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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

Playing headless honestly feels like a lot of work to me, even if Khaosmuffins says in his tutorial that it's not. Honestly Fortune may be the only character I never bother to learn due to the combination of not fun + not easy
 
Only like 3 people actually play headless. Headless is sad life.

Also headless can be very fun but the effort comes from knowing where your head is and putting it places where you are always at advantage which is tricky.

Edit: She's potentially a really good character when headless just needs much smarter players.
 
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Spencer said:
That's a bold statement.
ok khaosmuffins, guitalex and who else learned headless?

I'm trying to learn headless myself. its not actually a hard thing to learn. the tools are there you just need to use every single one of them. that said she's underdeveloped and every fortune player should try out headless or don't play her at all(play filia).
 
headless has no reversals
gimme gimme gimme the headless
 
Before headless nerfs: Everyone who played fortune played headless because it was superior and more fun.
Now: Kinda no one notable anymore (khaos quit... sorta now he's mostly rusty guitalex no longer plays fortune and taluda is strictly head-on) but there is a little more interest with beta experiments. She's sliiiiiiiiightly more fun than head-on with them albeit weaker.
 
i wouldn't say weaker. both have good points to them.

mike wanted both options to exist. not "well headless is basically head on with better neutral" unless i'm mistaken but i wouldn't call things "weaker"
 
I'm not really sure how to say this but bare with me. A lot of people don't know that some characters have the ability to launch fortune's head back to fortune and behind her to where she has to either wait for cooldown or go back and hit the head and whichever you do kinda kills her momentum. Then there's the issue of being able to push block fortune and the head. Pushblocking the head means fortune also gets pushed back meaning in midscreen both fortune and the head no longer have the opponent in lockdown. So I feel a lot of her pressure can be beat so long as players are smart about it so I'm not sure how I feel about her neutral. (unless you're even smarter and do frame traps with the head or do something crazy like doing cat slide and using the head to make it safe that makes the pressure stay a tiny bit more.)

Adding space controlling assists make it (headless) pretty awesome though. I just think head-on can do sorta the same things headless does but you have to add an assist to do them and I also feel there is less risk to just using an assist with head-on. Sometimes it's like going headless is a punishment depending on if you're playing a smart player that knows headless' weaknesses. I guess headless is supposed to a glass cannon though.

Hopefully I don't get shot or something.
 
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As I've said before, the only people that think Squigly is good are Squigly players. Her horizontal movement is bad, but her vertical movement is amazing. With a punch charge, your opponent can't just push buttons.

As for Eliza, I'm starting to think that she's a footsie monster, but terrible for pressure. If you block anything, just pushblock and mash reversal. She just doesn't have good block strings. You can try and catch people by doing stuff like low short into divekick or calling sekhmet, but it's all yomi at that point.
 
Just NOW getting good Squigly players? What?

Fuzzy/Guitalex/Yaya puhlease.

+LSP is getting there imo, and apparently Europe is doing some silly shenanigans with her but I wouldn't know.

Yall will see whats good with headless Fortune at NEC.

#FreeWinnie
 
alexpi said:
As I've said before, the only people that think Squigly is good are Squigly players. Her horizontal movement is bad, but her vertical movement is amazing. With a punch charge, your opponent can't just push buttons.
So is she bad or not?

My understanding is that she can be AMAZING with the proper set up. otherwise she stands at a Meh level. same thing with band.
 
I think she can be solid. I say that as a PW player, not as a Squigly player.

She has some issues and isn't as rounded as a lot of the cast. She's missing a good reversal and buckles under pressure. But she's a lot like Filia in the sense that if she touches you... you might be dead. Her resets are scary as shit. The difference between her and (not-beta) Filia is that Squig's reset game actually takes quite a bit of work to get going.
 
draughen punch is a solid reversal when charged. Having a charge also makes her pretty hard to block.
 
I really don't see how Valentine isn't considered to be the best character in the game. "Bad without assists" is kind of moot, considering that in about 95% of games both sides have an assist. She builds meter well, doesn't need it, amazing mobility, and can attack from so many different angles. And those hitboxes though...

Yeah her damage is a bit meh, but I think that really isn't TOO huge of a problem in this game, especially when you've got everything she's got going for her.
 
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iPlaySkullgirls said:
I really don't see how Valentine isn't considered to be the best character in the game. "Bad without assists" is kind of moot, considering that in about 95% of games both sides have an assist. She builds meter well, doesn't need it, amazing mobility, and can attack from so many different angles. And those hitboxes though...

Yeah her damage is a bit meh, but I think that really isn't TOO huge of a problem in this game, especially when you've got everything she's got going for her.

If the changes go through "as is", she's hitting for about 8k mid in some circumstances vaulting her from one of the lowest to upper half. She's going to be a solid pick after the beta in my opinion.
 
With the beta changes to her and Peacock, she is definitely the best in the game in my mind.

I like the buffs she got, though, they are pretty fun.

Peacock is still 2nd best to me right now anyway.
 
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Tomo009 said:
With the beta changes to her and Peacock, she is definitely the best in the game in my mind.

I like the buffs she got, though, they are pretty fun.

Peacock is still 2nd best to me right now anyway.
I think I might be slightly biased, as I literally fucking hated sitting in 30 second green vial combos way back when, but I think she already was the strongest even before the beta changes. Like, contesting her air normals is just asking to get hit.

Peacock is a character I don't have much experience against, but I don't think she's all that strong, mostly because of characters that could care less about her zoning game. Once again, it could just be I'm not playing vs good Peacock's, but I usually don't have much trouble getting in on her as Fortune or, tagging her with j.hp sbo as Squigly. Have not played against anything remotely close to a Rushdown Peacock, but I don't really imagine it being too scary.

Speaking of Fortune, I think she is hella slept on. I don't know how people think Filia would place on a tier chart, but I'd definitely put Fortune above her. I really feel like Fortune has the same stupid mixups, same stupid resets, better ground normals, on par air normals (albeit Fortune's air normals are a lot more niche and she can't just flow chart to the same one everytime), and is better at converting stray hits. The only thing Filia's got going over Fortune is she provides better support.
 
I'm stuck on a programming problem so I'm just gonna go ahead and make a random post to take my mind off it for a minute.

Here's my updated tier list after tapering off my SG gameplay over a period of many months, until I stopped playing at all, then spent the past weekend playing a crap-ton of it against random Japanese players on PSN.

Top:
Parasoul
Peacock
Fukua

High:
Filia
Double

Mid:
Eliza
Painwheel
Cerebella
Big Band
Squiggly
Fortune

Low:
Valentine

The outdated SG tier list is shockingly popular in my blog, so I figure I should update it sometime. I should play SG more, but I also have a couple of games on my PS3 backlog that I really should platinum before I buy a PS4.
 
No way Valentine is low tier. Then again, I'm used to Beta Valentine, so there's that, I guess
 
I can't ever get with low tier Valentine. ESPECIALLY the one on beta right now.

Right now I'm in limbo completely because there are so many changes and stuff I'm not sure how things should go, but overall effectiveness I think goes something like this in my mind.

Slightly above high:
Valentine
Peacock
Beowulf (yeah I know)

High:
Double
Fukua
Eliza
Big Band
Filia
Cerebella

Mid:
Fortune
Parasoul

Maybe just slightly below Mid:
Squigly
Painwheel
 
Retail

Fukua
Cerebella
Filia
Peacock
----
Eliza
Parasoul
----
Painwheel
Valentine
Fortune
----
Big Band
Double
Squigly
 
Last edited:
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Big Band and Double are the 2 best support characters in the game.
 
Skarmand said:
LK Bomber isn't LK Bomber anymore.

This tierlist is based off retail actually, no idea whats going on in beta. I can see Double going to where maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Val/Fortune are. Nothing higher. BB is staying where he is haha.
 
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Skarmand said:
LK Bomber isn't LK Bomber anymore.
Bomber isn't a one size fits all assist anymore, but Double still has many really useful assists that can define team shells.

Not long ago I was placing BB low because of his power on point, but his impact on games is massive even if he never ends up on point at all. LP Extend and HP brass are ridiculous.
 
I have had Valentine at low tier ever since SDE. She has one thing really going for her: amazingly good mobility. She's average to slightly above average at some other things and horrendous at others. Having her on a team is a huge liability since every time she is snapped, you essentially lose a character because her assists are all trash. No idea how she is in beta. I guess if her super kept the opponent in the corner or if her ridiculously bad mid-screen combos were improved I would bump her up to mid-tier maybe.

I dunno why a lot of folks here have Val so high. I've spoken to a couple of other players here in Japan about how they think of her, and while some of them have her at mid (mostly because they think no one is low tier in SG) I have yet to meet someone who actually thinks she's "good". Maybe some folks from America should get over here and school us.

Also every person I spoke to told me Squiggly is trash, but I keep winning with her so I guess she's either secretly good, I am secretly godlike or I just have never faced anyone good at SG here in glorious nippon. Or maybe double-snaps are the way of the future and no one else realizes. Literally everything I do in the game is geared towards getting a double-snap victory and I racked up quite a few wins against frankly superior players last weekend.

Broken Loose said:
There is no way Eliza is mid-tier in retail. She's up there. She's really good. She's not retail Fukua, but she's really good.

Might be true. I didn't face that many Eliza players but on paper she seems real good. I destroyed the Eliza players I went up against, though, so I figured I'd drop her in mid to be safe.
 
Squigly is good, but she has bad matchups. This is Skullgirls, no character is ACTUALLY bad.

This argument has gone on many times before, but simply put Valentine's strength is that she can abuse the best assists in the game/convert off them from stupid situations/do so SAFELY/never have to commit to silly things but has all the tools to make hard reads if the player feels like it/has absurd pressure, especially with an assist in the mix.

Really her only "weakness" is defense and she has flatliner/buffed counter super so really she isn't the worst in the cast in that sense. Her defense is pretty much on par with Eliza/Painwheel imo. Not Double bad.
 
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Beta Double has really good D, actually. LK Bomber is a true reversal and she has a variety of ways to make it safe.
 
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Broken Loose said:
Beta Double has really good D, actually. LK Bomber is a true reversal and she has a variety of ways to make it safe.

no she doesn't?
Monster doesn't make it safe and neither does catheads unless you're talking about car into dhc
 
Every char is really good
The only things I don't really feel threatened by are anchor Band (ie not Solo but assistless) and meterless Double, and both of those are quite possibly just cus I rarely meet them

I don't really care about this list crap (I made a post detailing why somewhere in here..), but I'm rather confused by Squigly being (2nd-) worst, care to explain @Tomo009 @keninblack?
Like, there's absolutely no fucking way, but perhaps you have a reason other than "I never fought a good Squigly"..?
 
Squigly has to work too hard in neutral to get anything started and her resets are really mediocre imo from all the Squiglys I've seen you can really figure out most of her stuff in a couple of goes, yes, good ones too.

She loses air to air to the majority of the cast. J.LP and J.LK are good but not amazing.

Her damage is lacking.

Instant SBO shit stopped being something worth relying on ages ago.

I don't know man never found her ALL that amazing, maybe its because I play Parasoul but I definitely don't see how she is anything but bottom 4 considering the stronger options you have in this game.
 
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keninblack said:
Retail

Fukua
Cerebella
Filia
Peacock
----
Eliza
Parasoul
----
Painwheel
Valentine
Fortune
----
Big Band
Double
Squigly
you forgot to pit Sekment on the list, i think he's top 3 imo
 
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agent13 said:
no she doesn't?
Monster doesn't make it safe and neither does catheads unless you're talking about car into dhc
If you can't see how puddle DHC makes nearly anything safe, then you should really consider training mode.
 
keninblack said:
Squigly has to work too hard in neutral to get anything started and her resets are really mediocre imo from all the Squiglys I've seen you can really figure out most of her stuff in a couple of goes, yes, good ones too.

But once she gets a touch, she becomes 90% Filia. She's impossibly difficult to get off of you with dope amazing resets. Plus, she can confirm from pretty insane ranges.

She does struggle in neutral, and she does have some pretty shitty MU... but all she needs is one touch.
 
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