Controller/Stick General Questions and Discussion

[Esanikun]

I thought creating a thread for people new to fighting games in general based on what controllers to use would be a good idea. Discussing affordable yet robust options would be great for everyone, not just beginners.

My question... would this work alright, at least to start out with? I'm a beginner, so I would love feedback!

http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Arcade-Fighting-Joystick-Playstation-3/dp/B0015PHMFU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378671936&sr=8-1&keywords=usb fightstick

 

[Jim]

What platform are you playing on? (PS3/Xbox/PC?)

 

[Icky]

I thought creating a thread for people new to fighting games in general based on what controllers to use would be a good idea. Discussing affordable yet robust options would be great for everyone, not just beginners.

My question... would this work alright, at least to start out with? I'm a beginner, so I would love feedback!

http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Arcade-Fighting-Joystick-Playstation-3/dp/B0015PHMFU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378671936&sr=8-1&keywords=usb fightstick

I have personal experience with that stick., I bought it when I was just learning and trying to figure out if I wanted to play on a stick or not. Now here's the deal, it doesn't feel much like a "real stick." The buttons have no feel when you push them (to the point where I was pressing them to hard and hurting my fingers) and the actual stick is very stiff and loud. After using it for about a month, I went and just bought a QANBA Q4RAF. So, I ended up feeling like I wasted my money on the mayflash. I mean, it worked well enough to figure out that I wanted to play on a stick, but it felt very very cheap and i was terrified of breaking it at any moment. Most people say to just buy an expensive stick, or don't buy any at all, I too was skeptical and ignored that advice, but I have to say that I agree with the people that say that sort of stuff.

 

[DukeMagus]

Not directly related, but does anyone know how to map the steam screenshot shortcut to the "PS" buton on ps3 controllers?

not the big picture gimmick (that's also bad), just press "PS"-take a screenshot

 

[Dorkmaster Flek]

Most people say to just buy an expensive stick, or don't buy any at all, I too was skeptical and ignored that advice, but I have to say that I agree with the people that say that sort of stuff.

Well not necessarily. I've heard the Mad Catz standard edition Street Fighter 4 sticks (the $60 ones) were pretty good for beginners, and easily modded if you want to swap in the arcade parts. Unfortunately, I think they stopped making those a while ago, and they're basically impossible to find. So I guess this may basically be true again, unless there's some other low cost stick that's decent quality. I lucked out myself and found a SFxTekken pro stick on a clearance sale for under $100 at a local PC shop. :D

Fortunately, if you're playing the PC version (which you totally should be because it gets updates first and should have the largest community by now) this game is totally playable with the keyboard. There are plenty of people that do quite well with a keyboard, because the game (like most fighters) relies entirely on digital inputs. Just make sure your keyboard is capable of having multiple keys pressed down at once! Most cheap keyboards can't handle more than like 3 usually. It takes some getting used to, but the only real danger is just hitting the wrong key because there's so many of them.

 

[Icky]

Well not necessarily. I've heard the Mad Catz standard edition Street Fighter 4 sticks (the $60 ones) were pretty good for beginners, and easily modded if you want to swap in the arcade parts.

When I was looking around those were upwards of $150+ The prices could've changed since then, but that's what I remember seeing

 

[Kiyobi]

I've seen some pictures of some ridiculous cases for arcade sticks... I'm assuming they've built it themselves, but where did they get the PCBs?

 

[DukeMagus]

ripped from standard controllers. some wires n' soldering and all done

 

[mazei]

Well from what I know about sticks, people say get a Brawlstick to figure out whether you want to use a stick or not, and then mod the Brawlstick when you do decide to jump on the stick boat.

But just like Icky, I have the Mayflash(Its right here next to me =D) and its just like he said, it feels pretty much like crap in comparison to a Qanba Q4 or a Hori RAP, but to me it did somewhat allow me to feel what a stick may be like as well as let me get used to the whole feel of using a stick compared to an XBox 360 controller. Though I wouldn't recommend people go through the same process as me and Icky, and rather just get a good stick from the start if they want to try one, because if at the end of the day you don't like the stick, I can easily see someone buying a barely used Qanba Q4.

However I also would like to say that a stick, while it is nice for fighting games, it is not necessary and that if someone only has a controller available to them, you can get pretty good with just a controller as well. There shouldn't be a need to pressure someone into getting a stick.

EDIT
Just as a note, I just ordered a Qanba Q4 myself and am just waiting for it to arrive =D

 

[Dorkmaster Flek]

When I was looking around those were upwards of $150+ The prices could've changed since then, but that's what I remember seeing

Well that may be because they're out of production now so they command a higher price on the used market. Although I'm not sure why, because for that price, you can get a Tournament Edition controller that uses the real arcade parts and is much better overall. Unless you were actually looking at a Tournament Edition controller in the first place. Mad Catz made two different SF4 controllers: a $60 standard edition, and $150 "tournament" edition.

However I also would like to say that a stick, while it is nice for fighting games, it is not necessary and that if someone only has a controller available to them, you can get pretty good with just a controller as well. There shouldn't be a need to pressure someone into getting a stick.

This is definitely true. Like I said, this game is very playable with a keyboard if you're on PC. In fact, I think that may actually be better than a gamepad. Since this is intended for new players, there are two main issues with the average gamepad:

1. Is the d-pad any good? If it's a 360 controller, the answer is hell no, but you can get other 3rd party controllers that have much better d-pads. The PS3 controller is popular for this reason, much better d-pad. Some people swear by the 360 analog stick, but I think such people are pretty rare. An analog stick has the problem of throw distance, where you have to move the stick a certain way in order to get the direction to read as "on". The game is based on digital inputs, so a digital input method is just going to work better.

2. The main issue: the face button/trigger configuration. Most gamepads have four face buttons. This game uses six buttons for standard attacks. There are some controllers that have six face buttons which people are fond of, like the Sega Saturn controller. Mad Catz also makes what they call "fightpads" which have two of the shoulder buttons moved over to the face for a six face button config instead, for exactly this purpose. These are much cheaper than a nice arcade stick, on par with a regular 360/PS3 controller I believe, and the 360 one has a much better d-pad than the stock controller obviously.

That having been said, some people find it awkward to do moves requiring multiple simultaneous button presses (throws, supers, tags, assists, etc) on a pad. Skullgirls in particular only ever requires a max of two buttons to be pressed at a time. There are no "all three punches/kicks" moves like the ultras in SF4, which helps when playing on a pad.

Then you have the Hit Box which is basically like an arcade stick, except it replaces the stick with four buttons for up, down, left and right. Think of it like a keyboard with only the buttons you need, so you don't hit others accidentally, and they're all giant sized. These have become more popular in recent years, and some pros swear by them. It's also about as expensive as a good stick, so maybe not the best idea for beginners, but it's out there.

 

[BGCallisto]

I've seen some pictures of some ridiculous cases for arcade sticks... I'm assuming they've built it themselves, but where did they get the PCBs?

You can either remove them from a pre-existing controller/stick, or there's several sites that sell stand-alone PCBs like the PS360+ that works on both systems out the box.

Well that may be because they're out of production now so they command a higher price on the used market. Although I'm not sure why, because for that price, you can get a Tournament Edition controller that uses the real arcade parts and is much better overall. Unless you were actually looking at a Tournament Edition controller in the first place. Mad Catz made two different SF4 controllers: a $60 standard edition, and $150 "tournament" edition.

Yeah, the SEs/Brawlsticks are out of production so the prices are jacked up to catch people who don't know what they're doing offguard and get them to overpay for a somewhat rare item. Previously the point of the SEs and BrawlSticks was that when on sale they ran for $20-40, and you could replace the stock parts with a JLF and OBSF-30s for about $40, leaving you with the same quality parts as a TE for $60-80. It's how I got started, and I still keep 2 Brawlsticks in my living room for when people come over(g/f keeps yelling at me to sell them since I also have an eightarc and TE now, lol).

At this point my advice to someone looking to get into using a stick or FGs in general is to wait for a major tournament like TFC this weekend, and scoop up whatever MadCatz stick falls to $80 with the coupon code. They're going to be quality for sure, are easily dual-modded, and retain resale value relatively well if you take care of it. If the player knows for sure they want to be in the offline competetive scene, then I tell them to go eightarc/Qanba Q4 all the way, dual modded out the box, great quality, and will be the same price as a newer MadCatz model TE equivalent.

 

[evilben]

... They're going to be quality for sure, are easily dual-modded, and retain resale value relatively well if you take care of it...

do note that if you want a dual mod it tends to be easier/cheaper to dual mod a 360 stick to work on ps3 rather than the other way around.

 

[BGCallisto]

Yeah, one of our local guys actually makes this guy for easily modding MadCatz 360 TEs and their newer equivalents...if you start with a PS3 and want it dual'd after time the easiest thing is to just gut it and replace the PCB with a PS360+, I got a BlazBlue TE for $50 and did that, nice dual stick for $110 total.

 

[Spencer]

I know the difference between good and bad stick/buttons. Hell, you can feel it.

What is the difference between good and low-to-mid PCB?

 

[BGCallisto]

I know the difference between good and bad stick/buttons. Hell, you can feel it.

What is the difference between good and low-to-mid PCB?

Generally issues with it desyncing from the console while still plugged in, or randomly dropping button inputs, the latter being pretty difficult to tell if it's the PCB or the button.

 

[DNort77]

Hey guys. I'm sorry to raise this thread from the dead but I felt like it was better than making a new one with the same topic.

I'm playing the game on a PC with an Xbox360 controller. As dorkmaster mentioned earlier the Dpad is pretty crap and it just doesn't feel right to me. I really want to get a stick/button layout because It reminds me of the arcade and I honestly feel like this is the way it was meant to be played.

I was looking at the joystick that the original poster linked to but apparently that stick leaves a lot to be desired, However these brawlsticks seem like they have gone WAY UP in price. Are their any other good 60-75 dollar alternatives? Also. If I get this stick (designed for Ps3) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...g=cheapassgam08-20&ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER Will this work on a PC? The xbox stick is 30 dollars more for what seems like no reason. I'll basically be playing the game exclusively on PC.

PS. I hope this isn't considered spam but maybe if someone has a good condition used stick they would not mind parting with I might be interested in buying it.

Thanks in advance for any replies! :)

Edit: Would I be better off with the WWE stick Or this stick? http://www.eightarc.com/qanba-q1-xbox360/

 

[Kiyobi]

The WWE stick by itself isn't the best. It was originally recommended because it was an amazing value foundation for modification.

Always go for quality. This is an investment and you want to put your money where it'll last for a long time to come. Qanba and MadCatz are the more popular quality brands that I remember off the top of my head.

 

[shoryusatsu999]

Hori is also known as a quality stick brand (in fact, they've recently started producing arcade sticks with high quality in-house sticks and buttons, which is very rare in the home arcade stick industry as most other companies use Sanwa or Seimitsu parts instead).

Regarding PC compatibility, PS3 sticks may require some non-native drivers, but 360 sticks should be plug-and-play for the most part.

 

[Kiyobi]

How do Hori's in-house parts stack up to Sanwa and Seimitsu? Kind of hard to beat tried-and-true arcade quality manufacturers.

 

[shoryusatsu999]

Based on some reviews from IPlayWinner and Shoryuken, the Hayabusa stick and Kuro buttons are easily comparable to their arcade counterparts - the Hayabusa is described as a cross between a Sanwa stick and a Seimitsu stick with a lot more customizability than either, and both Hayabusa and Kuro are advertised as lasting longer than normal parts. I believe Hori has somehow managed to get Taito to put some of their parts into actual Japanese arcade machines as well.

 

[Lagiacrus]

I've been hearing good things about the Sega Saturn controller and from what I've seen it's actually pretty inexpensive as well. Does anyone here use one because being that I am currently playing with my brother's xbox controller I feel that anything is an improvement at this point.

 

[DukeMagus]

hard to find a good and NEW sega saturn controller or a good copy of it.

but... yeah, some people say it's one of the best controllers for fighting games. the madcatz's fightpad series is based on it

 

[A.C.Galaga]

I go the "mod a junk stick" route. Get some stick that is cheap or junk and swap out the parts (easily ordered through Focusattack.com). I'm also just a casual player... so I probably won't drop 200 bucks on a stick anytime soon.

 

[tekkaxe]

I'll go a little broader than the immediate stick problem, but hopefully it helps others new to FGs. Others already mentioned it to various degrees, but you can play effectively on pad/stick/keyboard/hitbox/etc. The important thing is choosing the one that's most comfortable for you and having something of sufficient quality (so that it doesn't break, or so that it can read multiple inputs, etc)

I play on a pad and actually prefer it to stick, though for a number of people, it's the other way around. I spent a lot of time between stick and a ps2 pad in the MVC2 arcade days - my college had a cab. But I bring that up because it kinda brings me to my the main point I wanted to mention.

Consider where you plan on doing most of your playing when you decide on the type of controller to use. Pad was fine when I was playing on ps2 at home with friends. But if I wanted to hang in the arcades when I was on campus, or when me and friends went to Family Fun Arcade, I had to learn how to play stick, period. For MVC3, because I went back to playing pad (PS3), I was limited as far as competition. I could only battle folks on my console because I didnt own a converter.

For skullgirls, to make a longer story short, I'm able to use a PS4 pad on both the PC version and the PS3 version and it works like a dream. However, a dual modded 360/PS3 stick wouldn't really have much to worry about. They could jump between platforms with little worry.

Now if you don't really care about all that and mainly intend on doing netplay from your specific version, then obviously these issues are less important.

---

Lastly, for those that do choose a traditional pad instead of the 6-button fight pads, I'd encourage you to give claw-style grip a shot. It's a nice inbetween for pad and stick play with some nice benefits.

my button config is as follows: square=LP, triangle=MP, X=LK, circle=MK, L1=HP, R1=HK.

Instead of using my thumbs for the right face buttons, I tap the face buttons with my index finger (for X); middle finger (for Square); ring finger (for Triangle and Circle). I can easily input 'throw' (middle finger + Index finger), get easy two-button dashes (middle + ring), and then easily do PP/KK specials as needed (middle + ring again, across the "top" and "bottom" rows).

I still use my left thumb for the dpad, but I have Fierce punch mapped to L1 (I use my left index finger) and Heavy kick mapped to R1 (I use my right ring finger). It may sound a bit odd, but remember that when it comes to chaining, Heavy/Fierce are the end of the line, generally speaking. Finger gymnastics arent really occurring, as most of my time is on the face, with occasional shoulder taps.

So what do you have to give up in exchange for easy access to each button a la an arcade stick? Well, it takes a while to learn the most comfortable way to rest the controller on your thigh.... -_-

 

[A.C.Galaga]

I'll go a little broader than the immediate stick problem, but hopefully it helps others new to FGs. Others already mentioned it to various degrees, but you can play effectively on pad/stick/keyboard/hitbox/etc. The important thing is choosing the one that's most comfortable for you and having something of sufficient quality (so that it doesn't break, or so that it can read multiple inputs, etc)...

Totally agree. Play what is most comfortable for you. An arcade stick isn't going to make you a better player (it also takes time to get used to if you've been playing on a pad all this time)

The joints in my fingers pop and my thumb blisters easy on the d-pad. That's why I go with a stick (I also like tinkering and modding an arcade stick is a lot of fun). I've also had an arcade stick since NES so I guess it just feel more natural to me.

Spoiler: NES Advantage

 

[Brainy]

Not long ago I got an XBOX Controller, so I said "I'll surely kick some butt now!". I don't really like analog controllers for digital input (it has a "travel time" before it activates and sometimes I press diagonal instead of a direction), so I proceeded to use the D'Pad.
To my frustration, I couldn't get used to it, no matter how hard I tried (like 3 days straight), it just didn't feel like I have the desired control.
Later, I read that this controller's D'Pad is not that good, so I tried to "mod" it like grinding the circle so it has more space to move or put a piece of thin plastic between the buttons and the membrane, etc. It felt a bit better, but it still wasn't what I wanted.

In the end, I went back to using my good ol' keyboard and to my amazement, everything I tried on the controller and failed now just worked 100%.

My conclusion is that if you're used to playing with a type of input, just use that.

 

[Inferno]

Hitbox. All I gotta say.

 

[ChexGuy]

Damn. I'm a stick user myself but I can't argue against Kugimiya Power.

 

[Merlock]

Hitbox. All I gotta say.

agreed
I've been trying to get clear plexi for mine but nobody will get back to me about it
that doesn't look too bad though
did you have to take the whole thing apart to get the plexi off or is the top only held on by those plastic stoppers -- I haven't bothered to try to dismantle mine yet

 

[Hilary]

If you want to play on a playstation pad, I'd recommend InPin PS1/PS2 to USB adapter and a Playstation 1 controller.

The SRK guys that tested input lag and compatibility found that the PS1 Dual-Shock was the most reliable, but I haven't had any problems with my non-DS PS1 pad at all on PS3 SG or PC SG.

 

[Inferno]

agreed
I've been trying to get clear plexi for mine but nobody will get back to me about it
that doesn't look too bad though
did you have to take the whole thing apart to get the plexi off or is the top only held on by those plastic stoppers -- I haven't bothered to try to dismantle mine yet

It's made through the same way the original art is. I am good friends with the Hitbox guys and I had them get the plexi done with my art

 

[Funkermonster]

Hitbox. All I gotta say.

Why is the button so far away from the other movement buttons? That doesn't sound so awesome at all!

 

[ChexGuy]

I think you're supposed to use either thumb.

 

[Vadsamoht]

I think you're supposed to use either thumb.

Yes, you do. Apparently it's really comfortable once you get used to it, but I prefer my WASD layout anyday.

 

[ChexGuy]

That reminds me, I saw a customized hitbox somewhere that actually had a WASD/arrowkey-style layout for the movement buttons.

 

[Vadsamoht]

That would be mine. I'll link a picture in a minute.

EDIT: I posted a picture here, which is probably the better place for showing off pictures.
Also moving this thread to the hardware section, but leaving a redirect in the beginner section.

 

[Funkermonster]

But how do you move so fast and fluenltly with only ur thumbs? How long does it take to get used to one of these?

And the attack buttons.. they look so close to ther movement buttons (exept the jumping one)

 

[Vadsamoht]

You can try it out yourself - boot up SG or another game on PC, and set your keyboard to Q=left, W=down, E=right (or ASD if you prefer, but that looks a little cramped), and Space=up. It definitely feels weird the first time and you'll stuff up your jump combos to begin with, but it feels more natural after a while.

 

[Inferno]

I would use WER. And yes it is a little weird at first, but once you get the hang of it, it is really comfortable. It looks far away but the placement is really natural feeling for both thumbs. It is based off of a keyboard. Honestly if you want to try it out or whatnot and you are going to EVO you can always test out mine and see for yourself.

 

[Lagiacrus]

So this arrived in my mail today, and while getting it to work for me was a bit finicky, I'm rather happy with it. It's not evident from the picture but the controller is very small and incredibly light to the point where the wire weighs more than the controller itself. The D-Pad is very responsive and performing moves like Brass Knuckle and the like is a lot easier. I'll give further judgement as I toy around with it a bit more.