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Broseidon's Diary

8/17/15
Played a bunch with @fenster
1) Learn EBrake cancel after throw. Really hindering combo ability
2) remember to do jMK after Air Throw
3) Block better?
4) Learn how to harness assist better (After Dynamo, do Titan Knuckle to Beat Extend Assist)
5) Learn Song
6) Don't think blockstrings outside of ending with cMP. Think Frame Traps (delay to rush punch)
7) Practice Wake Up DP
8) Practice smarter

What did I lose to?
1) Did not stay calm during matches, would zone out and get be distracted
2)
 
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Broseidon Rex said:
8/17/15

2) remember to do jMK after Air Throw


Not just that, but the section of the combo I was doing. Air throw, jMK -> cLK cMK sHP -> jMP slight delay jMK -> sLP into blah blah blah. It doesn't use otg or soundstun and it's worth learning/practicing, for me it was hard enough that I had ot practice it for a while before I started doing it somewhat consistently.
 
are you SURE that doesn't use OTG? Not at computer to test but I'm 90% sure either the j.mk or the c.lk does.

edit: the conversion I stole from peanuts off airthrow is j.mk c.mk beat extend into stuff, which of course uses sound stun but it's a bit easier.
 
Pickles remember that one time with m. brass when you were 90% sure :^)
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Learn EBrake cancel after throw. Really hindering combo ability
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS the gospel is spreading. Easy 6.4k with the usual midscreen combo. If you miss the c.lk link after ebrake (which means you timed the ebrake late cuz it can be +18), they're usually upbacking and you get a free reset. If they learn to neutral jump, s.lp cuz they ain't holding back. If they learn to down back, throw em again. If you feel they had enough and are gonna mash, block. It's great and it's hilarious. It's like my only goal with Big Band lol
 
Pickles said:
are you SURE that doesn't use OTG? Not at computer to test but I'm 90% sure either the j.mk or the c.lk does.

The point isn't that it saves otg at the beginning, the point is that its not air throw -> some combo with JHK (which doesn't work without otg or super near corner). And yes its also about preserving soundstun cause I really like preserving soundstun (and don't like doing BE in combos aside from DP starter). Along with being a nice combo to use when you're too close to use jMK for wallbounce (and don't want to super), I really found it useful once I started using that sequence which is why I told him to practice it.

Fedora_Ninja said:
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS the gospel is spreading.

Honestly I'm finding it super easy to do even compared to the braindead options of giant step stuff and less risky than microdash. Can confirm that it's the new cool thing to do CoolCat.
 
i mean I'm not contesting the usefulness of that sequence, the reason I pointed out the OTG thing though is that because the air throw uses OTG (as far as I can tell, been grinding it and I'm pretty sure the j.mk immediately after throw uses up otg every time because the throw drops them low enough) you can't get a sliding knockdown off of airthrow which I think is important to note.
 
Notes I got from DekillSchool with Mike Z (@SonicFox5000 and @dekillsage , please correct if I got anything wrong please)
Bella
  • after cMK, jMP, delay to jMK serves as a safe jump and an overhead. Use it more
  • MGR is not a good neutral tool but it is good for when you know person down+back's after whiffing an air attack
  • Don't do air throw reset after cHP (too predictable). Better option is cHP, runstop, sHP to MGR
  • LnL is not a good neutral option for Bella, except against Parasoul and even then, must beware of bike grab
  • Jumping into an attack like Bella's jHK and blocking could mean you land and recover before they do, allowing for a punish. Try to do that more.
  • Run cancel cHK at neutral. Super safer
Big Band (didn't stay around for the teaching section)
  • Easy reset: sLP, delay sLP (still chains), GiantStep/Throw/low option)
@fenster 's notes to me
  • Don't use BE late into combos and don't shake, it builds lots of meter for the opponent and doesn't add much damage, cymbals is a better use of sound stun and builds them less meter.
  • New Midscreen that is easier and avoids BE: cLK, cMK, sHP, jMP, jHP, jHK, (OTG) sMKx2, jLK (all hits), jMK, sLP, sMK, jLP, jLK, jMK (all hits) then either jHP, A Train or Cymbals
  • New Corner: cLK, cMK, sHK, M Brass, cMPx2 or cMK, sHP, jMP, jMK (all hits), H cymbals, jLK, jMP, (rejump) jLP, jLK then either sLPx2, sMP, sHK, A Train if they are still relatively higher in the air or sLP, cLK, cMP x2, sHK, A train
  • sLP during this combo can be good to beat mashing
  • Anytime you are rejumping in a combo, it's a reset opp
  • Use cLK over sLK (cLK: +5 on block, sLK: +4 on block and two hits is easier to pushblock
Also it looks like between last night and this morning, my stick has decided to start malfunctioning. Looks like I'm going back to Brawl Stick.... yay.
 
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OK just about got the Midscreen combo, it's not too bad. Also, Ebraking after grab is also simple, just start charging at the beginning of the animation and then do it a little after the last hit.
 
2 other things.

1st is remember what I was saying to you when you said "I do too many pushblocks". I told you that when you're in the air from a chicken block, you don't have to pushblock everything, cause if you don't you land first and usually get an opportunity to land cancel-punish. You'll get the hang of it more and see good opportunities for it the more you just get yourself to stop pushblocking everything.

2nd is

Broseidon Rex said:
  • Don't do air throw reset after cHP (too predictable). Better option is cHP, runstop, sHP to MGR
Not only that, but also if you want to do an air throw reset, you should instead do one from a runstop, like clk cMK runstop jump air throw, at least I'm pretty sure that's a thing.
 
fenster said:
2 other things.
1st is remember what I was saying to you when you said "I do too many pushblocks". I told you that when you're in the air from a chicken block, you don't have to pushblock everything, cause if you don't you land first and usually get an opportunity to land cancel-punish. You'll get the hang of it more and see good opportunities for it the more you just get yourself to stop pushblocking everything.
Good point.
fenster said:
Not only that, but also if you want to do an air throw reset, you should instead do one from a runstop, like clk cMK runstop jump air throw, at least I'm pretty sure that's a thing.
It is definitely a thing. cMK is a dream of reset options
 
So finally did that 5 game analysis, this time with @Pikmario . Sorry for echo, didn't realize how bad it was till I was done. Any critique/comment is welcome.
 
You pointed out good stuff there, just 2 notes I wanted to say.

1. If you want to end your BB air combo early from that jMK, you can do either jHK xx timpani or just straight up timpani since timpani connects with all the BB air buttons. Going for cymbals can work but you might was well just do super.

2. On that BB timpani on block, I'll refer to Mcpeanuts's video on the subject and tell you to watch it.

 
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Played a couple with @Muro at new location with new internet. Was a bit underwater and some rollback shananigans, but still went well. Went 4-7 in close matches.
Two firsts that I've been practicing/theorizing and did in match

1) BB fullscreen L Giant step to throw off jump timing to hit with follow H Giant Step
2) Grab xx E Brake xx regular combo

I'm starting to get more confident with my Big Band and this is good.
 
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Broseidon Rex said:
So finally did that 5 game analysis, this time with @Pikmario . Sorry for echo, didn't realize how bad it was till I was done. Any critique/comment is welcome.
Sorry I'm a giant nerd and only just got around to watching this. I have some notes after watching it:

You point out at the beginning of the video that s.LK > c.LK after the A-Train assist is a mistake, but I actually think that was really good. You started the combo with the assist, meaning it was going to scale really bad. I like going for an immediate reset here.

At around 3:30 you were talking about how you tried to DP out of Pikmario's reset. The reset he's doing is difficult to DP out of, because you're recovering in the air and he's hitting you meaty as you hit the ground. As long as he doesn't mess up the setup you only have 1 frame to reversal (and he can change where the 1 frame is by varying the timing of his reset). I would recommend just trying to block resets like this. By contrast, the reset at 19:40 is much easier to reversal out of and I think you made the right call by doing so.

At 12:30 or so, you go for air grab, falling j.LK, c.MK, but your c.MK doesn't come out. It looks like you double tapped LK, so you got a c.LK when you hit the ground. That move whiffed, and then your c.MK doesn't come out because you can't chain on whiff in this game. Might wanna be careful about double tapping LK in that combo.

Lastly..................... have you tried Beat Extend assist? I'm watching this match and watching the places where your assist is hitting, and Beat Extend would have hit in those situations too, but it would have led to a much easier follow up combo. You dropped the conversion after A Train assist hit a few times. Beat Extend also gives you a few other neat things (lets you convert off Dynamo or Diamond Drop midscreen, hits people who aren't jumping, etc).
 
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mcpeanuts said:
You point out at the beginning of the video that s.LK > c.LK after the A-Train assist is a mistake, but I actually think that was really good. You started the combo with the assist, meaning it was going to scale really bad. I like going for an immediate reset here.
good point.
mcpeanuts said:
At 12:30 or so, you go for air grab, falling j.LK, c.MK, but your c.MK doesn't come out. It looks like you double tapped LK, so you got a c.LK when you hit the ground. That move whiffed, and then your c.MK doesn't come out because you can't chain on whiff in this game. Might wanna be careful about double tapping LK in that combo.
I usually do jLK, cLK, cMK and usually connect. So that was on purpose. I could use jLP, but would that mean I couldn't do cHP, jLP chain to restand jHP later in combo? I forget how IPS works after grabs.
mcpeanuts said:
Lastly..................... have you tried Beat Extend assist? I'm watching this match and watching the places where your assist is hitting, and Beat Extend would have hit in those situations too, but it would have led to a much easier follow up combo. You dropped the conversion after A Train assist hit a few times. Beat Extend also gives you a few other neat things (lets you convert off Dynamo or Diamond Drop midscreen, hits people who aren't jumping, etc).
I've been trying beat extend. Part of me is worried about having the mentality that "My assist is a DP, time to get me out of a situation". Plus, I saw someone using A Train very well in their game for positioning and wanted to try that. I've tried BE a few times, it is good and I'll probably get to using it along with A Train.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
I usually do jLK, cLK, cMK and usually connect. So that was on purpose. I could use jLP, but would that mean I couldn't do cHP, jLP chain to restand jHP later in combo? I forget how IPS works after grabs.
You'll still be able to do your full combo if you go into j.LP. I don't really think it make any difference to do j.LP instead of j.LK though other than you get less damage with j.LP. But anyways, in that situation, it'd be a lot better to use st.LK or a st.jab instead, because then you don't risk the chance of cr.LK going under them.
 
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Broseidon Rex said:
I usually do jLK, cLK, cMK and usually connect. So that was on purpose. I could use jLP, but would that mean I couldn't do cHP, jLP chain to restand jHP later in combo? I forget how IPS works after grabs.

combos after grabs work follow the same IPS rules as normal: first chain after grab is stage 2 then next chain is stage 3 etc. So your j.lp after grab will be stage 2 and not counted, so you can use it again later. I don't play bella but j.lp after grab seems to be more popular and more consistent.

Broseidon Rex said:
I've been trying beat extend. Part of me is worried about having the mentality that "My assist is a DP, time to get me out of a situation". Plus, I saw someone using A Train very well in their game for positioning and wanted to try that. I've tried BE a few times, it is good and I'll probably get to using it along with A Train.

I can definitely understand wanting to avoid that mentality (it's one of the reasons I switched to brass myself) but tbh I don't think there's a lot that A-train brings to the table that beat extend does not other than gimmicky setups that aren't worth the loss of utility that beat extend gives. The thing about beat extend is like peanuts said, not only is it a good DP assist but also gives you some cool conversions so it's definitely got a lot of value to Bella.
 
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Played a good bit today. Practicing comboing into lvl 5 and song from A Train timing is weird, but it looks like if I start the inputs after the second hit of A Train, it comes out consistently. Also practicing the corner combo, but i'm having problems with the jLK, jMK, (rejump) jLP, jLK, ground part. The timing is weird and I need to practice
ACHIEVEMENT: actually did combo into lvl 5 song during a match
Played a bunch with @Dreamepitaph and Kotri. Lost big to both, especially kotri and the pressure. Got to get better at defending.
 
Played QM yesterday and today (did better today while slightly tipsy) One thing I like now is that there are more skilled people, so while QM used to be either really easy or really hard, there's now a much wider range of skilled players. So yay.
 
Played FT5 against @Bit_Strife with some good patience and neutral. Too many times I let him have space with Squigs tho, so need to work on forcing situations where he stays close, even if it's just landing.
Practice mode consisted of doing BB combos in the right corner (need to practice left)
The original corner combo I was given was
cLK, cMK, sHK, M.Brass, cMK, sHP, jMP, all of jMK, M.Cymbals, (rejump) jLK, jMP, (rejump), jLP, jLK, jMK, sLP, sMP, sHK, H.ATrain

However, I realized that if I ignore the sHK, M.Brass, cMK in the beginning, the resulting combo will not use a ground bounce so after sHK, I can use H.ATrain to get a sliding knockdown back into the corner or use L.Brass to continue the combo for more damage. Plan on making this the corner BnB
 
8-30 against @Dhoppler . Started off ok, then only got a win every 8 matches or so.
Pros:
Blocking progressed over the matches.
Started playing unlike myself when I got a confirm (unsafe reset spots, silly buttons, things I don't normally use) and I could get some hits.
I liked the neutral (save for me inexplicably just stop blocking while chicken blocking)
Remembered BB corner BnB (but didn't finish it)
Happy Birthday only once

Cons:
Once I got in the vortex, I was pretty done for.
My reversals still need work. Apparently there were large gaps
No matter how many times he did, I always thought he would do a low with peacock instead of instant overheading BB.
When my reversal did come out, it was way too obvious.
1 out of 2 matches ended with me being shamed upon with Peacock's Lvl 3 when I tried to punish something (or mashed out) Brass. Can't do stupid shit like that.
I'm starting to be stupid with Duo. Bad assist calls, mashing tag when it's definitely not a good idea. I need to remember to only use assist if I really need it, not when I got nothing better to do.

Before the matches, was practicing cLK, cMP, Kancho Feint xx Diamond Drop/MerryGoRilla.
 
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Picked up the game again after a while and played a set with @Tommer . Got my ass kicked but remembering why I liked this game.
 
3/29/16 A solid set with MWM. Went 10-5. Focused only on Bella. The one thing I really want to take away from this match is not to automatically do cLK, cMP, cHP, Run stop. He MGR'd me every time. Gotta occasionally throw out a cHK or not run cancel or something because it's a pattern he really picked up.

Also, I've been told I have a weird/wonky bella by a couple of people at this point (@IsaVulpes @Broken Loose MWM and others I can't think of). What is it about my play that's weird exactly?
 
I can't remember anything beyond what I wrote on the 1st page - as in, IIRC stuff was reasonably okay/normal, but you just had no offence at all and never reversaled. Can't remember something particularly strange in the neutral game.
That was like the last time I played you and it's been nearly a year ago though, so my memory may not be the most accurate~
 
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Hey Broseidon I was meaning to ask, what does A Train assist do for your Bella? Kai and I were trying to figure it out while commentating your matches for FINAL BLOW: Shadow Of The Skullgirl. Wasn't sure if you had some setups with it like Maul or 159man that we just didn't get to see.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Hey Broseidon I was meaning to ask, what does A Train assist do for your Bella? Kai and I were trying to figure it out while commentating your matches for FINAL BLOW: Shadow Of The Skullgirl. Wasn't sure if you had some setups with it like Maul or 159man that we just didn't get to see.
I think I saw him jumping a bunch and wanted him to be scared to jump some. Don't think I utilized it well tho.
 
Played a long set with @mcpeanuts which taught me a couple of things, including inherent pressing of buttons, spacing out was bad, bad reflecting, being afraid of double, and not blocking when appropriate (full screen shots why?). went 0-40. I plan to watch through the matches tomorrow to think of stuff to think/practice about. Mcpeanuts told me the best thing to do is to watch ur matches and practice on specific things. The two big things I want to work on are

1) Deflecting under pressure, so I need to do Typing of the Skullgirls more
2) The Double/Light Beat Extend mixup. This let him control entire matches and being unable to counter or block the number of options he had there did not do me any good

I'll try to commentate tomorrow on what I saw from the first 20 or so matches.

Stuff I remember:
Yes getting them with a mixup they didn't look for is good, but not if it sacrifices the corner, especially against peacock. Until I have a good setup for following up on it in the corner, no diamond dropping out of the corner.

just saw @Clawsome Bombs do a burst bait where you do the cerebella flowchart then end with jLP and jMP near them, the hell?
Also he does a bunch of Lights immmediately into MGR. This is good, I should do that.
 
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not sure how you play bella, but an important part of my neutral is setting them up for MGR/Excabella baits in long sets. when i set them up for a reset, i'll switch between c.lk for lows, MGRs for downbacks, and Excabellas for upbacks, and doing nothing, if i feel they'll super. I'm not sure how receptive you are to introducing conditioning to your opponent, but I feel like it's a huge part of bella's game, as if you can scare your opponent into believing they can't choose the correct option, they'll often put themselves in bad positions in order to avoid you. Again, just a thought.
 
btw Broseidon something I was meaning to ask at the time but forgot. When we were playing a lot of the time I would hit you with whatever and you would start trying to work out what just happened and why you got hit, and while you were talking I would hit you with like 3-4 more resets while you weren't paying attention. Is this typical of how you normally play or is it something you were doing cause it was casuals? If it's the former I'd def recommend getting away from that mindset. If you're always thinking about the last thing you got hit by, you're never thinking about the next thing you're GOING to get hit by.
 
mcpeanuts said:
btw Broseidon something I was meaning to ask at the time but forgot. When we were playing a lot of the time I would hit you with whatever and you would start trying to work out what just happened and why you got hit, and while you were talking I would hit you with like 3-4 more resets while you weren't paying attention. Is this typical of how you normally play or is it something you were doing cause it was casuals? If it's the former I'd def recommend getting away from that mindset. If you're always thinking about the last thing you got hit by, you're never thinking about the next thing you're GOING to get hit by.
I think cause I'm getting back into it, i spaced out at times. In tournament or by myself, i don't think i usually talk out loud. And most of the times during our set, I was trying to think of the next reset you would do after that one ('ok he did sideswitch low this time, he'll try same side or throw') but I remember a couple of times where you would do the same reset and i kept thinking 'he's gonna switch up the reset this time' but you wouldn't for 4 times.


cherry blossoms said:
not sure how you play bella, but an important part of my neutral is setting them up for MGR/Excabella baits in long sets. when i set them up for a reset, i'll switch between c.lk for lows, MGRs for downbacks, and Excabellas for upbacks, and doing nothing, if i feel they'll super. I'm not sure how receptive you are to introducing conditioning to your opponent, but I feel like it's a huge part of bella's game, as if you can scare your opponent into believing they can't choose the correct option, they'll often put themselves in bad positions in order to avoid you. Again, just a thought.
I wasn't able to do this much against mcpeanuts because I spent a bunch of time either in the double vortex or with full screen peacock. When I could do this, I would have the right read but input errors killed me.
I am a little wary about doing EB's though since it's a bunch of negative on miss and might not pay off as much without super near the corner. Wouldn't c.LK do the same job for upbacking if you time it right.
But no, I don't think I do this enough and I need to, so thank you for the advice.

As for what I did yesterday, about half an hour of reflect practice with Typing of the Skullgirls Marie. I think if I do that a bit every day for about two weeks, I'll see some improvement.

Thank you for the feedback guys I appreciate it!
 
Broseidon Rex said:
I think cause I'm getting back into it, i spaced out at times. In tournament or by myself, i don't think i usually talk out loud. And most of the times during our set, I was trying to think of the next reset you would do after that one ('ok he did sideswitch low this time, he'll try same side or throw') but I remember a couple of times where you would do the same reset and i kept thinking 'he's gonna switch up the reset this time' but you wouldn't for 4 times.
Well that's part of being unpredictable, you know? Some people try to always do a different mixup for the second one, and against players like that, it's like, ok, he went low last time, so this time it's something other than a low. So it's one less option you need to be thinking about. You're a lot more unpredictable if you use every option including the one you just did the last 4 times.


Broseidon Rex said:
I am a little wary about doing EB's though since it's a bunch of negative on miss and might not pay off as much without super near the corner. Wouldn't c.LK do the same job for upbacking if you time it right.
I was thinking the same thing tbh
 
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Played against @iDante_SG and couldn't handle the wulf. Must fix problem of unsafe moves and predictability. The unoptimal resets did catch him off guard tho, so need more than that. Gonna start trying something.
 
Played @dapurplesharpie @AlcoholicRobot and a longer set with @Domo . Still trying to titan knuckle too much and getting hit as a result, but it started to decrease in usage as the matches went on. Have to remain more mobile and unpredictable, safe backing up at neutral is only giving people time to set up things (painwheel erratic approaches, Eliza projectiles, BB charge).
Also notice i'm enjoying all the games, even the ones i'm losing, so that's something.
 
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