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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

PandaGirlBingo said:
genuine question here does the train stage cause motion sickness for anyone ?

It does for me. I don't think I'll be playing on this stage often :(
 
Cas Chronon said:
Not for me but it does distract a bit. I think we'll get used to it

I'm not a programmer but I guess a "train stage speed" option could be considered to soften up one's motion sickness, like going from "Normal" to "Slow" or "Dead slow" or even "Still" as options (although "still" sounds kinda useless for a train stage unless you want to stare at coal, if not for performance issues). It would just have to change the speed at which the stage cycles between backgrounds and so on but on all of this mike can correct me
 
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@ArgonBern

I think adjusting the "speed" would not account for the train itself but everything else but. I don't know anything about how the stage was programmed but I would imagine if it was built with configurability in mind, it probably would't have things rendering in and out for a clocked period of time since those components would all have a separate period on when to appear and not to appear, like animating different 3D models on the same space......then again I would rather not assume that since I haven't worked with something like this along those lines yet. I'm going to go with the "I don't know anything about this instance and I should be more informed about situations like this since I'm studying it" card
 
Cas Chronon said:
@ArgonBern

I think adjusting the "speed" would not account for the train itself but everything else but. I don't know anything about how the stage was programmed but I would imagine if it was built with configurability in mind, it probably would't have things rendering in and out for a clocked period of time since those components would all have a separate period on when to appear and not to appear, like animating different 3D models on the same space......then again I would rather not assume that since I haven't worked with something like this along those lines yet. I'm going to go with the "I don't know anything about this instance and I should be more informed about situations like this since I'm studying it" card

I have little experience on this too, so it all depends on how the stage works.
 
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The fact that everything is moving on the train stage makes it hard to figure out how high you are once ground disappears.

Other than that, I don't have much issue with it.
 
Is this stage gonna get banned from random too

2 fast for tournament play
 
Clawsome Bombs said:
Is this stage gonna get banned from random too

2 fast for tournament play

I mean, if it were to come up at a tournament and I was afraid of getting dizzy or w/e I would use the play again option and get another stage. Should be fine.
 
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The train stage is an indirect buff to characters with projectiles. Firing from right to left makes projectiles look faster. Left to right makes them look slower. Could possibly throw off someones timing.

that said the Train stage can stay how it is(plus the updates). IF needed taking it out of random would be fine. It's still a visually stunning stage that I enjoy seeing. we got like 12 other stages this one will be ok as is.
 
Not sure if this is intended or not, or maybe i'm doing something wrong, but if an opponent burst a combo and it hits parasoul's set tear it doesn't count as a burst bait even if parasoul didn't get hit herself.
 
Negus Eyoel said:
You list gaining ground and counter calling assists as weak options when that's definitely not the case. You also forget the fact that up backing means putting yourself more into the corner, where the closer you are to there the more likely that you're going to get double snapped and have your assist killed.

Ive already eluded to this in my previous post, but i just wanted to further clarify that i very much disagree with your hypothesis that gaining ground on the double jump pattern is strong.


In the quoted post you say that upbacking moves you further to the corner. And yes, just upbacking does do this. However, upbacking then double jumping forward at apex jump height, results in moving away from the corner. In other words not only does it not move towards the corner, it gains space towards moving YOU towards the corner if you are the one defending against said tactic.

This is easily replicable in training mode. Most characters regular jump distance is around 1.5 squares of grid distance. Now the double jumps differ extrememly on distance gained, but squigly goes the furthest with a distance on her regular non dash/non super/non double jump of 2 grid squares. Her double jump pattern of jump back>double jump forward at apex jump height. Moves forward around 1.5 squares. Most other characters move forward on the double jump pattern around 1 grid square, or 1 and a quarter. Squigky has mad hops.


The point is to illustrate that "walk them into the corner" has no way of actually working unless you hit them or make them block something... Which is no longer walking them into the corner, but actually engaging them.

Walk them into the corner doesnt work against this pattern.

Going on, though you may not have played against this used in such a rote manner, i play against opponents that approach this way FROM FULL SCREEN AWAY. It isnt particularly powerful used that way, but it does serve to illustrate the problem:


This is the best and safest way to move forward in the game right now.

Look at the other options for moving forward:

Dash forward=unsafe to random unblockable ground supers and high/low mixups, and prone to being put into lockdown from an assist call. In other words there are risks associated with this form of moving forward.


Jump forward and dash jump forward=unsafe to airthrows when done semi close. To make this safer and do it outside of airthrow range, the other character has to have ALOT of space to do it with no risk of being airthrown. This means they have to backup first. When they backup you can easily gobble that space and take the safety of the tactic away from them.... Walking them into the corner. If they jump forward and then double jump back, they lose space and so, this is also a pattern that can be walked into the corner.

Special move to move forward=almost all negative on block and therefor cant be spammed. Double isnt spamming hornet bomber to get in and filia isnt using hairballs to move in. Filia does use airballs to move forward though, and in those cases she cant block and is wide open to invincible assists. So special moves equal not being able to block and most times being negative on block.

Superjump forward= can be run under much easier, cant call assists during the jump.


Wait for the opponent to move towards you=giving your opponent the initiative and having to play a purely reactive game or rely on reads to get things done. This is actually a decent way of getting close to the opponent, but it cant be forgotten that this IS NOT actually moving forward.




Those are the only ways to move forward in the game. They all have various weaknesses that are rather easy to exploit when spammed in any fashion, this means that using all of them equally or at least in ways that arent super predictable are the best way to win and be a good player. This forces dynamic play on the offensive spectrum of the game. No one option outweighs another.


And then finally we have the jump backwards>double jump forward pattern:

Needs no spacing to be a threat. Can be done from near point blank range, can be done from fullscreen. Can be "looped" over and over as an approach mechanism at meutral. Jump back, double jump forward, if opponent is close use your AA assist. If they arent, just repeat theattern upon landing until the opponent gets close, then call your assist when they get close. Pf course mixup whther you call the assist or not. And ALWAYS remember that the pattern is call AA assist on the way down, and never stickout a normal if calling an assist, or stick out a disjointed normal on the way down, but dont call an assist.

Follow this flowchart and you have a surprisingly good, extremely unskilled neutral game tactic that is easily spammable and hard if not impossible to completely stop.


Is it beatable? Of course it is. But that isnt the point and never was. The point is that this is an overly good option that got created when preblock got changed, and it can force a very unfun to play against, non dynamic , FOO neutral game strategy.

There is very little reason to keep the tactic in the game. It doesnt add anything to strategy. But it can definitely take options away as far as optimal safe strategies are concerned, at neutral.

The best counters so far are to countercall. Countercalling isnt bad. It is very obvious and boring though. Non dynamic, teaches newbs bad fundamentals, teaches better players to dumb down their games. I can see no BENEFIT of the pattern.


Is there an actual benefit that you can tell me? I ask because i might not be looking at it objectively enough. Ive asked others and no one has had an answer yet.

The closest i could come up with myself is as a challenge to get past. And that is so damned weak that i dismiss it out of hand. Want a challenge... Play better players, in my mind.
 
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Tank said:
Not sure if this is intended or not, or maybe i'm doing something wrong, but if an opponent burst a combo and it hits parasoul's set tear it doesn't count as a burst bait even if parasoul didn't get hit herself.

Bursts triggered by projectiles don't count as a burst bait, and upon bursting you can do all your normal defensive options.
 
The only time the train stage gets annoying are the periods when there's not much in the background and all you see is either a brick wall, or trees moving very quickly. When there's other things in the background that are father out and aren't moving across the screen as quickly, it's fine.
 
Tank said:
that said the Train stage can stay how it is(plus the updates).
OH thank goodness, here I was all anxiously awaiting Tank's final decision so we could figure out the fate of the stage.

Dime_x said:
Ive already eluded to this in my previous post
"alluded", eluded means "avoided".

And I read your whole essay, which I disagree with, but I'm only gonna say one thing.
Dime_x said:
The point is that this is an overly good option that got created when preblock got changed, and it can force a very unfun to play against, non dynamic , FOO neutral game strategy.
You keep saying the bolded bit, and you keep saying "doing it at midrange". NOTHING WAS PUTTING YOU IN PREBLOCK AT MIDRANGE BEFORE THIS, DIME. Stop that. :^)

Okay I lied, two things.
Part of the reason I disagree with the Dime/ClarengeMage allied front is that from what I have seen of you all playing...it's like JP MvC2 vs US MvC2, with you guys being JP. It may be a dominant tactic where you are, but it's only "okay" overall.
 
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Dolfinh said:
So what you're saying is, pick this stage if I play you in tournament? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Smash bros style stage counterpicks in SG? Interesting... I'd counterpick River Side Casino everytime for my NPC which would gives me a morale boost.
 
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You say that now, but I've run into people playing blood Eliza, blood Double, and Q Big Band on Gehenna. It's annoying as fuck.
 
alexpi said:
You say that now, but I've run into people playing blood Eliza, blood Double, and Q Big Band on Gehenna. It's annoying as fuck.
SonicFox5000 said:
Ooooooo yes its timr for some CREEPY GEHENNA HYPE
Was that the reason it was removed from random select? Because it was hard to see certain character color combinations?
 
If it was because of that Nightmare Crest and Final Atrium would also not be there. The explanation was that it was "too spooky".

White palettes in class notes also.
 
I feel like they're overrating the strategy a whole bunch but gosh darn it
I reaaaally like the double jump change lmao!
 
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Dolfinh said:
White double in class notes is godlike

bruh

eWSDAfO.jpg
 
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Mike_Z said:
OH thank goodness, here I was all anxiously awaiting Tank's final decision so we could figure out the fate of the stage.

Glad to be of service. What would you do without me and my decisions :^) ....
everything probably.
 
Genoisawesome said:
Bursts triggered by projectiles don't count as a burst bait, and upon bursting you can do all your normal defensive options.

The tear isn't setting off the burst its just near by and one of my normals sets off the burst. Parasoul doesn't get hit by the burst hitbox but the exploded tear does get hit by the burst. When that happens The blue burst doesn't happen.
 
dekillsage said:
I feel like they're overrating the strategy a whole bunch but gosh darn it
I reaaaally like the double jump change lmao!

What do you like about it? I really don't notice the difference at all.
 
Anime peacock is going to be godlike for the first day because I doubt that her teleport lines will be the same.
 
PandaGirlBingo said:
genuine question here does the train stage cause motion sickness for anyone ?
This is actually a genuine concern for me. I always had the same problem with Big Blue in SSBM. I start feeling woozy when I don't focus VERY hard on the action happening in the foreground. The city part is great for me. The part that is especially problematic for me is the tunnel for some reason.

I can say though that I'm mostly used to it now.
 
mcpeanuts said:
wtf? You play Squigly, what the heck were you doing before this change

Calling my assist before I double jump like I've been doing since day 1.
 
let me be accurate with how i see the change.

I don't notice much with my assist calls with this change. HOWEVER i can airgrab people more or can plainly see an effort of decision making on my opponent's side. there's really not much else to it.
 
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