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bella combo factory and training dumbness mansion

oh.
I guessed I failed the timing pretty hard when i tested it then. woops.
 
WARNING : The news below is unexpected, shocking and ominous.
Here is some empty lines to help you prepare yourself.















































jpn.gif

I'm going to Japan from the 3rd of April to the 3rd of July!
Gonna learn japanese.
Gonna giv'em da bella.

Sorry USA, isn't your turn yet.

Fight me while you can, EU people!
 
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WHY

Why can't I stop trying when every indicator tells me full skipping Marie is impossible with Bella?!

Why is there always a sliver of hope left...why is it enough for me to keep going...
 
aaaaanyway :
I optimised further what I call the "setup" combo. (all of this is retail btw)
j.lk j.mp j.hp
j.lp j.mp j.hk
j.mp j.hk
s.hp RS
j.lk j.mp j.hp
j.lp j.lk j.mk j.hp
Adding 50 damage to it disallow any restun. didn't find the way to add 25 damage.


So here is the situation.

Uber combo :
j.lk j.mp j.hk
j.lp j.lk j.mp j.hp
(stun on j.lp, start of combo)
s.lpx2 s.mp c.hp
j.hp j.hp
c.hp
short jump cancel j.mp j.mk j.hp
s.mk s.hp RS
j.lk j.mp j.hk
s.hk RS
s.lpx2 s.mk s.hp RS
j.lp j.lk j.mp j.hp
s.mp (reach phase 3 health limit) s.hp RS
s.lk s.hp deflector (shockwave) dynamo

That was the combo I did first my first tries ("I hate everyone" pic at the end of last page). Didn't do enough damage, about the damage of a full retail copter.

I later did :
...
j.lp j.lk j.mp j.hp
s.lk s.mk s.hk deflector
the idea was that on the previous combo, the 3rd phase transition health limit was reached on the first s.mp s.hp.
Reaching the transition limit leaves you 78f before the shockwave hits you, hitstop included (this was verified in various situations, with various attacks).
with this last combo, my hope was that the limit was reached on the first hit of s.hk, and then if you timed the deflector right, you could deflect the shockwave, as s.hk animation is a bit lengthy. Then I could try linking s.mp after the deflector.
Problem is, the deflector needs to be done as late as possible. Data seems to say it is at best a 2-3f link, if it is possible at all. Having no means to train it and being at the end of a really hard combo, with a s.mp link afterwards that I still don't know if it is possible, this "solution" isn't worth going for.

Another hope I had came from the massive damage on titan knuckle copter dynamo. Fun fact is, if the limit is reached on titan knuckle, you just have time to full copter, and the invincibility from dynamo will dodge the shockwave.
After comparing the damage dealt by this and the most precise pic I had of the transition health limit (comparison being done by comparing Marie's health bars before/after combo, I don't have more precise means), I can say without a doubt that even though my idea seemed good, the damage just isn't enough.
Another hope came from the "2 hit combo" damage bonus. But getting this bonus means dealing less damage in the setup combo. Getting a 3 hit combo means dealing even less, and also requires a different combo from the uber one, way less optimized and damaging. Besides, the damage bonus is way smaller than what I expected. In general, it meant no upgrade for the uber combo.
Another idea was to couple the 2 hit combo with the titan knuckle copter dynamo finisher thingy. Unfortunately, data says it's better but definitely not enough.

So here's my last hope today :
further optimized setup combo + further optimmized uber combo :
j.lk j.mp j.hp
j.lp j.mp j.hk
j.mp j.hk
s.hp RS
j.lk j.mp j.hp
j.lp j.lk j.mk j.hp

j.lk j.mp j.hk (j.hk is a must, j.hp is too slow to allow a restun)
j.lp j.lk j.mk j.hp
(stun on j.lp, start of combo)
s.lpx2 s.mp c.hp
j.hp j.hp
c.hp
short jump cancel j.mp j.mk j.hp
s.mk s.hp RS
j.lk j.mp j.hk
s.hk run stop
s.lpx2 s.mk s.hp run stop
j.lp j.lk j.mk j.hp
s.lk s.mk s.hk deflector
s.mp titan knuckle copter dynamo

s.hp deals 1000 damage. By doing this combo+setup, I add 925 damage before getting to the transition. What I hope (and this time probability is on my side) is that this damage bonus will make me reach the limit on the last s.mk, which will make deflecting after s.hk super easy. From my further experiments trying to make my previous hopes work, I know that adding 475 isn't enough to make the shift, so I can't get rid of the s.lk in the chain before the deflector.
So, even if the first part has a high chance to work (only a 7.5% chance to fail! That's the best result from the beginning...), I'll still have to do that s.mp link...if it is even possible. But as soon as I'll get to do it, I'll be able to know if it is. And maybe I'll find some weird tech to slightly get further from Marie before the deflector, which will add some frames to the link as this means more travel time for the deflector gem before stopping to hit Marie (it hits her during every frame in contact with her hurtbox).

Hope.
 
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dragonos451 said:
Trip

The greatest/ fastest way to learn Japanese is to play Go Go~ Nippon~ My First Trip To Japan. It's on steam and it's super cheep right now. Teaching you about Japanese Language and Culture and best of all how to get hot Japanese Girls. But no all joking aside have fun in Japan, Tokyo is amazing even if it is crowded and remember to bring back tons of souvenirs.
 
Ninja said:
The greatest/ fastest way to learn Japanese is to play Go Go~ Nippon~ My First Trip To Japan. It's on steam and it's super cheep right now. Teaching you about Japanese Language and Culture and best of all how to get hot Japanese Girls. But no all joking aside have fun in Japan, Tokyo is amazing even if it is crowded and remember to bring back tons of souvenirs.
You won't get me with that kind of joke :p

CaioLugon said:
Man you better get this
If I don't get it with Bella, I'll get it easy with robo-fortune.
Da multihits too strong vs Marie.

But I REALLY want it with Bella.
 
okay okay you got me... but seriously get souvenirs from your trip. When I went to Japan I got some Maneki Neko Charms. a cute little black one, a white one that hangs off of my door, and a gold one that seconds as a piggy bank.
 
So I just played 30-and-something rounds against peck.
...
I autopilot on a highway to hell.
And my execution sucks.
Yeah. Really. it really does. Hard. And smelly. wait uh...

I can't reversal ever. If something goes out, it's a completely different move.
Even though there's no lag between me and peck, I can't count how many times I thought "hey I guarded that", so it seems I can't tell what is a direction.
I suck so hard at it I still manage to get hit out of upback as much as in retail. While my opponent is airborne calling a lock'n'load assist...where's the low in that?!

I don't know how to reset anymore. Now when I combo someone, I just don't know what to do.

And for the funniest part :
I suck at run stops.
There are 3 run stop links in my marie full skip. I almost never fail them.
And online I can't even input the run correctly and I get s.hk.

Everyday I play, I have the feeling I played better the day before.

I can't stay in training mode, I get...bored?!
What is wrong with me...

All this isn't even Marie's fault. I only fight her 3 days a week during the afternoon.





why
 
dragonos451 said:
only a 7.5% chance to fail!
And yet I still lost my bet.

All my respect to Marie. She's stronger than my Bella science.

That's all, folks.
 
welp, let's go back to working on gemology.
 
One.
One last try. One last idea.

I don't know if I should ask Marie to leave my head or to stay in at all cost.

EDIT : Thanks @Night Phyre , this is excellent for training :
 
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It sounds like you could use a break. She won't get out of your head, but you can still take your mind off her. Maybe take careful notes so you can jump back in, but once that's nicely summarized, let the ideas simmer for a bit. Relax, have fun in Japan. Come back to it later when you have a "Eureka" moment. Maybe see what other speedrunners have done and if it's at all applicable.

Plus, who knows, Bella might have gotten a buff by the time you get back.
Buff SoloBella? Yeah, that'll happen. Sure...
 
The Dave said:
It sounds like you could use a break.
No.

She won't get out of your head, but you can still take your mind off her.
That's what I do every day, every hour when I don't want to fight her. But what can I do when I think about her before I sleep?

Maybe take careful notes so you can jump back in
What do you think I do every time I find something?

but once that's nicely summarized, let the ideas simmer for a bit.
I call that "sleeping". Works very well, so well I get new ideas every two days.

Relax, have fun in Japan.
I won't wait for after Japan for that. No way. Actually, Japan is my deadline for Marie, I won't be willing to fight her after it.

Come back to it later when you have a "Eureka" moment.
I had 8 of them for now. I have another one every week.

Maybe see what other speedrunners have done and if it's at all applicable.
Who are you talking about?! The speedrun thread is dead and nobody ever fights Marie. Dokurider maybe still does, sure, but what he does is totally unrelated to what I'm trying to do.
 
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Sorry, I misread the situation and got the impression you were frustrated, tired, and out of ideas. Since that's not the case, you seem to know what you're doing.

dragonos451 said:
But what can I do when I think about her before I sleep?

I find sending text messages to my email address to be rather helpful for that sort of thing. There's also Google Drive, if you want to jot something down onto just one document. Hell, even a physical note pad can remind you later...

RE Speedrunning, I had a thought that seeing what people did in other games might give you more ideas... though apparently that's not necessary, so never mind.

Also, I thought Japan would be right away, so it could work as one or two weeks to let your subconscious do its subconscious thing. Whoops.

You know your timeline and resources; sounds like you've got it covered. Best of luck!
 
Mmmh, I forgot how fun it is to find resets.
Corner light resets compilation is officially an on-going project.
You won't guard these ones, I can tell you.

EDIT : aw, it would have made a perfect stream opportunity...thought about it a bit too late :^/
 
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Marie full skip is proven possible.

I just need to do a titan knuckle run stop link on Marie.

It's even possible in the beta.

I just need to do 2 titan knuckle run stop links.

Fun.

EDIT : uh...I don't know what I smoked. I was sure that TK RS j.lp link was a thing on Marie, I thought I tested it, and I can't do it right now. What.
Full skip should still be possible in retail. But I'm gonna have to switch a s.lk with a c.lk.
I feel like that 75 damage drop will bite me hard.

EDIT 2 : okay, full skip should be possible without any titan knuckle run stop bullshit.
Should.
 
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lol, uh, I wasn't expecting the health limit shockwave to be THAT small...
My setup makes me hit Marie with the physical hit of the deflector, but without deflecting the shockwave...it doesn't even reach the deflector's hurtbox...
Sometimes, I wonder what mike was thinking.
Sometimes, I wonder why I feel like every worthless detail is always the reason I fail.

Anywaaaayy, I still have something I can do. Too bad for the swaggy s.hp run stop jump back j.lp j.lk j.mp land dash s.mk s.hk deflector.

EDIT : successful deflect into copter link at point blank doesn't work but 2-3 frames.
I still have something left to try.

EDIT 2 : swithing s.mk with s.mp seems to work. Now to get the links.
 
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I'm not even mad.
im not even mad.jpg
I still have another idea.
If it works, it won't be a perfect, but I can't complain at that point.
 
j.lk j.mp j.hk
j.lp j.lk j.mp j.hp
(stun on j.lp, start of combo)
s.lpx2 s.mp c.hp
j.hp j.hp
c.hp
short jump cancel j.mp j.mk j.hp
s.mp s.hp RS
j.lk j.mp j.hk
s.hk RS
s.lpx2 s.mp titan knuckle RS
c.lk s.mp s.hp RS
jump back j.lp j.lk j.mp
micro dash s.mk titan knuckle copter dynamo
--> Shockwave should happen during copter startup and possibly whiff.
If it works, full skip is guaranteed.
If it works.
And if I manage to pull out the titan knuckle RS c.lk link.


Other possibility :
s.lp s.mp s.hp RS
s.lk s.mp s.hp RS
jump back j.lp j.lk j.mp j.hp (hold)
s.mk TK copter dynamo
--> links are easier, but I'm not sure I'll end up far enough for the shockwave to whiff.
EDIT : I do not
 
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some may have missed it, but a few weeks ago, squigly's beta lvl3 changed. Better tracking, speed and stuff.
So I'm back to square one for gemology.

Streaming right now the combo crafting for new gemology.
http://www.hitbox.tv/dragonos451
 
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projects status :

• gemology :
- 11 dynamo challenge : DEAD
- run stop combos making the lvl3 whiff multiple times : DEAD
- practicle meterless combos that counter lvl3 without taking a single point of damage : DEAD
- in general, combos that counter squigly lvl3 without requiring diamonds are forever : DEAD
General gemology status : RIP

• Nightmare Marie full skip :
- setup allowing the shockwave to whiff during copter startup : NOPE
- linking copter after successfull deflect : NOPE
- combo doing enough damage in general : NOPE
- motivation : DEAD
General nightmare marie full skip : RIP
My fun is dead.
What am I supposed to do now?
Work on practicle/actually useful stuff?
 
Pffff, and I only recorded one and a half of my anti squigly combos. The half not being a combo, just a stupid idea.
I don't even have the midscreen practicle combo recorded.
Just notes. Text. Despair.
 
Funny that the most likes I ever got on a post in this forum is for a combo video that will never exist.
Or maybe it's sad.
I don't know.

...

Someone give me back my interest for normal stuff please.
 
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just so you guys know what the world missed with the update on squilgy's beta lvl3 (and because of my own stupidity, not recording stuff when I could) :
• My master piece, reliable, doable midscreen without any spacing specficism, you don't get a single point of damage :
j.hk c.mp TK deflector (crouch)
dash deflector (-80)
s.hp deflector (-30)
dash c.mp deflector (10)
s.mk deflector (50)
H LnL dynamo (70)
s.lk c.mk kanchou (125)
DH (145)
j.lp j.hp (190)
j.lk j.hp (235)
s.lp s.mp s.hk copter dynamo

10925 damage 1v1

• the 11 dynamo combo : (each dynamos at the beginning get counter'd by the lvl 3, but only get hit once, so you can juggle on squigly)
j.hk c.mp c.hp delay dynamo
dynamo
s.mp dynamo
dynamo
dynamo
dynamo
dynamo
devil horns whiff cancel dynamo (if no DH, squig is too high for dynamo to hit her before the last hit of lvl 3 counters bella)
then juggle dynamo
OTG c.hk DH (-30)
s.lk c.mk DH (25)
j.mp j.hk (75)
s.hp PH (125)
j.lk j.hp (170)
s.lp s.hk assist call copter (235)
dynamo
charged M item drop assist comes down
juggle H LnL (input when squig at max height,
starting to go down)
LVL3
dynamo

• another thing using dynamos :
midscreen
j.hk c.mp c.hp deflector (whiff) dynamo
dash deflector (you can't imagine how cool it looks)
c.mp deflector
forward walk s.mk deflector
(lvl3 annihilated)
(undizzy = 0!)
super jump forward j.hk
s.hp kanchou (80)
s.lk c.mk DH (135)
j.mp j.hk
s.hk copter dynamo (235)
c.lp c.mp TK copter dynamo

the only stuff I recorded because I'm a moron :

• some unfinished stuff :
multiple moves combos :
CORNER :
j.hk c.mk delay kanchou
DOWN BACK (no walking back)
(the joy of lvl3 path manipulation...)
s.mp kanchou (-60) dynamo
deflector (-40)
s.mk deflector (annihilates 3 hits)(0)
(3 hits left)
• c.hp deflector (no whiff) dynamo(?)
dynamo (lvl3 end)
s.lpx2 s.mp s.hp copter dynamo (135)
s.lk c.hp (180)


• squig lvl3 dhc para lvl3 midscreen (the reason why I didn't start recording, that shit wasn't fully crafted yet...)
MIDSCREEN :
- deflectorx2 (-25) (frame perfect)
j.hk deflector (25)
s.hp deflector (75)
dash c.mp deflector (115)
s.mk deflector (155)(1hit remain)
dash c.lp c.mp deflector (210)
j.mp (230)
c.lk c.mp s.hk copter dynamo

- deflectorx2 (-25)
STAY STILL deflector (-5)
duck s.hk (only 2nd hit connects)
deflector (45)
dash c.mp deflector (85)
s.hp deflector (135)
dash c.lk c.mp deflector (190)
s.mk deflector (230)
dash s.lp s.mp s.hk copter dynamo

- deflector lvl3 (as fast as possible)
(not fast enough, lvl3 will hit bella)
crouch wait
dash c.hk deflector (50)
s.hp deflector (100)
dash c.mp deflector (140)
s.mk deflector (180) (lvl3 is annihilated)
j.mp j.hp (230)
c.lk c.mp s.hk copter dynamo

CORNER :
deflector x2 (-25)

- j.mp deflector (15)
instant s.hp deflector (65)
c.mp deflector (105)
s.mk deflector (145)
s.hkx1 deflector (195)
s.lp deflector (230)
s.lk deflector mgr deflector burst

- stand still deflector (-5)
crouch wait s.hk deflector (45)
walk back s.hp wait deflector (95)
instant s.mk deflector (135)
(1 hit left)
c.mp deflector (175)
(kills every hit)
dash c.lp c.mp copter (230) dynamo
s.lk c.mk TK copter dynamo
11000 (1v2)
Now pray with me, peasants, for the souls of unrecorded combos that will never see the lights of this world, that will never taste the fame they deserved, the glorious destiny promised to them.
And curse the moron who didn't record them...
Amen.
 
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Reminding you people that tomorrow I'll be heading to Japan (Tokyo) for 3 months.
I'm glad that I found the inspiration to make a video beforehand (here for those who missed it), but being in Japan won't prevent me from doing more vids anyway.

I'll make sure to record matches against asian players. Someone please make me a list of notable ones in case I forget any.
 
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For sure play matches against Baiken. Also if you are there at the same time Shin At Proof is visiting there you guys should play locally as well.
 
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Baiken Heisahoge Namasomi Magicman and of course our very own @Izzmo!
Enjoy your trip to the land of the rising sun, and always remember: Anime is wrong!

E: ClarenceMonster: Oh, ?-Fairy! as well. Though the ? Might just be a jap character instead
 
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Fought KST (the one who made the Big Band trumpet TAS? dunno, couldn't add him) for 76 rounds, ended 40-36 for him (who doesn't add his opponent after a score like that?!).
And that was terrifying.
He played : solobella
painwheel (L pinion)/squigly (c.hp)
parasoul (pillar)/filia (hairball)
double (L butt)/fukua (H drill)
peacock (plane)/cerebella (H LnL)
AND HE PLAYED EVERY CHARACTER AS WELL AS THE OTHER ONES WTF IS THIS GUY.
Basically, I would beat all his characters 1v1 something like 10-8 probably, but his use of team mechanics makes him beat me hard for a few rounds, then when I finally manage to adapt a bit to the new team it's sorta equivalent (still feels like he was winning).

Notes for myself : - I SUCK at adapting.
- I especially SUCK at guarding teleport + assist from peacock or double, even when it's done everytime at the same time and without mixing ever... (btw I found very bullshit that pushblocking double won't prevent her to cross up with flesh step)
- Parasoul air normals annihilates me, I feel a bit hopeless.
- I felt like he was playing with me like a puppet. His assist use as parasoul reduced my options so much I was very often in high disadvantage, and all my options left resulted in counters or him getting in. Even if it failed, I felt like I was just gaining some ground before he calls again and make me lose the ground I had.
- painwheel + squigly c.hp assist is a pain train. Just adapting to garding low when painwheel is flying high feels mind melting.

He didn't use stuff to flashy, but never dropped ever. He knows his neutral is superior so he often choose to finish his combos when he couldn't reset safely with an assist call that would beat reversal or allow him to guard. All his reversals were made only when he could make them safe with meter.

If all Japan is like that, it definitely won't be a cake walk.

Will try to upload some of it by tomorrow.
 
Beta replays are all messed up on the last rounds, so no double/fukua or peacock/bella. Which is good because that way you people won't cringe seeing how free I am to teleports + assist.
 
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maybe I should have precised that I'd enjoy getting some advices/opinions about these matches ^
 
Okay watched the KST videos, they didn't seem too bad but I guess you wanted feedback anyways so I'll try.

Bella Mirror Portion - You took most of the games here so there's not much to really point out. The only thing that seemed to trip you up multiple times was that he kept trying to end blockstrings with Cerecopter. Not sure if he was just messing up an H LnL or just trying to read you always doing LnL, but regardless he was getting away with it and I didn't see you punish it much even on chicken block. I sort of skipped the last couple of matches so I dunno if you got good punishes later to stop him but if not thats something to consider.

PW/SQ - This section, honestly, looked less like he was outplaying you and more like you just hadn't had any experience against both Painwheel or low assists (and them in combination). I dunno how to give advice on it since, in my experience, it's basically just one of those setups that catches you since you aren't familiar with blocking it yet (like is usually the case with low/overhead assists). It'll help just training mode blocking the different setups, but for the most part the blocking will just come with experience. His SQ was no problem for you, and the only thing to note was that you probably should've tried to be a tiny bit more aggressive in swatting out Painwheel. The MU is already hard for bella imo, but Bella has great air buttons like jHK and jMP that cover so much area that (if you're being aggressive) can annoy PW flight. It seemed like you had the patience down, but that when you jumped it was never to try to actually control air space. Its especially notable since it seemed like almost all of your jMP's actually hit him Air-to-Air but even then you still never were aggressive with the air buttons afterwards. Once you win an air battle like that, you need to see that you controlled the air space effectively and have to keep doing it ESP against PW who'll usually try to fly everywhere. If you were getting CH out of the air a bunch I would understand hesitation, but I don't think of any of the times you got opened up it was from an air-to-air attempt.

tl;dr - Against PW, you for some reason weren't going for your Air buttons to control PW's air space despite the times you did so proving very effective.

Para/Filia - First off, you got hit by nearly every cLK bHK. I don't think any EU parasouls really abuse it as much as US ones do, but even still it's a very strong option that you need to learn to recognize and deal with. You especially need to recognize when it hits you and think "Okay, if he's going to do that, maybe he'll keep doing it", since that's usually the case with Parasouls and is exactly what happened here. In general, he went for like 2 or 3 low confirms out of the entire set, and everything else was an overhead or counterhit which you could've upbacked to block. Against a parasoul, it's very important to realize how it is they are confirming their hits against you and to respond appropriately. If you get opened up by bHK, Upback or high block until they start fully committing to low confirms. Once they start actually going for lots of low confirms is when things get interesting, but most of the time it never gets to that part, so keep it in mind.

The other part is that it was clear that he was mashing a lot, especially in the same situations. Sometimes you tried to bait but often it messed up, and looking back at the footage there was a certain setup that he mashed gregor on you and it landed 100% of the time. That's the kind of thing that you need to recognize midset and adapt to: see where you confirm or setup isn't working and either adjust it to catch or go for a different approach.

I dunno anything about Filia and bella neutral, but I will say that you didn't really have a lot of air control in the Para/Bella MU. Hairball assist is okay for parasoul, but it only covers the ground, which doesn't have to affect bella that much since Bella can still compete with air buttons. In terms of how to combat parasoul air normals, usually winning any air-to-air game is a process of trying to get into the air first and pressing your button first, and I can say for certain from that set that the parasoul had no ground game/approach anyways (which is fine since he had hairball). So it was clear he would have to keep going for either jump back jHPs or jump forward air grabs/jLPs, which can be tough to deal with but is certainly possible for bella, and I think I even saw you try for jMKs which definitely works. If there was any aspect to training mode practice on, it would definitely by this part.

I dunno how helpful this was, but I hope there was something of use in there.
 
fenster said:
stuff
About bella vs bella, yeah, at the end I punished it, but I took way too long to adapt, that's for sure. It's something so...stupid and illogical that at first I thought he was joking doing it, and then I tried and failed a few things to punish it. At the end I just blocked and punished with c.mp or mgr. (Didn't watch again the match, but that's what my memory tells me)

About PW/squigly, I indeed had no experience in that kind of shitty matchup.I wasn't very aggressive because...well it's not my kind of playstyle (I play bella, damn it), and also...PW scares the shit out of me...
I'm happy that I looked patient, because that's basically what I worked on these last months. I don't have enough experience in the PW + assist matchup to be confident when going aggressive. Sets from earlier months showed that not being patient was getting me killed. So I agree that I could have been more aggressive, but I just don't feel ready for that. My jump ins that connected seemed efficient, and I didn't get counterhit much, but I don't see how it shows I SHOULD have done it MORE. The air normals I used were those I was sure of when doing them. So I guess I won't try being more aggressive. I feel better playing that way. I understand there were probably a lot of situations where attacking would have been a good idea. But with experience, I'll see them better and go for it when I notice them.
I didn't watch again that part either, but that's how I remember it. I'll probably watch it again tomorrow.

Parasoul/filia :
• Yeah, I failed A LOT of punishes on his raw tags. Many fuck ups, and also a few times where I went for a punish that I thought would have worked but whiffed completely.
fenster said:
The other part is that it was clear that he was mashing a lot, especially in the same situations. Sometimes you tried to bait but often it messed up, and looking back at the footage there was a certain setup that he mashed gregor
Though I can't really agree with that statement. I baited his raw tags A LOT. I don't know what that "sometimes" is for. I couldn't find that "setup" where he mashed gregor and hit me everytime, I varied my resets well and I didn't notice getting hit several times out of the same reset...Hell, he mashed gregor very rarely! Most times it was when I was at zero health, and I simply failed my combo!

• About c.lk b.hk :
*reads*
*raises an eyebrow*
*starts watching the set*
10:00 "I guess he meant later on"
25:00 "hmm, I suppose it was at the end, when I was getting a bit tired"
43:33 "..."

Did we watch the same set?!

He did c.lk b.hk 3times in the entire set. They hit, but 3 times in 40 minutes of play doesn't sound too much of a problem.
The rest of the time (like, ALL the rest) : c.lk c.mk b.hk, 90% of the time pushblocked into absolute guard, 5% pbgc'd into happy birthday super, 5% failed absolute guard/pushblock timing/pbgc timing.
What the actual fuck?

fenster said:
I dunno anything about Filia and bella neutral, but I will say that you didn't really have a lot of air control in the Para/Bella MU. Hairball assist is okay for parasoul, but it only covers the ground, which doesn't have to affect bella that much since Bella can still compete with air buttons. In terms of how to combat parasoul air normals, usually winning any air-to-air game is a process of trying to get into the air first and pressing your button first, and I can say for certain from that set that the parasoul had no ground game/approach anyways (which is fine since he had hairball). So it was clear he would have to keep going for either jump back jHPs or jump forward air grabs/jLPs, which can be tough to deal with but is certainly possible for bella, and I think I even saw you try for jMKs which definitely works. If there was any aspect to training mode practice on, it would definitely by this part.
I have a lot of problems with these statements.
I have yet to find the way to compete with para j.lp, the ground is covered by hairball as you said, and jumping meant either doing it early, before an assist call, but that means para doesn't give a fuck, calls assist and block, so all I can do is empty jump guard or get hit by the assist, or I jump later, and I'm under j.lp ruling :^/

So, his assist didn't give me that much trouble. I got hit a lot because of pushblock fails and some stupid movements, I fell for many assist punish baits, but except that, as all he got from that is either a little bit of damage or free pressure that I guarded most of the time, I didn't get that much the urge of competing air-to-air.
And I don't really see how to compete in the air against an assisted parasoul...Even after watching the set, I don't recall getting j.MKs and I don't see really how much that would have helped anyway (j.mk isn't very efficient against para and doesn't lead to anything interesting).

I'd rather work on my spacing and learn to counter the assist better.


I'm a bit confused after all that.
 
dragonos451 said:
• About c.lk b.hk :
*reads*
*raises an eyebrow*
*starts watching the set*
10:00 "I guess he meant later on"
25:00 "hmm, I suppose it was at the end, when I was getting a bit tired"
43:33 "..."

Did we watch the same set?!

I mean I can watch the entire set again and count them, but up to 4:38 in the second video he's already done 4 bHKs. You blocked 2 and got hit by 2. 3:22 (blocked), 4:03 (hit), 4:14 (blocked), and 4:31 (hit). If you think I'm just cherry picking the beginning, I skipped ahead to some more matches later on and I saw the exact same thing, some blocks and some hits from the same bHK.

If you thought I meant literally clk bHK such as from dash in, then I should apologize cause that's not what I really meant and I shouldn't have wrote it short-hand if you weren't familliar. I simply meant any time bHK was used during either any block or hit strings for its overhead. And while there are times you did try to PB absolute guard it and failed, that still counts as not dealing with it well, which is why I brought it up cause it still counts as not dealing with it well.


Also, if you thought I meant "this is the only reset or blockstring or neutral thing that opened you up", then I uh guess I'm sorry? But "you got hit by this everytime" isn't "This is the only thing that hit you", I brought it up because it was a thing that hit you multiple times when he wasn't mixing it up with committed low strings. And I did actually count his low strings in the last parts of the set, which he was doing less than his bHK attempts.

dragonos451 said:
I don't recall getting j.MKs and I don't see really how much that would have helped anyway (j.mk isn't very efficient against para and doesn't lead to anything interesting).

32:02 and 32:05, dunno if I saw it more but I just randomly found it now so thats probably what I referred to.

jMK is more handy than you think against Parasoul. It moves her hurtboxes higher up than normal so it's not something Para jLP can catch easily. Even though you wouldn't think this from looking at the hitboxes, but the same is true for Para jLK which makes this button a threat. It's startup isn't too slow and since you typically use it on the way down you'll most likely have started it up before Para jMP/jHP if she uses them at normal timings. It also reaches farther than Para likes it to be, which is a plus. You are right in that it is a button that doesn't directly lead to full combo....but thats not the only way in which an air-to-air is useful in fighting games? Not to mention, in all honesty, if you did MGR after hitting with jMK, you'd probably hit 90% of Parasoul's ever, trust me on that.

I guess I need to add warnings, but don't take this to mean "only use jMK" or even "jMK is the solution!". I'm just listing 1 tool that has some specific and halfway reliable uses so that when you find yourself in a bind that you can maaaybe use this if you see the opportunity.


dragonos451 said:
I have yet to find the way to compete with para j.lp...

I'd rather work on my spacing

That section I wrote about air-to-airs? That's how. Air-to-air is the strategy, and jLK/jMK/jHK/jMP/jHP are all tools that can beat Para jLP, but each of them work at different spacings and timings unique to their own. Spacing isn't something that just comes by itself; it relies heavily on timing. What I wrote before was about the timing.

And at the end of what I said before, I even pointed out "this is THE thing that gave you trouble so you should work on it", so I'm not sure whats so confusing about that.

dragonos451 said:
and jumping meant either doing it early, before an assist call, but that means para doesn't give a fuck, calls assist and block, so all I can do is empty jump guard or get hit by the assist, or I jump later, and I'm under j.lp ruling :^/

This is just part of playing the fighting game? Yes, you will do a counter to the thing that they do. And they will change what they do in response. And then you need to change what you do right back. Just because the opponent has a counter to a thing that you counter with doesn't make your counter any less important. Additionally, Jump forward block + assist call is far from unbeatable, you just need to make a different decision sometimes and that's just part of the game.


dragonos451 said:
So, his assist didn't give me that much trouble.

His assist actually caught you a bunch? I know in a vacuum we can all say that Hairball sucks as an assist, but in the footage right here most of the times you got hit by hairball far too many times to even come close to saying this. If it's something that caught you a bunch that you didn't adjust to, then its a problem. Even as far as the game before the last, hairball was still giving you problems, and not just on the fact that you were getting caught on assist punishes.

Oh look at that, 37:39 has another use of jMK like from earlier, and I wasn't even looking for it this time.

The mashing thing I can't respond to yet since it was a specific thing that I'd have to roll over all the footage again to find, but if you don't want to heed the advice then w/e.
 
fenster said:
It moves her hurtboxes higher up than normal so it's not something Para jLP can catch easily
Interesting point. I'll look into that more.


fenster said:
jMK usage
Oh, these ones. One of them I was at super jump height when he decided to call his assist, and the other ones it was after I hit him with battle butt. I knew that in that situation I can just dash jump j.mk and he can't counter me. I'm not too sure about using it in other situations though.


fenster said:
His assist actually caught you a bunch? I know in a vacuum we can all say that Hairball sucks as an assist, but in the footage right here most of the times you got hit by hairball far too many times to even come close to saying this. If it's something that caught you a bunch that you didn't adjust to, then its a problem.
What I meant is "I could afford to get hit by his assist by trying things to stuff it". I got hit a lot, sure, because I tried plenty of things to counter it, but I didn't feel bad about it.
His gameplan appeared to be "guard the assist and try blocking the high/low mixups, or go in the air and face me in a position that I know is advantageous for me most of the time". Every time I simply got hit by the assist, he didn't get any conversion. So I had the choice between :
• play his game, which meant either block and get back to neutral with the risk of getting hit into combo + resets, or compete air-to-air and most of the time lose due to lack of confidence in the field, leading to combo and resets too ;
• don't care, get back and trying stuffing the assist, and either succeed and get damage on the assist which could mean touch of death on incoming if I get rid of his parasoul or at least make him less inclined in using it, or fail and eat some damage, no conversion, no reset, and some lost ground which I didn't care much as his corner play wasn't fabulous and I don't need the corner to kill someone.
I never said hairball was a bad assist, just that he didn't seem to know what to do in the most obvious situation : the assist hits.
Ah, also I got hit by it a lot because of my tendency to abuse LnLs. Yeah, that's a problem I need to fix.


fenster said:
If you thought I meant literally clk bHK such as from dash in
Nope, what I thought you meant is what you wrote :
fenster said:
you got hit by nearly every cLK bHK
We don't have the same definition of "nearly every" and that felt pretty insulting.


fenster said:
The mashing thing I can't respond to yet since it was a specific thing that I'd have to roll over all the footage again to find, but if you don't want to heed the advice then w/e.
...
I have some trouble accepting advices that consist in "get hit less by that thing", when said thing isn't mentioned and can't be found anywhere...
 
dragonos451 said:
...
I have some trouble accepting advices that consist in "get hit less by that thing", when said thing isn't mentioned and can't be found anywhere...

Huh? My advice was simple: he's mashing a lot, which he actually was by your own admission, so look out for it better and realize when he's doing it and avoid it. Just because I didn't (and won't, I guess) point out 1 specific thing doesn't change the general point that is this: be aware of when/how the opponent mashes out so that they don't do it the same way on you again. It's not complicated advice, so there's no need to get hung up on the specifics.
 
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