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Don't BS me, how HARD is this game?

FGC _Blaze said:
I just hate watching my character get its ass beat over and over again


I don't want to push or anything, but IMO you should keep in mind that you have to learn to enjoy that if you want to get the most out of any competitive game. Even beyond fighting games (rts, fps, speed running, shmups, arcade games, team based stuff, etc.) all definitely involve that "YOU DIED" type of mentality.
 
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FGC _Blaze said:
The game is good, but, but trying to play a new fighting game is not for me right now. I just hate watching my character get its ass beat over and over again, which is not fun, so I'm going to stop playing, but I appreciate the overall civility, and helpfulness of the thread. If you guys can keep the same attitude towards new players your scene will def. grow.


Hey dude, I'm a new member/beginner as well so I thought I'd chime in as I've gone through a similar experience. When I picked up SG I was coming from a Street Fighter background ( I tried MvC3 when it first came out for about 2 weeks but couldn't stand it ), so I'm used to the slower paced 1 character mindset, playing footsies and not needing to learn too crazy of combos. Anyway, playing Skullgirls was extremely frustrating at first since I would watch videos online of people doing 100+ hit combos, yet I can barely manage 10 hit combos, and my god was the game FAST. Since then I've been playing for maybe 2-4 weeks off and on and I've certainly gotten a lot better than when I started, so these are my tips to getting past the initial hump of sucking:

1. Baby steps - Like people have said, you're not training for EVO, so don't worry about how insanely good those guys are, focus on making a small goal and trying to accomplish it. Try to land 1 BnB combo in a match setting, try and kill 1 character on a 2 or 3 girl team, try and block this guys mix-ups. All of these little goals are progress. In my first 30 matches I could make a fist and still count the number of wins on that hand, but I've gotten better throughout the losses and I've learned a lot by getting my ass beat. If somebody is combo-ing me, then go for a reset and I'm able to block or throw tech...my god that's a victory in my book right now.

I also had a big problem of trying to learn a combo in training mode, then jumping into online mode only to get bodied. Even if I did get 1-2 opportunities to combo, I was so rushed I couldn't even concentrate. Practice your combo, Then practice it against the computer. Yes the computer will let you get away with things you shouldn't get away with, but it will also provide great hit-confirm practice at real-time gameplay speeds. Play the story/arcade mode on Nightmare mode, if you can confidently beat the CPU here then you can play online. Plus this will give you a chance to get more comfortable.

2. Don't use quick match - Not right away at least, since the matchmaking isn't exactly fair ( I got paired up against Guitalex my first week playing the game....FML ) but I would recommend going to the matchmaking threads on here and trying to friend some people of equal skill level, or if you are doing quick match and come across someone that you consider equal skill, FRIEND THEM!!!! Also, I know a lot of times ( on PSN at least ) there's no Unranked Lobbies, just create one for Beginners and chill for a bit...someone will join you. Plus, this community is one of the better ones if you ask me, I'm sure a lot of intermediate-advanced players would be happy to spar and let you get a better feel for things.

3. If you haven't already ( and i haven't read every post so maybe this was already mentioned ) check out the Beginner Resources thread article "10 detailed steps how2get better at skullgirls" -> http://skullgirls.com/forums/index....ailed-steps-how2get-better-at-skullgirls.681/ - This helped me out tremendously, not only with Skullgirls but fighting games in general, a lot of it is common sense stuff that you forget about and sometimes handle incorrectly, so it's always nice to keep this stuff in mind.

4. The game WILL slow down - When I first started playing I couldn't keep up with how much crap was happening on screen, it was literally a blur to me. Give it time, once you gain more experience and understand what the characters are doing and WHY they're doing it, the game will seem a lot more manageable and you'll find yourself being able to handle more situations.

5. Don't give up :) If I can get better at this game, so can you

Sorry for the wall of text post, but hopefully one beginner to another I can help keep you motivated to play.

Anyway, I plan on picking up the game for Steam fairly soon ( since it seems like majority of players are on Steam + all the beta updates and what not ) so I'll gladly play with you, trust me there will be no TOD combos and you'll get plenty of opportunity to practice offense.

Hope this helps
 
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I don't know if you've tried it but I got into a local weekly SG meetup. This game, like so many, is really best when played with people not two feet from you, no lag, and preferably a couple of drinks. It can take hours and I mean HOURS of play before you start to "get" the flow of a game like this and you pick up on it much faster and have a lot (I mean a LOT) more fun when it's with someone you know isn't just some faceless jerk on the other side of the Internet.

Check your local meetup groups and if there isn't a SG meetup post one, you might be surprised. You make friends, play regularly, and you get better. Another bit is that it helps you get over the, "dammit I lost, I'm a LOSER," feeling you get playing online when you finally find people better than you. Nobody in a local group is going to be the worst ALL the time, everyone gets better together, and really do you wanna be the best in the world or the best to people you know who actually give a **** about you? If you pick the latter you're going to have a lot more fun than the former as the former is a JOB.
 
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this game was hard from the get go, but for me, its that strive to "git gud" and be competitive. also, just ask for advice and tips. Local is really the best way to do this, have fun, talk shit and ask for advice. thats what i do at salty and rebel up.
 
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"Git good" is a derogatory word for new players. :)
 
FGC _Blaze said:
"Git good" is a derogatory word for new players. :)

The main aim of every competitive player should be to "git gud", not just new players. It's about making a serious effort to adapt and improve instead of complaining about how things are. It's only negative if you're not interested in competing, I guess.

Also, it helps that when that's said and you're given advice with it, you don't shoot that advice down. I see that happen too often and it just results in nobody wanting to give you advice in the future (not directed at anybody in particular).
 
ClarenceMage said:
no, git gud means take legitimate effort to become proficient at what you're doing instead of complaining
It's still not a good advice because it doesn't offer any tips or how to improve. It just means "just get better. I don't know how but that's not my problem"
 
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It is both.


Used against beginners in a deragatory manner, when they complain about something.

Used by "good" players to insult themself as a form of self inflicted punishment as a way to try and motivate themselves to learn.


We all need to "git gud" in one form or another, but still, purposefully misspelling a form of advice in order to make the advice "understandable" (or whatever) isnt the best way to encourage players to get good.



This thread has more than run its purpose though. You can either buckle down and make yourself better, or not. All this whining is counterproductive to learning and this thread is just a place for decent players to bash on baddies and where nothing constructive actually happens.

I move for this thread to be locked @Vadsamoht @worldjem @Zidiane

Because what can be said in here that already hasnt been?
 
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May be best to get threads like this locked earlier? So we don't have five pages of the same thing spanning months?
 
EA575 said:
It's still not a good advice because it doesn't offer any tips or how to improve. It just means "just get better. I don't know how but that's not my problem"

This entire thread, and this entire forum is full of advice and information. People are available to message for advice on specific situations or whatever you want help with. The resources are there, but someone who needs to git gud needs to actually put in their own effort to do so.
 
ClarenceMage said:
This entire thread, and this entire forum is full of advice and information. People are available to message for advice on specific situations or whatever you want help with. The resources are there, but someone who needs to git gud needs to actually put in their own effort to do so.
I'm saying the phrase "git gud" isn't a good advice
 
"Git gud" isn't necessarily bad advice, and it's not even annoying because it's vague. It's annoying to newcomers because it doesn't tell you why you've just been given a vague and dismissive answer.

The following is a bit of a ramble (and possibly wrong), but should explain my reasoning:

Thesis: "Git Gud" shows that you aren't being specific enough in the help you're asking for.

Consider the following:
Situation 1: A player goes on to an IRC channel, message board, local meeting, etc. and asks a specific question along the lines of "Is Painwheel's cr.MK safe on block?"
Situation 2: Another player goes to a similar place and asks "How do I beat Filia players?"

In the first situation, I doubt you'd ever hear someone reply with "Git Gud". The move is -5, so someone familiar with the character will probably reply with 'no'. In the second situation it's easy to see someone replying with "Git Gud" simply because answering the question properly would not just take ages, it would essentially amount to explaining the entire game and meta-game to the questioner - knowledge that does, in fact, amount to getting good at the game in some respects.

Assuming I'm right in this there are two solutions to this problem - one each for the questioner and answerer. The person answering the question could reply "There's no real way of answering that, what exactly are you having trouble with?", but this won't happen in the majority of cases because it's easier to go for the lulzy answer and in reality it makes no difference to them if the other player actually solves their problem or not. The person asking the question has an easier way of getting a better answer - rephrase the question in more specific terms. For example, "How do I beat Filia?" might be better expressed as "Does Fortune have any tools to deal with a Filia that keeps running/hairballing away?". That's not to say that it's always easy to put the question in terms that are as clear as that, but if you're asking a (presumably better) player to take the time to help you then you owe it to them to take the time to think about what you actually want help with.

This advice also holds true in other areas. If you were to go into a university's math department and ask one of the available teaching staff to explain problem 'x' because you don't understand it, I guarantee any decent teacher would reply with "Which part don't you understand?". If you answer this with "I don't understand the whole thing", then their response will either be "Try working through the problem first, then come and see me again" (equivalent to "Git Gud") or else to run through a sample solution step by step to try and isolate what you don't understand in order to clarify that.​
 
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Yo yo... +5 is TOTALLY safe on block.


#justHADtobethatguy
 
I find the "git gud" suggestion usually doesn't come until after sound advice has already been given and summarily ignored because it's not what that particular person asking wanted to hear or coincides with their current opinion.

Kinda like this thread here.
 
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Dime_x said:
Yo yo... +5 is TOTALLY safe on block.


#justHADtobethatguy
Erp, I typo'd. PW's cr.MK is -5 on block. Fixed now.
 
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So the 2nd situation can be better resolved if the one answering the question can just ask "Well what do you need help with" and if the one asking the question doesn't know where to start, according to the teacher example, the first person could say "try working through the problem first, then come see me again." "Git gud" is a vague response because it doesn't specify where to get good at. Are they talking about their mix-ups? Their blocking? Their use of meter? If the one wanting to get better specifies their issue(s) and they still get the response "git gud," then there's not point in seeking advice in the first place. If they don't know where they are having issues, then they should find out what their issues are first before seeking advice.
 
More or less, though I'd argue that the correct response for fighting games isn't "try working through the problem first, then come see me again", because that basically translates to "go get destroyed online some more". more appropriate would be a nicer-worded version of "Ask me again when you've got something more specific you want help with".

The FG version of sitting down and working through a math problem would be both players playing a few games online with the aim of finding out what aspects of the game/matchup/whatever are troubling the questioner. But in a lot of cases the reaction here would be
aint-nobody-got-time-for-that.png
 
It's easy just mash, you'll get some wins.
 
Vadsamoht said:
More or less, though I'd argue that the correct response for fighting games isn't "try working through the problem first, then come see me again", because that basically translates to "go get destroyed online some more". more appropriate would be a nicer-worded version of "Ask me again when you've got something more specific you want help with".

The FG version of sitting down and working through a math problem would be both players playing a few games online with the aim of finding out what aspects of the game/matchup/whatever are troubling the questioner. But in a lot of cases the reaction here would be
aint-nobody-got-time-for-that.png
I'd put in some time. Whenever I have 10+ matches, I ask the player I played against what I did right and wrong, and they would take their time to respond and address all rights and wrongs. I build my game around the advice which was given to me.
This video will help me explain a lot. I watch it every time I go through a flurry of losses :)
 
Vadsamoht said:
More or less, though I'd argue that the correct response for fighting games isn't "try working through the problem first, then come see me again", because that basically translates to "go get destroyed online some more". more appropriate would be a nicer-worded version of "Ask me again when you've got something more specific you want help with".

The FG version of sitting down and working through a math problem would be both players playing a few games online with the aim of finding out what aspects of the game/matchup/whatever are troubling the questioner. But in a lot of cases the reaction here would be

So far I've found this to not work. Doing this online has a nearly 100% failure rate for me and they seem to pretty much lose interest. You really need to sit down with them in person.
 
By 'not working', do you mean you haven't been able to solve their problem or that you can eventually give them an answer to their question but they either ignore it or drop it completely afterwards anyway?
 
Vadsamoht said:
The FG version of sitting down and working through a math problem would be both players playing a few games online with the aim of finding out what aspects of the game/matchup/whatever are troubling the questioner.
I've actually done this a couple times.

Also, I'm sorry, Vad, I had to. (check your thesis post)

You can change it back, but it was too good to pass up. lol
 
Vadsamoht said:
By 'not working', do you mean you haven't been able to solve their problem or that you can eventually give them an answer to their question but they either ignore it or drop it completely afterwards anyway?
The second point, it is difficult to express key concepts without being able to show directly. Using VoIP or something might help in that regard, but I've also had a terrible strike rate of people I try to teach online just give up throw it in my face and ultimately I feel like I've wasted my time or worse, exacerbate their negative feelings towards the game.
 
theDMAGS said:
Hey dude, I'm a new member/beginner as well so I thought I'd chime in as I've gone through a similar experience. When I picked up SG I was coming from a Street Fighter background ( I tried MvC3 when it first came out for about 2 weeks but couldn't stand it ), so I'm used to the slower paced 1 character mindset, playing footsies and not needing to learn too crazy of combos. Anyway, playing Skullgirls was extremely frustrating at first since I would watch videos online of people doing 100+ hit combos, yet I can barely manage 10 hit combos, and my god was the game FAST. Since then I've been playing for maybe 2-4 weeks off and on and I've certainly gotten a lot better than when I started, so these are my tips to getting past the initial hump of sucking:

1. Baby steps - Like people have said, you're not training for EVO, so don't worry about how insanely good those guys are, focus on making a small goal and trying to accomplish it. Try to land 1 BnB combo in a match setting, try and kill 1 character on a 2 or 3 girl team, try and block this guys mix-ups. All of these little goals are progress. In my first 30 matches I could make a fist and still count the number of wins on that hand, but I've gotten better throughout the losses and I've learned a lot by getting my ass beat. If somebody is combo-ing me, then go for a reset and I'm able to block or throw tech...my god that's a victory in my book right now.

I also had a big problem of trying to learn a combo in training mode, then jumping into online mode only to get bodied. Even if I did get 1-2 opportunities to combo, I was so rushed I couldn't even concentrate. Practice your combo, Then practice it against the computer. Yes the computer will let you get away with things you shouldn't get away with, but it will also provide great hit-confirm practice at real-time gameplay speeds. Play the story/arcade mode on Nightmare mode, if you can confidently beat the CPU here then you can play online. Plus this will give you a chance to get more comfortable.

2. Don't use quick match - Not right away at least, since the matchmaking isn't exactly fair ( I got paired up against Guitalex my first week playing the game....FML ) but I would recommend going to the matchmaking threads on here and trying to friend some people of equal skill level, or if you are doing quick match and come across someone that you consider equal skill, FRIEND THEM!!!! Also, I know a lot of times ( on PSN at least ) there's no Unranked Lobbies, just create one for Beginners and chill for a bit...someone will join you. Plus, this community is one of the better ones if you ask me, I'm sure a lot of intermediate-advanced players would be happy to spar and let you get a better feel for things.

3. If you haven't already ( and i haven't read every post so maybe this was already mentioned ) check out the Beginner Resources thread article "10 detailed steps how2get better at skullgirls" -> http://skullgirls.com/forums/index....ailed-steps-how2get-better-at-skullgirls.681/ - This helped me out tremendously, not only with Skullgirls but fighting games in general, a lot of it is common sense stuff that you forget about and sometimes handle incorrectly, so it's always nice to keep this stuff in mind.

4. The game WILL slow down - When I first started playing I couldn't keep up with how much crap was happening on screen, it was literally a blur to me. Give it time, once you gain more experience and understand what the characters are doing and WHY they're doing it, the game will seem a lot more manageable and you'll find yourself being able to handle more situations.

5. Don't give up :) If I can get better at this game, so can you

Sorry for the wall of text post, but hopefully one beginner to another I can help keep you motivated to play.

Anyway, I plan on picking up the game for Steam fairly soon ( since it seems like majority of players are on Steam + all the beta updates and what not ) so I'll gladly play with you, trust me there will be no TOD combos and you'll get plenty of opportunity to practice offense.

Hope this helps
To me, my biggest issue I'd that I don't learn anything, and I really mean nothing at all, by constantly losing over and over again. All I get is pretty much "get better, found out more yourself". How is that supposed to teach me anything
 
The games are too difficult to have fun with as a beginner. There is no fun in losing constantly.
 
FGC _Blaze said:
The games are too difficult to have fun with as a beginner. There is no fun in losing constantly.
I think that's pretty subjective and depends on the person. There would be no high level players if we weren't having fun improving and learning the ropes of the game.
I know I was having fun getting bodied and reading guides and collecting knowledge.
 
FGC _Blaze said:
The games are too difficult to have fun with as a beginner. There is no fun in losing constantly.
So, what, are you not going to play anymore?

Well, whatever. It was nice having you. Hope you have fun with whatever game you try next.
 
When you're a beginner, every little step is a great joy.
I remember when I landed my first decent combo on training, when I won my first quick match, when I won against Nuuance (I even printed this shit), when I won against some guys that I play with, when I won against A Kind Hobo (taught me the whole game basics), etc.
Being a beginner is more fun than being an expert.
 
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You just gotta play against those around your skill or who's willing to go easy on you :PUN:
 
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@WindWolf , @FGC _Blaze - I think both you guys would greatly benefit from playing some longer sets with equally skilled opponents, next time I'm on steam I'll add you guys ( or add me, my info should be to the left ) and we should play, assuming lag isn't an issue. I'm still a beginner and will give gladly advice afterwards on whatever I can.
 
Colossi said:
Being a beginner is more fun than being an expert.
Getting told "git gud" but nothing more as a beginner is not fun whatsoever
 
keninblack said:
It also sucks when a more seasoned player gives advice other than "git good" and the newer player doesn't fucking listen anyway.
I've taken at least 3 people I can remember into training room and tried to explain what I know for multiple hours before being told Skullgirls sucks and only seeing them pop up again to reaffirm themselves it "still sucks"

I think teaching people online is a lost cause unless you skype call them.
 
WindWolf said:
Getting told "git gud" but nothing more as a beginner is not fun whatsoever
The issue has already been thoroughly addressed. Can we perhaps establish an extraordinary rule that people answering to the thread will read and consider the posts that are already in it. Going in circles is as fun as it is pointless and benefiting no one.
 
Aside from playing Smash by myself growing up and a very little bit of SFIVAE vs the CPU, Skullgirls was my first in depth experience with a fighting game and my first real experience with a competitive gaming scene.

I started with the PC release. When I started, I had no internet for.. the first month? So I played through the story modes and arcade on different difficulties. I played the entire roster. When I got online the first time by taking my laptop somewhere, I started doing Quick Matches. I got destroyed, but I also won some games. Mind you, I was mashing so hard you wouldn't believe. I had no idea what I thought I was supposed to do, I just picked Fortune and started swirling the stick on my 360 pad and pressing every button I could.

That went on, honestly, for 2-3 months I think. (Some people probably think this is still what I do.) I had days with winning streaks and days with losing streaks. People say don't play solo in this game and the reasons are all good and such but if you're struggling with a team because you're defending against the crazy offense in this game and making one mistake and losing 1-2 characters at a time for it, seriously try a solo experience too. I didn't move to teams for a while. I suggest Fortune, Cerebella, or Filia. But pick who you want, some people do well with Valentine and such. A lot of good players moved from solo to duo to trio. I like playing all three formations and I like playing most of the roster. If you're playing solo and dying to the pressure, try a team and use a powerful assist to demand some sort of respect in the neutral game so that you can buy yourself time to think, it's a good strategy at lower levels of play while you're learning if you need that sort of thing. Run Cerecopter. If you run into fights way above your level, at least try to remain calm and examine the situation to figure out what's happening. Especially if they're playing the character you are, learn from them!

At some point, I started playing Parasoul and I learned my first combo and from there I started playing other characters online and trying out teams. I've had to learn all about the mechanics with no prior knowledge of fighting games except 'press buttons win sometimes.' I've had to figure out what resets are and what it means to know a combo and improvise one, what combo efficiency is, what chains are, etc. I had to get a lot of book knowledge AND experience and put it together to get places.

I've come a long way and I still have to learn new things all the time, in the last month I've gotten relatively frustrated here and there but I've had friends in the community to help me get through it and solve my problems.

This entire community is learning together right now. We all have weaknesses and unexplored potential.

This game is easy and hard. It's very fast. You will be confused with a lot of stuff until it happens so many times it just clicks with you what is happening and what to do. Sometimes it takes a long time to click. Sometimes you need personal help to figure it out. Sometimes you need to do it yourself. I'm still weak to Filia and Fortune because I don't actually know how to play them so I don't understand what they're doing and I get bopped. Knowledge of the game mechanics AND each character is very important. I stopped getting crossed up by Valentine as much when I learned how to cross people up as Valentine.

Be prepared to devote a lot of time to getting anywhere in this game and finding out what 'hard' really is! Sometimes you'll find out hard is specific to you. You'll find players that always give you a hard time, or characters perhaps. The fun is in overcoming these challenges. (I also have fun screwing around in the lab and making combos and tech. There are sub-hobbies to be had with this game.)
 
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I just want in-game matchmaking. Is that too much to ask for
 
Unfortunately it is. People want low ping matches and skill-based matchmaking. As far as I'm aware, the second is already in quickmatch, in the sense of "1. whoever closest to your rank is available; 2. If no one from '1' is around then whoever is available at all". '1' hardly ever happens because too few players simultaneously play quickmatch at any given time. If the system were more restrictive and matched you only with players around your rank, chances are you'd hardly ever get any games at all.

That being said, you are responsible for your own matchmaking. You want to play someone on your level (or better players willing to hold back) and that's understandable, but you have to find those people yourself (via quickmatch or Steam groups), befriend them and spar with them in lobbies.
 
WindWolf said:
I just want in-game matchmaking. Is that too much to ask for
yes, since labzero has no time or money to implement something for a game like this.
 
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