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Another training diary that no one will read or care about

Ok i just took a look at your footage.


One. you never did SJ you instead just did a regular jump with assist call vs brass with peacock in 1 meter.

Peacock would normally go for argus peacock doesn't need to take risk at all because some of argus does random low shots which will beat bypass at that range.

Another thing to consider is that you call LNL at full range. essientially you let peacock do the hurting.

what didn't help was you messing up conversions and letting peacock away.

MOST IMPORTANTLY you lost your matches due to air grab always an airgrab. if you approach cock from the ground you've already avoided the chance of getting grabbed and you can block.

the problem wasn't really peacock but your inability to adapt to those matches.

Overall i suggest not calling LNL as a defensive space. cause that's a wasted assist call and an wasted call can harm your gameplan. your main mentality to the matchup and forces you to be more cautious(little to no assist calls). and val without assists at her side is a bit.....easy for peacock to take on with that team set up. Please air tech or use your airgrab more its gud!

Edit: i'm willing to banter with you cause i felt the same way. so feel free to give counter arguments!
 
Even though you're a big baby I still want to go through this for my own sake to look at Peacock things:

3:50
That doesn't work, use Scalpels if you want to beat it.
You get hit by a counter hit unscaled super by opening your self up.

3:53
He reads your jump approach really well and throws you before you can get out jHP or double jump away.
This has nothing to do with Peacock as any character would do that.

3:58
This is sort of a Yomi Layer thing that got you hit but that was a free counter hit frame trap after pillar that you missed.
That didn't really need to happen at all and it really didn't have anything to do with Peacock either.
You didn't bait anything either since you got hit by LP, you just didn't follow up.

4:02
You fucked up your pushblock and died for it since you were low health against a melee string and only noticed after 3 hits.
You could have done Scalpels into Bikes or something.

- Val Dies To Peacock Because 10 - 0 Matchup For Peacock -

- Parasoul Enters the 9 - 1 Matchup -

4:11
You just sat there while something shielded Peacocks most unsafe move that covers only one area.
You didn't move fast enough to make any good solid ground.

4:15
Good dash jump but you didn't have your assist so there wasn't much you could have done.

4:17
That should have been a chicken block on the plane but it wasn't.

4:19
I think there was time to dash under that plane which would have been really important.
Dashing under the plane then dash jumping over the car is really really really vital because HK George xx LK George isn't ready to stop you.

4:20 [Blaze It]
You blocked the plane, you can jump over the car.
You dashed into the moving car.
When Peacock does Plane xx Car you can jump over the car by holding up forward.
You have even more time to dash jump the car if you chicken block the plane.

Chicken block projectiles more

4:22
If you chicken blocked that wall you would have been able to more forward faster and close the gap.

4:26
OH MY GOD HUGE MISTAKE BY ILLIAD YOU'RE FUCKING IN THERE CYNICAL YEAH KILL THE PEACOCK WITH DISGUSTING RESE- Oh.

4:29
j.HP was too late.

4:31
Cute Spiral Flare.
You missed the conversion.
Nothing to do with Peacock again, you just fucked up and are punished accordingly. (By not getting combos and control and reset and positioning)

4:33
Missed Dash Jump Input.
That sucks because it would have really helped since Big Band assist got hit by L Shot.

4:34
Like what the fuck that was perfect.
Jump up, block Plane, call LNL to stop Peacock from doing anything but Block, get in there with 6LP/2LK/Throw

4:38
The first well spaced good JHP and you drop it the conversion AGAIN.
I don't think Peacock is the biggest problem here.

4:40
Okay you could still recover because Lock N Load is good.
You had her locked down pretty good and JLP would have sealed the deal but you went for jHP instead which is techable air to air.
Basically you used the wrong button and got beat clean by a nice air throw.
He's probably noticing you like JHP more than JLP so he can get those air throws in, but JLP priority would stuff that.

- Parasoul Dies -

4:44
Reflector that car for free combo.

4:48
PBGC Dynamo :^)

4:50
I don't think battle butt is that good but I don't really play Bella.
You could have chicken blocked Big Bank to counter hit the teleport or at least have scarrier options for when you leave blockstun.

-Ded-

Lots of non Peacock related mistakes going on here as well as missed opportunities and bad footwork against the zoning.
Pretty sure Val died without getting hit by full screen zoning shit once.
(Probably because he's scared to zone her out because of her really good Savage Bypass xx Scalpels)

Just don't pick a single line of text and ignore everything else and use at as a defense as to why it's a 10-0 match up or say 'there was nothing I could do'

I probably won't be back.
 
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I think you guys are reading cynical wrong. You are replying to him like he's saying the game is broken... When he's simply saying that he sucks... Which are 2 different things.

Not that he HASNT said vals sucks etc to etc, but he didnt seem to do it in this new rant, unless i missed it.

Point being... Telling him that he's making mistakes isnt going to help. I'm pretty sure he knows he's making mistakes.


@Cynical


You may be correct that you just suck. Maybe. Or it might be your attitude keeping you in check... Might be.

But one thing i could tell from your play just now is that you definitely seem to lack control of your characters in general. You seem to flail around a lot trying to attack and space your stuff horribly (whiffing stuff) my advice is to slow down a bit and try to react to your opponents movement more. This will make your spacing better and you wont flail so much.


Also, certain moves lend themselves to spacing better than others. Like vals j.hp is better for spacing (aka not wiffing) than her j.mp is. Her j.mp is for people with really fast spacing reactions or if you know where your opponent is going to be beforehand ( a set play like a reset mixup, or a read, like a neutral read... But you dont really just want to throw out the move wily nilly because simply making contact with it isnt good enough... If you dont space and time it right you come away with random amounts of hits which makes you need to adjust midmove, or you wont get the proper amount of block/hitstun to work with... Basically it isnt an easy move to use at all. So... Practice it and use it less imho. But as with all things its do what you want but this is just general advice. All moves have strengths and weaknesses depending on distance and position... Which kinda goes without saying.
 
Back home from DFW/Arlington locals.

1. Holy fuck, I need a new monitor. My desktop PC was the Skullgirls setup, but I was playing on an ASUS monitor the tournament hosts provided, and god damn did the game feel about a million times more responsive.
2. We didn't have enough for a tournament, but I played sets against several people. Did better than I thought I would against Krye (played two sets with him; won one 5-4, lost the other 5-4), won two sets against Kit Ballard easily, won one set against some guy played back in SDE days who had a decent Peacock and weak Big Band (I just snapped his Band in at every single opportunity)(side note, guy whose Peacock/Band I played, I doubt you're reading this, but if you are, speak up, since I missed your name!), and then won a set against some solo Val who looked like he was brand new to the game.
3. Fucking hell, I wish I could stop dropping combos. I'm a lot more solid in that regard with Bella than I am my other two chars, and worst with Val (which, I guess, is the best to be "worst" with, since I'm currently planning on dropping her for Eliza effective now). Focus was a problem, since the Soul Calibur setup was not 3 feet away, and was constantly dancing in my peripheral vision, and their sound was louder than ours. Excuses, I know.
 
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Note to self -- timing on Eliza lk spiral -> s.lk link is *immediately* after the opponent reaches apogee on the "mini-launch" from the spiral.
 
Day 2 of Eliza has me really worried if I'm going to be capable of playing this character. I can't do the OTGs that I absolutely have to be able to do in order to play the character at all, and pretty much every time I take her out of training room, she just gets perfected with me having absolutely no idea what happened.

(Also, wow, her hitboxes match her sprites poorly. Even by this game's standards.
 
Cynical said:
Day 2 of Eliza has me really worried if I'm going to be capable of playing this character. I can't do the OTGs that I absolutely have to be able to do in order to play the character at all, and pretty much every time I take her out of training room, she just gets perfected with me having absolutely no idea what happened.

(Also, wow, her hitboxes match her sprites poorly. Even by this game's standards.


There are some patterns with Eliza that you are going to need to know... They are somewhat spacing intensive but these are needed:

For attacking from midrange:

Jump iad or dash jump iad j.lk,j.hp (2 hit high attack with good priority)
Up close to opponent: iad j.hp xx airdash j.lk,j.hp (high attack with some crazy crossup properties)


General neutral: j.mk air to air then iad into another j.mk or j.hk or iad into j.hp if your j.mk wiffed.

General air to air: jump instant j.hk (great because of the range and jumpback)


Against zoners like peacock: sweep, wait till you get near the opponent, xx hp dp and up confirm it with a jump.

Just you know, things like that. None are fool proof but they are very good when used in the right situation. Watch some woofly games for a feel on how to use her airdash chains, Eliza is all about the airdash chains and mixing them up appropriately according to spacing and general mixups. I would advise to have some lockdown with her so that you can go low with like cr.mk plus lockdown assist, which will make her much more safe on block (watch out for pbgc though)


I dont play Eliza but i play against some good ones and this is what they do to me.
 
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Dime_x said:
Up close to opponent: iad j.hp xx airdash j.lk,j.hp (high attack with some crazy crossup properties)
Huh? How do I ADC the j.hp if I already used my airdash for the IAD?
 
Cynical said:
Huh? How do I ADC the j.hp if I already used my airdash for the IAD?


My bad, you should know by now that i have typos everywhere. Its just an instant j.hp. Then airdash cancel into j.lk and chain that into j.hp

Eliza is a character that like filia and painwheel concentrates on air to ground confirms rather than just ground confirms. Her air confirms are afaik safe on block. Mix it up with throws. Only go low if you KNOW your opponent is blocking high or if you know you have an assist to make your low, safe on block. A good low assist goes well with her safe highs.
 
Dime_x said:
Only go low if [...] you have an assist to make your low, safe on block.
By this, do you mean something like "switch LnL out for Cerecopter, do c.lk~hp for c.lk + copter, and they're still in the copter when your low string ends", or do you mean something like "c.lk -> c.mk -> L spiral -> Pillar"?

Butcher Blade assist makes me feel a lot more comfortable changing my Cerebella assists around, since it kinda covers the roles of both LnL and Copter, so I can switch to whichever one that Eliza likes more and let Parasoul rely more on the Eliza assist. Provided I can get Parasoul in without Eliza dying, of course, since she doesn't have an invicible level 1 that can be DHCd to bikes.
 
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Just something where you can see your stuff getting blocked and go "oh I'm getting blocked, better call out my assist to save my ass"

I went into training mode and found:

Eliza with copter

Cr.lk cr.mk (2) st.hp~st.mk assist call


The first 3 hits of the lk and mk attacks will be more than enough to verify block or hit and then you just chain into st.hp and call your assist at the same time. Maybe cancel the st.hp into overhead goon or whatever... Its your oyster, do what you want with it.



However be careful with this shit. If you are playing against someone like me i will pbgc through that everytime. You have to be very careful with Eliza's low attacks.
 
Another long training mode session has me seriously worried about my ability to physically play Eliza. I can't make c.hkxxShoryu work from the P2 side. My wrist won't rotate the right way; it either comes out as 714 or 451, and all practicing is giving me is a bunch of arthritis pain in my wrist.
 
Why don't you simply use a combo that doesn't feature otg c.hk xx dp
 
Not certain it's even possible to on a lot of hits; launch into j.mp -> j.hp adc j.lk whiffs a lot of the time if you aren't using the DP launch, and even in cases where it is possible, it's hte difference between 5K and 7.6K. I can't leave an extra 50% damage on the table and still hope to be viable at all.
 
why don't you get a hand brace. people with major arthritis in their hands get them so they can do things that they would normally would not be able to do with out hurting themselves.
 
Cynical said:
Not certain it's even possible to on a lot of hits; launch into j.mp -> j.hp adc j.lk whiffs a lot of the time if you aren't using the DP launch, and even in cases where it is possible, it's hte difference between 5K and 7.6K. I can't leave an extra 50% damage on the table and still hope to be viable at all.
Woofly doesn't use c.hk in combos and he is pretty much the best Eliza player

Edit: Maybe you could even invent your own combo...!
 
Fuck, I don't think I have any choice but to admit that my time with this game is 650 hours completely wasted.

100 hours is literally all it takes for ANYONE to be able to beat me 100% of the time. Literally. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in this game with over 100 hours is able to beat me 100% of the time, and not just my Eliza.

So fucking hopeless.
 
Turns out it doesn't even take 100 hours.

I just got FUCKING CRUSHED by someone who just bought the game today, has less than 5 hours in game, and doesn't know a single combo more than ground string into special. No, not even a super cancel on that.

Why am I even still fucking bothering?
 
Hey everybody sucks, I suck, Twerk sucks, the thing is don't let shit keep you down. keep a stiff upper lip and push onward. You can only go upwards in your want to become better.
 
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The problem is you're not having fun. Why do you even want to be good at something you aren't enjoying? Take a break, come back, and try to find the fun again.
Also,
1408381202faiNomatterhowgoodyouareatsomething.jpg
 
Cynical said:
Fuck, I don't think I have any choice but to admit that my time with this game is 650 hours completely wasted.

100 hours is literally all it takes for ANYONE to be able to beat me 100% of the time. Literally. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in this game with over 100 hours is able to beat me 100% of the time, and not just my Eliza.

So fucking hopeless.
I beat players who have more hours than me all the time. It doesn't necessarily determine your skill level. I also don't think skill level should determine whether or not you've "wasted" your time but rather it should be how much you feel like you've gained from the game, video game related or not. Personally, I've made some really cherished friends from this game that are more value to me than any match or tournament I could win. I'm sure the evo champ would say the same. Do you feel enjoyment from locals? Do you feel enjoyment when chatting to people about the game, local or through text? Then you didn't waste your time, and if you still feel like you did then I strongly suggest a different outlook on competitive gaming altogether.


Also, the 5 hours thing makes me really think that you should try going duo instead of trio for a bit (I assume they were playing solo (or duo?) and so they had stupidly high damage vs your trio).
 
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drewski said:
I beat players who have more hours than me all the time. It doesn't necessarily determine your skill level. I also don't think skill level should determine whether or not you've "wasted" your time but rather it should be how much you feel like you've gained from the game, video game related or not. Personally, I've made some really cherished friends from this game that are more value to me than any match or tournament I could win. I'm sure the evo champ would say the same. Do you feel enjoyment from locals? Do you feel enjoyment when chatting to people about the game, local or through text? Then you didn't waste your time, and if you still feel like you did then I strongly suggest a different outlook on competitive gaming altogether.


Also, the 5 hours thing makes me really think that you should try going duo instead of trio for a bit (I assume they were playing solo (or duo?) and so they had stupidly high damage vs your trio).
If you're someone like me and you're consistently getting trashed by people with less than 1/4th your experience, it means there's something horribly wrong with whatever the fuck it is you're doing, or there's something horribly wrong with you.

Yeah, locals are fun, but when you live in a shithole metroplex that that takes over 2 hours to drive across, and there's a grand total of four players who live in that metroplex, and the other three of them can rarely afford gas money... yeah. That's something you get to do about once every 4 months.

The guy with less than 5 hours in game was playing a duo, which actually does *less* damage than a trio when adjusted for the trio's extra health from having a third character.

(None of the above probably makes any sense at all, because I'm drunk enough that the room is spinning a bit and I'm making the occasional typo because of it. Sorry.)
 
So, interesting timing... I just read an interview with Viscant, and he mentioned that when he was struggling to progress, he was able to shake out of it by limiting his sessions to 30 minutes, going and doing something else, playing another 30 minute session, etc. I figure I'll try it myself, and see how it goes.

http://www.twitch.tv/pbacque/b/575913859

-I need to start selecting my whole team in training, even if I only plan on grinding stuff with one character. I'm getting a ton of accidental pillars on my P to K chains.
-Bella raw tag is a good reversal, but doing it just because I feel vaguely uncomfortable is BAAAAAAD.
-Wow, it's really dangerous for Eliza to hit buttons against Band. Since she projects hurtboxes so far forward, she really can be bopped from about a million miles away if you aren't careful.
-There's no reason to dash-jump with Para if I only want to move forward. Just dashing is OK!
-MGR does not work on Eliza in the corner at point-blank. She's not Band. Had to find that out somehow.
-Hirokuni uses M Shoryu for his Eliza reversal.
-Khepri Sun doesn't DHC very well off of Parasoul Sniper.
 
So, is there ANYTHING you can do about Peacock with a multi-hit assist that just does backdash -> ground bomb, and then does assist followed by teleport teleport behind when you get to the corner?

I got literally perfected by this exact algorithm over and over and over and over and over again until the timer ran down last night. The teleport was completely free because of the assist -- if I jump, I can't punish the teleport, and if I don't jump, I'm in blockstun and can't punish the teleport -- and her fucking backdash is fast enough that I literally can't catch up to her movement, since her backdash carries her backwards faster than a dash-jump carries me forward, not to mention that, again, every single dash jump is a literally free teleport for her.

#singleplayerfightinggame
 
You could've picked Valentine and jumped over all of her projectiles and assist.
 
I can jump over literally everything she did with any other character, but every single jump is literally a free teleport behind, so I can't ever catch her.
 
or you could have used cerebella to reflect or armor thru it. And besides the peacock teleport assist follow is fairly basic and if you pbgc or Alpha counter then it's very easy to punish it. Was the peacock using Heavy LnL assist? Double Butt? either way there are multiple answers to this setup.
 
Peacock was using Hairball, actually.

There was nothing to reflect or amrmor through; it was the fucking assist that meant I couldn't do anything about the teleport, and got Benny Hill'd from one end of the stage to the other over and over and over and over and over.
 
if it's just hairball can't you just pillar it? It even covers for the teleport if you time it correctly and there's no way you can get your inputs get crossed up since it's [2]8

horns 360 that teleport
 
Cynical said:
I can jump over literally everything she did with any other character, but every single jump is literally a free teleport behind, so I can't ever catch her.

After you jump forward, doublejump backwards.
 
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Quick note to self: to make Eliza's BnB's on Double really easy, just reverse the order of the two air chains (so, instead of doing j.mp -> j.hp ADC j.lk -> j.mp -> j.hp, do j.lk -> j.mp -> j.hp ADC j.mp -> j.hp).
 
So, exactly how do you go about learning to reversal out of resets? Being unable to time that at all is a massive hole in my game that's really limiting me; a lot of players are able to dance all over me once they land the hit and get away with a whole lot more than they should be able to, just because my defensive timing is shit.

That, combined with entirely too many combo drops, were the two big themes in the set I just played against Pet (score was me losing 7-20).
 
It basically comes down to just knowing what the reset points are and practicing getting out of them. It doesn't work all the time since people can vary timings on their resets, and of course you're never going to be able to see every reset ever, but that's where learning during practice sets (i.e. seeing what the opponent is hitting you with and responding) is critical. If you can, try to replicate the setup yourself in training mode and try to learn both how it works and when you can reversal and your options in general there. Part of it does come to reflexes and training though, which is something everyone just have to have and/or build (and some people can only train their reflexes so far physically).
 
Notes from set against @LSP

Stop jumping at PW with Eliza; PW will win an air-to-air battle nearly every time (the only exception being PW jumping into an Eliza airthrow). Instead, try to make some space, and use MK Servant, which is basically the anti-PW button at a lot of ranges. Be wary of doing it start of round, though, since PW j.mp will tear that shit up at that range.

Learn Eliza combos from ranges where her air combos tend to whiff off of a c.mk -> mphpDP pickup (common off of pillars or MK servant).

Excellabella anti-air would be really nice to have, but holy fuck, the reaction time needed to really use it that way is insane... certainly faster than I am.
 
After some training mode, it's clear that I need to learn the 2HKxx623HP pickups. Harder to do than the 2mk->5hp->5hp->623mphp pickups, but a lot more consistent on lightweights, and a lot more damaging.

They're a bit worse in some ways off of normal chains (i.e., combos where I'm not confirming from an OTG) since doing 2hpxx236mk raises IPS by a level (new chain), so they end with more undizzy (limiting for the reset/pressure game); it's going to be weird switching back and forth between two paths like that.
 
Cynical said:
Turns out it doesn't even take 100 hours.

I just got FUCKING CRUSHED by someone who just bought the game today, has less than 5 hours in game, and doesn't know a single combo more than ground string into special. No, not even a super cancel on that.

Why am I even still fucking bothering?
You did beat me once and I have like... 1000 hours on beta alone.

Sure, it was just once but once turns into twice and so on.
 
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Cynical said:
Notes from set against @LSP

Stop jumping at PW with Eliza; PW will win an air-to-air battle nearly every time (the only exception being PW jumping into an Eliza airthrow). Instead, try to make some space, and use MK Servant, which is basically the anti-PW button at a lot of ranges. Be wary of doing it start of round, though, since PW j.mp will tear that shit up at that range.

Learn Eliza combos from ranges where her air combos tend to whiff off of a c.mk -> mphpDP pickup (common off of pillars or MK servant).

Excellabella anti-air would be really nice to have, but holy fuck, the reaction time needed to really use it that way is insane... certainly faster than I am.


I havent played the matchup since beta, but even with Eliza having new hurtboxes this seems kinda dubious... Eliza's go to air to air against pw is Eliza's j.mk (14 frame startup), painwheels go to aerial attack is j.mp 22 frame startup) if you make sure to close distance you shouldnt really be losing to painwheels priority imho since you have faster buttons with more range to boot. Try closing in on painwheel instead of hanging back is what i would say... As far as theory goes anyways.
 
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