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The Chainsaw Incident - Another fighting game being crowdfunded

Verdant Brave said:
At least when Lab Zero was pitching Skullgirls to publishers, they had a playable demo, and MikeZ was taking the game in progress to whatever tournaments he was going to so that actual players could play it.

It's way too early for these guys to be making a Kickstarter and ask people for money. I need to see a realized concept at least.
I'm talking Skullgirls even before Mike Z joined the project though. (http://www.siliconera.com/2006/10/12/dreaming-of-making-a-game-spotlight-on-skullgirls/) The programmer who was working on it at the time had no idea how to code a fighting game (according to Zinac anyway), but eventually more experienced game designers joined the project and we have what we have today.

But yeah, I agree that the devs definitely shouldn't have gone to Kickstarter this early and the actual campaign is kind of a shamble. With the strength of the artwork though they could definitely attract good designers to the project (the Tekken guy is a good start), but it's too early to tell how to game will turn out at this stage.
 
because just the "old spirit" wouldn't sell well ("too hard" or "too limited" or "nothing new") and the "new generation" gave birth to things like sf4 and umvc3.

strike a balance or things will not work
 
destruction_adv said:
Why does every fighting game kickstarter say "we want to preserve the spirit of old school fighters, but bring the genre to a new generation.)
Because they're buzzwords that hit all the right notes but don't actually mean anything. That choice in terminology speaks volumes of how the game is actually being made (by marketers and idea guys) along with their usage of gameplay mockup videos (that don't even look like a good fighter, much less like the person playing is any good), and their having roadmapped out an extensive microtransaction system before even having an idea of what characters or moves are going to be in the game.
 
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Merged the two Chainsaw Incident threads and altered the title.

Chrono_Tata said:
But yeah, I agree that the devs definitely shouldn't have gone to Kickstarter this early and the actual campaign is kind of a shamble.
This is something I think 90% of game crowdfunding campaigns need to learn:

1) Don't make a campaign until you've got something solid to show. There are some games that can get away with no demos (Visual Novels / Adventure Games / etc) or if they have a strong enough dev team with a history of quality (Shanate, Mighty No.9), but pretty much everything else needs to be in a workable state.

2) Put some real thought into your reward tiers. The amount of money they get back from each of their current tiers after subtracting the reward and delivery costs is absolute insanity and is going to be a nightmare to sort out the logistics for in the unlikely event they do meet funding.

--------------

EDIT: Oh God. I checked the KS again. It's actually been made worse and more confusing since they adjusted the tiers.
Pledge $25 or more
$25: Digital copy of The Chainsaw Incident with 8 characters + Beta Access + Digital Wallpaper Pack and OST + Michael Jone’s V8 Chainsaw (3.5”)

Pledge $30 or more
$30 No shipping edition: (PC or PS4) Digital copy of The Chainsaw Incident with 8 characters + Beta Access

It costs more for the digital only pledge! That one has no figurine or shipping costs to deal with and it costs more!? Blargharghrhghghhgghtggh
 
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Broken Loose said:
Because they're buzzwords that hit all the right notes but don't actually mean anything. That choice in terminology speaks volumes of how the game is actually being made (by marketers and idea guys) along with their usage of gameplay mockup videos (that don't even look like a good fighter, much less like the person playing is any good), and their having roadmapped out an extensive microtransaction system before even having an idea of what characters or moves are going to be in the game.
I can always trust skullheart to explain my jokes in better ways than I ever could. Though seriously, this IS exactly what I see with this project, and it looks/sounds like it could be really fun that makes it worse IMO.
 
Broken Loose said:
Because they're buzzwords that hit all the right notes but don't actually mean anything. That choice in terminology speaks volumes of how the game is actually being made (by marketers and idea guys) along with their usage of gameplay mockup videos (that don't even look like a good fighter, much less like the person playing is any good), and their having roadmapped out an extensive microtransaction system before even having an idea of what characters or moves are going to be in the game.
This is a very excellent post.
That last part in particular really bugs me. I actually love the idea of being able to bet unlockables against each other. If I ever make a game I'm totally going to try implement a system like that. The microtransaction boosters though...
 
Are you supposed to make the game famous before making a Kickstarter for it?
 
destruction_adv said:
Why does every fighting game kickstarter say "we want to preserve the spirit of old school fighters, but bring the genre to a new generation.)

Well the Yatagarasu campaign specifically stated that they wouldn't be adding "unnecessary features" and true to their word they seem to be handling development in such a way that they're simply doing what they promised (barring a few issues with the prolonged development). Of course at that point they already had a playable game out in the previous version, their team is small and so is their game, and they were only asking for a mere fraction of what other fighting game kickstarters needed.

Seriously, that game received in total less than half of what The Chainsaw Incident is asking for. Yatagarasu looks like the kind of game that can conserve its budget, but still.

(By the way it's a good game if you liked 3S when the new version comes out I recommend it, and I'm not just saying that because I pledged).

WrestlerGuile said:
Are you supposed to make the game famous before making a Kickstarter for it?

This is how Kickstarter works if you aren't already famous and/or don't already have a working game to show off. Not saying it's not kind of scummy, but if they need the funds they are only going to get them if they can get people to believe that they can deliver.

Keep in mind that The Chainsaw Incident is only going to get funded if it reaches its goal of $275,000; which realistically speaking, it won't.
 
They just put up a new update. If you had any doubt before that these people have no idea what they are doing, then this should clear up all of it.

Our system has many features, some will stay some may go. But here is the rough translation of things to come.

In no particular order

• Blow Away Attacks

• Buffering

• Clash\Overheat (using the gas button without clutch causes a stall out)

• Free Canceling and Advanced Canceling

• Block stop

• Block Strings

• Charge Moves (performed by holding the Gas)

• Chip Damage (enhanced when holding Gas)

• Block Cancel

• Command Moves

• Command Grab

• Counter Hit

• Super attacks

• Critical Attacks

• Extermination ( aka destroy\Fatality, can only be done in final round)

• Dash

• Crouching Dash

• Frame Traps

• Juggles

• Bounding

• Ground Roll

• Roll Break (advanced attack to trap ground roll)

• Pretzel Motions

• Pursuit Attack

• Punish

• Quick Recover

• Destructible Stages

• SUMO: (This special attack is used when an opponent has you in the corner, and is using the same combo repeatedly, you can initialize and auto destroy that will send them out of the ring.)

• Short Jumps

• Summons

• Super Canceling

More coming soon, also we are taking input and requests.

JESUS CHRIST THESE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT
 
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When I first heard about this back in December I liked the premise and the art style. However... wow, I don't even have words to summarize how I'm feeling.

Actually, no, I do. In the world of tabletop roleplaying games there's a phrase you sometimes hear, "Fantasy Heartbreaker". Basically, it means when someone gets the idea to do "Dungeons & Dragons, but better". They inevitably fail, but the real heartbreaker is that there's usually one legitimately good idea buried in a bunch of stuff that either stopped being innovative 15 years previous, or just flat out sucks.

I think The Chainsaw Incident is going to be a Fighting Game Heartbreaker.
 
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homer_15.jpg


One of my favorites on that list is "Punish", particularly because in their demo video none of the moves have any recovery.
 
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Cellsai said:
One of my favorites on that list is "Punish", particularly because in their demo video none of the moves have any recovery.
That, and them listing "pretzel motion" like it was somehow a game mechanic, or a good thing.
 
when it come to fighting game kickstarters, I jump on board no matter what. I think its really important to support the indie scene that way. These guys are very responsive on their facebook, and their art is amazing. That being said, they need to team up with an actual game designer, and maybe also a PR manager. Their explanation of the systems is terrible, although they go into a little detail on the facebook page.
 
Grangach said:
when it come to fighting game kickstarters, I jump on board no matter what. I think its really important to support the indie scene that way.
No no NO. It absolutely is not important OR beneficial to do that.

Arguably one of the reasons that killed the fighting game genre in the first place was a flood of sub par, badly thought out fighters on the market. Blindly supporting a fighting game just because it's a fighting game and not because it looks like a good fighting game isn't doing much but creating useless shovel ware. If I posted a Kickstarter of a fighting game that was just going to consist of 6 different colored squares and the only combat involved whoever pushed the attack button first (first $10,000 stretch goal is a bonus mode where the winner is whoever pushes attack last) I would be terribly disappointed to see anyone support it.

Well, I'd be disappointed after the cruise I took with all my KS money anyway.

If you think the game looks good, then fine, by all means go ahead and support them! However, a statement like "They need to team up with a game designer" should be screaming huge, blaring alarm sirens at you.
 
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They're going to have dashing? 10/10 would buy.


But no.
 
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They listed the Pretzel motion as a gameplay feature...
 
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The cost break down:
In order to give copies of the game to backers, they have to buy these copies from steam and sony with their crowd funding money? For 1/3 of the total amount they raise? And apparently there's no kickstarter fee?
They're using the extremely expensive Unreal engine, which is designed for first person shooters, instead of the much more versatile and relatively cheap Unity.
How much does it cost to make a fighting game?
This is a really hard answer, but on average from our experience no less than 4 million USD. Now we are aiming to do it for as low as possible, but we can't be unrealistic.
Um...
 
upload_2014-5-17_10-11-54.png

Goin' SG style?
 

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MysteriousJ said:
They're using the extremely expensive Unreal engine, which is designed for first person shooters
To be fair here, I have a friend who teaches game design at a college in New Hampshire and used to work for Raven Software. He's taught his classes using Unreal for the past several years, and it can do a LOT more then first person shooters. That's just what its most well known for.
 
The game looks fun.
Also guys you have to remember. They are 3d fighting game creators, and the are just now going onto a 2d style of game. "Pretzel" motions and other stuff they are talking about is stuff we recognize, but things they are just getting into. But they appear to know what they are talking about. I wouldnt bash the game immediately. This community has no right to bash anything! remember 2006 SG?
 
I think it's pretty safe to say that this project will not be receiving the funding they're requesting, which is enough for me to renew faith in the whole idea of crowdfunding games.

Seriously, this entire campaign has very little to show for anything and was just poorly-conceived all around.
 
SonicFox5000 said:
But they appear to know what they are talking about.
Please show me what gave you that impression, I'm curious.

Re: 2006 SG - The way that game became the game SG is today was by replacing more than 4/5 of the development team, including everyone who made any gameplay decisions. Which was done well before asking for any money from anyone. In fact, after that point we worked for two years before even beginning to THINK about asking for money or signing the game. If you are in any way able to compare 2006 SG to this game, I advise you to remember that.

[edit] From their latest update
SUMO: (This special attack is used when an opponent has you in the corner, and is using the same combo repeatedly, you can initialize and auto destroy that will send them out of the ring.)
There is LITERALLY NO WAY to detect that series of events that players can't abuse either to 1) as attacker be able to continue the pressure forever without the game noticing or 2) as the defender to get a ring-out when they "shouldn't" be able to. As written, this is a 100% impossible thing to promise. This sentiment brought to you by the person who created the Skullgirls IPS.
 
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And to think I was considering backing this at some point...
 
Man, I love the art style. Shame it looks like it'd be pure shit if it even managed to get funded.
 
There's not a whole lot I can say at this point that hasn't already been said a million times before, but as one thing that I haven't seen brought up,
does anyone think the stage looks way too noisy?

Like, maybe it's just me, but with all this fast animation and clutter in the foreground and background and littered around the stage and on the HUD, I can't naturally look at the fighters.
Like it's seriously super distracting, and I feel like I can generally deal with chaotic backgrounds, I've never had a problem with Final Destination or Rooftops Assault, but there's something about how simple the characters and their animations are compared to how quick and detailed the stage animations are…

I dunno, maybe it's just me, does anyone else feel this?

Also the meters could be a lot more obvious.
Like watching the video, seeing the health out of the corner of my eye while paying attention to the action, I can never tell approximately how much health either character has, and the deaths seem very much out of nowhere because of it.
And that saying nothing about the lightly glowing super meter that's only lighter than the bar that it's on, or the Gas meter which is just,
based on very minute differences in positions?
I didn't even notice the gas meter the first time I watched it, I thought it was just part of the stage.
 
Have they even properly articulated what the Gas meter is used for? Poor meter design; it doesn't show you how full the meter is relative to how full it is at 100%. As it is I can't imagine the meter would convey information particularly well.

There's even an attack button called "Gas". This is already confusing.
 
TheMightyBox said:
There's not a whole lot I can say at this point that hasn't already been said a million times before, but as one thing that I haven't seen brought up,
does anyone think the stage looks way too noisy?
I think the stages being too noisy will be the least of their problems if they are really planning to make their stages look like this.

b8128bd3c020c5957f7388b1d5343548_large.png


Notice how the only sources of lighting on the characters are coming from their attacks. -.-

They keep defending their decisions when someone point out something by saying that "it's just a proof of concept and we're taking suggestions", but the fact that there was no one who could check for the errors in the first place, and that it's up to other people to point this stuff out...
 
They're bringing back pretzel motions? Like Geese Howard pretzel motions? How is that a good idea?
 
Chrono_Tata said:
I think the stages being too noisy will be the least of their problems if they are really planning to make their stages look like this.

b8128bd3c020c5957f7388b1d5343548_large.png


Notice how the only sources of lighting on the characters are coming from their attacks. -.-

They keep defending their decisions when someone point out something by saying that "it's just a proof of concept and we're taking suggestions", but the fact that there was no one who could check for the errors in the first place, and that it's up to other people to point this stuff out...

Jesus.
I'm hoping that fish is an attack, otherwise it's even worse than the fire.
And I mean, I feel like there's a right way to do dark, not well lit stages.
Empty Cathedral and, again, Rooftops Assault comes to mind immediately.
As do every night variations from UMvC3.
The backalley stage from SF4.

The point is, stylistically it's cool but is going to be terrible trying to play on that thing.
 
SonicFox5000 said:
The game looks fun.
That's not the actual game. It's a mockup video and it still looks like shit. They were lying about it being pre-alpha footage.

Also, what about it looked fun? Did you make the same claim about Skullgirls 2006? What about the microtransactions, do those look fun?


edit: I can't fucking believe somebody could unironically claim these people "look like they know what they're doing" when the ways they attempted to reach out to the FGC were by (A) getting Maximillian to vouch for them and (B) by copy/pasting a bunch of random fighting game terms meaninglessly.
 
I think the game's visual challenges extend even further back than just the BG's and effects. Honestly, I was already a bit turned off by the game once they started showing off their full character roster a couple weeks ago.
053df8a6855f607c47888e1802db7acd_large.jpg
While there are some cool designs, you can't help but notice how almost all of the characters have the exact same bulky, hunched over body shape. With all of those blocky silhouettes, plus the crazy lighting effects, the combat's going to be pretty hard to follow. Top level animation could help here, but they might already be compromising themselves in that department.

It's just too bad that aesthetics are really the least of this game's challenges right now. I think the concept could find its place in the current line up of fighting games, but it just needs a lot more refinement at this point.

Hey, y'know, maybe these guys should find the Air Dash Online people and fuse their teams together. Their challenges seem inverted from each other, so maybe together they could come up with something pretty cool.
 
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