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Valentine Combo Thread

Yea ideally you want to pick single hit moves before the 15 hit threshold where max scaling hits. Once that happens all that matters is total damage of the move. Ideally you would want to be doing as little j.mp and j.hk and as many j.hp as possible. Of course this has changed because of the anti-loop undizzy change, but the principle is the same. The value of using so many j.hk is because you don't need to dash jump because the move doesn't have extreme launch properties like j.hp.
 
Camail said:
Yea ideally you want to pick single hit moves before the 15 hit threshold where max scaling hits. Once that happens all that matters is total damage of the move. Ideally you would want to be doing as little j.mp and j.hk and as many j.hp as possible. Of course this has changed because of the anti-loop undizzy change, but the principle is the same. The value of using so many j.hk is because you don't need to dash jump because the move doesn't have extreme launch properties like j.hp.
I'll have to test it again, but I just remember something not working out when I used a 2nd j.hp. Initially I didn't want to touch j.hk, but did for some reason I forget. It had something to do with damage but I forget at which point if it wasn't the end of that air chain. Might have had to do with just combing after. I mean if j.hp, j.hk, ADC j.mp, j.hp works and you can pick it back up & do the same thing (light characters no vial combo) & pass 7k then by all means lemme know, but idk I had a hard time in that area. Just surprised what I came up with even got close to 7k period.
 
j.hk hits a frame faster so it's easier to not whiff after the j.hp, j.hk, ADC j.mp(x2), and at that point in damage scaling, the two hits of j.hk > j.hp.

Val's damage output becomes doo doo by the time she gets 10 hits. After the 10th hit, you're probably around the rejump j.lp stage, where the next j.hp is gonna be the 13th or 14th hit and is scaled to shit. Best just use the j.hk.


On another note, Val's tag in sucks and is totally unsafe. So here's a tag-in combo starting with Big Band. The wall bounce -> tag concept should probably apply with Parasoul's s.hk too.
 
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Technically damage scaling caps at the 15th hit so optimally j.ho would still be pretty convincingly the best option, but in all honesty the combo isn't far off being optimized and you can reset with a grab after any j.hk if you ad after the first hit so its nice. It's certainly the best non-pulsr option we are gonna get for solo val combos. I'll try and update the op with the combo and an editted description some time later today when I have a free moment at my home computer, doing it on a phone is too much of a hassle. I'll also record the really simple stuff like the 5k combo and stuff like that so we have a range for people to look at.

The next step is CH combos, I see two relevant types at the moment. One's starting with j.hp and j.mp. Honestly j.mp ch combos should probably be priority because you will usually only be getting ambiguous cross up hits with j.hp that hit because someone fails to block and not because they pressed a button. Meanwhile j.mp stuffs a lot and is hit confirmable as a CH really easily. Both will be good though.

Oh and one more thing, we need IPS 3 combos that we can do after a reset that puts them at full undizzy really early. This starts to get into reset discussion territory but it's still mostly about maximizing damage potential so it belongs mostly in the combos thread.
 
Choose Goose said:
I approve of the gratuitous use of j.HK
This combo has 6 j.HKs. You're welcome :P

Note: While it may not necessarily have practical applications, it just may come in handy to someone. Who knows?

 
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OP update; all y'all who are scrubs, go look at it and learn a god damned combo.

I'm looking at you.
 
Camail said:
OP update; all y'all who are scrubs, go look at it and learn a god damned combo.

I'm looking at you.
Heyy thanks bro, I appreciate it :)

So i've been fooling around with val (not in that way unfortunately) & i've found that starting the vial combo with j.lp instead of j.lk makes things SOOOOOOO MUCH EASIER. I mean you end at the perfect position close to the ground, the air dash cancel is stress freee.....*sigh* but the new issue is what the eff to do on the next jump chain since we can't use j.lp anymore, getting the vial off (in the air preferably), and then continuing on the ground. The start is SOLID and there's no way it can be dropped honestly unless you have like 4 seconds worth of lag so i feel there's a lot of potential...but Idk where to start -_- dammit Val!
 
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You know that the only answer is dash jump j.mk but you refuse to admit it. There really isn't anything to gain in making this combo any easier, it's as easy as it's gonna get.
 
Camail said:
You know that the only answer is dash jump j.mk but you refuse to admit it. There really isn't anything to gain in making this combo any easier, it's as easy as it's gonna get.
Lol well to tell you the truth I put that out of my head a while ago, but I played with it more after posting this and I found a prompt j.mk > delay > j.hk was nice, but vial throw after was taking some time to get down. But yeah I think you're right, it's as good as it can get :/

But I guess good news is timing on the j.lp doesn't have to be as right as I thought. If. It's off, then just drag out the j.mp as long as you can in a way that j.hk will still hit twice, then throw the vial. You should be closer to the ground than the opponent in time so you can run up & at least hit s.lp~s.lp (instead of 3x) then s.mp~s.mp. Only difference is at this part is you do s.mp fast so you can pull them in, then continue normally. It'll cut it down to about 7.25k if you do the sloppy version, but still, it's something to show for it. Most likely 7-7.1 if you end with M Bypass > super for corner positioning.

So yeah, the universal vial-less bnb I think I have down pretty well & I'm finding it's fairly flexible. Even the vial bnb on lights is becoming a lot easier. If you guys have any other ideas lemme know :D
 
Nuuance said:
If you guys have any other ideas lemme know :D

I've been doing qcf+assist for the input of vial toss with LK bomber. Adds some damage, gives hella time for s.LP > etc, and makes feel like a pro.
 
For the heavies, leave the combos as is.
Nuuance said:
If you guys have any other ideas lemme know :D
For the lights, delay your first airchain so that only the second j.HK hit connects, and only do one hit of j.MP after ADC. You'll still be in position for rejump chain > vial.
 
RetroStation said:
For the heavies, leave the combos as is.

For the lights, delay your first airchain so that only the second j.HK hit connects, and only do one hit of j.MP after ADC. You'll still be in position for rejump chain > vial.
Hmmm I'll play with that
 
The timing for the first chain is tricky with the second j.HK hit, but I find it more consistent than ADC as long as possible. Damage loss is minimal, and I think you can do 3 hits of j.MP in the rejump chain and still have enough time to cancel into Vial after j.HK.
 
RetroStation said:
The timing for the first chain is tricky with the second j.HK hit, but I find it more consistent than ADC as long as possible. Damage loss is minimal, and I think you can do 3 hits of j.MP in the rejump chain and still have enough time to cancel into Vial after j.HK.
I tried it and it just seems to inconsistent for me & I've found a way to get it even with imperfect timing. But thanks for the tip :)
 
Nuuance said:
I tried it and it just seems to inconsistent for me & I've found a way to get it even with imperfect timing. But thanks for the tip :)
SHARE.
 
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Silly Valentine/Bella 4 Meter TOD
 
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yea so I am going around the forums trying to find the perfect person to compliment my Parasoul. Still can't really make up my mind as to who. I have been really considering Valentine can anyone tell me her current bnb's preferably universal and direct me to any up to date val guide that may be helpful
 
Para/Val is an interesting team that I think you would have fun with.

The original post has a lot of the information you are seeking. Read that.

Use Nuuance's Val guide and listen to Camail. (Nuuance made a Val guide, right?)
 
From what I recall, Nuuance hasn't made a Val character guide, but the third post on this page by Nuuance shows optimized combos that don't require overly complicated inputs or timing.
Val doesn't have universal combos, but the concepts behind her combos are essentially universal.

EDIT: the third post on page 6
 
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Val should be on point in most situations, I'm one of the few comfortable with throwing her back to anchor.

It's awkward having her come out with no assist, raw tagging to her is awkward, and using her assists with someone else on point can be awkward.

However, I like Val H Bypass for both point Parasoul and point Cerebella.
 
I might write something up about how bad HK bypass is as an assist a bit later tonight, so look gorward to that. I honestly think her best assist is cr.mk; it has lockdown elements and is a low, if you call it then super jump it will probaby catch them, and its a great frametrap on its own. That being said, I don't think there is any real synergy with point parasoul and anchor valentine. Especially because anchor valentine as a really hard time.
 
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Camail said:
I might write something up about how bad HK bypass is as an assist a bit later tonight, so look forward to that. I honestly think her best assist is cr.mk; it has lockdown elements and is a low, if you call it then super jump it will probaby catch them, and its a great frametrap on its own. That being said, I don't think there is any real synergy with point parasoul and anchor valentine. Especially because anchor valentine as a really hard time.

I just don't want to discourage experimentation. I enjoy seeing what people come up with using assists like H Bypass.

Though if you do write it up, tag Cynical since he uses it. I want to see his response to your response.
 
H Bypass isn't an assist you use for neutral simply put. You just don't. Some people like me don't mind trading neutral (which I probably shouldn't with squigs) for easy/big damage. c.mk is what you use to catch people, then reset after. And of course you have some assists which are great for neutral AND combos. DPs typically fit that role :)

Either way...Val isn't a great teammate for assists :/ hardly at all, but she shines on point so incredibly well though. With napalm pillar, picking up assist OTGs will be painfully easy I'll tell you.
Fedora_Ninja said:
From what I recall, Nuuance hasn't made a Val character guide, but the third post on this page by Nuuance shows optimized combos that don't require overly complicated inputs or timing.
Val doesn't have universal combos, but the concepts behind her combos are essentially universal.
and yeah what Fedora said, there isn't really any great Val combos that are TRULY universal, but I did the best I could do & made 2 sets of universal combos, which simplifies things greatly: 1 vial/non-vial for light characters, 1 vial/non-vial for heavies. With the combos I made you'll be happy to fight heavies because the combos are SUPER EASY. Just dial everything in. On lights though, you'll need to delay a couple moves sometimes, but if you follow my visual cues I included, it'll be super easy. The only real combo I'm working on getting 100% is the vial combo on light characters.

P.S. If you start my combos with just c.hp, damage will go through the roof. 7.2k universal bnb no vial I believe at the very least. Not even talking counter hit yet, so if you can do it after a baited super or something...start w/c.hp!

P.S. Oh and no I don't have a guide...although I want to do one but don't think in qualified in the least. Squigly yes, but that's slowly in the works.
 
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H Savage Bypass assist isn't so bad for Cerebella since it leads to a meterless combo extension after Diamond Drop and Diamond Dynamo. Also when used sparringly and correctly, it's a full screen 1275 damage assist that can catch the opponent off guard and pulls the opponent closer to you. I've caught some people with it when they saw my slow ass Bella try and jump at them. Jokes on them cuz they don't see the ninja at the bottom of the screen charging full speed and I just landed in titan knuckle range. Just make sure you can cover Val if the assist is blocked.

With Parasoul, H savage bypass can be a decent assist for when setting up the lame game. If they get caught by the assist, theoretically Parasoul could score a combo depending on distance. If blocked and on the verge of being punished, Napalm shot, detonate, bikes and sniper shot can all cover Val.

Or you could go the Nekro Surge (a Val/Para player) path and use Anesthesia (Val's regular grab) as an assist. It's hard to see coming when Parasoul is rushing you down and you're worried about being caught by a crossup or an overhead.

All things considering Val isn't a good assist character, there is no "one true assist" for her. It's all dependent on the player's playstyle and ability to incorporate specific assists into his/her game and make it work.
 
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Her assists are as situational as she is.
 
Choose Goose said:
I've been doing qcf+assist for the input of vial toss with LK bomber. Adds some damage, gives hella time for s.LP > etc, and makes feel like a pro.

This is actually really good carry too, even with LK Bomber instead of MK. Outside of the obscene number of j.HKs you get in a combo, it's the number one thing I want to steal for my Valentine.
 
IknowReal said:
yea so I am going around the forums trying to find the perfect person to compliment my Parasoul. Still can't really make up my mind as to who. I have been really considering Valentine can anyone tell me her current bnb's preferably universal and direct me to any up to date val guide that may be helpful

PW/Parasoul, Parasoul/PW, or Parasoul/Double imo. Fortune's never bad, but doesn't give you extra DHC safety to go full ham with Parasoul. Val/Parasoul can work, but I don't think it plays to fix Parasoul's problems or enable her strengths so much as Val's.
 
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hlvn said:
it's the number one thing I want to steal for my Valentine.
I think I should start hoarding what little tech I have until I git gud...
 
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Choose Goose said:
I think I should start hoarding what little tech I have until I git gud...

open source your tech

it's the fastest way to git gud
 
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I would like to point out that picking an assist for big damage rather than neutral game is counterproductive, because if you have the mindset of wanting to get big damage then you are finishing combos and always set the game back in neutral. You are picking an assist that is bad at neutral and forces you to play neutral. The dichotomy is neutral oriented assist vs reset oriented assists, and the strongest assists are the ones that do both like updo and hornet bomber. High damage vs neutral game is not a usefuldistinction in practice.

Edit: sigh, typing on a phone is hard.
 
Which is cool if you're all about that but if you're not then do what you want.
 
Camail said:
I would like to point out that picking an assist for big damage rather than neutral game is counterproductive, because if you have the mindset of wanting to get big damage then you are finishing combos and always set the game back in neutral. You are picking an assist that is bad at neutral and forces you to play neutral. The dichotomy is neutral oriented assist vs reset oriented assists, and the strongest assists are the ones that do both like updo and hornet bomber. High damage vs neutral game is not a usefuldistinction in practice.

Edit: sigh, typing on a phone is hard.
I see where you're coming from, and you're certainly not wrong, but I'm not either & I'll tell you why inabit.

Okay so I typically don't like combo-focused assists for obvious reasons, but I am starting to a bit more these days too for some of the same reasons.

/snip

TL;DR: yes assists for neutral is good, but you must reset quickly after for damage & constant resetting invites mashing of all kinds. Think about it. You're having to reset TWICE as much. Once for the assist itself, then twice for reset of scaling. In addition, damage is typically minimal & bad for combo extension if you get in without it. It allows for easier autopilot neutral, but killing an opponent will take more "work" in the sense of a lot of hits, but less damage & more opportunity for them to weasel out.

On the flipside, combo-focused assists allow combos to EASILY reach 7k at LEAST. no bar. For some, 8k easy no bar & others 9k w/bar. Think about it...that's more than half or at least half their bar with NOTHING they can do about it. No raw tag bull, no air mash supers, no safe DHCs...nothing. They have to sit and take it. A combo with just 1 or 2 resets after no strings is game from there if you wanna reset, but you don't have to because one more combo is death for that opponent lol. See what I'm saying? Your neutral game needs to be TIGHT & for some that's a lot of work...trying to get in, but once you get ONE hit, that's half health minimum.

Soooo basically it all comes down to your play style. Are you secure in your reset game? No? Get an assist for it! Maybe you are secure...well you can bolster it MORE! Or perhaps you don't mind less tools for finishing for hits...but when you do, you tend to take away a LOT of guaranteed health? We'll bolster it more & take away MORE health! Orr...just get napalm pillar and be done with it all :)
 
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Camail said:
I would like to point out that picking an assist for big damage rather than neutral game is counterproductive, because if you have the mindset of wanting to get big damage then you are finishing combos and always set the game back in neutral. You are picking an assist that is bad at neutral and forces you to play neutral. The dichotomy is neutral oriented assist vs reset oriented assists, and the strongest assists are the ones that do both like updo and hornet bomber. High damage vs neutral game is not a usefuldistinction in practice.

Edit: sigh, typing on a phone is hard.

I disagree with this solely on the fact that Cerebella landing a Diamond Drop with and without the assist on hand is a HUGE game changer. You literally go from like 3k damage to 8k off that one throw. Sure it doesn't do much for her neutral at a distance, but it makes her close up neutral a lot more scary with that threat.
 
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This argument boil down to something similar to the teams vs solo argument. Yea, you can get 7k and 8k and only have to touch me twice to kill one of my characters, but getting that confirmable hit is an entirely different story. If I can get 5k more from a grab with cerebella that's nice, but you have to get in. You have to get in on the guy who is using x/filia/double who can murder you without fail. And maybe you play a 3-man team so you do have a neutral game assist as well, but that's kind of constructing a case that avoids the issue at hand. I think some people are underestimating the difficulty of getting a hit against a good player without an assist helping out. Not to mention that if they get a hit and dhc out they will be gaining back all that red health you gave them during that 8k combo. In the long run its just worse. You can do whatever you want, but it IS going to make life harder for you, for no real reason.

And frankly, I don't care about different play styles in regards to assists, this hardly constitutes an area of the game that should be influenced by that. Your point character is where you show play style. Gimping your neutral game for the sake of a niche shenanigan or combo extender is a naive way of expressing your style. Unless you don't want to be good at the game, in which case do whatever.
 
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Camail said:
This argument boil down to something similar to the teams vs solo argument.

...

And frankly, I don't care about different play styles in regards to assists, this hardly constitutes an area of the game that should be influenced by that. Your point character is where you show play style. Gimping your neutral game for the sake of a niche shenanigan or combo extender is a naive way of expressing your style. Unless you don't want to be good at the game, in which case do whatever.

Agree to disagree. <3
 
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