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Beginner Questions Thread

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@EvaXephon Adding onto what Dime_x said, IIRC st.LP can whiff on some crouching characters, but I'd have to make sure.

Also, I use LK solely because it's easier for me to go LK>MK than LP>MK, lol.
 
EvaXephon said:
What's the strategic difference between Filia's light punch and her light kick? Why would you use one instead of the other? They seem to do similar damage, they have similar startup frames, they're active for a similar amount of time, they have similar recovery frames, they have similar hit advantage, they have similar block advantage, and they have similar reach.
Filia s.LP has 5f Startup, is ±0 on block and +3 on hit, has 16f hitstun.
Filia s.LK has 9f Startup, is +4 on block and +7 on hit, has 25f hitstun.

You do have a point for something like Painwheel s./c.LP or s./c.LK, but this example is about the worst you could have chosen. The normals are *super* different.

If you're curious about the general design standpoint of similar normals (such as PW s.LK vs c.LK) rather than the difference between Filia's, ask again :P
 
dama624 said:
@EvaXephon Adding onto what Dime_x said, IIRC st.LP can whiff on some crouching characters, but I'd have to make sure.

Adding to what dama624 said about what Dime_X said.... Filia's st.LK does indeed whiff on Painwheel, while her st.LP does not. As a concrete example, go to training room and attempt this very basic combo on (standing) Parasoul, and then attempt it again on (standing) Painwheel:

st.LP -> st.LP -> st.LK -> st.MK -> st.HP

You will notice that Parasoul will get hit by the full thing, and be launched up into the air. If you try this on Painwheel, the LK will whiff and the combo will drop.

Also, specifically to Skullgirls, having both LP and LK allows you to have longer combos without triggering IPS. For example, you can do a combo chain which starts with LP, and then later on down the road, start another combo chain with starts with LK.

(Oh, and you need both LP and LK to grab... :D )
 
1. Cat heads? What is the best way to defend against this? It seems almost impossible to defend against the cat heads along with the opponent.

2. Resets? How to anticipate these, and defend against them.

3. The devastating hornet bomber assist? The block stun is so long.
 
1. Hit Stop. I have read about it means but I am still unsure if it stacks up to my recovery frames or does it involve my opponent's character somehow too ? If it is the former, I assume it is the only time I can add an input/attack and combo ?

2. Air-Dash-Cancel. Is it possible to launch the opponent's character and perform 2 air-dash-cancels with attacks in between ? Or just 1 possible overall as much as Shoryuken seems to indicate.
 
blufang said:
1. Cat heads? What is the best way to defend against this? It seems almost impossible to defend against the cat heads along with the opponent.
#1 If called raw, they're unsafe and can get punished by a lot of things at a lot of places
#2 Pushblock → Absolute Guard; avoid them touching you (Parasoul MK Egret, Filia LK Airball away, Squigly Superjump Doublejump, etc)

2. Resets? How to anticipate these, and defend against them.
#1 Play a lot to learn the common reset spots of characters (really no way around it)
#2 Reversal/Downback/Cry

3. The devastating hornet bomber assist? The block stun is so long.
It has really bad recovery, so you can always hit it (either normally, or via countercalling an assist), which locks it out.
HK is not invincible and MK not really and LK still shaky so you can also often just beat it out.

Bai said:
1. Hit Stop. I have read about it means but I am still unsure if it stacks up to my recovery frames or does it involve my opponent's character somehow too ? If it is the former, I assume it is the only time I can add an input/attack and combo ?
Hit stop is basically a freeze to give moves more of an impact and provide more time to input specials / etc. Uuuh this is hard to explain. Basically: Ignore it, you don't have to know anything about this.
Unless you mean Hitstop on supers? Aaah I'm too sleepy sorry, I will go through this later. Tag me so I don't forget it or something.

2. Air-Dash-Cancel. Is it possible to launch the opponent's character and perform 2 air-dash-cancels with attacks in between ? Or just 1 possible overall as much as Shoryuken seems to indicate.
If there was a character that could do 2 airdashes from a jump, they could probably also do two ADCs in an airstring. Since there isn't, you can't.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Hit stop is basically a freeze to give moves more of an impact and provide more time to input specials / etc. Uuuh this is hard to explain. Basically: Ignore it, you don't have to know anything about this.
Unless you mean Hitstop on supers? Aaah I'm too sleepy sorry, I will go through this later. Tag me so I don't forget it or something.

Does the freeze only include the own character or both ? I still struggle to fully understand it, haha. Hit Stun and the other things are easily recognizable though.
I am not aware of Hit Stop on Supers. How are they different from Hit Stops on other attacks ?
Thanks so far for the previous answers and thanks for the next ones. :D
 
Bai said:
Does the freeze only include the own character or both ? I still struggle to fully understand it, haha. Hit Stun and the other things are easily recognizable though.
I am not aware of Hit Stop on Supers. How are they different from Hit Stops on other attacks ?
Thanks so far for the previous answers and thanks for the next ones. :D
To simplify, Hit stop just freezes everything. So it creates more time to e.g. react or perform motions. And it adds some visual OOMPH to attacks. But gameplay-wise, you can pretty much just ignore its existence.
 
deice said:
To simplify, Hit stop just freezes everything. So it creates more time to e.g. react or perform motions. And it adds some visual OOMPH to attacks. But game-play-wise, you can pretty much just ignore its existence.

Ah, okay. Thank you.
 
deice said:
To simplify, Hit stop just freezes everything. So it creates more time to e.g. react or perform motions. And it adds some visual OOMPH to attacks. But gameplay-wise, you can pretty much just ignore its existence.

the exception to this is the 8 frame hitstop when doing a super. your super still goes but everything else is frozen. this allows you to do things like cerecopter > diamond dynamo midscreen that did not work in prior versions. but... as has been said.... dont really worry about this too much.
 
evilben said:
the exception to this is the 8 frame hitstop when doing a super. your super still goes but everything else is frozen. this allows you to do things like cerecopter > diamond dynamo midscreen that did not work in prior versions. but... as has been said.... dont really worry about this too much.

Okay, thank you. (I think the Hit Stop frame numbers from the Frame Data Ref from Shoryuken are not mandatory, maybe include the cinematic animation ?)
 
the hit stop from srk is just the hit stop when you connect a move. as said above it just freezes the game and allows for easier chains (and a better look/feel to the game).
it really isnt something you need to worry about because it doesnt really alter how you play and has nothing to do with a move being at an advantage or punishable (because both parties are frozen)
 
That sounds good, I can focus on the other frame numbers then. :D
 
A couple of questions about throws in Skullgirls:

Do the normal throws in SG have multiple active frames or just one?

Does Skullgirls have any automatic throw immunity (as in, not a special property of a particular move, or the airborne state)? Like for example in Vampire Savior any time you are coming out of stun or during wakeup there are several frames where any throw attempt will not work, Victor's 360 will whiff, etc. It's very noticeable in VS because it's on the high end of throw immunity, but lots of fighters have some of it somewhere.

I assume this stuff is somewhere on the internet but I don't know where to look for technical minutiae like this (besides having watched everything Mike Z streams).
 
From Shoryuken:

Normal throws will miss aerial opponents and normal air throws miss opponents on the ground. All normal throws are unblockable, but have start up, active, and recovery frames on whiff like any other move. On hit, a throw starts animation that cannot be interrupted by any other characters or attacks on screen. Both characters in the animation are invincible, even if it is an Ensemble character throwing a point character.

All normal throws will miss opponents while they are in hit stun or block stun, meaning combos into a throw are not possible under most circumstances.
Opponents in a stagger or crumple stun can be hit with a throw as a combo. Characters are vulnerable to throws on the first frame after hit stun or block stun. There are no additional frames of throw invulnerability, but holding up will avoid ground to ground throws that hit on the first frame after the stun.

A typical normal throw has a 7f of start up, stay active for 3f (what Evilben mentioned), and have a tech window ending 6f after the throw hits.

I would recommend looking up the link as I left some information out.
 
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Good lord, 3 active frames and zero throw immunity. No wonder tick throws are so good. Thanks for the link.
 
No problem if it was directed to me. Else nevermind. :D

I have a few new questions now.

1. Can I just jump into the casual lobby matches ?
2. I currently play Valentine but I see the shortcomings of her already despite my own not-so-good performance. I would like to ask what the benefits of playing a Solo character are and what each (solo) character can teach in the long run.
3. In case, my other option becomes my favorable choice. Is Fortune/Valentine still a good choice or do I have to go with a 3rd character to lessen possible weaknesses ?
 
Solo teaches you how to play the character better than trying to learn more than one at once. You learn what the character's strengths and weaknesses are. As for the team? I'd swap Val and Fortune around to where Val's in front. Val loves her some H Fiber Upper assist.
 
DDB said:
Solo teaches you how to play the character better than trying to learn more than one at once. You learn what the character's strengths and weaknesses are. As for the team? I'd swap Val and Fortune around to where Val's in front. Val loves her some H Fiber Upper assist.

So I guess you would recommend to endure the pain as Solo Val ? :D Or maybe switch to Solo Fortune ?
Thanks for the answer before.
 
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obregon said:
Do the normal throws in SG have multiple active frames or just one?
All normal throws have 7f startup, 1f active, 28f recovery.

SDE had differing throws per character (eg Bella: 9f Startup, 5f active, 30 recovery) but it got standardized to the numbers mentioned above with the switch to SQG.

Be wary with info from the Wiki, it is partly outdated.

Does Skullgirls have any automatic throw immunity (as in, not a special property of a particular move, or the airborne state)? Like for example in Vampire Savior any time you are coming out of stun or during wakeup there are several frames where any throw attempt will not work, Victor's 360 will whiff, etc. It's very noticeable in VS because it's on the high end of throw immunity, but lots of fighters have some of it somewhere.
No

Bai said:
1. Can I just jump into the casual lobby matches ?
I have no idea what this question is supposed to mean

2. I currently play Valentine but I see the shortcomings of her already despite my own not-so-good performance.
At low level, anything goes. Tiers are meaningless, just play.

To put it simplest,
Char A, when played at 100%, has a strength of 1000.
Char B, when played at 100%, has a strength of 900.

Now, if you're a top player who plays a character to its full potential, this is a 100 Pt difference.

However, if you're new and only play 10% of a character, A would be at 100, B at 90 - just 10 Points.
Rather than switching chars, you could just learn more about your char, so you play 11% of your character instead. Boom, you're at 99 Strength which is basically the same as A.

On top of this, many chars have shortcomings which are far less pronounced at lower levels (say you only got unsafe blockstrings - at low level people don't punish, so it doesn't matter), or upsides which are difficult to utilize (eg Parasoul Tear tosses are really good but few people use them properly).
This means that while eg Solo Val is a shit 'team' at high levels of play, she may very well be good where you are at (people's offense is blockable so you're less reliant on a DP, and she has really good mobility+buttons as well as easy beginner combos, which gives you plenty success very fast).

I would like to ask what the benefits of playing a Solo character are and what each (solo) character can teach in the long run.
Solos teach you how to properly play neutral, defense, offense, etc etc rather than relying on assists to carry you.
Say you play Val+Filia. Updo saves you all the time. Opponent picks up on that, and the first time he touches you, he snaps in your Filia.
What do you do after Filia is dead and Val -now Solo- comes in, drop the stick?

You have to be able to play all your characters on your team as solos anyways, so you may as well start out practicing your chars solo.
In fact, if you plan to add a 2nd char (say, Fortune), rather than doing so I'd advise you to first practice playing Solo Fortune, and only to switch to the Duo after you have learned her to an extent.

3. In case, my other option becomes my favorable choice. Is Fortune/Valentine still a good choice or do I have to go with a 3rd character to lessen possible weaknesses ?
Again, anything goes
Trios are better than Duos. Solos are weaker than that.
However, Duos and Solos were FAR weaker in SDE than they are now. .. and KhaosMuffins got 4th place at EVO with Solo Fortune.
The game is balanced enough that you can run suboptimal teams to good success.
 
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Thank you for the answer, IsaVulpes.
The question about casual lobby matches is just to be sure that I can hop into one without any worries.
That the casual matches I sometimes see in the lobby list are all open for everyone.
 
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i mean, the only thing to worry about is running into someone who is really good and just stomps all over you. but even that can be very educational.
 
Yes, join. What's supposed to happen? Worst case you get kicked after one match and join another Lobby.
Casual generally means "anything goes", so.. anything goes.

(P.S. It's amazing how many people get my nick wrong~)
 
@IsaVulpes

For throw immunity:

Can't airthrow a grounded opponent or ground throw an airborn opponent.

Also, can't throw an opponent in hit stun.

Or is that not what OP meant (I'm not familiar with Vampire Saviour)?
 
@ IsaVulpes
Sorry, I corrected it! :D
@ Evilben
I went into quick matches yesterday and got my ass kicked but I learned stuff. It is hard but it is a good experience to improve on.

In case of Quikc Matches: Is there a MMR for Quick matches ? Or is the search to an extent random ?
 
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Playing Valentine/Parasoul and trying to choose between HP napalm shot or napalm pillar for my assist. I WANT to use napalm shot to help keep up Valentine's pressure, but having something like napalm pillar available and not using it seems dumb. What do you think?
 
Experiment and see which one feels better. You should try working on both and change for matchups. I'd probably want shot against peacock and double, and maybe parasoul, and pillar against rushdown.

Just as well, pillar can also be used to keep up pressure as well, just not as effectively. Don't keep yourself in the mindset that moves only have one purpose.
 
80% Lean said:
How do I know which side the next enemy team member will pop out when the current team member dies?
It's the opposite side of the downed body.. So the downed body is always sandwiched by the killing team and the coming in member.
 
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Questions about combo system:

How does damage scale ? I heard it is after every 3rd hit until the lowest % (27 % or 20 %) is reached. This means 4th, 7th, etc. ? Is it also 12,5 % less after each hit ? (I exclude special scales a la Blockbuster and Throw here)

IPS is triggered past stage 5 by a new ground/air combo attack at the same position as before ? (Like jMP being the second attack in a new air combo again)
 
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How is meter calculated? I had two combos where one did more damage than the other, but the one with less damage actually ended up giving me more meter and I was curious as to why?
 
Bai said:
Questions about combo system:

How does damage scale ? I heard it is after every 3rd hit until the lowest % (27 % or 20 %) is reached. This means 4th, 7th, etc. ? Is it also 12,5 % less after each hit ? (I exclude special scales a la Blockbuster and Throw here)
The first 3 hits are at 100%.
After that, every hit gets scaled down to 87.5% per hit

So 3rd hit: 87.5%
4th hit: 87.5% of 87.5% (76.56%)
5th hit: 87.5% of 76.56% (66.99%)
etc

This goes down until 27.5% for Moves with 1000+ damage (so a 1000 Damage move will at worst deal 275)
And down to 20% for Moves with less than 1000 damage (so a 900 Damage move will at worst deal 180)

Level3 Supers only get scaled down to 45%
Level5 Supers only get scaled down to 55%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtQ_t4ERdHBLdHpOU0JRd2tSekt1ZVdzSHc3LUdtUWc#gid=0 worldjem made a thing

IPS is triggered past stage 5 by a new ground/air combo attack at the same position as before ? (Like jMP being the second attack in a new air combo again)
IPS is triggered past Stage5 if you *START A CHAIN* with a normal that you already used in Stage3 or beyond *ANYWHERE*.

j.LK > j.HP,
j.LP > j.HP
j.MK > j.HP,
= You used j.HP three times, but the chain starter was a different one each time (first j.LK, then j.LP, then j.MK) = Fine

j.LK > j.HK,
j.LP > j.MP,
j.LK > j.HP
= You used the same chain starter twice (2x j.LK) = Bust

j.LK > j.MK,
j.LP > j.MP,
j.MK > j.HP
= You used j.MK (as the 2nd normal after j.LK), then later tried to start a chain with it = Bust

Bonus notion: Stand and Crouch count as the same normal for this (using s.HP locks out using c.HP as a chainstarter), and command normals count as the same as where they're done (Parasoul j.b.LK is going to lock out her j.LK, Parasoul c.MP is also locking out her s.f.MP)

80% Lean said:
How is meter calculated? I had two combos where one did more damage than the other, but the one with less damage actually ended up giving me more meter and I was curious as to why?
Metergain is attributed per special/normal done, doesn't have anything to do with the damage. Some normals gain a lot of meter while not doing a lot of damage, others are the other way round.
It's ultimately roughly equal for most things you can do though, as you use up all your normals anyways, so don't worry about it too much.
 
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Yep, you can scroll down and set the select button to be dummy record/playback. I think its set on save state by default. After you set it that way hitting select once gives you control of the dummy, twice starts recording, third ends it, and every time after that will play back. Just hold select until it flashes if you want to clear the recording.
 
Put 'Select Button' either to "Record/Playback" or to "Both"
Set 'Dummy Playback' to "Repeat"

Press Select, Record what you want the Dummy to do (if you chose 'Both' earlier, you have to press Select a 2nd time - Recording happens when you see the red dot on the right), Press Select.
 
Why is the ADC so hard to perform?
It made me crazy using Peacock, after j.LP->j.MP-> ADC fails !!

:(
 
The beginning of peacock's airdash has no momentum at first, so you have to wait a bit for it to happen.
 
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