Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly. You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section.
The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.
Extremely easy execution for a 10k combo, might be a viable niche combo for a newbie. BB specific, obviously. Might also work on double. Everything up until stage 5 has an almost irresistible rhythm to it. It's actually more difficult to drop the combo than it is to keep going.
His hurtbox makes the j.mp jumpin a viable starter. Probably much more effective for oki if you use a low assist or something.
EDIT: Also a sort of decent mid-screen. Substitute f.hp with s.hk and end with a f.hp for damage. Use s.hp instead of s.hk for a lame burst bait at the cost of a little damage. It might be interesting to try using s.hk for awhile and then switch it up for a burst bait, even if it's obvious.
Cerebella's unbreakable Elbow(cross up) starts combo at stage 3
in the video, when you just use elbow it starts at stage 2, but a cross-up Elbow starts at stage 3.
bug or on purpose.
*tap* @Mike_Z
Cross up elbow hits when you are technically on the ground (you can cancel 360). Since you're hitting with a "ground" move, it is considered as stage 2. Therefore the following chain (cLP) is stage 3.
10F start up.
Unreactable.
50% scaled combo.
Stage 2.
Only hits the point.
Less damage than J2MP total when you complete a combo.
Misses up close.
Punishable if they jump or you miss.
Bella J2MP:
15F start up.
Unreactable.
No scaling.
Stage 2.
Hits two characters for HBD.
-1 on block, completely safe.
Hits up close and far away.
Can dodge lows after the jump.
Does more damage than MGR if you complete a combo.
Hits opponents jumping.
:thinking_emoji:
I really hate playing against Bella's who beat my down back without using command grabs.
MGR and Diamond Drop are really cool well designed moves and then J2MP comes along and just seems better?
I know command grabs are good for ticks, but it still seems like J2MP is much better for being -1, preventing jumps, hitting both characters, and doing more damage.
You could still Diamond Drop after they block it and beat out a jab.
Someone educate me.
Should Bella players be using J2MP every time when you can be safe?
Getting hit really hurts now with how optimized people are this late in the game.
Not going to try saying which is better because duh I don't play this game, but a few additional notes about both moves :
- MGR means more damage if you reset at max undizzy and you immediately go for another reset. Doing cLK cMP cHP excellebella after j2MP will give you more damage than after MGR tho.
- vs characters without an airdash, MGR is safe against reversal jump if done meaty (except if you're too close and the opponent wakes up with instant overhead).
- 2jMP may be very unsafe if it gets chicken blocked, it doesn't matter if done meaty and its ground recovery is always super cancellable if you feel cheeki breeki.
- mgr gives bella amazing setups against specific characters, offering a mash safe 50/50 with a properly spaced/timed MGR/cLK.
This discussion doesn't matter in the corner since lololol jHP.
- vs characters without an airdash, MGR is safe against reversal jump if done meaty (except if you're too close and the opponent wakes up with instant overhead).
I think each character has a way to punish from a jump.
Parasoul has jLP, Squigly has divekick, Big Band has jMK / Timapni, Painwheel has thresher / FC stuff, Bella has jHP, Double has item crash, Fukua has jHK, Beowulf idk, Robo has jHP.
Yeah that's true if you land cancel it you can punish it, but if you're doing J2MP as a reset or a good tick you should be safe if it's normally -1.
MGR is probably more practical in neutral for its reach and how ready you have to be to punish it.
Should have precised "when spaced properly" too. In that case, for example, bella's only punish is instant glide 2jMP, which is far from trivial. Para jLP doesnt punish vs meaty, squigly divekick won't connect.
Additional notes:
The next hit after Elbow is stage 3, not stage 2. The next hit after MGR is stage 2. MGR doesn't "do less damage" than Elbow depending on the combo you do, because you can do better combos off MGR. (For example in my practical damage video it's easier to kill off MGR than off Elbow.)
MGR beats stand block, whereas Elbow doesn't, and MGR can't be pushblocked out if properly defended.
MGR beats assist calls that become active, whereas Elbow doesn't.
MGR hits from way farther away than Elbow does.
MGR can be spaced such that most reversals require awkward conversions.
MGR beats strike-invincible reversals, like Eliza or Fukua.
Also, those 5f can make a big difference!
However, CH Elbow does give you extra damage, whereas CH MGR doesn't. They both grant the same undizzy bonus.
Someone educate me.
Should Bella players be using J2MP every time when you can be safe?
I can try to explain it as I see it. going to avoid things Mike and Dragonos have already said.
50% scaled combo.
Less damage than J2MP total when you complete a combo. Misses up close.
MGR scales to 55% (not a huge difference, but that's the scaling). Full combo off of MGR is netting me 7.8k, Elbow is netting me 7.6k. Full Undizzy combo can net me 5.6k for MGR and 5.7k for Elbow. No assists, one bar. It's not a difference to write home about.
Sure, MGR misses up close, but you aren't supposed to do it that close. You have to get a feel for the range. If you mis-space your move, that's your fault, not the move's.
15F start up. -1 on block, completely safe.
Part of this will come down to human ability. A perfect elbow is 15f and -1, but sometimes it could come out 21f and be -7 on block depending on how quickly you hit up then down then mp. If we were judging characters on perfect play, Big Band would be top tier because of parries.
I think each character has a way to punish from a jump.
Parasoul has jLP, Squigly has divekick, Big Band has jMK / Timapni, Painwheel has thresher / FC stuff, Bella has jHP, Double has item crash, Fukua has jHK, Beowulf idk, Robo has jHP.
This is all, for the most part, assuming you do MGR incorrectly. A properly spaced tight MGR reset is pretty hard to beat for most of those characters, unless they spend meter. Some of those characters, the only way to beat it is if they know you're doing it and do their option immediately. If my opponent knows I'm about to MGR and punishes me with an immediate jump forward button, or if I do a sloppy MGR, I deserve to get clapped for it.
Another part of this, like against Parasoul who has a much easier time doing it, comes down to both players knowing that MGR gets slapped. If both players know, it makes Parasoul more likely to jump, and Bella less likely to MGR, which leads Parasoul to get more comfortable downbacking, which leads Bella to risk MGR. I like that kind of mind game.
Yeah that's true if you land cancel it you can punish it, but if you're doing J2MP as a reset or a good tick you should be safe if it's normally -1.
If they are upbacking, the option that beats Command Grabs anyway, they block, land cancel, and just about every character can punish this without any real effort, like dragonos said.
MGR beats stand block, whereas Elbow doesn't, and MGR can't be pushblocked out if properly defended.
I have a blockstring setup that I never manage to pull off to beat Pushblocks. c.lk, c.mp, s.hk (1). If it all gets blocked, Runstop to be safe, if any part is pushblocked, MGR to snatch them out. If they push c.lk, then c.mp pulls you close enough for it to land, and if they push c.mp then s.hk does the same thing. I'm really bad at this kind of thing, though, so I can never get it down.
Additional notes:
The next hit after Elbow is stage 3, not stage 2. The next hit after MGR is stage 2. MGR doesn't "do less damage" than Elbow depending on the combo you do, because you can do better combos off MGR. (For example in my practical damage video it's easier to kill off MGR than off Elbow.)
All my testing gives me stage 2.
Air Chain (J2MP) [1] > Ground Chain (cLK) [2]
Is this unintended?
Part of this will come down to human ability. A perfect elbow is 15f and -1, but sometimes it could come out 21f and be -7 on block depending on how quickly you hit up then down then mp. If we were judging characters on perfect play, Big Band would be top tier because of parries.
It's a 4F buffer window to get it fast as possible that doesn't rely on your opponents inputs like Parry so I don't think that's a good comparison.
Might be hard on stick to move it from up to down right away but on Hitbox at least I don't think it's an issue.
If you go from a standing to immediately jumping and doing Elbow as fast as possible, I believe the safest you can be is -1. However, if you jump, then as you're landing, as late as possible, you do Elbow, you can be plus. We're talking about doing elbow as fast as possible, as a mixup tool.
If you go from a standing to immediately jumping and doing Elbow as fast as possible, I believe the most plus you can be is -1. However, if you jump, then as you're landing, as late as possible, you do Elbow, you can be that plus. We're talking about doing elbow as fast as possible, as a mixup tool.
oh ok, and I did it right after the jump and not as she was landing.
Has this been done?
I saw someone else do the Robo-Fortune missile assist > Nekhbet Breaker, I did not come up with that, I just wanted to see the silliness if Beowulf joined in the fun.
Oh. So, just made this post in the combo thread for a 1v2 happy birthday assist kill (costs one bar, builds the bar it uses) and learned something testing the setup on different duos (specifically, Peacock/Parasoul). The primary way I have been doing Birthday Drops is by doing something, c.hp, runstop, Dynamo. It has really easy timing, so it works pretty well, but certain matchups will have the second character bounce out of the Dynamo. If instead you simply let the Tumble Run go (looks like either mk run or hk run) and delay your dynamo appropriately, it seems pretty consistent. Obviously can't test every duo, but this looks solid.
The topic of retail m shadow came up again, with someone suggesting making it assist only. Someone else said that it wouldn't be fair to give fukua loops exclusively to other characters. Does that mean things like this are no good? I don't know. But if these things are fine, here's this setup.
Bella can get just a j.hk by itself after launcher and combo after fairly easily (it's just different timing on the j.hk). I don't know why I never considered doing it before. I'm sure someone can make some more optimal combos using that.
If you do cMK Kanchou you get a free sideswitch on everyone except when you're midscreen versus Painwheel, Valentine, and Squigly.
However, you can do cLP cMK runstop sLK sMP Kanchou and it will work midscreen on those characters.
It isn't useful or practical at all but it looks cool.
So, I'm messing around in training mode, coming up with new ways to safely shut down my opponents options, and realized some of the trickiest stuff I found gets avoided by Double Jumps. There's obviously that thing, where if the opponent double jumped already then they don't get to do it again until they jump again (I think that's how it works), but it seems kinda hard to keep track of whether or not someone's used their double jump option and whether they jumped since then. So, I figured why not create a setup that ensures the opponent doesn't have their double jump?
Essentially, this is the basic setup I came up with just now (might have already existed, but I've never seen anyone else do it really): With Bella/Brass, c.lp, c.mk, brass, excellebella. The goal is to get Excel to land first, then Brass. It's a fairly straightforward setup, so there's little chance of the opponent blocking incorrectly. The only option is the opponent blocks, or gets hit, and you are safe in either scenario. If you see the counterhit spark, they may not have double jumped, but if you don't then they almost certainly did. Since Bella/Brass can't really capitalize off of this outside the corner it is a little situational, but it can be done with M Beat Extend (with slightly harder timing) to get confirms anywhere to lead into your setup.
Other characters on a trio team, or perhaps other assist options outside Big Band, could help expand the range of where you can use this setup. For example: Bella/Squigly/Band could get the same setup and DHC into a confirm, then Squigly's setup of choice. I can imagine similar team members being Fukua, Filia, Peacock, and Robo (prolly others). You can probably also get the same setup with other characters easier using Excellebella assist, but it feels more obvious and comes with not being able to use another assist for Bella.
This is a video comparing both cerebella and Ms. fortune
Normally people would say that fortune or peacock build meter the best free.
However, Cerebella's meter gain stems from tumble run and gets additional meter for follow ups. This video demonstrates cerebella getting a full bar for a corner combo. It also demonstrates her getting near a bar midscreen. Shortly after i recorded the midscreen combo i found another combo for midscreen that she is guaranteed a full bar. Cerebella is #1 in terms of building meter during combos right now.
Cerebella is #1 in terms of building meter right now.
I disagree, Peacock is by far the best at building bar. She might only build about 75-80% meter from most of her solo combos (which is still decent) but about 7 seconds of zoning builds a full bar. And don't even get me started when she has no meter, s.hp whiff into specials builds meter like nothing. s.hp whiff when under 1 bar builds at least 10% on it's own. If you're referring to just meter gain during combos than sure, Bella might be one of the best. Overall though? It's Peacock hands down even though I will admit, Bells's assist help others build lots of bar (excella and LNL for example)
I disagree, Peacock is by far the best at building bar. She might only build about 75-80% meter from most of her solo combos (which is still decent) but about 7 seconds of zoning builds a full bar. And don't even get me started when she has no meter, s.hp whiff into specials builds meter like nothing. s.hp whiff when under 1 bar builds at least 10% on it's own. If you're referring to just meter gain during combos than sure, Bella might be one of the best. Overall though? It's Peacock hands down even though I will admit, Bells's assist help others build lots of bar (excella and LNL for example)
To be very specific. i meant when performing combos. Let me edit the statement.
On the second frame of run startup you can cancel into:
Pummel Horse (LP + LK)
Runstop (LK OR LP)
Kanchou (MK OR MP)
Battle Butt (HK or HP)
Diamond Drop (QCF LP + LK)
TL;DR: Just do the input by holding forward and then holding MK and HK to get the fastest possible Kanchou, since LK and MK is runstop.
After the second frame, you can no longer cancel into Diamond Drop, you'll get pummel horse.
Yes, if you cancel from Tumbling Run into Diamond Drop, you basically get an armoured Diamond Drop if they poke you during that 1 - 2F window where you have armour, instead of just being throw invincible.
It's not that hard and you'll know when you got it because your frame data display will look like this when you do it perfectly:
2F for Run, rest for DD. (Right to Left)
How Kanchou works:
Turn on advanced hitboxes and look at the diamond on the ground, it's green if you're standing still.
This is your characters point, remember that. It's represented by the diamond on the floor.
Kanchou goes forward for 43 frames attempting to get behind the opponent.
Only frames 3 - 24 ignore collision boxes with the opponent to allow you to cross through them.
If your "point" travels behind and past the opponent in frame 3 - 24, and you are pressing the Kanchou input on that frame, you will be locked into the Kanchou follow up.
If you are not holding the input on this frame, she will be locked into the Kanchou fake out, which immediately ends the "ignore collision" frames and begins the slide away from the opponent.
The Kanchou fake out slide is 19F long.
You'll know which frame marks the start of the attackKanchou follow up because her eyes will look behind her at the opponent rather than forward at nothing.
The follow up of Kanchou is 14F startup, active on 15F.
Example:
If you look at Kanchou vs a crouching Double, it takes 6F for Cerebella to cross behind Double once she starts the Kanchou.
6F cross over + 14F start up from Kanchou attack + 1F from tumbling run = 21F of startup.
When you check the frame data display bar for this against Double, you'll see the red square for the active frame is placed on the 22nd block, which checks out.
Frames it takes to cross behind the opponent from Kanchou start against a STANDING OPPONENT, from DOWN BACKING as Cerebella, going into INSTANT RUN > INSTANT KANCHOU:
SQ :
5
FU / EL / MF / RF / PE / FI / PW / VA / PA :
6
BE / CE :
7
BB :
9
These numbers exclude the 1F from run start up.
You can do certain things to make your Kancho hit faster on a technicality, or it can just straight up be faster.
Technicality Example:
Doing Kanchou on Cerebella is 7F to cross behind when she's standing if you go from downback immediately to run with no gaps.
If you stand up for 1F beside the enemy Cerebella, and then you input Run > Instant Kanchou, you move ever so slightly closer to the opponent which lets you cross behind in 6F instead of 7F.
You just wasted 1F standing up of course, but it still hits faster!
Anyway, you can make your Kanchous hit the opponent faster by being closer to the opponent when you start it, through normals, movement and other junk.
How much time do you have to react to the average (6F cross over) Kanchou? Let's find out.
1F Run + 6F Slide + 14F Attack = 21F Startup, so you need to block by the 21st frame.
Skullgirls has 3.5F of input delay, so sometimes it's 3F and sometimes it's 4F.
Skullgirls has frameskip set to 5, which means every 5th frame is skipped.
The code for this frame runs and completes but it just doesn't display it visually, which increases the speed the game runs.
In 21F, you're going to be unable to see 4 of those frames due to frameskip. (20/5)
(21F Startup - 3F[Best possible input delay] - 4F[Frameskip] - xF[Whatever your controller input device input delay is]) =
14F to react to Kancho in the best possible conditions. [13F when input delay is 4F instead of 3F]
AKA do not feel bad if you get hit by this ?????
Take your result (200+ ms if you're not an alien) and divide by 16.666666666666 to get the result in frames.
When I'm doing good, I'm at ~12/13F reaction time, and I can block Kanchou on reaction when I have a pretty good feeling it's coming.
Having a partial read and then anticipating something and reacting to it once it starts will do infinitely better than "Oh whoa that's Kanchou I didn't expect that here it comes I better block in time!"
You also have the audio queue from Cerebella's Kanchou start, and I hear that audio queues are extremely helpful for reacting which makes it easier.
If you feel there is a mistake here in this breakdown, please let me know!
I'm always looking to learn and I just want to help the community : )
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
