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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Jason said:
I'd like to remind everybody in the thread that, out of the major assists that see a lot of competitive play in Marvel 2, two of the most powerful of them don't cover super jump height at all, Psyblade, and Sentinel Force. There's also Molecular Shield.

Captain Corridor and Gene Splice were the only ones that were really effective at super jump height.

Captain Corridor and Gene Splice being really effective at super jump height is by no coincidence one of the major reasons that both of them are top assists. When the top tier of the game has Sentinel riverdancing on your head, and Storm doing her best Michael Jackson impression above the top of the screen, you want some shit that forces them to think twice about doing so.

Psyblade is great because in addition to being invincible, it gives the easiest conversion with an otg after. Sentinel Force is good not because it's especially great but because it's a functional assist on an S Tier character, like Val's H Bypass. I can find some pretty good uses for it but it's not outstanding, it's just there to be used. Doom rocks is real good horizontal lockdown, but again most of the time it's better to prevent riverdancing or HOO HOOO HOO HOOO HOOOO in the first place rather than capitalising on Sent & Storm making a mistake and being forced onto the ground.

Disclaimer: I have extremely limited MVC2 experience so I am talking mostly hypotheticals, if someone could verify what I say/blow me up for being wrong that would be good.
 
Since the request section of SH is kill, I'll post it here. Could we please get some sort of random burst option to test burst baits? Like choose a burst or not option and maybe a random burst delay option.

Also it would be nice if the next character on incoming is considered a "reversal" for the reversal recording option so we can test incoming set ups.
 
ashxu said:
Since the request section of SH is kill, I'll post it here. Could we please get some sort of random burst option to test burst baits? Like choose a burst or not option and maybe a random burst delay option.

Also it would be nice if the next character on incoming is considered a "reversal" for the reversal recording option so we can test incoming set ups.

Speaking of training mode options, an option to make the dummy super-jump would be nice, especially if this super jump experiment sticks. I mean dummy record you can use if you want but its not as nice.

Mostly for practicing air to air conversions.
 
Dhoppler said:
I was about to correct you and downplay how a big a deal this was, but then I remembered that you can still drift no matter your air movement after a super jump as long as you cancel with an attack. So, yeah. Shit's nice. The rest of my team is what I was referring to though, I'll be more clear next time.


What's not nice. This new 25% height increase. 10% was perfect. Now everything is wacked for Peacock. Hitting with anything on the way up and comboing after it or air dashing into a throw is a chore rather than a tighter combo/reset. Haven't tested it with anybody else.

Doing comparison tests between the feel between 25% SJ and retail:
My assistless midscreen BnB works just fine. It -seems- like s.hk is sending Peacock and Squigly further and than normal at the end of my combo alot more often than not, for some reason, so Item Drop H1 needs to be used sometimes to get the link from [...s.hk, Item Drop 1, microdash, s.lp c.mp c.hp Bang H Argus]. The delay in general is a little different for every character but it's all still alright. Also got a new Double BnB. That was nice. I'm actually really liking the feel of aerial momentum in Beta over Retail, too. [...s.mk, j.mp j.hk, Crossunder] feels better. Hell, in general crossups and crossunders feel MUCH better with the more vertical spacing I have. Grab resets feel better. Combos feel a bit better. And with that SJ steering/air control mechanic, there's some interesting momentum canceling mixups you can do, especially with Peacock. Fun stuff.
 
I only messed with the 25% Super Jump for a little bit, so here are my quick thoughts...

It feels fine, although I think the 10% SJ is a lot better, mostly because you can still see your opponents head while up there and plan for what to do. I do see the intention with having only an indicator for a brief period, but it doesn't seem needed. And the main reason why, personally, is really the movement feel. Super Jumping backwards then moving forward works well, but why not the same for Super Jumping forward then going backwards? Moving backwards is pretty sluggish at the moment and doesn't move you that far compared to moving forwards.

I can understand this case for regular SJ, since that could lead to people lightly running away and easily punishing those who want to anti-air them after seeing their SJ. However, I feel that Super Jumping forward then moving back to (almost) the same spot you were before could change the meta game in a interesting but not too different way. Example, let's say I'm somewhere around the mid and my opponent is near the corner, I Super Jump forward, think my opponent's gonna anti-air, I move backwards to counter it, but instead he dashes slightly pass me and goes for a low. I think this would work for 25%, it gives both players time to strategize* their defense and offense at those moments. Now if 10% was to return, I don't see my suggestion benefiting it, since it'll be a bit too fast for the defending player to think of anything counter the SJer.

PS: I can't get J.HP to link after J.MP for Big Band. I seriously tried every way I could think of, like pressing J.MP more early or slightly later, but every single one has only resulted in a whiff. If anyone can tell me what I might be doing wrong, let me know.
 
Kongk4 said:
PS: I can't get J.HP to link after J.MP for Big Band. I seriously tried every way I could think of, like pressing J.MP more early or slightly later, but every single one has only resulted in a whiff. If anyone can tell me what I might be doing wrong, let me know.

It doesn't link anymore except like, on Big Band. New midscreen BnB for me is:
[c.LK c.MK s.HP, j.MP j.MK(x2) j.HK, OTG c.LK c.MK, j.LK j.MK(x2) j.HP, Beat Extend L, c.LP(x2) c.MK s.HK, ATrain H, SSJ]
There's some different links around yeah, and as for corner combos, you still have Emergency Break cancels for more ground chains. Just gotta get a little used to the new jump and gravity.
 
Kongk4 said:
PS: I can't get J.HP to link after J.MP for Big Band. I seriously tried every way I could think of, like pressing J.MP more early or slightly later, but every single one has only resulted in a whiff. If anyone can tell me what I might be doing wrong, let me know.
Delay the jump a bit after the launcher. That's at least how I got it to work on the lighter characters.
 
ashxu said:
Since the request section of SH is kill, I'll post it here. Could we please get some sort of random burst option to test burst baits? Like choose a burst or not option and maybe a random burst delay option.

Also it would be nice if the next character on incoming is considered a "reversal" for the reversal recording option so we can test incoming set ups.

you can test incoming reversals by setting what you want the incoming character to do, then set the replay to reversal then snap that character in.
 
ashxu said:
Since the request section of SH is kill, I'll post it here.

While we're requesting features, an endless, wall-less level would be really good for practicing mid screen combos, ala the desert stage in marvel super heroes.



dekillsage said:
From playing it so far. It's kind of hard to not think this way the more I play it, but we still have time mess with it more. Wish I got to play matches with the 10% to compare :(

I'm feeling that way too, I'm going to keep playing but I'm still preferring either retail or 10% so far. Really wish there was an in game toggle to test the various heights.
 
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Grangach said:
While we're requesting features, an endless, wall-less level would be really good for practicing mid screen combos, ala the desert stage in marvel super heroes.
Just put your back against the wall, save the state and then practice?
 
So I noticed a couple of minor things while training in the beta.
First off in training mode the hitstun bar is now a solid colored bar but with some moves like SoID it has little bars along it's length like how it used to be. Not sure if that's important or not but thought it was odd.

Another thing is with Cerecopter assist. While this might apply to other multihit assists, might already be known and for all I know is intentional, I'd still like to bring it up.
If Cerecopter starts to hit during combo stage 1 or 2, it won't add undizzy. But if at anytime during Cerecopter's length should you enter combo stage 3, Cerecopter adds 20 undizzy despite having started during an earlier combo stage. If this is was intentional I wonder if it might be possible to try and have multi hit assists that started in stage 1 or 2 not add undizzy if it's still hitting when you go into stage 3.
 
Here are my thoughts from the different superjump experiments, just seperated them to make it easier. Early tl;dr - basically Sonicfox put it best and I agree with the majority in that I don't like it very much.

150 (or 155? w/e) %

As Sonicfox put it, it felt that the game took a very dramatic turn towards being Vertical based. In particular, running away in neutral via Superjumps became a LOT better, and honestly it didn't feel balanced mostly due characters having wildly different tools in that space which is now even more important. Valentine feels great, since she's always had great air control and mobility, so she can do what she wants by being lame but striking back when she wants to. Watching a Val mirror match in that version of beta was like watching a MVC2 Storm mirror; depending on how much you like lame play, it's probably going to be a boring match. Eliza, in my opinion, also could similarly play that game a little though no double jumps makes it not as effective. And I think that basically applies to most of the other characters with fast air options (Filia, Fortune, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Peacock air backdash if she can control space with jHK and item drop though that's no different from the usual), in that they can try to play the same game that Val could but can't do it nearly as effective as her.

But its not just that Val can execute the best gameplan, but that other characters felt like they had no options in that space. This opinion is a little fast and crazy, but for example, I think BB under that SJ change was actually a bad character. And normally I don't think he's bad! I think in retail he's very solid and has loads of potential and can be very effective. With the new change though, a lot of his tools became useless: A train and BE can't catch people that high when they SJ and harass from a million miles away, and it became a lot easier to dodge his general screen space thanks to all the new vertical space provided to move through. And BB's Air-to-airs, while I don't think are generally awful in retail, didn't feel like they can really catch anyone anymore. I feel like I can SJ and run away all day and BB can do nothing to catch it. Like, 2 of BB's worst MUs before were Valentine and Fukua, but with the new change more characters can play the way those characters did too.

Having said all that, BB superjump jHK being maneuverable is the most hilarious thing and part of me wants it to stay.

110%

It didn't really feel like neutral was any different. Didn't seem like you can dodge much that you couldn't already do, and combos were still a little messed up.

But there was one change that I really noticed. Not everyone is going to agree with me, but I thought Parasoul vs Peacock was actually HARDER with the new superjump. As dhoppler said, its because of the timing; the new superjump doesn't allow para to dodge anything she already couldn't before, but now she comes down slower giving peacock more time to react and do something as she comes down (such as with another item drop). Basically it feels like the new superjump doesn't add anything while making the timing to jump in harder than before. I mean, keep in mind, Solo Parasoul etc don't play that MU ever cause it sucks, but that's how I feel atm.

That's also not to say Parasoul necessarily is worse with the new superjump, cause there are some other cool new things to take advantage of. Just nothing in that MU.

125%? Whatever it is now

I think this is the best middle ground. The height difference is enough to matter and allow for different approaches, but combos feel a lot more normalized and not as weird to perform was they were in 155%.

Pretty much feels the same as the 155% as far as neutral goes; Val still feels like she can dominate and has the best runaway and other characters struggle to keep up. Eliza too feels really solid as well when she tries to superjump runaway and control space with normals. I think bella might also have a hard time catching up with this runaway as well? Though not as bad as BB, since bella can chase down on the ground much better so at least she can mixup on landing much better.

Peacock vs Para still feels worse, nothing changed on that note. All in all, slightly fun to see things messed up but not really fun by itself for me, and definitely still doesn't feel balanced. Not a fan.

Oh, and the Eliza jMK change is barely noticeable. Unless there was some specific corner lockdown pressure, everything that jMK was good for still feels the same, so that's okay.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
So I noticed a couple of minor things while training in the beta.
First off in training mode the hitstun bar is now a solid colored bar but with some moves like SoID it has little bars along it's length like how it used to be. Not sure if that's important or not but thought it was odd.

Another thing is with Cerecopter assist. While this might apply to other multihit assists, might already be known and for all I know is intentional, I'd still like to bring it up.
If Cerecopter starts to hit during combo stage 1 or 2, it won't add undizzy. But if at anytime during Cerecopter's length should you enter combo stage 3, Cerecopter adds 20 undizzy despite having started during an earlier combo stage. If this is was intentional I wonder if it might be possible to try and have multi hit assists that started in stage 1 or 2 not add undizzy if it's still hitting when you go into stage 3.
can't remember where and when I saw it, but it was already brought up by someone before.
Mikez answered himself, saying something like "the only effect it can have is to make combos shorter, so I'm cool with leaving it as is".
 
Well you can bypass the undizzy, it's all in the timing. This comes up a lot in my val bomber vial load combos and oki setups so it's a little annoying but not terrible
dragonos451 said:
can't remember where and when I saw it, but it was already brought up by someone before.
Mikez answered himself, saying something like "the only effect it can have is to make combos shorter, so I'm cool with leaving it as is".
 
Unfortunately for my Peacock combos and the way they are optimized for consistency, damage and being universal against the cast that just isn't possible CK. Woe is me
 
Man is this a boon for maining a character that already needs char specific combos to be optimized? It's a Christmas miracle
 
I don't really understand what you just said there lol
Anyway I don't need it, I just liked the idea of possibly branching off from the LNL assist that is ever so popular. But if my combos lose a bit of damage and such because of a little err... technicality? it's not the end of the world. Besides I could just end up staying with LNL.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
I don't really understand what you just said there lol.
He's making a stab at you or other players because he plays Valentine and she has tons of character specific combos if she wants to be optimized, compared to Peacock who has very high damage universal combos with relatively easy execution.

So everyone else has to adjust to learning specific strings for certain characters but he's already used to it.
So it is a boon for Valentine players.
 
I see thanks for the clarification.
To that I'd like to say that quite a few of the combos I know with her have different timing or simply won't work against the likes of Bella and Double. However my BNB with LNL assist is thankfully universal and optimized for damage, though I've seen no other Peacock do similar combos. Not sure if that correlates to the fact that not many people use Peacock in the first place or that not all her more optimized combos are that easy to execute as some might think. But I guess I digress, this isn't the place to talk about Peacock and how differently her J.hk juggles heavies =p
 
It wasn't really a jab (although now that you mention it :p). All I meant was that my val optimized vial load combos/oki setups/midscreen optimized combos all require careful assist calls due to that added undizzy on entry to stage 3 IPS. I merely meant that val already had to account for that shit. Im pretty sure peacock stuff is hard, I can't do that stuff, or at least dont understand how to yet
 
@Swiftfox-Dash I've been wanting to play you for awhile but never seem to catch you. Maybe we could run some sets and then I could steal your combo and modify it. (I could just do that off an archive, I simply wanna play you).

I'm currently not a fan of 125% while I do like 110%. I admit that's because at 110% I simply need to tighten up execution and then I can super jump above a dp assist. Fraudulence aside, at 125% Peacock gets more time to pick people out of the air, but she has to learn new stuff. Fortune gets to be a complete asshole whether she chooses to launch you or not. Her aerial approaches can vary a bit more with the ability to shift her momentum Streets of Rage 1 style ( or Melty if your not a Sega Genesis fan). Big Band goes over to cry in the corner, specifically the opposite corner of whoever doesn't want to get near him.


Edit:
BTW please ban blaise
 
150% made H axekick impossible to combo into from launcher for sliding knockdown except for against characters with banana shaped hurtboxes (though I never tried to do the double jump thing and it doesn't combo from H Fiber that or it's a tough link and I really suck.) It also felt really awkward but I guess that's how new things always feel.

125ish% is very great to me and doesn't feel too different I really like it at 25%. Still has an SG feel but new approaches might be available. (H axekick for sliding knockdown is usable!)
110% was hardly noticeable.

I also don't really like that characters with ground dominance are now harder to use because it's even harder to contest the air characters in the air but it's still new so I guess I just need to play with it more.

I'm the best at long and well explained opinions. Also the best at giving not asked for opinions.
 
no because it kills air momentum on it's own to clarify it was made character specific at 150% sj height still I never tried double jumping and i'll never know now.

It's always been a thing in retail though. (I even have baits with them)
 
Came back to retail today and OH MY GOD FUCK BETA VAL AND FUKUA

The vertical game is REALLY boring to play against characters that wanna hang out at the top of the screen during neutral, if the point of this was to feel like marvel then great job, it's just as annoying
 
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I wish I had more time with 110%, maybe a 115%? Steering in oki could have been a neat thing without needing a big sj.

Either way, I'm not a big fan of the bigger ones (25% and 55%) it just doesn't feel SG and changes a lot of aspects of the game. And not every character takes proper advantages/disadvantages on higher sumper jumps.
 
Tried out the 25%. My Peacock stuff is either extremely tight or just doesn't work. Working on some newer combos, but the lack of a consistent re-stand hurts. It wouldn't be too bad, if her launcher popped enemies up a bit higher. Didn't really get to try 10%.
 
Is anyone else having trouble getting axekick to combo after j.hp midscreen? I've tried j.lp j.hp axekick j.lk j.hp axekick j.mp j.hp axekick j.mk j.hp axekick and so far nothing works.

I can do another combo (as fortune doesn't really need to jump) but I was curious if anyone else had a similar problem.

I know the restand still works but the final chain of j.mp j.mk j.hp axekick no longer combos midscreen.

AGAIN I can totally do other combos but I got really curious if anyone has this problem in the beta don't shoot me please.

EDIT: It seems to be character specific to characters that have a banana shaped hurtbox in the air. So it'll still work on Val Para Bella? Peacock? Squigly
 
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I don't have that problem, but only because I use L axe kick for ones I know I have to OTG from because I'm terrible at this game.
After some training mode, yeah It doesn't seem to combo.
 
"Hey guys, what do you think of the new super ju-"

dKylm.gif


Shoutouts to Hirokuni for making this gif, just need to share it somewhere else. Follow him on twitter https://twitter.com/Hirokuni_SG?lang=en:PUN::PUN::PUN:
 
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