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Painwheel general discussion AKA GET OUT OF MY THREAD

Surfing the hairball and doing an air lk buer sounds like a good idea actually, especially if I call double while doing the buer.
 
I wish Painwheel had tear shots.



Those are actually sick though.
 
wrong thread :p
 
Hey guys, I'm currently working on an in depth painwheel guide, and just want to make sure if I use anyone's videos/posts for references, they won't get upset. I'll be sure to give credit. I'm open to help if anyone wants to see what I have so far as well. Probably will be done with it at the end of the week(I hope)
 
WarpedEcho said:
Hey guys, I'm currently working on an in depth painwheel guide, and just want to make sure if I use anyone's videos/posts for references, they won't get upset. I'll be sure to give credit. I'm open to help if anyone wants to see what I have so far as well. Probably will be done with it at the end of the week(I hope)
You have permission to use my sick tips and tricks, all of which I stole from other people.
 
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WarpedEcho said:
Hey guys, I'm currently working on an in depth painwheel guide
If you need any help, I'm up for it. Glad to look at what you have or provide any info. I also like to proofread.
 
Zevak said:
It's pretty good.
Goddamn that's cool. I wonder if I can do something similar with my team of Peacock/Double/Painwheel.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Goddamn that's cool. I wonder if I can do something similar with my team of Peacock/Double/Painwheel.

I don't doubt that you can setup the same thing, but knowing how car doesn't last as long as dynamo, may be kind of hard to get any good damage off of the explosion + armor because the more time you have to spend comboing with PW, the more the DHC damage scales. You can see that in my previous video, which looks cool but... the damage is lacking on the armor + explosion =-(

First try at it:


Take in mind that this one is 2v2, whereas the other one is 3v2.
 
Zevak said:
I don't doubt that you can setup the same thing, but knowing how car doesn't last as long as dynamo, may be kind of hard to get any good damage off of the explosion + armor because the more time you have to spend comboing with PW, the more the DHC damage scales. You can see that in my previous video, which looks cool but... the damage is lacking on the armor + explosion =-(

First try at it:

Take in mind that this one is 2v2, whereas the other one is 3v2.
Well, the damage is whatever, I would only be using it as a style combo. Like the situation where it comes up where all my characters are still alive, I have 3 bars, and I land a hit with Peacock while they're in the corner? If all that stuff happens then I probably have a massive lead, in which case I don't mind giving up some damage to do something cool.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Well, the damage is whatever, I would only be using it as a style combo. Like the situation where it comes up where all my characters are still alive, I have 3 bars, and I land a hit with Peacock while they're in the corner? If all that stuff happens then I probably have a massive lead, in which case I don't mind giving up some damage to do something cool.

True! But I know I'll be using that two meter version with my Peacock/Painwheel team like... every chance I get despite damage. Hoping on finding a mid-screener later on.
 
Zevak said:
I don't doubt that you can setup the same thing, but knowing how car doesn't last as long as dynamo, may be kind of hard to get any good damage off of the explosion + armor because the more time you have to spend comboing with PW, the more the DHC damage scales. You can see that in my previous video, which looks cool but... the damage is lacking on the armor + explosion =-(
I almost would love to cut it short and use the absorbed damage for a reset or mixup. Can you tag peacock back in safely after the explosion?
 
WarpedEcho said:
I almost would love to cut it short and use the absorbed damage for a reset or mixup. Can you tag peacock back in safely after the explosion?

Yep, they are going to be flying for a long time from the explosion if you just armor it and tag out. In the combo I just interrupt them from flying away. Heck, you can probably just armor it, tag out, and do an argus or even teleport at them and extend the combo.

In fact, that is an extremely good idea because half of that damage Painwheel takes is red damage for Painwheel.

Edit: It's completely safe to tag in peacock after the explosion it looks like. Very hard to connect an Argus after the explosion + raw tag but it does leave them at a full screen away which is very good for Peacock.
 
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Zevak said:
Yep, they are going to be flying for a long time from the explosion if you just armor it and tag out. In the combo I just interrupt them from flying away. Heck, you can probably just armor it, tag out, and do an argus or even teleport at them and extend the combo.

In fact, that is an extremely good idea because half of that damage Painwheel takes is red damage for Painwheel.

Edit: It's completely safe to tag in peacock after the explosion it looks like. Very hard to connect an Argus after the explosion + raw tag but it does leave them at a full screen away which is very good for Peacock.
This also gives you a ton of damage to dhc into level 3 later if you get the meter. Off raw argus you get a 8.6k pre combo. I think I like this option more, as you get to keep your team order this way and basically acts like a really strong Sagat angry scar for later. Not to mention you get good meter economy on the HI and HI Painwheel for later. 1 meter HI Deathcrawl also deals good damage for dhc from argus (Which lets you keep your revenge damage for the incoming mixup as well).

Edit: and this also means that you might want to pick an assist for painwheel that doesn't use up your revenge damage, or at least be wary not to waste it in a combo extension late in a combo. There's always novelties like Flight Alpha counter, which is good for double since she won't have a reliable reversal. I guess you could use mp nail as well, but you already have peacock on your team.

Edit Part 2 Double Boogaloo: Tested it this morning, you can time double's hard tag (the timing is a little tight) after you absorb the hit to continue the combo. This is looking to be the coolest combo of all time. If you do keep Painwheel with a normal assist, this will allow for a high damage starter left right mixup with double for later.
 
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Zevak said:

It's pretty good.

This combo could be better. The PW followup could be optimized a ton, since OTG hasn't been used. Start by dropping some of the s.HPs for HK.Buer (s.HP should only go in when you have Stun to spare and you're out of restands). Those j.LK,j.MK aerial strings aren't worth the damage/stun. You could be doing j.Whatever xx Air.LK.Buer instead for far far more damage. I think you could actually be killing without even using the Deathcrawl. <_<

You should be putting Buers wherever you can, and burning single normals on restands only when necessary (One is enough, never use 2). Consider using L.Stinger only as a last resort, as the Stun is almost always better spent on a Buer, which does at least 3 times as much damage than every other normal once you've hit minimum scaling (Save for f.HK)
 
Krackatoa said:
This combo could be better. The PW followup could be optimized a ton, since OTG hasn't been used. Start by dropping some of the s.HPs for HK.Buer (s.HP should only go in when you have Stun to spare and you're out of restands). Those j.LK,j.MK aerial strings aren't worth the damage/stun. You could be doing j.Whatever xx Air.LK.Buer instead for far far more damage. I think you could actually be killing without even using the Deathcrawl. <_<

You should be putting Buers wherever you can, and burning single normals on restands only when necessary (One is enough, never use 2). Consider using L.Stinger only as a last resort, as the Stun is almost always better spent on a Buer, which does at least 3 times as much damage than every other normal once you've hit minimum scaling (Save for f.HK)

Yeah, I know I went for the easy route, but I'll go ahead and try later to optimize that Painwheel followup. Truth be told, I just wanted to hit 345/350 undizzy before the least string just to do so without having to think too much about it =-P.
 
It's not as easy as it looks, haha. The starting route changes based on the DHC.

For Peacock/Double/PW - Corner:

Post Lenny xx DHC Back Car xx DHC Install ->

sj.Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.MK xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
2.j.HP(Charged + Absorb Blast + Restand) >
LK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.LK xx Air.HK.Buer >
j.MP(4) xx Air.HK.Buer >
s.MK(4) xx HK.Buer xx Fly > 2j.LK(Whiff) >
OTG cr.MP(4) xx HK.Buer xx Fly >
j.HK >
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,f.HK xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

I think this is optimal for comboing from Car. Car doesn't cause enough damage to Lenny when compared to Dynamo. I'm not sure if there's a better way to get in j.HP blast absorb before scaling ruins it. D:

Lenny xx Dynamo xx Install is #1 swagDHCstall. Try frankensteining together the last half the combo above with the Pea/Bella/Wheel combo, and see if the damage is any better.
 
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Krackatoa said:
It's not as easy as it looks, haha. The starting route changes based on the DHC.

For Peacock/Double/PW - Corner:

Post Lenny xx DHC Back Car xx DHC Install ->

sj.Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.MK xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
2.j.HP(Charged + Absorb Blast + Restand) >
LK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.LK xx Air.HK.Buer >
j.MP(4) xx Air.HK.Buer >
s.MK(4) xx HK.Buer xx Fly > 2j.LK(Whiff) >
OTG cr.MP(4) xx HK.Buer xx Fly >
j.HK >
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,f.HK xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

I think this is optimal for comboing from Car. Car doesn't cause enough damage to Lenny when compared to Dynamo. I'm not sure if there's a better way to get in j.HP blast absorb before scaling ruins it. D:

Lenny xx Dynamo xx Install is #1 swagDHCstall. Try frankensteining together the last half the combo above with the Pea/Bella/Wheel combo, and see if the damage is any better.

Hahaha, sure thing. For SOME reason I didn't even think about the fact that I was you know... hatred installed. I can see why you were disappointed. I'll be sure to try that out.

Edit: Okay, so it does 15935 damage without the Deathcrawl. Definitely an increase in damage.

I use this:

Dynamo Bomb

J.FP , Fly, J.LKBuer, (i need to fly cancel into buer because of the awkward angle)
Fly, J.LK, J.HK buer,
J.Lp, J.HK buer,
J.MK, J.HK buer,
S.MP, J.MP(4), J.HK buer,
S.MK, HK buer,
J.HK, S.lp, S.lk, Cr.MPx4, F+HKx4, LK buer xx Deathcrawl

I never use a groundbounce... and I really wish I could at the J.HK so I can J.HK into LK buer, but when the J.HK hits I'm at 340 undizzy =-(
 
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Zevak said:
Hahaha, sure thing. For SOME reason I didn't even think about the fact that I was you know... hatred installed. I can see why you were disappointed. I'll be sure to try that out.

Edit: Okay, so it does 15935 damage without the Deathcrawl. Definitely an increase in damage.

I use this:

Dynamo Bomb

J.FP , Fly, J.LKBuer, (i need to fly cancel into buer because of the awkward angle)
Fly, J.LK, J.HK buer,
J.Lp, J.HK buer,
J.MK, J.HK buer,
S.MP, J.MP(4), J.HK buer,
S.MK, HK buer,
J.HK, S.lp, S.lk, Cr.MPx4, F+HKx4, LK buer xx Deathcrawl

I never use a groundbounce... and I really wish I could at the J.HK so I can J.HK into LK buer, but when the J.HK hits I'm at 340 undizzy =-(

I wasn't disappointed, you do all the hard work. I just steal your shit and make it shinier.

Try:

j.HP(4) xx Fly xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.MK xx HK.Buer >
j.LK xx Air.HK.Buer >
j.MP(4) xx Air.HK.Buer >
s.MK(4) xx HK.Buer xx Fly >
j.LP xx Air.HK.Buer >
cr.MP xx HK.Buer xx Fly > Whiff.2j.LK > 285
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,f.HK xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

You're going into Install with 50 Stun, right? That should work.

Because of the ground bounce, you can follow up despite not having any Fly stocks left on the opening string.

Also, always use j.MK before your jumping lights if you can help it.

EDIT: OH FUCK BAD MATH HAHAHA FIXED

EDIT: Shufflin this shit around cause bad notation typo
 
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Krackatoa said:
I wasn't disappointed, you do all the hard work. I just steal your shit and make it shinier.

Try:

j.HP(4) xx Fly xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.MK xx HK.Buer >
j.LK xx Air.HK.Buer >
j.MP(4) xx Air.HK.Buer >
s.MK(4) xx HK.Buer xx Fly >
j.LP xx Air.HK.Buer >
cr.MP xx HK.Buer xx Fly > Whiff.2j.LK > 285
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,f.HK xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

Aww man, Hatred Install runs out right when I get to that j.LP into HK buer. Right as soon as I hit that part, it's at 290 undizzy too which means I could have fit in the rest of the combo. Maybe I can just cheat and have Painwheel at like 80% health.

Edit: I can confirm that if Painwheel just has a little more time in hatred install, it will kill without the extra deathcrawl as long as you do HK buer xx fly xx J.LK buer at the end
 
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Oh yeah. You have to be tight with your strings for it to work with 100% Life PW. I did it, it's MAD tight, though.
 
Krackatoa said:
Oh yeah. You have to be tight with your strings for it to work with 100% Life PW. I did it, it's MAD tight, though.
just throw out pw assist a bunch : P. What do you think of the double extension off of Lenny after absorption?
 

Found a way to make it work, I think it's been taken just about as far as we can take it. I did puss out at the end by using the lp lk mk fp string, but I just find the lp lk cr mp restand string really hard to do on fortune.

Also, for some reason, I am very, VERY happy Painwheel decided to say "DIE!" with that last buer.
 
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So... Im thinking that hk bomber might be one of painwheels better assist choices... Here's why:



1. Does more damage as a counter call to bad assist calls... Would you rather punish with an mk bomber or an hk bomber if its an assist?

2. If you find it really hard to convert mk bomber, like myself, then hk bomber becomes a better poke on hit cause of the damage and corner push.

3. Better corner push on hit.

4. Locks down longer against cornered foes since the hits are spaced out more.

5. First hit has more range than mk bomber, so while mk bomber has its invincibility, hk bomber has better natural priority.

6. Harder to punish for duckers since it flys over opponents heads so far.... Generally wont get sucked in and punished by an assist or jump back.

In my eyes the only thing that mk bomber gives is its invincibility and better hitconfirm
But mk bomber is vulnerable for its first 4 frames making it not the greatest reversal, and it also has less hitbox priority.

And.... There is a master blaster combo available from it that i will now post in the combo thread (does about 25k total damage for 3 meters, is situational, but if that situation isnt there then it corner carries 90% of the screen and kills an assist outright for 1 meter. Anywho, the combo thread)
 
Zevak said:
Found a way to make it work, I think it's been taken just about as far as we can take it. I did puss out at the end by using the lp lk mk fp string, but I just find the lp lk cr mp restand string really hard to do on fortune.

Also, for some reason, I am very, VERY happy Painwheel decided to say "DIE!" with that last buer.

This video is sex for my eyes.

Also, yeah, not sure if the restand even works on Fortune.

Either way, this video is everything I could ever want from a PW video.

But yeah, if you land the j.HP just right, you don't have to fly cancel to get the buer followup. This means you'll have time for cr.MP instead of s.MP.

Aesthetically, though, I prefer s.MP.
 
Does PW have a good PBGC move/s?
 
Spencer said:
Does PW have a good PBGC move/s?
Flight if you think you can steal the pressure away from them/get out of it, esp with an assist. Buer if they're going in too hard.
 
New painwheel team (I still love the above one because killing a happy birthdayed character from further out than midscreen or having corner carry against a single character makes my insides all warm and happy feeling :) )


However, I'm constantly on the lookout for "new" tech or old tech that I may not have previously evaluated correctly.

So.... I'm thinking that doubles cilia slide might really be "that" assist. That I've been looking for for painwheel.... Every assist I've used, even hornet bomber seems seriously lacking somewhere.

First of all, let me say that duck said that lockdown is dea in sg... And I agree with him whether it was said in jest or not. Lockdown has so many natural counters that it isn't really that strong. You can easily autoguard during it just by pushblocking and then wiggling the stick along the back edges, which takes ALOT of the bite out of lockdown. But there's also alpha counter to deal with as well as just setting up the lockdown isn't necessarily easy either... All combine to make lockdown a bit stronger on paper than in actual matches.


Second of all, it's my opinion that this game is ALL about assist confirms and super hard to react to mixups. Painwheels high/low is unfortunately very slow offline and easy to react to., and even still, low/throw mixups aren't the biz because the throw option does less damage... And then there's the fact that painwheel has a hard time confirming assists with the general assist package of bomber/pillar/updo... Pw generally has to be moving forward as the assist hits or at the very least not moving backward... Unfortunately she has her best priority while moving backward.


So to try and make a long story shorter, I've been looking for assists that would boost her mixup ability while ALSO giving her easier hitconfirms.... And the 3 assists I've come up with are:

Cilia slide,excelebella,hk hairball


And besides the obvious things these are the reasons:

Cilia slide is ridonkulous when used in blockstrings and canceling into flight plus slide... Basically you can make it put out unblockable protection... That's how fast it is... However, painwheel can also make either the high flight attack or the low slide, hit first.


So basically it's an incredible blockstring mixup tool for painwheel, and it's almost exactly like doubles flesh step plus assist mixups except instead of left/right its high/low

And what about the easier confirm part?
Well cilia slide knocks behind double... Which is exactly where a retreating painwheel will be... So it knocks closer making confirms much easier.

"But it's shit for neutral" this is both true and false. When painwheel is flying the opponent WILL NOT BE IN CROUCH BLOCK. This means that they will be open to random slide assists. Or jumping in the air...this brings us to our next assist:

Excelebella


Ok so the opponent just wants to stay in the air all day right... Cause fuck getting tripped by slide bs and fuck sitting there in crouch block waiting for ai wheel to jumpin with j.mp

Well now the opponent has to deal with excelebella. And as far as a hitconfirm goes, if we can't hitconfirm excelebella, then something is horribly wrong.

Also note that in non tight blockstrings, the opponent will most likely be trying to chicken block painwheels cilia slide/fly offense... And that leaves them open to bellas AA command grab. And also of course, excelebella is a good neutral game assist cause it tends to keep opponents more grounded which is where painwheel wants people.

And finally hairball:


I won't say to much about it except that it is basically filias version of hornet bomber and is used in basically the same way. After that it also compliments both of the above assists by either controlling a different space (excelebella) or by offering a lockdown/crossup/frame trap tool for double.


But I wholeheartedly believe that this may be the best fundamental team assists for pw... As far as assists are concerned they take advantage of painwheels advantages very well (slide) or cover her weaknesses very well such as hitconfirming and AA (excelebella)

So yeah I'm going to be trying permutations of those 3 assists and see how the team does.
 
Dime_x said:
Stuff about Cilia Slide
Actually, I had been using Cilia Slide exclusively since my days of Original Skullgirls (Since I didn't want to be associated with all the Double Butt users). I'm not going to be hipster about it, but it's been a very good assist for me for all my character changes. And currently, as you said, she's VERY good with Painwheel. I've even started to try and come up with Cilia Slide hitconfirms with Double on point. Though I don't know how good that will turn out in the long run with it's HUGE risk and all...
 
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Trying to rock PW/PS/CB right now and having a tough time picking order and assists (not to mention trying to remember how to play bella). Usually stick with HP lock n load, but copter is too good. Do you go for lockdown or a way to get in? Do you want to compliment PS mixups or zoning? That is lesser of an issue since I'll go with mp/hp nail if i use copter, but lnl is a better zoning tool than nail imo.
 
why put pw on point when you have that dhc tho
EDIT: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, DIME?! PW's high/low is great!
 
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ainwheels high/low is unfortunately very slow offline and easy to react to

What high/low are you running? She's got an instant 50/50 in the form of flight -> 3jlp/ 3jlp(whiff) 2lp

hitconfirming

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that hitconfirming is one of her biggest weaknesses. Buer reaper and flight cancel give her tremendous ability to confirm off any hit.
 
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GO TO HELL said:
What high/low are you running? She's got an instant 50/50 in the form of flight -> 3jlp/ 3jlp(whiff) 2lp



I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that hitconfirming is one of her biggest weaknesses. Buer reaper and flight cancel give her tremendous ability to confirm off any hit.

Her instant 50/50 loses to gatling jabs and the incessant super spam that occurs in this game of late. Not to mention, she's so pushblock prone that getting to that high/low mixup is a game in itself.
 
Spencer said:
Her instant 50/50 loses to gatling jabs and the incessant super spam that occurs in this game of late. Not to mention, she's so pushblock prone that getting to that high/low mixup is a game in itself.


Well, yes. If it wasn't she'd be disgustingly overpowered.

And anything with a gap loses to mash super. That's why you need to train people to block. Also, she's not that pushblock prone, really. What you need to do is use a multi-hitting normal, of which you have many, then take advantage of flight cancel, or hatred guard -> flight. If done properly, the pushblock will turn into a back dash and you get a free combo.
 
GO TO HELL said:
What high/low are you running? She's got an instant 50/50 in the form of flight -> 3jlp/ 3jlp(whiff) 2lp



I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that hitconfirming is one of her biggest weaknesses. Buer reaper and flight cancel give her tremendous ability to confirm off any hit.


Er.... You have no low attacks in that first paragraph.

Also, yes I messed up when I said no hitconfirms...like what I said at the top of that paragraph, I MEANT bad at converting from ASSIST hitconfirms. Ie running after a successful neutral game updo/pillar/Bomber and getting the otg into full combo. I mean sure she can of course get those combos from certain positions but of all the cast she has one of the hardest times cause of the combination of her slow cr.lk, and slow dash startup. She can use lk buer to otg and it gets a bit better as far as successful conversions go, but she has to generally plan ahead better as well.

As far as high /low game she really doesn't have one offline that is any good. fly df +j.lk/lp is easy to react to offline. Doing flight cancel into cr.lk is also easy to react to... Her cr.lk is 11 frame startup and the slowest cr.lk in the game.

it isn't that her high/low game can never work... It's that it takes a lot of mind games and conditioning to apply against anyone that has a good amount of anti painwheel experience...which weakens the tactic considerably and makes it basically useless as a baseline strat. Very useful when not relied upon, but there are on,y so many attacks in the game... We have to rely on some things

Fly into High/throw is much better as far as being able to actually have a viable mixup... She can do stuff like fly df+lk or fly df airthrow wiff land and immediate throw... But like I said, throws are lower damage and basing an offense off of them isn't good.

I would know, cause I throw alot.
 
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Take advantage of the fact people think you're going to do a high by doing cr.lk cr.mk cr.hk and use up your OTG to confirm off of that sweep.
Do cr.lk FC2 j.lk for super fast high/low.
Do cr.lk FC2 j.lp and throw.
PW has great mixup, thats never been a problem of hers :^p

Edit: I can't read today. disregard half of this post
 
GO TO HELL said:
Well, yes. If it wasn't she'd be disgustingly overpowered.

And anything with a gap loses to mash super. That's why you need to train people to block. Also, she's not that pushblock prone, really. What you need to do is use a multi-hitting normal, of which you have many, then take advantage of flight cancel, or hatred guard -> flight. If done properly, the pushblock will turn into a back dash and you get a free combo.

I'm with Dime on this one. I find throw to be a far greater boon to PW (and I throw all the freaking time).

Her high/low is average... at best. Painwheel isn't dangerous because she's in your face. She's dangerous once she lands that first hit.

And I think you understate her weakness to pushblock. j.MP and j.HK (the two I find I go in with the most) are infinitely pushblockable, even with flight cancels.
 
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