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Report 8/5 Salty: Balance Changes, Console Lobbies, & More

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Flotilla

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Even with Indivisible's development going full steam ahead, Lab Zero Games finds the time to show Skullgirls some love. This week's Salty is all about tweaks and balance changes, and a lot of them!

Lab Zero are still hard at work on patching lobbies into the console versions of Skullgirls, as community manager Render revealed in yesterday's blog post. While lobbies are still undergoing preliminary internal testing, lead designer Mike Z has been hard at work not only on their implementation, but a significant amount of bugfixes, quality of life improvements, and balance adjustments. Every character gets changes this time around:

Proposed last fixes for SG2E
Skullgirls: 2nd Encore - Foray Into Irregular Scintillating Heavens Each Day (FInISHED) (← This is a joke)


General

Bug fixes:

  • Fix getting backward inputs as a reversal after ground techs occasionally! Now, if you do the move the way your character will be facing, it will correctly come out.

  • Allow everyone to negative-edge snapbacks! Oops? (brought to my attention by ShadowFury333)

  • On all platforms except the PS Vita, made the “Leader / ## Wins” text smaller, and moved it down further, to maybe give space above it for stream overlays. MAYBE. (Broken Loose)

  • Hitting an assist with the point character dead now grants 100% of the on-hit meter to the victim, and no meter to the attacker. (Liam)

  • Add back-of-the-head vulnerable boxes to crouching Cerebella, Filia/Fukua, Valentine, and Fortune in hitstun/blockstun/idle, and increase their height when necessary so that test-case moves all hit in the corner. (me, various)

  • Assists that are reset outside doublesnaps with the point alive, if below 75% damage scaling, only go up to 75% scaling, instead of 100%. Unbirthdays are still useful but no longer quite as easy kills. (me)

  • Make buttons also count for shaking out of Staggers, in addition to shaking the joystick! Did this for Beat Extend but not Stagger. >.< (Liam)

  • Make BB and Eliza’s staggers the same length as everyone else’s! (mcpeanuts reminded me)

  • Counterhitting with a hit that is not supposed to kill (first part of Fenrir Drive, Beowulf’s 3-Wolf Moonsault uppercuts, etc) will now indeed not kill, even with the increased counterhit damage. (Liam)

  • Increase the height of Parasoul, Fortune, Robo-Fortune, Squigly, Peacock, Filia/Fukua, and other applicable characters’ on-the-ground hitboxes so that things which OTG most characters will also OTG those characters (Cerebella c.MP, etc) reliably, even when they are OTG’d while flat on the floor before bouncing up. [test cases: CE vs PS: MGR > cLK > cMP (Whiff); PS vs PS: (Corner) cHP > Napalm Pillar > cHK (OTG) x L Shot (Whiff)] (multiple people)

  • If playing another match on the same stage without going to character/stage select, don’t restart the music! (Bang Camaro)

  • Fix weird bugs on startup of PC version with 2+ controllers plugged in. (me)





Characters that have appeared in multiple top 8s and 16s on multiple teams:


Double

Needs some obvious fixes to three things.


Changes:

  • Reduce blockstun from j.HK first hit, to prevent [j.HK]xN blockstring.

  • Improve ability to armor cancel and pushblock between hits of j.HP. (me)

  • Increase blockstun of Fridge by exactly 1f. (related to Beast changes below)

  • Megalith Array (Lv5):
    • Reduce damage so that it is more in line with other Lv5s (~50-65%) at 1.0 damage. (Sage/Fox/Liam etc)

    • Mark it as counterhit! No more teching throws from it...ugh. (thanks for reminding me Liam)

    • Add a 4f buffer period on punch buttons ring-spit inputs, because kick buttons had one. Easier to catch the initial hit now.

    • Standardize invincibility time, it is always 20f regardless of what she does or where the super is activated.
  • Beast of Gehenna:
    • Increase recovery time of Beast of Gehenna summon animation by 5f.

    • The activation of it will not grab if Double is hit/thrown before it makes contact.

    • Increase the startup of the activation by 1f.

    • Puddle time before disappearance 9 sec->8 sec.

    • Puddle counts down to disappear 1.5x fast when Double is not the point character. (Lasts for 2/3 the time it lasts while she is on point.)

    • Bite damage 1750->1500.
Bug fixes:

  • Remove the ability for her airthrow to hit assists. (lots of people)

  • Fix j.LK to allow armor cancels and pushblocks more consistently. (dragonos451)


Fukua

Leave her amazing neutral the same, reduce her amazing damage somewhat.


Changes:

  • Forever a Clone:
    • Allow her to delay the Clone for a maximum of 5 seconds (300f) by continuing to hold down the button. Still may only have one out at a time. Overhead and low properties unchanged. Because this separates Fukua’s two souls (or something lore lore lore), holding a Clone very slowly drains Fukua’s life (total 3.8% if held for the entire 5 seconds), but will not kill her. “SonicFox: also i reccomend [sic] if you do plan on letting fukua hold shadows that she gets SEVERE DAMAGE NERF“ (SonicFox)

    • Because they can be held and can hit high or low, hitting with any Clone now scales followup damage by 50%.

    • Improve Clone coloring so they are more visible.

    • Damage 750->500.

    • Clones now disappear if Fukua is hit, thrown, or blocks an attack.

    • Clones can now be erased by physical attacks, but not by projectiles, the same as Parasoul’s Egret Charge.

    • Put properly-sized vulnerable boxes on Clones.

    • Clones now make a sound while they are out to indicate their position, like her fireball.

    • Reduce hitstun of M Shadow by 4f, to allow characters that couldn’t even attempt to mash out of resets afterward the ability to do so. Could also be accomplished by increasing the launch height slightly. (Sage!)
  • BFFs 2nd hit now fully scales any followups to minimum damage, whether DHC’d into or not. (SonicFox)

  • Reduce damage by ~100 on many moves, 200 on shadows and c.HP, and 300 on command grabs, to lower combo damage slightly.

  • Reduce hitstun from assist H Drill by 5f. (me)

  • Reduce blockstun of Heartseeker, j.RH->j.Fierce +20 on block -> +9 on block. Hitstun unchanged. (Sonic/Sage combined basis)

  • Lv5’s 2nd hit doesn’t fail when used after an OTG has already been used, no longer counts as using up her OTG, and doesn’t knock the opponent back as far for easier followups. (bugfixes etc)

Bug fixes:

  • Fix the end of air Drill of My Dreams not having DHC-out transitions. No more Merry Christmas, heh...although I am happy the engine handled that properly. (Fosh for finding it, Liam for reminding me)

  • j.HK can no longer hit backward as a crossup. (Sage, SonicFox)

  • Extend the hitboxes on their snapback downward to the floor so it doesn’t miss herself during floorbounce frames. (Also fixed for Filia)


Everybody else:


Robo-Fortune

With whom I erred on the side of caution before.


Changes:

  • s.HP startup 19f->16f, hitstun +3f to ensure there are no dead frames when comboing to new Headrone Impact on standing opponents within a reasonable distance. Blockstun unchanged. (me)

  • Remove vulnerable box on c.WP’s ears during the active frames to make it a better antiair.

  • c.MK knocks opponent slightly toward Robo on hit, now combos into c.HP from max range on everyone, instead of having the c.HP whiff. (Stuff)

  • Increase the visual "tell" on s.HK by retiming the beginning. Frame data unchanged, but it now reaches unique frames sooner. (Liam)

  • Properly arrange IPS display pips in Training Mode, and remove unused ones! Oops.

  • Decrease damage on all normals to lower her combo damage a decent amount. Her zoning is getting a huge boost, reducing her actually-pretty-high damage to low-average is basically required.

  • Increase the size of the vulnerable boxes, and slightly decrease the size of the hitbox, on j.HK to make it easier to contest. (Liam)

  • Magnet:
    • Causes untechable knockdown. Does not leave the opponent grounded long enough to cross up, only long enough to retreat.

    • Is now strike invincible before the superflash, rather than throw invincible. Still fully invincible after the flash until the first active frame. This gives her a safe DHC out.
  • Beams:
    • Make L/M beams reach fullscreen on the first active frame, instead of half that, so they instantly hit everything in the way.

    • Increase damage to 700 and chip damage to 400 on L/M beams

    • Decrease recovery on L/M ground beams by 5f.

    • Decrease recovery on H ground beam by 7f.

    • Increased hitstun/blockstun/knockback on j.L beam a bit.

    • Beam impacts now correctly show IPS sparks.

    • Double-jumping grants another air Beam use if one was already used. (MMDS, hey look at that!)

    • H beam now doesn’t break Big Band’s armor. This move alone made this the worst matchup in the game before, so I am specifically buffing this matchup. Headrone Impact still breaks armor, and her zoning has been buffed too. (me) HOWEVER…

    • Increased hitstop on H Beam vs armor from 0f to 3f. This allows Robo to block a fullscreen SSJ that will go through her falling H Beam, but not a half-screen SSJ, and not with a ground H Beam. Armor cancels are still possible vs this Beam.

  • Headrone RAM:
    • Improve vertical tracking speed a bit.

    • Chip damage 150 -> 300.
  • Headrone Impact:
    • Decrease time between a head detecting the opponent and it finally exploding to 1f from 6f.

    • Heads that make contact during the airborne dive portion will always explode on landing instead of waiting (or disappearing if Robo is in hitstun).

    • Increase hitstun on air portion by 5f to help ensure it always combos into the detonation.
  • Headrone Salvo:
    • Missiles knock airborne opponents downward rather than upward.

    • Number of missiles increased: 1 head = 3->4, 2 heads = 6->8, 3 heads = 9->12, 3 heads + taunt = 21.

    • Increase hitstun 22f->32f, blockstun unchanged. Perhaps this and the increase in the number fired will help opponents not be able to capitalize as much after being hit...

    • Salvo assist now summons up to 3 heads per call when she doesn’t already have 3 heads. A second call is still be required to fire them.
  • Head stuff:
    • All versions of QCB+K activate heads earlier in the animation, at 6f instead of 14f.

    • Heads respond to activation call 10f faster, and begin their action 3f faster after responding.

    • Reduced the recovery of all versions by 3f.

    • Reduce recovery of c.HK by 2f.
  • L Danger:
    • Invincible from the knees up, rather than the waist up, through the active frames.

    • Hitbox slightly bigger.

    • Startup 11f->10f.

    • Pulls opponent in on hit so all hits connect from any distance.

    • Knocks away higher and farther to aid zoning if she chooses not to supercancel.

    • Recovery increased, now -20 on block.
  • Catastrophe Cannon:
    • Reduce opponent meter build on hit for all versions.
  • Lv3:
    • During Lv3, L/M beams cause untechable sliding knockdown, similar to Fukua’s airthrow.

    • Explosion does not push airblocking oppoents backward and release them from it.

    • Explosion now keeps the opponent in hitstop so they cannot PBGC during it. Using the bug for good, for once!

    • Exploding does not clear Robo Fortune’s undizzy or reset damage scaling until she fully completes the recovery (i.e. the recovery counts as still-in-hitstun); the opponent does get a CH which subtracts some undizzy, but they do not get a full new HCH combo with reset IPS.

    • Landing recovery increased after explosion.

    • When Robo is not the point character, explosion timer is always set to 50% remaining. Prevents snapping her in for a free kill.

    • Alpha-countering her in will instantly explode on landing, because that’s a minimum cost of 4 bars.

    • After activation, Robo has up to 25f of invincibility if she doesn’t do anything, a-la Tanden Renki.

    • Timer counts down 5x as fast during Iron Claw, meaning she should always explode after it slams.

    • Add flames (visual effect) when she is close to detonating to distinguish from flashing without sound. (Good call, Liam)

Bug fixes:

  • Double jump point falling through the floor shouldn’t count as “landing” to set off IPS.

  • Allow her to negative-edge all specials including Danger. Oops.
  • Remove the shadow from Robo-Fortune’s electricity on her burst. (Liam)

  • Fix Robo-Fortune’s Lv5 using the wrong (Lv3) voice clip and background color when DHC’d into.

  • Magnet super: Pause timer/prevent time-out while opponent is grabbed. Oops.

  • L/M/H beams are now all the same IPS category. Air and ground are different categories. Hasn’t really mattered yet but it might...
Beowulf


Bug fixes:

  • Make H chair toss not get hit by Big Band’s H Giant Step quake! (Bang Camaro)


Big Band


Changes:

  • Reduce recovery of successful L A-Train enough to allow meterless followups in the corner. Decrease startup by 5f, decrease corner pushback on successful grab. (SonicFox)

  • Change opponent trajectory after taunted Tympany to allow followups midscreen. (SonicFox)

  • Limit j.MK to once per combo! Sorry 159man, but really, these are the only combos in the entire game that I would call “annoying”. (ME)

  • Decrease the startup of his tag-in.

  • You can now hold any P during the Super Sonic Jazz superflash to force a non-taunted version even with a taunt. Added a visual indication (musical notes) after the superflash of which version is happening. (Liam)

  • You can now hold any K during the last hit of Timpani to force a non-taunted version even with a taunt. (Liam)

  • improved the opponent’s position during taunted SSJ rush and punch loop.

  • Lv3:
    • Increased invincibility by 6f (1 more podium appearance) to help it not trade with close-range projectiles. (me)
  • Lv5: “Should be way better as a tool” (Liam):
    • Now has Hyper Armor!

    • Now breaks all regular armor, but not Hyper Armor.

    • Increased the advantage on hit by +2f to make OTGs on Double more consistent.

    • Now vacuums on hit. (FukuaTwerkTeam)

Bug fixes:



Cerebella


Bug fixes:

  • Add small (~3f) buffer period for attacks after Dynamo, because there are 1f links to F+HP on some characters.

  • Fix a bug where if she were hit by an armor-breaking move on the very last armored frame of a Lock’n’Load, she would go into the regular move ending instead of hitstun. (FukuaTwerkTeam)

  • Make the 2nd+ Kanchous in a combo deal the regular 1000 dmg, instead of the previous-version’s 1400. Oops, missed that. :^P

  • Remove the ability to use Diamond Deflector on the earthquake from Big Band’s H Giant Step. (lots of people)

  • Reflecting Val’s poison should not poison the character! (Liam)


Eliza


Changes:

  • Lv3 minus ~400 damage unscaled, minus ~600 damage fully scaled. (multiple people)

Bug fixes:

  • Fix position of Eliza’s on-back OTG frames relative to other characters; fixes Beowulf air Killa+Brass, among other things. (Bang Camaro, me)


Filia


Bug fixes:

  • Increase the hitstun of the middle hits of Filia’s Hairball/Airball so that it is not possible to cancel to a Lv3 and have it not combo. (SonicFox)

  • Adjusted last hit of HK Airball to not knock opponent up as high, and ground Hairball now causes facedown knockdown instead of faceup, which makes all 3 supers connect off both versions on the entire cast. (thanks Wingzero for replays)

  • Fixed her position at the end of Gregor Samson, so the recovery of the ground version is now ground-throwable. (Liam)

  • s.HP launches higher vs airborne opponents that are closer to the ground, to compensate for lower launch height of H Airball.
  • Extend the hitboxes on their snapback downward to the floor so it doesn’t miss herself during floorbounce frames. (Also fixed for Fukua)
Ms. Fortune


Changes:

  • Help her IAD j.LK hit (VA/FI/MF/CE/PE) in the corner. Actually was helped by hitbox changes! (Stuff)

  • Reduce height of hitbox on certain dash frames so she is consistently below Tear Shot rather than being one-pixel-too-high during certain frames. (Stuff, Liam; currently only 2/14 frames will she be hit, so “consistent” behavior is always-not-hit.)

Bug fixes:

  • During double-snaps where Fortune is the assist, the head is invincible when it is not in hitstun. This was already true when Fortune was the point character, but I had missed that case. Now it’s true during any double-snap. (thanks Daemyx!)


Painwheel


Changes:

  • Improve ability to armor cancel and pushblock between hits of j.MP. (me)

Bug fixes:

  • Adjusted the end of Buer Thresher so that the opponent is knocked ever so slightly farther away; prevents Painwheel from crossing up Filia occasionally leading to weird behavior. To combo afterward now, fly DF+MK should always work. (thanks Daemyx for reminding me)

  • Fix M Buer->Death Crawl on Double by increasing the hitstop of Death Crawl to 4f on OTG hit only. Death Crawl’s hits are floor bounces, so this only happens on the first hit if it happens at all. (Daemyx)


Parasoul


Changes:

  • Fix Spiral Flare (j.B+LK) to allow armor cancels and pushblocks more consistently. (dragonos451)

  • s.LPx2 now hits crouching Double with both strikes, except at the very tip.

Bug fixes:

  • Fix Lv3 bug:
    (thanks DoubleOrNothing!)

  • Make it easier to pushblock Motor Brigade, reduce blockstop + increase blockstun by same amount. (Liam)

  • s.HP on hit -7 -> -2, s.HPx2 on hit -5 -> -2. Block disadvantage unchanged. (SonicFox)

  • Increase minimum scaled damage on Motor Brigade from ~500 to ~1000. (me)


Peacock


Changes:

  • Little Argus lasers now correctly create IPS/Undizzy sparks.

Bug fixes:

  • Make Peacock’s SoiD properly disappear when she is thrown immediately after blocking while holding a Shadow that has been RELEASED during blockstun. (Psychopath)

  • Make Peacock’s air knockdown fall loop also have consistent hitboxes through the whole animation, rather than only boxes rotating with her. Extend her boxes upward so that she is relatively the same as other characters. Fixes many vs-Peacock juggles. (me)


Squigly


Changes:

  • Stance-attack assists no longer autocorrect twice, once on landing and once on the move startup. Now they only do it on landing, like all other assists. (multiple people)

  • Decrease the startup of her tag-in, correct the hit direction when the opponent is behind her, and made it knock the opponent farther so it works better in midstage.

  • Lv5 now requires either Seria charge + taunt, not both charges.

  • Allow Lv5 with taunt and any one charge, rather than both. Now you can combo into it..!


Valentine


Changes:

  • Increase the hitstop on the kick from her airthrow by 1f, and add hitstop on the preflash portion of Checkmate Incision or Flatline when done immediately after a successful airthrow, to make OTGless 1-bar conversions more consistent.

  • Fix airthrow release position for Parasoul and Valentine, it was MUCH too high.

  • Increase buffer period from backdash to airdash so there are not dead frames.

  • Give backdash->airdash a shortcut of just F, not requiring F,F.
Now that backdash->airdash is much easier, moved the earliest airdash-cancel time in backdash to 4f later, so that backdash->airdash j.LP is the same speed as Filia IAD j.LK AND so that all jumping attacks reach active frames when done as fast as possible.
(Thanks, Mike & Render!)

You can expect to see all of these changes in the Endless Beta patch due out tonight!

Going back up a bit, Render announced the status of the console patches in an announcement yesterday. Alongside lobbies, the console patches will address several console-specific issues that occur on the next-gen PS family ports. Unfortunately, because the PS family ports have to go through "3 platforms x 3 territories x 3 publishers" for certification, there may possibly be delays. However, to compensate for these delays and reward their patient fans, Lab Zero is currently working on patching in new character intro animations from the mobile version of Skullgirls!

Finally, Lab Zero is looking into a limited English physical release of Skullgirls, so that those outside Japan will have a chance to own their very own copy. Expect more on this sometime after the lobby patch comes out for consoles.

Make sure to follow @Skullgirls on Twitter to keep up on the latest news and updates, and tune in to Salty! at twitch.tv/game_realms every other week at 8PM PST! The next Salty will be Friday, August 19. Don't miss it!
 
Last edited:
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Reactions: FirstNameBasis, Jinzer069, scottvincent and 15 others
remove ice clone nuke fukua
 
nooo. mike's taking away val's "empty" backdash airdash with jHP. i liked doing that -> low
 
Buffs for Robo!
 
Nice buff BB didn't really touch Bella. The F+HP buff makes it easier to pick up with beat extend ah yes yes thank you good change
 
Okay okay, all this is cool but...
Where are my Marie bug fixes?
I can't party hard without them.
 
Super happy about the Fukua changes.
 
Flotilla said:
  • Lv5 now requires either Seria charge + taunt, not both charges.

  • Allow Lv5 with taunt and any one charge, rather than both. Now you can combo into it..!
A change so nice Mike wrote it twice.
 
Jesus the Squigly buff.....
 
The wording on the new Fukua mechanic confuses me. Is she holding the pose and delaying the clone coming out (BB delayable attacks), or making the clone travel further across the screen?
 
Cheesedragon said:
The wording on the new Fukua mechanic confuses me. Is she holding the pose and delaying the clone coming out (BB delayable attacks), or making the clone travel further across the screen?

Holding and delaying it. Drains health every frame you hold it and gives a warning of what clone it is.
 
Welp, booted it up. As I read, Painwheel's Buer Overdrive was not changed to get 1 extra point of armor when using Hatred Install, even though I brought up that bug. Maybe I put it in the wrong place?
 
That Big Band note about j.mk is misleading. I thought you couldn't use j.mk at all more than once per combo when in truth you can't do the EXTENSION more than once. Suddenly I'm more ok with this.
 
Is Gahenna coming back in random stage select, don't remember why it was taken out in first place? Makes for a fun surprise, especially the character intros.
 
It was removed from random select because some people found it too disturbing. I kinda like that it's now elevated to being a special stage you have to manually pick. Makes it special.
 
Cheesedragon said:
Are people really that squeamish? Should Eliza be removed from random character select then? Sheesh.
Yeah, people had legitimate issues with trypophobia whenever that stage came up.
 
Cheesedragon said:
GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH GOOGLING THAT MAKES ME WANNA DIE.

Then why is it my all-time favorite stage? You must have the wrong phobia.

D:

And yeah, that has to be the wrong phobia. I thought the reported reason was because players found it too ooky... something that never bothered me having spent 10 years playing the gorefest known as Half-Life 1. : ^)
 
People also don't care for how there is no music and the severe change in tone compared with other stages

I like Gehenna not being on random because I don't like it too much beyond the creepy coolness

but it no longer being on random makes Beowulf's intro quote for it not as funny IMO
 
Oh well, I just think the stage is a good representation for Double and Eliza. Displaying their true selves on a grand scale.
 
I always pick Gehenna

Fear me
 
about time for news on lobbies.
 
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