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Beginner Questions Thread

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For Peacock's you have do delay your button presses, she doesn't move right away.
 
Thx for suggestion. I suppose is press PP better than doubletap on stick, if not the only way to perform right? Need more training.
 
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For airdash cancels you can do either, as you have plenty time to buffer. I prefer using Stick for ADCs and Ground Dashes, but use Buttons for Wavedashes and IADs.
 
Hello, why is it that Peacock's Shadow of Impeding Doom is harder to input than other QCF/QCB? I have no problem with the rest, it's only SoID that seems to fail even though I did the quarter circle.
 
QCFPPP said:
Hello, why is it that Peacock's Shadow of Impeding Doom is harder to input than other QCF/QCB? I have no problem with the rest, it's only SoID that seems to fail even though I did the quarter circle.

Are you saying it's harder to START SoID (ie create the shadow), or to drop the item as fast as possible (ie create the shadow + let go to drop the item)? If it's the latter, it may be because most moves activate on the positive edge of the button (like Filia's ringlet) while SoID will drop the item on the negative edge of the button. I'm no Peacock expert though, so someone else might wanna chime in here.
 
Money said:
Are you saying it's harder to START SoID (ie create the shadow), or to drop the item as fast as possible (ie create the shadow + let go to drop the item)? If it's the latter, it may be because most moves activate on the positive edge of the button (like Filia's ringlet) while SoID will drop the item on the negative edge of the button. I'm no Peacock expert though, so someone else might wanna chime in here.

To start SoID, I end up doing either the standing or crouching punches instead.
 
I'm sorry but may I know what's this positive and negative edge that you guys talked about?
 
Negative Edge is doing a Special on Button release, rather than on Button press.
Normally, you'd input a Fireball like this: Down, Downforward, Forward, Punch.
However, you can also do it like this: Punch(Hold), Down, Downforward, Forward, (Release Punch).

This makes inputting specials a bit easier, as a very common execution mistake is pressing
- Down, Downforward, Punch, Forward.
Due to "negative edge", this is generally also going to get you the special, as you're really inputting
- Down, Downforward, Punch(Pressed, still holding it down), Forward, (Release Punch).
Getting the Special on Button Release rather than on Button Press, as you had pressed the Button too early.

Now, if you're trying to do the charged variant of Peacock's Item Drop, you have the problem that you keep holding the button, so your input would be
- Down, Downforward*, Punch(Pressed, still holding it down), Forward, (Still holding Punch).
Since you are not releasing the button, negative edging doesn't work, so the game just reads
- "Down.. no button.. Downforward.. Punch! .. Forward.. nothing. Okay, this guy wants a crouching punch!"

*Yes I'm aware that Item Drop is a QCB, but this makes it easier to follow
 
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I see, thank you for the insight. Much appreciated. :)

Seems that using negative edge for a non-charged item drop would fail if the punch button is pressed for a little bit too long, something I have to work on.
 
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thanks guys, now I can manage peacock's airdash :)
I have another question...
I can't found any guide about assists strategy, is there something useful in this way ?
As beginner I use only a character for a match and I suffer the mixups or multicombo due the assists technique that my opponents knows very well.
Any advice ?
i.e.... can I cancel a special move into assist and then chain another combo ?

Any tips will be appreciated :)
 
i find assists fall into three categories. (any one move can possibly be in more than one category at a time, its just how/when you use it)
1) Get off me! : these are the dragon punch types. Updo, napalm pillar, double butt, etc... basically anything that comes out and has invincibility and hits somewhat quickly. you throw these out to interrupt enemy pressure.
2) pressure assists: these assists force the enemy to block and allow you to do mixups. examples, cerecopter, lock n' load, hairball, any multi hitting normal (ms fortune head spin)
3) combo extenders: these are assists that you use in a combo to make it longer/do more damage. often a multi hitting move that will allow you to recover from one move and start a new chain, but also can be things with wall bounces like egret bike.

as far as using assists. you can call an assists at any point when you are not using a special move, using a super, or super jumping. what you can do is call the assist right before you cancel into the special move so it would be out after the special move hits (depends on the special move and the assist...)
with the custom assist machanic you really need to experiment and find what works well for you and how you play, but most of the characters have moves that work a lot better as assists than others. they are a good place to start.
 
- 2nd group is generally labelled as 'lockdown'
- 3rd group of assists are not combo extenders (there is no designated combo extension assist - Pummel Horse would've been one; but in general you just use eg your lockdown assist to continue combos. There's no need for assist extensions in SG anyways) but space control assists such as projectiles (Peacock L.Bomb or take whatever)
- Also possible 4th group would be "Get me in" assists - which generally are projectile assists, but also includes eg Bike and Center Stage
- Also possible 5th group would be mixup assists such as Valentine Throw / Bella Diamond Drop / Peacock c.HP / whatever

On using assists, you can't just call them *right before* doing a special, but actually *at the same time*. Eg you input 236MP~LK and it will do your MP.Fireball and call assist at the same time.

Tips on using assists would be to have a DP one and mash it a lot
 
Quick questions while at work:

1. Can you tech normal throws from opponent's assists? Not command grabs, just the regular LP+LK throw used as an assist.

2. How do you usually approach low/throw mixups? Is it usually an educated guess based on distance/timing and the opponent's previous actions, or something you can actually see with practice?

3. When people say you can't break a throw while crouching, does this mean:

a) the 1LP+L, 2LP+LK, or 3+LP+LK inputs will never break a throw
b) you can only break a throw if the active frames of the throw grabbed your character while they were standing
 
1. Yes

2. Low/Throw is a 50/50. Throws have 7f startup, lows ~the same up till 9. If you can see that, write a PM to DimeX/iLoli/guitalex/other jokers.
- Since the tech window is decently long (13f), you can 'OS' defend against Low/Throw by blocking low for say 15f, then switching to standguard and pressing LP+LK;
- If they tried to c.LK, you were still low blocking (faster startup than 15f); if they tried to throw you you'll tech (tech window still open)
- This requires lots of practice, is not easy at all, NOT foolproof (eg delayed lows will eat it) and nobody who plays SG does this, because everyone is bad.
Other than that, guess. Or just mash DP/Super, that beats both options.

3. How would you be standing if you input 1/2/3+LP+LK? I'm not sure what the difference between the two is supposed to be.
 
IsaVulpes said:
1. Yes

2. Low/Throw is a 50/50. Throws have 7f startup, lows ~the same up till 9. If you can see that, write a PM to DimeX/iLoli/guitalex/other jokers.
- Since the tech window is decently long (13f), you can 'OS' defend against Low/Throw by blocking low for say 15f, then switching to standguard and pressing LP+LK;
- If they tried to c.LK, you were still low blocking (faster startup than 15f); if they tried to throw you you'll tech (tech window still open)
- This requires lots of practice, is not easy at all, NOT foolproof (eg delayed lows will eat it) and nobody who plays SG does this, because everyone is bad.
Other than that, guess. Or just mash DP/Super, that beats both options.

3. How would you be standing if you input 1/2/3+LP+LK? I'm not sure what the difference between the two is supposed to be.

Following up on this, you say the tech window is 13 frames, and that throw start up is 7 frames, does this mean that you can throw tech on reaction if you notice throw startup (since that's 20 frames total and afaik that's reactable)?
 
IsaVulpes said:
1. Yes

2. Low/Throw is a 50/50. Throws have 7f startup, lows ~the same up till 9. If you can see that, write a PM to DimeX/iLoli/guitalex/other jokers.
- Since the tech window is decently long (13f), you can 'OS' defend against Low/Throw by blocking low for say 15f, then switching to standguard and pressing LP+LK;
- If they tried to c.LK, you were still low blocking (faster startup than 15f); if they tried to throw you you'll tech (tech window still open)
- This requires lots of practice, is not easy at all, NOT foolproof (eg delayed lows will eat it) and nobody who plays SG does this, because everyone is bad.
Other than that, guess. Or just mash DP/Super, that beats both options.

3. How would you be standing if you input 1/2/3+LP+LK? I'm not sure what the difference between the two is supposed to be.

Thanks for the answers. That helps clear things up a lot.

On the third question, I was mostly just wondering what the specific limitation is on techs; i.e. I didn't understand if throws initiated while you were crouching simply cannot be teched even if you let go of down and press LP+LK within the tech window. It seems to be the case.

I'll have to look into crouching/standing specifics and be sure I'm not making any assumptions anywhere. Every game seems to be different with regards to how many frames it takes to stand up or crouch. The tip/concept on hedging bets with the OS looks good; I'll try to practice it at length.
 
Throws initiated while you were crouching can be broken as long as you stand up and press LP+LK during the tech window.
The only limitation is that 1/2/3+LP+LK are neither valid Throw, nor valid Throwtech inputs.

@destruction_adv woww~ I'm stupid, yeah.
Uuh, it should be theoretically doable if you're on point, but I can't do it. Not 100% sure why.
Part of this is going to be that Frameskip 6 turns the 21f into 17-18.
Other part of this is going to be that you don't switch guard from Low to Mid, but actually have to press Buttons as well, making it a *LOT* harder
So .. uh.. it should be theoretically possible maybe if you're really really really on point and watch out for nothing other than that 50/50, which ingame translates to "just no".
 
Let's not forget that most character's have small throw motions for startup, so identifying them amidst everything else and then reacting in less than a third of a second isn't going to be something a regular human being can do. Fortunately you can't be thrown when in hitstun, so people have to wait after hitting you before they can throw you; if you notice a longer pause than usual after a move then they're probably going in for a throw. Unless of course that's what they want you to think. Or maybe they're baiting out a flopped pushblock to make you accidentally backdash.

Mind games.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Throws initiated while you were crouching can be broken as long as you stand up and press LP+LK during the tech window.
The only limitation is that 1/2/3+LP+LK are neither valid Throw, nor valid Throwtech inputs.

@destruction_adv woww~ I'm stupid, yeah.
Uuh, it should be theoretically doable if you're on point, but I can't do it. Not 100% sure why.
Part of this is going to be that Frameskip 6 turns the 21f into 17-18.
Other part of this is going to be that you don't switch guard from Low to Mid, but actually have to press Buttons as well, making it a *LOT* harder
So .. uh.. it should be theoretically possible maybe if you're really really really on point and watch out for nothing other than that 50/50, which ingame translates to "just no".
Well, I'm not going to claim I can throw tech on reaction, I just thought it could be done in theory, which I guess it can. However, that throw tech 'OS' you mentioned is looking pretty interesting right now.
 
Hi! I'm a first time poster here, have been playing for a bit, and have a couple of questions.

First, after deciding to read up on some combos for my two faves, ol' soul and filia, I happened upon this guy:

What concerns me is that first one. I promptly set about learning it in training mode until I could do it pretty much 100% of the time. Then I took it online to practice it on real folks. This is where I found my problem. At the part with the c.LK on the ground, after that first j.HK, I could simply not get it to connect so I could launch again, no matter how I tried to time it. Now, I thought that you got one free ground hit where your opponent couldn't ground recover per combo, but they just kept on bouncin' away like some kind of thing that bounces away. Am I missing something? Is it the GGPO frame delay or something? In short, how do I deal with it?

Ok, second question: This one's shorter, I promise!
What's the better way to get a move in edgewise between seemingly endless combos? Is there some kind of cue as to when it's over, or do I just need a general knowledge of all the char's combo structures? I always end up like this:
"Ok, this is a long combo. Better be ready with something of my own when it's over... What? the next one's already 6 moves in?!".

Anywho, those are just a couple of newb questions from someone who should really be better by now.
O///O
Thanks!
 
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To answer the first one, Filia's j.HK knocking the opponent to the ground allows the opponent to recover off of the ground, as indicated by the blue spark. The combo CAN still work if the opponent doesn't recover, but they're probably going to recover.

Second... That's just something you start to learn along the way.
 
DDB said:
To answer the first one, Filia's j.HK knocking the opponent to the ground allows the opponent to recover off of the ground, as indicated by the blue spark. The combo CAN still work if the opponent doesn't recover, but they're probably going to recover.

Second... That's just something you start to learn along the way.

Ahhh... so it's a pointless combo to have learned. Well, I'll research better next time.
And I guess I'll have to continue taking the beatings until I achieve that second one.
Thanks!
 
TheEyeclops said:
What's the better way to get a move in edgewise between seemingly endless combos? Is there some kind of cue as to when it's over, or do I just need a general knowledge of all the char's combo structures? I always end up like this:
"Ok, this is a long combo. Better be ready with something of my own when it's over... What? the next one's already 6 moves in?!".

This is where a lot of the mind games come into play in Skullgirls. What you just described is called a "reset". When someone is combo'ing you, you usually have a few basic options, some of which are:
1) Hold block (either low or high) and wait for the combo to end (either they messed up or they attempted to reset with a normal)
2) Mash something that comes out fast (low startup super, LP, LK, etc) and try to beat out their move
3) Mash throw and try to tech their throw

You use 1) if you think they are going to finish the combo and immediately start another combo with a normal. The down side to this is that you must correctly guess if they are going to hit with a high or low... and that's IF they decide to reset with a normal.
You use 2) if you think you have a low startup move which can beat their choice of resets or if you think they will drop their combo. The down side to this is it is very prone to burst baits.
You use 3) if you think they are going to finish the combo and immediately start another combo with a throw. The down side to this is that if you guess wrong and they do NOT throw you, then you will most likely eat another combo.

The list actually goes on for much longer than this, and the explanations for each of the options can take up sizable posts each. There is no one correct answer, but in summary I suppose DDB's sentiment is right on the mark... after you play this game a bunch, you will start to pick up the subtleties.
 
TheEyeclops said:
Ahhh... so it's a pointless combo to have learned. Well, I'll research better next time.

always set the dummy to ground tech. you wont run into this problem again if you do that.
 
evilben said:
always set the dummy to ground tech. you wont run into this problem again if you do that.

Got it. I'll be sure to do that from now on.

Here's what confuses me: I noticed a few more threads/videos that use that same bit. Why post a combo that can easily be teched by pretty much any player? Do guys just want to make fancy combos that aren't meant for real-life play?
 
You mean like Filia's jHK into hairball?
 
TheEyeclops said:
Here's what confuses me: I noticed a few more threads/videos that use that same bit. Why post a combo that can easily be teched by pretty much any player? Do guys just want to make fancy combos that aren't meant for real-life play?
A lot of these actually work, it heavily depends on character weight, size, height at which you do it, what normals you did before etc whatever.
Eg a very common string is [s.HP > j.HP xx AD, j.LK j.HK > c.LK], which works. Just look out whether you can see a blue bounce or not.

Other reason for this is that everyone is garbage so they think it works.
 
DDB said:
You mean like Filia's jHK into hairball?

I meant j.HK into c.LK, which didn't seem to work in the context of the combos i keep seeing. Interesting, though, I didn't know about j.HK into hairball!

IsaVulpes said:
A lot of these actually work, it heavily depends on character weight, size, height at which you do it, what normals you did before etc whatever.
Eg a very common string is [s.HP > j.HP xx AD, j.LK j.HK > c.LK], which works. Just look out whether you can see a blue bounce or not.

Other reason for this is that everyone is garbage so they think it works.

I'll have to try out that air cancel thing. I think that your last comment there probably sums up my question nicely though! :D
 
Hey is it posible if someone could make a list of the custom assist motions (ex: cerebella runstop, peacock taunt) for players that dont know them to reccur to? I feel it would be really handy.
 
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ok, I'm here again...for another beginner question to Peacock users :)

I love her, really, but it's damn hard to get in with a jump-in hit to perform combos.
Against Parasoul...it's like hell!
Any hit from the umbrella girl beats mine... i think it's a frame list question but I'd like really know what's the best way to enter after a jump.
I think j.MK is good but j.LK is faster.
Any advice ?

Thanks a lot :)
 
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thx Isa, sorry for the specific question...but I supposed it was about beginner thread, lol ;)
 
I've heard some of the better players hating on certain players' doublesnap kill combos.

What are the criteria for good loops off of a doublesnap?

I would assume ease of repetition, damage per iteration, and/or meter gained for the opponent?
 
Meter gained for the opponent - which is pretty much the same as damage per iteration, as he gets a constant meter increase per second that's not affected by anything other than the time it takes you to kill.

I don't care too much about that and just do what I deem easy because I'm too lazy to learn char specific doublesnaps, which would not only increase the likelihood of me dropping them, but also seems like a waste of time given how often I land Doublesnaps in the first place.
But nobody is going to hate on you for putting the work in to learn good snap combos ;)
 
Until they get hit by them themselves. Then they'll seething with rage!
 
its also a good idea to use a non-combo on the trapped assist (do something where they will recover in the air) if i remember right this lessens the meter gain the the red life regen for the opponent.
 
For someone that's never played any of the Versus games, how does one learn/practice counter-calling? Is it generally a guess/read, or something you can reactively do in some situations?

I'm still very unfamiliar with how the timings work out (i.e., can you punish an AA assist by using LnL/Bomber) regarding calling it before/after their call.

Also regarding assist calls: calling an assist doesn't change anything about your point character's states, correct? i.e., you can always call them if there's no lockout or you're not being hit?
 
you cant call an assist during a special or super move or when you are in a super jump state. other than that you can call at anytime you aren't being hit or in block stun.
as far as counter calling, it really depends on what assist your opponent is using and how they are using it. you need to watch out when calling assists because even the invincible ones (hornet bomber, updo, etc) have some vulnerability before the move activates, this means something like hairball will stuff any assist you call in reaction to it.
in general, its something you will learn by playing matchups and experimenting.
 
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