously need to get their goddamn shit together! If they're having a story mode, wouldn't original characters be first, then the expies would be stretch goals?
honestly due to the economic failure their kickstarter is in i wouldn't be surprised they are doing this to get the fan boys to donate
 
Two comments straight from facebook pointing out what's been argued about:
Ok, I know you really want this to happen; but you're telling people to support a project that has already taken peoples money and given them nothing in return (their Indiegogo). The team is clearly inexperienced and there's no guarantee that they can deliver on any of their promises.

From the lack of funding on their project, clearly everyone can already see that. So, now they've become desperate and are trying to cash-in on the popularity of friendly web personalities. They've already shifted focus from you to Egoraptor, it's a ton of bullshit.

A year after their first campaign, they don't have a single "complete" character. But now, we're supposed to throw our money at them, expecting them to complete 4 if we want Ego?

On top of that, their kickstarter page is a mess. They've shuffled their priorities a bunch of times since they launched the campaign. It just goes to show that instead of sticking to their vision, they're ready to bend any which way they think they can get some undeserved attention. I'd call them sellouts, but the name implies that they're profitable.

It kinda bugs me that they're doing "stretch goals" for each character and to make the game exist in general. Like I understand the guest characters and stuff but they're not going to be able to make the game at the minimum they're asking for. Stretch goals are for "after thoughts" like "if we have more money, we'll add an extra stage or get it on another console", not "we need 7x more than we're aiming for to make this game a reality"

Some people may not pay attention to the stretch goals and see that it makes it to like 100k and then are like "oh this doesn't need more money, it's already double funded." and then we have a fighting game with only 4 characters because they couldn't afford it (after already not doing well with their IndieGoGo.) The animation in this looks like it'd be fantastic, but I think they're not going about this the right way in terms of funding.

Also they're estimating to be done with this game in 2 months, having it in a pre-alpha stage with 2 characters not even done yet. I don't think I can trust funding this, with them having so little understanding on how this works.
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Ego and Benny should be the final stretch goals because then it's more incentive to get that far. Having every other main storyline character be stretch-goals after the guest characters doesn't make any sense.

Also
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If Beast's Fury somehow gets funded for $105,000 AUD, I hope he has a personality which is one of egotistical behavior, thinking he's the best, and acting like a gentleman unless he becomes upset or annoyed and doing feral stuff like riding on cars and beating up random people.
 
upload_2014-6-8_0-34-26.png

I just found this. I got to hand it to their artists, they sure can draw anthropomorphic animals really well! I also get the vibe that people like the animals that don't have fur.
 
Game looks fun, if I had money I'd totally back them. I like anthro art.
 
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