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USA [May 27-29] Combo Breaker 2016 (Chicago, IL)

Broken Loose said:
welp, so much for seeing anybody new get far

The stronger player will win more often in a 3/5 scenario- I don't see how this preventing newer players from getting further is a bad thing (unless you didn't mean to imply it was)

I actually prefer 2/3 for pools because it speeds things up but SG has the luxury of being a pretty speedy game already, so I support 3/5 for combo breaker.
 
Heads up for anyone entering Xrd, the poll results are in and Combo Breaker will officially be using the PS4 Revelator demo for the tournament over SIGN. Rev detects PS3 sticks just fine from what we've seen, but be aware that this is the version being played, so getcha matchup knowledge ready for the new characters.
 
@thehadou

Real quick just to verify after looking at the rule set.

Its okay for someone on win to switch the order of the team so long as its same order?

EXAMPLE:
Game 1 Win As Para/Double/Fukua
Game 2 Start as Double/Para/Fukua
 
Broken Loose said:
welp, so much for seeing anybody new get far.

This is regressive reasoning. Even in 2/3 the more adaptive player wins. As a newer player the 3/5 format allots more matches for experimentation and adaptation, while removing the inherent risk of losing strictly to a lack of game knowledge/gimmicks.

There is no reason to view 3/5 as being unfriendly to new players unless you already view 2/3 as being so. If we follow this thought process to its natural conclusion you're advocating for single match sets. Hail Mary play can be hype but I don't think it rewards the players in the bracket or the tournament viewership.

I want to see new players advancing because they adapted to or out-thought their opponent.

*edited for grammar.
 
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keninblack said:
@thehadou

Real quick just to verify after looking at the rule set.

Its okay for someone on win to switch the order of the team so long as its same order?

EXAMPLE:
Game 1 Win As Para/Double/Fukua
Game 2 Start as Double/Para/Fukua

No. The winner must keep the character/team and/or assists from the previous match. The order would stay the same as well as part of the "team." No deviation should be awarded to the winning player.
 
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thehadou said:
No. The winner must keep the character/team and/or assists from the previous match. The order would stay the same as well as part of the "team." No deviation should be awarded to the winning player.
Is this rule in place even considering the fact that you can change team order during the load screen by holding either or both Tag inputs? This was added as a feature to SG since it was a cool bug from MvC2.

Using this swaps position of the point with either of the back characters (Tag 1 for mid, Tag 2 for anchor), or it swaps both back characters with each other (hold both tags together, mid and anchor swap and point stays the same) without affecting assists. This lets you make one alteration to the order without allowing you to entirely reconstruct your team with the same characters. For example, you wouldn't be able to have your mid be your point and your point be your anchor, your point would have to become the new mid or anchor character. For duo teams, either tag will change the order since there's only 2 characters.

This doesn't let the player change the assist.

This order is then kept as is until the player decides to change it again at the next load screen.

Personally, I would like to have this allowed since it's a cool feature that was put in intentionally, however I agree that the winner should not be able to go back to character select at all to completely re-order the team and the winner definitely should not be able to change assists. At the end of a game, the winner should always have to hit "Play Again".
 
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That was my concern too was that Mike wanted that to be used in tournament play even for the winner, since they don't have to return to character select to do it.

But it's still up to the TO and I'm fine with it not being allowed.
 
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I think at Maxout we've always allowed the character switch order change, but no full team order changes.
 
I'm with worldjem on this one. Holding tag to switch team order at the versus screen was put in as a call back to marvel 2. And it was allowed during its time on the tournament circuit.

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I'm open to having a conversation on team order switching but heres the thought on why its not allowed currently.

You're Player 1, you win game 1. As Player 2 I identify that my main issue is your point character. I reconstruct my team to deal with that point character (for better or worse after the point is eliminated). You, already in the advantageous position of having won, recognize that I've changed my team to neutralize a perceived problem point and swap your point character. Now my adaptation attempt is potentially neutralized and, depending on how big a gambit I was taking, I'm in an even worse position than game 1 against the new team order.

I'm not against swapping being allowed if its the vocal community preference (which is why its allowed in KOF at CB). I'm not keen on it though when assists and assist order make up such a large part of competitive play.
 
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I'm signed up for 2 of the top 4 games.

Confused that Mystery Game Tournament isn't at the top of the list. That's at least a quarter of the reason I like CB. Practicing my mummy loops in Shaq Fu in preparation.
 
Jason said:
Nice. We in there.
Glad to see that the game is still growing. One of the top games in one of the top tournaments of the year.
 
I feel bad cause I'm going to do so bad at this tourney for Skullgirls most likely since I've been putting so much time into Killer Instinct.

I guess helping the tourney numbers is what is important. And seeing you guys :0

Speaking of that, I should really buy my plane tickets...
 
thehadou said:
I'm open to having a conversation on team order switching but heres the thought on why its not allowed currently.

You're Player 1, you win game 1. As Player 2 I identify that my main issue is your point character. I reconstruct my team to deal with that point character (for better or worse after the point is eliminated). You, already in the advantageous position of having won, recognize that I've changed my team to neutralize a perceived problem point and swap your point character. Now my adaptation attempt is potentially neutralized and, depending on how big a gambit I was taking, I'm in an even worse position than game 1 against the new team order.

I'm not against swapping being allowed if its the vocal community preference (which is why its allowed in KOF at CB). I'm not keen on it though when assists and assist order make up such a large part of competitive play.
I'm curious about @Mike_Z 's opinion on this.
 
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Re: Switching

It's always been acceptable to switch in MvC2, at any time, even as the winner. It was also allowed for the winner in CvS2.
HOWEVER. In practice, this didn't occur very often.
In MvC2 most teams are strictly good in one order, with a specific "assist only" character, so you're not going to suddenly put Psylocke or Storm first and have Magneto in the back, you're gonna play the team in the same order you just did. In CvS2 occasionally people put a different R1 first, but the R2 rarely moved.

I have no qualms with allowing it at all times, as long as your characters and assist types remain the same.
I look at a tournament as "you're playing in an arcade", so if the game allows you to do it between matches then it's allowed between tournament matches, aside from re-picking your team.
(And if the loser attempts to counterpick I say give the winner as much ability to fsck you on that as possible, you counterpicking bastard. I don't think that's unfair at all. Plus the loser can pick their team in the wrong order, too, to further obfuscate the whole thing, and maybe the winner screws themselves over as a result.)

BUT I'd like to propose a thing, if people do mind that extensively:
You can switch your team via the loading screen as long as you're not the winner of the last game.
So first game, any order -> any order for both players. THIS is the real mixup anyway, and why I would not like to say "no you can never do it".
Second game and on, loser can still do it, which doesn't really afford them anything other than like 2 seconds of the other person mentally preparing for the other character.
(A small bonus of this is not having to go back to character select for the loser, which saves some time if they remember to do it.)

I personally am in favor of just "you can switch order whenever" because I come from MvC2. But I can understand that this community is not MvC2.

So there ya go, wishy-washy as all heck. :^P
 
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Mike_Z said:
Re: Switching

It's always been acceptable to switch in MvC2, at any time, even as the winner. It was also allowed for the winner in CvS2.
HOWEVER. In practice, this didn't occur very often.
In MvC2 most teams are strictly good in one order, with a specific "assist only" character, so you're not going to suddenly put Psylocke or Storm first and have Magneto in the back....


Says you. Cyclops gonna blast your face. Or i guess MSS.
 
Do we want to make a poll out of this?
 
Just to be clear, I don't support disallowing it entirely.
For me it's just between "the winner of the last game can do it", or "they can't". All other times it should be allowed.

[edit]
I INCLUDED the ability to switch order at the loading screen SPECIFICALLY to prevent counterpicking being as good a tactic. If that helps the decision any. It is still a tactic, but you are guessing just as much as you are sure, now.

[edit edit]
alexpi said:
Says you. Cyclops gonna blast your face. Or i guess MSS.
I said "most". Also, MSS is order dependent by which Sent assist you choose, and somewhat by which Storm assist you choose. Which you aren't allowed to change.
 
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alexpi said:
Confused that Mystery Game Tournament isn't at the top of the list. That's at least a quarter of the reason I like CB. Practicing my mummy loops in Shaq Fu in preparation.

Mystery always hits its cap. Listing it with the other games lets people know which games are above or below 128. Since I don't like releasing registrant numbers prior to registration closing that means Mystery can't be listed.
 
I've been taking into account the switching opinions (both here and elsewhere). I'll make a final decision at some point but not setting a deadline on the decision. I normally lean on not allowing it but I'm finding more support from it than I expected amongst non-MvC2 players.

So....I'll keep you posted.
 
Pause! Hail Storm!
Ho! Ho! Ho!
Ho!
Ho! Ho!

Upon further investigation it looks like Storm doesn't say anything during Ice Storm in 2, actually...
 
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Skarmand said:
Upon further investigation it looks like Storm doesn't say anything during Ice Storm in 2, actually...
Yep, and it's called Hailstorm. Also it's "Freeze! Ice Storm!" in MvC3. So yeah, 10/10 there. :^P
 
:^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^)

On a somewhat useful note, Imo point character should not be able to be changed if you win. (I am biased though hence the faces)
 
dd34e1ef38.png
I see your true feelings Cloud.
Let it out.
 
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Mike_Z said:
I INCLUDED the ability to switch order at the loading screen SPECIFICALLY to prevent counterpicking being as good a tactic. If that helps the decision any. It is still a tactic, but you are guessing just as much as you are sure, now.
That's the exact reason I'm for always letting both players switch order on the loading screen too. To me, letting the winner switch order on the load screen feels like a nice middle ground between counterpicking being useless, i.e. team lock for all players with no counterpicking allowed, and counterpicking being really good, i.e. the loser can craft their entire team around beating the winner's lineup and the winner doesn't even have the opportunity to guess the opponent's order and try to switch to compensate.

If making counterpicking slightly less good of a tactic means players are slightly more incentivized to spend their time practicing one team and getting really good with it than they otherwise would be (as opposed to spending their time practicing multiple counterpick characters with the plan of playing as many lopsided matchups as possible), that's a good thing in my eyes.
 
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Some of us SG players just never stopped playing MvC2. I've been having a blast figuring out a Ruby Heart team.
 
So in regards to this discussion about team switching and order changes. This is just a clarification and asking for a general oppinion. In the first game I pick my team and I see the opponent counter picks my point character. Am I allowed to use the tag team order switch to change my point character AT the first match to throw off this counter pick or is the first game set in stone prior to the loading screen?
 
I remembered from way back that character lock rules were there to imitate arcades once games became tournament viable on home consoles so the experience would be the same no matter the platform but I wasn't sure.

I always knew the ability to switch during the load screen was a call back to marvel 2.

With it being confirmed by Mike that it was because of that, I think team/assist lock should be the rule with order switching on the load screen allowed at all times.

In short, you should be allowed to switch order as long as you don't do it in character select.


Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
joshb911 said:
Am I allowed to use the tag team order switch to change my point character AT the first match to throw off this counter pick or is the first game set in stone prior to the loading screen?

Yes. That's gonna be allowed no matter the decision on whether winners can do it or not.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
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joshb911 said:
So in regards to this discussion about team switching and order changes. This is just a clarification and asking for a general oppinion. In the first game I pick my team and I see the opponent counter picks my point character. Am I allowed to use the tag team order switch to change my point character AT the first match to throw off this counter pick or is the first game set in stone prior to the loading screen?
I did this vs SIG at NEC so I certainly hope it's allowed!
 
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