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Them's Fightin' Herds

I'm more disappointed we're not getting anymore Lore stuff until AFTER the crowdfund ends

I would pick Oleander but we lready know the gist of her back story, so Velvet it is
 
Huh? The vote ends when they reach the 265k milestone, not when the crowdfund ends. Once they hit the milestone, they'll put up the lore of whoever the character with the most votes has.
 
oh, i'm stupid. thought 265 was the goal for a second
 
So apparently we still have to hold up/down to tech in the air/on the ground

fuck
 
whut?

wut.jpg
 
in the recent stream they had (earlier tonight), they said they're keeping their recovery/tech system that was in place in fighting is magic, which was to hold up in the air or down on the ground. no button press needed, but it's also unintuitive imo
 
so wait how do I get to choose which direction I want to tech in? or is it just back all the time? cause if tech-ing is just doing a back tech then forget it.
 
So here's how it worked in TE at least:

In the air you can hold up to tech in place, or hold up-left/up-right to air tech in those respective directions.
On the ground you hold down to tech in place. If, however, the frame you hit the ground you hold down-left/down-right and hit D, you tech-rolled in that direction.

I actually liked the air tech system that was there. The "hit D to ground tech" option is something that needs a BUNCH of work. I don't know how Mane6 did it in FiM, since the only time people could tech roll publicly was the Canterlot Gardens tournament, and I don't know first hand how tech rolling worked there.

EDIT: At least for EVO build teching was neutral only... need to review the Canterlot Gardens tapes to see how teching worked there... but since everything is subject to change I don't know why I'm putting in the work to look these things up...
 
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Currently, the way teching works is if you want to tech on the ground, you would hold down plus whatever direction you'd like to tech. So if you want to roll forward or back, you'd hold down-forward or down-back (1 or 3 respectively for those of you using anime game notation). Holding straight down will make you tech in place.

If you'd like to tech in the air, it works the same, but with holding up rather than down. So teching forward or backward in the air is up-forward or up-back (7 or 9) and teching in place in the air is done by holding up.

So while you have to be teching properly depending on if you want to tech on the ground or in the air, forward and back techs for either are simple diagonals. You do not need to press a button to tech, just holding a direction mid-combo will allow you to tech on the first available frame.

Also, side note, tech rolling on the ground is currently throwable, but is hit invulnerable.

Hopes that clears things up!
 
Oreo said:
Currently, the way teching works is if you want to tech on the ground, you would hold down plus whatever direction you'd like to tech
THANK YOU
Oreo said:
Also, side note, tech rolling on the ground is currently throwable, but is hit invulnerable.
So tech-rolling forward is basically CVS2 rolling? Cool!
 
Some people want to assume the worst, just waiting for Mane 6 to fuck up on something so Mike can swoop in and scold them for not following Da Rules of Game Design or something.
 
Not to mention counter intuitive for fighting game newcomers/casuals who like mashing buttons. You randomly mash and get a tech with button techs. The way they're doing it probably results in more beginners being stuck into combos they could have teched.
But yeah, I agree it's kind of an obnoxious way of doing things.

Oh yeah, and since we're talking about stuff in the stream yesterday, extending Oleander's launcher hitbox that much seems like a pretty sketchy solution to things. Have you guys considered putting a vacuum effect on her C hit? Or just let her whiff at long range if she has alternatives to continue a combo while approaching to get a launcher later?
It would be a VERY large and tall disjointed hitbox the way you showed it last night.

Edit: I mean, seriously
8f20b4376b.jpg

Also: why does the book have a hurtbox?
 
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Why not just have it be hold forward or back to tech in that direction? Why include the up or down input as well?
 
Lex said:
Why not just have it be hold forward or back to tech in that direction? Why include the up or down input as well?
That's kind of a sketchy solution because it makes it so you'll always tech back at the earliest possible frame when you're just trying to block. A button input of some sort is important to make sure teching is something you did on purpose.
And while typing that I realized that down back as the ground back tech button leaves you more vulnerable to overhead or throw resets, which might be a design issue.
 
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Ryin said:
8f20b4376b.jpg

Also: why does the book have a hurtbox?
I was thinking about that too. That's like, Napalm Pillar levels of crazy hitboxes but that move is meant to be an invul antiair. Not shure how I feel about a combo starter like this having such a huge hitbox

also plenty of other moves have hurtboxes on weird things, probably for balance reasons. I would also argue center of mass (blue box) but i have no idea how they really work so I don't know. I think lessening the top hitboes would be a good percaution unless this move is MEANT to be an antiair on its own. Even if the animation would end up being too tall, again, many moves have hitboxes that don't match the animation (like Eliza's jHP which doesn't actually hit far behind her and Squigly's cHP whose hitboxes are like half the siz of the flames)

and even then, thy said they can fix the animations later on
 
Adwins said:
also plenty of other moves have hurtboxes on weird things, probably for balance reasons. I would also argue center of mass (blue box) but i have no idea how they really work so I don't know. I think lessening the top hitboes would be a good percaution unless this move is MEANT to be an antiair on its own. Even if the animation would end up being too tall, again, many moves have hitboxes that don't match the animation (like Eliza's jHP which doesn't actually hit far behind her and Squigly's cHP whose hitboxes are like half the siz of the flames)

and even then, thy said they can fix the animations later on
Yeah, I get the hurtboxes on weird things thing but my issue with the book having one is the fact it's more like a tool. A living tool like Vice Versa but still functionally a tool. If she has hurtboxes on the book in all of her things, it makes her grabbable contact blue box (what is right term for that thing?) strangely far away from where people will be hitting her. And if it's just in that attack: why would that one attack have a vulnerable book?

Also about the art part. Regardless of art, look at the size of that thing! It's not a Napalm Pillar normal. It's a Napalm Pillar assist normal! That move has an animation so huge I'd expect its hitbox to be actually slightly smaller than shown in the art
 
Ryin said:
it makes her grabbable contact blue box (what is right term for that thing?)
Just quickly, collision box is the term you're looking for.
 
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Are we really discussing hitboxes and their impact for a game that the vast, vast majority of us have never even played? That by all accounts might not actually get funding? We will bitch about anything, won't we...

@fenster

Is teching ever really fun? This way seems just as whatever as the mash or hold button methods.

@Ryin

Mashing to tech is a beginner trap as well. Cannot count the number of times I was caught in an air combo in Melty because I kept hammering buttons out of frustration.
 
Ryin said:
That's kind of a sketchy solution because it makes it so you'll always tech back at the earliest possible frame when you're just trying to block. A button input of some sort is important to make sure teching is something you did on purpose.
And while typing that I realized that down back as the ground back tech button leaves you more vulnerable to overhead or throw resets, which might be a design issue.
Why would you always hold back when being comboed in the air? If you tech in the air it will change your position depending on which way you tech so unless the opponent predicts which way you are going to tech they can't continue pressure. And for ground techs, you have plenty of time to react to with the direction you want to tech so it still isn't a problem and ground teching is hit invulnerable. Asking for an up or down as well as the direction just seems like an unnecessary complication unless you are going to be in a position where you have the option of teching in the air or on the ground at the same time (unless the devs have a reason for it that I just haven't realised, which is why I asked).
 
Ryin said:
Oh yeah, and since we're talking about stuff in the stream yesterday, extending Oleander's launcher hitbox that much seems like a pretty sketchy solution to things. Have you guys considered putting a vacuum effect on her C hit?

Well, I was pretty sure that it was just a demontration to the stream about how hitbox editing and their process for it works. Keep in mind there's a bunch of people in the streams who don't really play/know fighting games, and I thought this example was a simple and basic way of showing things off, which was neat. It's not like they won't be able to change things later since keep in mind they still haven't even been funded so there is still a lot of work to do on the game.

Spencer said:
Is teching ever really fun? This way seems just as whatever as the mash or hold button methods.

Let me put it another way, it is actively unfun to be put in situations where it's ambiguous which way you have to tech (up or down) and to get combo'd on because of something basic like your defense mechanic has an unnecessarily mixed input when it doesn't add anything. And this is coming from a Skullgirls player who is perfectly fine with the idea of resets, paying attention in combos, getting mixed up in your pushblock, etc.

Button teching isn't "fun" specifically; it's really just more neutral. But directional teching is just frustrating for no real reason or benefit cause its not even super intuitive (or, as said, fun at all).

Spencer said:
Mashing to tech is a beginner trap as well. Cannot count the number of times I was caught in an air combo in Melty because I kept hammering buttons out of frustration.

I'm okay with this, it's not necessarily that a beginner trap exists that's bothersome. It's just that the system itself feels even more silly, still acts as a beginner trap, but is a frustration tool even to higher level players. I haven't seen a single person who's said that they liked directional teching like that, or at the very least majority of people who I've seen when given the choice would prefer button teching/marvel 3 teching.
 
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This conversation is bringing me back to the days when I was first trying EVO build. Basically, whenever I was in a combo and wasn't familiar with when I was going to be hit on the ground or in the air, I would literally mash up/down/up/down/up/down... on the stick to get a tech in any way I could. Come to think of it, that really wasn't fun and I didn't feel there was a good point in having teching be that way. I would prefer a button (two attack buttons?) tech that lets me tech neutral, forward, or backwards that has the same input whether I'm in the air or on the ground.
 
I upgraded from Reindeer Viking to Cattlekind Pioneer. @Oreo, might this open up a Reindeer Viking tier for someone else?
 
SpaceCadetKeon said:
I upgraded from Reindeer Viking to Cattlekind Pioneer. @Oreo, might this open up a Reindeer Viking tier for someone else?

Yes, but it's complicated and we manually have to re-enable it in some cases.
 
About teching:
If teching must be a manual input, I personally advocate having both pressing and holding down any button be valid tech inputs, with directions influencing the tech direction if you need that.
Why?
- Requiring diagonals to tech is not very intuitive, and is hard to explain. If UF techs, why doesn't just F, or DF? Why are those directions unused?
- Adding in F/B to make it more intuitive means that, as pointed out by someone else, you can't then choose to not try to tech and just block.
- Requiring a button to tech means most people will find it, since most people mash. Very few people hold UF or UB while being hit.
- In GG (pre-Xrd, although I don't think they added hold in Xrd either) you must press a button to tech, which means you miss a lot of small tech windows. You can argue this is a design choice, but I can argue it's a bad one. Holding a button - as Arc has done in other games! - means you can choose to NOT tech, which is important, as well as not missing any 1f tech windows.

Also, I doubt I'd yell at Mane6 for things. Their designers know what they are doing, or we wouldn't have given them the engine in the first place.
When I asked about what prevents standing infinites I was legit impressed by the answer. :^)
 
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Some Person said:
In case y'all needed any further reason to back this game, tebagging rapidly lets you do this:

kJroK.gif

kJrEh.gif

Please go back this game now, if you haven't.
Kinda reminds me of "turning" back and forth in FFXIII in the sense that the animators purposely made it look less silly.
 
Some Person said:
In case y'all needed any further reason to back this game, tebagging rapidly lets you do this:

kJroK.gif

kJrEh.gif

Please go back this game now, if you haven't.
I support more games that have teavogueing.
 
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At this point, all character lores have been paid for before the team could finish Velvet's lore. Also, all high-roller tiers of $1500 and above have sold out. That means 6 people (or groups) have dropped 5K on this game.
 
erkicman said:
At this point, all character lores have been paid for before the team could finish Velvet's lore. Also, all high-roller tiers of $1500 and above have sold out. That means 6 people (or groups) have dropped 5K on this game.
I think we're gonna make it
 
mcpeanuts said:
I think we're gonna make it

I'm cautiously optimistic. We're going into the final stretch at an impressive amount. That said, there is a long way to go.
 
North888 said:
We're doing all we can. There's still tons of time guys. In the meantime, we should get all the voices out we can. I honestly haven't played as much of the prototype as I could have, but I'm still going out of my way to constantly bring the game up. Hopefully I'll be able to get some YT I talk to on a consistent basis to throw their hands in with some help or money...

Probably you posted on the wrong topic, but I guess that the enthusiasm is always appreciated.
 
Yeah I got excited when he mentioned a prototype...
 
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