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Big Band > Beowulf?

Y

Yummy Bubbles

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Big Band Valentine
I at least hope this is a glitch, but while I was playing my friend tonight, I found that big bands brass knuckle (M or H) would SA through the single hit of beowulfs lvl 1 and counterhit. It was goofy lol
 
Armor:

Absorb hits for each point of armor, without stopping the attack.
Unless you hit multiple times the armored attack will finish.

[Or throw, or sweep, or use a hitgrab, Beowulfs arm super are none of those things.]


Seems to be working as intended.
No glitches here.
 
name 1 other special he can armor through that leaves the other person completely defenseless for about 30 frames right in front of BB though. if any BB player brass knuckles while a beowulf is using meter, that's a free wasted meter for doing very VERY little damage to BB on a move that's supposed to have full screen knockback, on the plus side BB gets a free combo out've it.

as generally slow as beowulf moves and attacks, brass knuckles will be the best option against him at all times.
 
Sniper shot.

EKG flatliner, aborsb xx SSJ

Best Friends Forever


Any super if you cancel into SSJ after the flash.

I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.
Just because it's a big arm and very cinimatic does not mean it should break fundamental mechanics of armor.

"as generally slow as beowulf moves and attacks, brass knuckles will be the best option against him at all times."

Or you just chicken block it and kill him for using unsafe fullscreen moves, like every other character does.
 
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chairless cr.hk says hi
 
Big Band can also armor Fenrir Drive and he gets a free punish, or Battle Butt, or anything that hits him less than 3x...that's how armor works.

Sweeps and snapbacks beat armor, as do throws, so Brass is not even close to the best option. In Beowulf's case specifically, L chair toss beats armor and is safe on block, and getting a counterhit throw by reading a Brass is a LOT of damage for Beowulf.
Beowulf's best option is generally not to throw out a random super either, since his super is one of the few that is always blockable after the flash at any range and it is massively punishable if blocked.

If you're going to ask a question you shouldn't have a preconceived notion of what the answer is. :^)
 
1) sniper shot can be used at any distance, including outside the reach of brass knuckles, or at least far enough away to block anything BUT H brass knuckles, meaning 1 free hit, not a free combo.

2) EKG flatliner is a low profile hit, they'd have to waste a meter to hit or parry the super (some people can parry the world, it's awesome) because brass knuckles won't hit a ground level EKG.

3) Best friends forever if used as a counter makes SSJ and brass knuckles useless, however used randomly it's an easy combo anyways, because of the long prep time and low profile of the hit.

on block or armor since the move continues long after the actual hit, it's -47.

in comparison:
EKG flatliner is -27

Sniper shot is 20 frames total (game isn't displaying the recover after block with a - for some reason, so lets assume 20 total) and can be used at any distance.

Best Friends Forever is anywhere from -24 to -12 based on the distance from the opponent.

EKG flatliner and BFF don't put the opponent right beside BB and EKG turns around and hits again meaning they have to block initially or burn a meter to super out.

Basically at the moment a chicken blocking BB who falls out've a combo or waits for a link has an automatic advantage over most of beowulfs moves, and the only option beowulf has that can counter brass knuckles with is kicking the chair (which only works IF you have the chair and limits some of your options), C. LK which without the chair can't be combo'd out've, or to anticipate a brass knuckles an C. HP without the chair at the last second/block.

The only reason I brought this up is that BB has a lot of the same range on hitboxes as beowulf, and options that are incredibly good against him, so I was wondering about allowing allowing his level 1 which is supposed to have fullscreen knockback hit through BB's armor just to even the odds a little.

PS the option of baiting the chicken-blocking BB into a raw/command grab would be fantastic if the kicks/punchs with knockback were able to be combo'd out of, even if it automatically put the person in stage 3 or something. whether or not that's gonna happen is up to Mike Z, and honestly I'm not sure how well that'd balance so my opinion is null on that bit.

TL:DR: any BB the plays super defensively and just blocks beowulf 1v1 until the beowulf makes a mistake or supers has an automatic advantage over beowulf, at least at the moment. So why not buff the lvl 1 if only a little bit against BB?

Research is a good thing
 
There's no such thing as "outside the reach of brass knuckles" unless your opponent is moving backwards. Kara s.MK > H Brass will hit fullscreen on everyone. Counterhit H Brass > SSJ isn't peanuts damage, BTW.

Secondly, are you seriously asking for Beowulf to have another move that can break armor? Beowulf's command grab breaks armor. L Chair Breaks armor. Every one of his hitgrabs breaks armor. His takes-up-3/4ths-of-the-goddamn-screen armored sweep breaks armor.

Finally, the solution to not letting Big Band armor through your (still unsafe) supers is to do less supers at neutral unless you have very good reason to.
 
L and M brass knuckles doesn't hit fullscreen, I was referencing M and H as a group because those both have a hit of armor.

beowulf has 4 hit-grab moves.
without chair:
h. hp which would only be successful during the short startup of any of the brass knuckles and requires you to be right in their face

j. hp which with the beta modification to BB's a-train a while ago is beaten by both A-train AND brass knuckles at any real distance.

and QCF h+p which only works during the startup of brass knuckles, but has a much longer startup than brass knuckles.

Edit: I forgot about C. mk but that only works on downed opponents

lastly, the chair only works when you HAVE the chair which has a 2 or 3 second cooldown (can't remember which), or if done in a corner with a BB blocking, is a risky pickup as it's right in front of BB giving a few free frames with which to punish. of course that bit could be alleviated from the blockstun of j.hk.
 
Yummy Bubbles said:
Basically at the moment a chicken blocking BB who falls out've a combo or waits for a link has an automatic advantage over most of beowulfs moves
If this were true it'd be true of every character that isn't Valentine, and she'd have to be doing s./c.MP...

A Beowulf paying attention vs Band waiting to Brass can drop the combo into a throw and get a free CH. But that's a yomi level up.

Yummy Bubbles said:
PS the option of baiting the chicken-blocking BB into a raw/command grab would be fantastic if the kicks/punchs with knockback were able to be combo'd out of, even if it automatically put the person in stage 3 or something. whether or not that's gonna happen is up to Mike Z, and honestly I'm not sure how well that'd balance so my opinion is null on that bit.
I tried it, but they don't build undizzy yet so it's a little stupid. Maybe when they do.
If this were true then corner, no chair c.LK->s.MK->s.HP->PPP, s.MP->s.HP->PPP, s.LK->s.MP->s.HP->PPP, OTG c.MK->finisher works for like no undizzy. Nah.

Also I disagree with your assertion (a common theme here). Both Dance and Splash give untechable knockdown, and Dance also gives safejump setups. So just getting a grab on BB can be big news.

Yummy Bubbles said:
TL:DR: any BB the plays super defensively and just blocks beowulf 1v1 until the beowulf makes a mistake or supers has an automatic advantage over beowulf, at least at the moment. So why not buff the lvl 1 if only a little bit against BB?

Research is a good thing
I disagree with your opinion, which is exactly that, an opinion.

Research is a great thing, your suggestion - to break a game-wide rule because of an imbalance you perceive that other people don't perceive - is not.
The longer you harp on it the less helpful it is.
 
I wasn't trying to harp, I was just trying to discuss this with people to get different opinions and defend my point. At this point I see no reason to post any of my thoughts on this forum, besides Mike Z and skarmand all the comments have been either asinine or antagonistic. Apparently that's what this forum has degraded into. You guys have a nice day
 
The only things that seems antagonistic to me in this thread are mcpeanuts' post, which we definitely could have done without, and your own post #8. Maybe I have a higher tolerance.
That's not a bad ratio for a fighting game forum?

To address your actual comments about the matchup, Big Band can't punish Beowulf's s/c.LP, s/c.LK, s/c.MP, or c.MK with normals or specials, and can't punish any of them except c.MP and s.LK even with SSJ. He can't punish any hop-dash attack, either. Cancelling into command grab on block leaves about a 10f gap, which is enough for Band to mash out an LP if he is looking for it but not enough to do any strength of Brass. Chaining into Tackle F-DF is a frametrap that beats mashed LP and leaves you at least +6 on block to keep up pressure. Chaining into chair kick is a frametrap that beats reversal armored moves. Chaining into chairless c.HK is an armored frametrap that beats Brass as well as SSJ, and lets you ground tech if blocked. Chaining into chairless c.HP is an armored frametrap that you can let hit twice then super cancel on reaction to beat any strength of Brass AND SSJ AND land a counterhit super, or super cancel on reaction to any attempted punish if blocked, or do a few frames late and also be able to stuff mashed Beat Extend, which is something not a lot of characters can do.

Stand alone super might be a bad idea, but it's a bad idea lots of places with lots of supers. Beowulf is by no means helpless vs Big Band.
 
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