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Shin Megami Tensei and Persona

Nap1400 said:
Hahahahahahahahaha really you're going to compare P3 and P4 to Final Hallway XIII

...okay maybe that comparison's a bit accurate but I think that's overblowing it.

Easy to understand isn't necessarily a bad thing when the alternative involves RNG conversations and mashing X and O to get the perfect combination of skills rather than simply selecting them (thank you Devil Survivor). I will say that the modern Persona series could use some better dungeon designs (not randomly generated ones at least) and maybe some better villains and stuff, but to completely dismiss them all is kinda acting elitist and the reason that Persona fans have a tendency to never get along.

Dungeon designs are not the issue, but the tone and the way it is handled: things don't advance naturally, and when they do, everything gets a magical plot device that makes everything cool, easy to deal and bearable.


WARNING: WALL OF TEXT ON THE SPOILERS!

FIRST the old SMT vs Persona dilemma:

Every conflict, every shade of gray, every morally questionable action or character dies or gets a magical/dramatical remedy from it. there is ONLY ONE TIME you have a serious choice to make, and it gives you an extremely boring month until it gives fruit. They mitigate every single conflict to go ahead with the script and character's stereotypes

The plot goes too straightfoward, and the Social links feels more like an extra. Any decision the player makes have no weight until the very end. The world around you seems to have absolutely no impact on what you're doing.

Also, you have no sense of "cause and effect" on the plot. things just... happen. This is a problem in every Atlus RPG, but the "daily activity" system of the newer personas makes it even worse. your only option is literally wait days until something happens! and when it's over, it's like it never happened!



Ken and Shinjiro ended with an extremely dramatical death, and nothing you did expanded it. it COULD let things go to the bitter end and the player have a tough choice, like letting ken avenge his mother or defend shinjiro.

Yukari had problems accepting her father - BAM! Father is suddenly a martyr

Chihiro and Junpei. They nullified her "death" just so Junpei didn't needed to be gloomy (he kinda grows up... a little)

All the social links become meaningless when you end them. I'd easily switch 8 links for one or two new characters that actually served some purpose in the story if i befriended them

Kill nyx or not: THIS is a choice that changes things, but the month following it isn't well handled, it's not just gloomy, it's plain boring, and the characters do nothing but think their decision over and over instead of doing something. I think P4 averts that, but only on the ending

The main party: absolutely no choice you make results in a character getting in or out of your team. In persona 1, your decisions had this big impact on who would follow you. In persona 2, the group was closed, so there was no "leftovers" in the team, but geting the enhanced and ultimate personas needed you to make the right decisions in the game. Doesn't affect the plot, but have some consequence

SECOND: The sugar-coated overly teen world

the "shadow" and "alternate world" concepts kinda started to taker shape on persona 1, but instead of just some insecurities, it got to a f*ckin' level of escapism and nihilism that, even if ALSO handled poorly (can't blame them entirely, it was their second attempt at it), it gives you something to think about for some minutes, and you can kinda sympathise with the main villain (she's twisted, but she's twisted for a reason)

Persona 2 evolves it and the character development. Many issues that "look" childish have more impact, and even the fact they're "kids stuff" causes it to hit the player even more

The whole incident that started the "mask madness" is amazing. It's a rare case of a game plot where children's innocence can have a devastating effect

The game actually gives a reason for the characters' natures: Michelle's personality and appearance is totally justified by his childhood. he's not a visual kei hedonist just because "gamers would like it". It also doubles as his form of running away of the destiny his father is forcing on him

Tatsuya and Katsuya are brothers, but at the same time Katsuya works as a father figure. tatsuya is a "badass biker" to contrast with his "goody two-shoes police officer" brother. Also, both love the same woman (this is shown on the eternal punishment).

Ginko likes kung fu because she could never be an american (and she was mocked for being caucasian) and her father (Steven Segal) wanted her to be the "stereotype japanese woman". Compare it to chie, that likes to kick things for the hell of it

Jun is the deepest and saddest creature of the lot. and, in a sense, he likes Kazuya more for admiration than attraction

Most of the characters have father issues, aside from their insecurities. When they face their "shadows", the dialogues are darker and more twisted than P4 or P4A (hell, Ginko's shadow admit she was into prostitution and using drugs dammit!

In the end of Innocent Sin, one of the final bosses is the personification of everyone's fears (their parents) And you were a pawn in a big game till the very end, having to reset the world just to save the woman you love, but erasing every moment you had with your frineds from history. talk about depressing!


that is something that persona 3 handles poorly IMO. Same reasons stated as above, but he tries too hard to make the game "rated t for teen". Even THAT depressing thing for the end is poorly handled. "The answer" in FES helped little in that regard.



The ideas are not organized, but you get what i mean right?

IMO, the games with the best approach plot wise is Devil Survivor (the first one), which strikes a perfect balance of depth, choices and responsability, gameplay and character development and the Digital Devil Saga Duology.
 
I have a friend that constantly reminds me how much he believes P4's ending is so much better than P3's I kinda agree with him, and we come up with tons of head canons.

once Yu graduates he moves to Inaba because fuck da city life! INABA 4 LYFE!
 
DDB said:
Meanwhile main SMT is just happy to have games.
At this point I'm happy to even get ports of all the ps2 and pre-ps2 era games I've already played.
 
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well, atlus is a business and business have never been rooted in quality, but rather in mainstream and popular appeal
hence why we got skullfucked/are still getting skullfucked with persona 4
because it was/is popular

Persona 2 will always be the apex in what the series originally stood for, in that it was a departure from the main SMT series by choosing to instead focus less on morality and more on psychology, with the characters all having deep-seated issues that pretty much all felt realistic and relatable to their own degrees. This differs from Persona 3, which had Anime Teenager Problems (tm), and Persona 4, which had more relatable problems in its characters, but decided to shove them aside in favor of wacky anime shenanigans and a poorly written mystery.
 
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I like to think that "Persona" is similar to Skullgirls as a title, and should be about people with Personas, and not about the god battles and stuff.

and why are we adding fuel to the flame war that died out? why do we keep coming back to this?
 
Sanoblaze said:
funny how Atlus doesn't seem to give attention to "the best Persona" :PUN:

Napalm Shot M > Silent Scope > b.HK > Silent Scope

Anyway, come on can't we all just kick the shit out of otherworldly things that invade our dimension in harmony?
 
choas deserves to reign in a world where just unsightly opinions run rampant

absolutely disgusting is what it is
 
Won't disagree with you there

But really now the future looks like this

image.jpg
minus P3 Girltagonist of course
Also where's Shinji


Don't like it go make Project P games that remake P3 and P4 with negotiations and crazy dancing and number one men of Japan and such

In the meanwhile we'll enjoy our singing fighters, dancers, bowguns, infinite corn dogs, and chairs with balls and chains
 
Oh boy...

At this point can we just agree to disagree? I've seen this debate way too many times on MegaTen forums and I know if we keep debating it's going to go on for another 10 pages.
 
Ok putting aside the 12th "my favorite x game is superior to your clearly tasteless y game" argument, P4A2 just released another character trailer and it's for Labrys this time.

Again like the others the PV is notably about a brief story mode exposure for x character.

Since Lab isn't a new character for the sequel, I'm gonna assume they will eventually release these kind of PV trailers for the rest of the cast simply to tease their story modes with maybe a couple surprise trailers mixed in.
 
Welp. Looks like Officer Kurosawa's going to be let in on the Shadow Operatives business, now that he's seen Labrys without the kind of parts-covering outfit Aigis has.
 
Someone on my tumblr dash today said they played P3P and P4G, but felt like a person who read Homestuck but skipped straight to the trolls since they didn't play P1 and P2
 
That's what I thought.
Isn't P1 swept under the rug as like either pointless or a dream anyway?
P2 is important I know that.
 
No bitch it's heavily implide the Malevolent Entity is Nyarlathotep, and on top of that, it's also implied PerShona is Nyarlathotep possessing him, which is punctuated by the fact that him with goggles is wearing sunglasses exactly like how Nyarly wore sunglasses in his human form.
 
I'm not trying to argue with you on it, but you should know, none of that is in the main P3 or P4 games.

edit:

and you don't need to call me a bitch about it.
 
Bitch was for emphasis, not an insult.
I'm just saying Persona 2 at least is important now that P4A brought Nyarly back.
 
i mean there's also little connections like how the Kirijo Group is an offshoot of the Nanjo
which at least confirms that they all take place in the same world
(plus there's the Who's Who on the TV in P3, which talks about what's going on with the casts of the previous games)
 
maybe, we have yet to see the full game, so for all we know it's fanservice like the cameos of some of the P2 and P1 characters as adults in P3. maybe both Sho's have a connection not only to Nyarlathotep, but Philemon as well? that'd be pretty cool TBH. Philemon was definitely a character I liked in P1 and P2 for as much as I played them.
 
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