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Fortune Technology: Resets, Mixups, etc.

So like iad j.HP instant j.hp is a fuzzy guard setup against fillia, fortune, squigly, parasoul, double and big band. It also technically works on peacock and valentine but it's way harder. But yeah this let's you do j.HP 66 j.HP axekick as a combo starter/triple overhead.
 
What resets you guys find yourself using most often? For me:

Head on/head off: j.MK (1hit), j.HP/ j.HK to force the opponent to fast fall and do low, crossunder low, j.HP, or IAD j.HP is amazing until your opponent knows its coming and can stop it

Head on: In your bnb, LK Fiber Upper, j.LP, j.MP is arguably the best high low reset you can do. c.LK or IAD j.HP. IAD j.HP is stupid good in general. Against certain characters you can ground dash/air dash under them, like @Camail showed us, but it only works against certain character weights. LK Fiber Upper, j.LP, j.MP is probably the safest reset Fortune has.

After a j.HP hit, why not do another IAD j.HP? Go hog wild!

Head off:

Red Savarin special is a true 50/50 which makes it always effective. You could technically do this head on but its way better head off.

j.LP, j.MP ADC j.MP to trigger red burst OR air throw.

During sandwich combos, just throwing somebody and then, zoom, nom, is good, but you can also El Gato them, do sneeze and do a crossunder, or, if you're feeling really frisky, do a fuzzy guard j.LK ADC j.LK, Axe kick and start a combo that way. Head off fortune's minimum airdash height is high now so that one's a bit riskier, but its a good reset because it will never combo normally.

In the corner: MP Rekka, Headbutt: throw or low or El Gato (shoutouts to @KhaosMuffins this one is godlike)

Headbutt, LK Fiber Upper, j.LP axe kick as a crossover/fake crossover is something I want to mess with. Seems risky but could be good.
 
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It requires HP Updo assist but:
-- cr.hp xx MP Rekka + Call Updo
It makes the Updo crossup and if they block it, they have to land blocking on the same side if they don't airdash out or come down mashing.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
What resets you guys find yourself using most often? For me:

Head on/head off: j.MK (1hit), j.HP/ j.HK to force the opponent to fast fall and do low, crossunder low, j.HP, or IAD j.HP is amazing until your opponent knows its coming and can stop it

Head on: In your bnb, LK Fiber Upper, j.LP, j.MP is arguably the best high low reset you can do. c.LK or IAD j.HP. IAD j.HP is stupid good in general. Against certain characters you can ground dash/air dash under them, like @Camail showed us, but it only works against certain character weights. LK Fiber Upper, j.LP, j.MP is probably the safest reset Fortune has.

After a j.HP hit, why not do another IAD j.HP? Go hog wild!

Head off:

Red Savarin special is a true 50/50 which makes it always effective. You could technically do this head on but its way better head off.

j.LP, j.MP ADC j.MP to trigger red burst OR air throw.

During sandwich combos, just throwing somebody and then, zoom, nom, is good, but you can also El Gato them, do sneeze and do a crossunder, or, if you're feeling really frisky, do a fuzzy guard j.LK ADC j.LK, Axe kick and start a combo that way. Head off fortune's minimum airdash height is high now so that one's a bit riskier, but its a good reset because it will never combo normally.

In the corner: MP Rekka, Headbutt: throw or low or El Gato (shoutouts to @KhaosMuffins this one is godlike)

Headbutt, LK Fiber Upper, j.LP axe kick as a crossover/fake crossover is something I want to mess with. Seems risky but could be good.
ok whoever uses the jmp > jmp burst bait should reallly learn to actually block. because countless times i'm catching people with fukua's j hk and its getting silly
 
Head on (in no particular order):
-After lk fiber you can AD j.hp for a cross up.
-The [lk fiber j.lp, j.mk(1), j.hp dash s.hk] fast fall cross under works on everyone but double/bb (I checked it works on eliza too). This fast fall cross under also works if you do a fast fall with your second chain after a launcher but its not as fast.
-Her ground throw might suck but for her air throw she can do a meterless conversion with a falling j.hp into a decent combo because god bless the new j.hp. combos are easier in the corner but still viable midscreen with [j.hp, cr.lk, s.mk(1), cr.hp].
-You can restand a ground throw in the corner with [xx mk fiber j.hp ad j.hp mk axekick], I don't know of any better way to start off a corner throw combo and its really easy.

-Fortune has decent fuzzy guard set ups from the air because of how fast j.hp pulls them down, and j.lk will catch everyone during their crouching animation. i like to j.hp, land first, wait a few frames, then instant overhead j.lk the frames are essentially just pre-jump+8. This reset is pretty nice because you are heading towards the ground/on the ground for so long after a j.hp that people will react with downback and block low while there character starts to crouch.

-In general, any point where your combo uses j.hp close to the ground is a great place for a mix up that catches them auto-piloting their defense.
-Her IAD throw isn't as dumb as filia's but it still exists!
-[jf.lk, ad, j.lp xx lk axekick] is a really nice mix up, the jf.lk is an instant overhead, the j.lp CAN be a cross up but its dependent on the set up you used before the mix up. There are distances where all 3 hits combo if the j.lk hits, but the j.lp would still be considered a cross up. There is a chance that the j.lp will not cross up but you still change sides. The only way to tell is to practice it.

-plain old iad j.lk can work if you aren't abusing it as an approach.
 
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Yea I'm double posting, come at me bro. *pops collar*

You can do like a billion things off lk/mk fiber. The resets I find the the least developed are her air throw resets, This is probably because she used to play mostly headless, where you used the otg quite frequently, or when head on used the otg immediately. Now that we can do entire combos without the otg it frees us to use the meterless conversion that costs an otg. Additionally, she has a number of ways to change the timing of the reset so we should probably make it a point to include those in our offense. Seeing as the only two options for beating a tight airthrow is teching or reversal super, if you keep hitting someone with air throws they will be much more prone to reversal super and it makes baiting supers a hell of a lot easier.

Here are the ways she can land an air throw into a combo; most of these work from any launcher but my primary testing launcher was lk fiber.

fiber, throw (the conversion is really tight here)
fiber, j.lp, j.mk(1), j.hp, rejump, throw (fast fall)
fiber, j.mk(2), ad throw
fiber, j.mk(2), throw (the only reason to use this one is if you have them trained to watch out for an AD after the j.mp(2))
fiber, j.lp, j.mk(1), j.hp, ad throw (fake fastfall, airdashing very quickly after you hit the j.hp, sometimes crosses under)
fiber, j.mp,j.hp, ad throw (my favorite because lol j.hp hitstun)
mk/hk fiber, j.lp, j.hp, ad throw (sadly, doesn't work with lk fiber or cr.hp)
cr.hp xx lk fiber, ad throw (oldy but a goody)
cr.hp xx lk fiber, j.lp, j.mp, rejump throw (pseudo fast fall)
fiber, j.mp, j.hp, ad j.lp, j.mp, rejump throw (" ")


Most importantly, you can do most of these from cr.hp or even headless s.hk. Mixing up your launchers will make it harder for them to recognize that you might throw. There are also the situational burst bait throws, any of the fast fall throws can double as burst bait throws. They aren't perfect but we really don't need them to be, mashers don't get frame perfect bursts.

Over all if you can get really good at the air throw conversion then your air reset game is terrifying.

Misc. tech:
-[Instant over head j.hp, j.hk, hk axe kick, st.hp, rekka2, slide, otg] works on Big Band, Double,(Squigly kinda), Ms. Fortune, and Parasoul. That's a high damage instant over head starter.
-In the corner you can airthrow and do a forward dash, if they tech backwards you cross up. You can do it off regular throw too but its more likely they will be teching backwards off an airthrow because the set up is so much tighter.
- The best set up I've found for the above side switch is [lk fiber, throw, ad throw wiff, cr.mp, st.mk, cr.hp]. The cr.mp is mostly for timing and for its ability to hit both sides, so if your character doesn't flip during the sideswitch the combo will still work.
-[Instant overhead j.lk, ad j.hp xx mk axekick, cr.hp] is pretty easy (7 frame link) and it makes the IO j.lk that much more useful, don't have to break IPS with a lk/lp starter.
-If you need to do AD throw really quickly, hit LP+LK+MP twice and it will come out right. This makes life so much easier.
- [lk fiber, j.lp, j.lk, j.mp, dash s.hk] is a stupidly tight cross under that works on everyone but double and big band (it works on double if you get a grounded air dash, which you can do if you dash right when the j.mp connects).
-Headless cross under [lk fiber, j.lp, j.lk, j.mp, dash s.mk xx lk fiber] the s.mk doesn't acutally hit, its just pushing you to the other side, so get that dp out quickly. Sadly you can't overhead because el gato doesn't auto correct (I don't know why...)
 
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I have a cerebella specific reset. It's j.MP j.MK(1) AD j.hp/j.hk/airthrow. The j.hp crosses under in the air. The j.hk has to be timed differently but it hits crossup and also overhead. The airthrow is really hard to convert off of but it looks like the j.hp crossunder at first so it gives you a mixup.

Anyway here's the j.hp reset 5 times in a row.
 
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Found out a good undizzy burst in my rekka loop combo that doesn't make green sparks appear!. The timing on doing the actual combo is strict but i decided to put this on here. This doesn't work for Big band and Double i don't know about bella too lazy to try it.

Edit:
J.Hk - J.H.Axe - Headbutt
S.Lp x2 - S.Mk - Rekka - Headbutt - S.Mk - Rekka - Headbutt - S.Mp
S.Mk - Rekka - S.Lp x2 - S.Lk - S.Mp - S.Mk - Rekka - Nom Nom Nom
Stand back - Cr.Lk - Stay crouching.

 
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the burst hits the head, it doesn't work.
 
CaioLugon said:
the burst hits the head, it doesn't work.

Urggg you are right they can block after that

BUT you can still make it work

By doing Cr.Lk right before they are able to burst

The head gets away safe and if you keep crouching you won't get hit if you are far enough.

I will replace the video with the above added tomorrow
 
Even though I've documented quite a few air throw set ups, there is plenty of work to be done. In addition to finding more set ups I'm also making a spreadsheet where I'll be posting how to do a conversion for each variation of each set up on each character. There is a lot of variance in air throw height as well as characters' hurtbox and ground tech, so this spreadsheet is mostly just a tool for personal use.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JX-l8ON-zkegOf3Nt-cwq_8cCsc04EyCf1GhY_J0Vlc

I just started today and the shear number of tests required means this is gonna take awhile. If you manage to convert on a throw that I've labelled 'N/A' then PM a video and I'll edit it and add credit.
 
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Everyone's gonna try frametrap with c.HP sooner or later, may as well have a way to make it safer at the cost of optimisation on the combo.

Input is: c.HP, then right after the hitstop do 2369 LP~HP.
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
hmm i don't know...its cool but.......... why?

Frame traps are super useful and option selects are an amazing set of tech in fighting games. You do a single input and you cover multiple options.
They either,

A) Don't block, eat a combo
B) Block but get frame trapped, eat a combo
C) Block it all, LP Rekka is safe on block

Correct me if I'm wrong @ClarenceMage
 
gllt said:
Frame traps are super useful and option selects are an amazing set of tech in fighting games. You do a single input and you cover multiple options.
They either,

A) Don't block, eat a combo
B) Block but get frame trapped, eat a combo
C) Block it all, LP Rekka is safe on block

Correct me if I'm wrong @ClarenceMage

i know what frame traps are. but this just seems like a gimmick TBH.

frame traps makes it so that a move seemingly UNSAFE can then attack again. kinda like if you do bella's elbow drop close to the ground which gives you +6 instead of a minus.

The option select is certainly there but at what cost? this seems to be like something from my soul calibur knowledge in which this technique can only be used ONCE like so

TL;DR i believe fortune can do better than measly frame traps(which is actually more useful for characters like fukua and bella tbh)

A) is your desired one.
B) what? get hit by rekka into super dhc? that's the best you can manage?
c) rekka 1st hit is +2 on block? and doesn't even do anything?
 
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Yeah, Ms Fortune is a frametrap monster but this option isn't a really great frametrap option(use more s.LP/c.LP/c.LK my god), HOWEVER using c.HP as a frametrap option is something that people are going to do anyway, since you sometimes just want that extra risky option if you cancel too far along her magic series, or you avoid resisting pressing the extra button because push buttons.

c.HP by itself is very punishable on block, but if it connects you can get a full combo. You can't really hitconfirm it by itself raw though, and also confirming it on block fast enough to cancel it into something safer is also difficult.

What I uploaded was an option select that, if it hits, you superjump after the launch and do j.LP j.HP. If it's blocked, since you can't superjump, then you go into rekka which is neutral on block. This removes the need to confirm it on block, since it will automatically go into a frametrap rekka on block, so you just need to confirm the hit into a combo.
 
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ClarenceMage said:
Yeah, Ms Fortune is a frametrap monster but this option isn't a really great frametrap option(use more s.LP/c.LP/c.LK my god), HOWEVER using c.HP as a frametrap option is something that people are going to do anyway, since you sometimes just want that extra risky option if you cancel too far along her magic series, or you avoid resisting pressing the extra button because push buttons.

c.HP by itself is very punishable on block, but if it connects you can get a full combo. You can't really hitconfirm it by itself raw though, and also confirming it on block fast enough to cancel it into something safer is also difficult.

What I uploaded was an option select that, if it hits, you superjump after the launch and do j.LP j.HP. If it's blocked, since you can't superjump, then you go into rekka which is neutral on block. This removes the need to confirm it on block, since it will automatically go into a frametrap rekka on block, so you just need to confirm the hit into a combo.
hm.. i understand the idea with it....but i'm not a fan. though regarding the j lp j hp... can't you adc > j lk > j hp > axe kick to restand?

edit: btw you basically mean do c hp with a TK motion after
 
wait, why would I not just do s.hp > rekka? it's easier to do, easier to convert and has more range..
 
CaioLugon said:
wait, why would I not just do s.hp > rekka? it's easier to do, easier to convert and has more range..
explain?

what clarence was trying to bring forth was options upon options

the option that if people kept blocking c hp then rekka keeps them at neutral
the option that if people pressed a button then a rekka will hit
the option that if people are not blocking then a combo and a possibly reset will occur.

that said i like the idea but its not strong
not practical and most certainly unneeded as fortune has all the tools to confirm in the world to not resort to some parlor trick
 
CaioLugon said:
wait, why would I not just do s.hp > rekka? it's easier to do, easier to convert and has more range..

Have I missed some crucial bit of info where you can convert into full combo from rekka without assist?
 
ClarenceMage said:
Have I missed some crucial bit of info where you can convert into full combo from rekka without assist?
rekkax2 > slide
 
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Duly noted. However, that requires OTG, so if you wantd to end your combo with something like c.HP instant HK Axe kick for the slide knockdown, that's an issue. I like having the option available to me, especially for Melty style mixups from it, but s.HP into rekka is a better confirm by itself anyway in any case though.
 
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one thing ive been experimenting with is resetting by using airdashes really low to the ground, so that when you press a button during the airdash, you actually start a grounded move instead of having to fall from the air first. you can go from an airdash right into a crouch LK/LP.

easiest way ive found of getting it consistently, is after a L fiber upper press LP-LK-MP xx airdash under.

i havent tried using a throw to see if that works the same way or not but its a pretty weird looking thing.
 
Evilweevle said:
one thing ive been experimenting with is resetting by using airdashes really low to the ground, so that when you press a button during the airdash, you actually start a grounded move instead of having to fall from the air first. you can go from an airdash right into a crouch LK/LP.

easiest way ive found of getting it consistently, is after a L fiber upper press LP-LK-MP xx airdash under.

i havent tried using a throw to see if that works the same way or not but its a pretty weird looking thing.

You will find many of these resets documented in the last 3 pages. One of which is the grounded air dash itself, its hilarious cross through vs painwheel, and mk fiber fast fall cross under set up.
 
Been having some old hand troubles resurface lately so I'm not gonna be doing that throw conversion google doc any time soon, probably won't even be playing.
 
So uh I don't know if it's already been found but there's an execution heavy crossunder you can do with headless fortune. If the head is opposite your opponent

ground combo->m.K Fiber upper->sneeze
it's a crossunder that becomes more effective the heavier the character and works on everyone except Double(it kinda works on big band but the big hitbox makes it finicky)

there's an interesting tradeoff too. The faster you execute sneeze off of fiber the less time your opponent has to react but you force the crossunder. If your sneeze is a bit slower you can opt out by holding back
 
What are some burst baits that she can do in the corner specifically from the lk fiber bnb?
 
LazyBakemono said:
What are some burst baits that she can do in the corner specifically from the lk fiber bnb?
at the end of the last chain:

c.hp(or H fiber), air dash, j.mp

c.hp(or H fiber), j.lp, j.lk, j.mk(1hit) j.hk(fast fall) <- three hit bait

L fiber, air dash back, j.lk

and thats about all I can think of right now...
 
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After the jLK jHP MK Axe kick chain, you can just jump back with jLK. If they burst you can airdash back in and get a nice combo starter, if they don't burst you can also air dash back in and pressure them.

Midscreen just neutral jump jlk then LK Axe Kick. You float just enough that you avoid the burst.
 
fortune squigly double stagger reset.

As fortune
s.hp | silver chord ensemble cancel into cat strike.
 
Ok I kinda stumbled on this corner reset Friday just playing around, tried it out saturday at our meetup and it worked for a while but became predictable as i kept using it, so I will now consult the brainchild that is this forum for suggestions on where I can take this.

So here's the deal, been only able to get this reset to work in the corner, but further testing is needed. Start off with a normal fiber upper loop, but replace the 2nd part (j.lk>j.hp>qcb mk) with j.mp>j.hk>otg c.lk>s.mk>s.hk>lk fiber) what it does is s.mk pops them up in the air a bit, s.hk then juggles them at what would be directly over what would be Fortunes head, making it kinda ambiguous which side they'll land on. the lk fiber when done right will appear going the opposite direction, then auto-corrects back in the corner. The only thing I've implemented so far is an air grab reset, but I think I can turn it into a burst bait with j.lk>back air dash.

Just figured I'd prod all your brains on this.
 

I don't have the execution for this. I knew this bait since the last one I made and only just now felt like recording it maybe someone else can utilize it.

"But this bait sucks why do I need it?"

Sliding. Knockdown. so they have to wait through aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall that and then recover

ALSO MOSTLY UNIVERSAL except for double who hates the midscreen version

corner requires tk up back. midscreen requires tk up and only up no up forward no up back just UP otherwise it will not hit it's also incredibly hard to do. although I think on big band tk up back still works

corner can probably be late bursted but I never checked for that so do that. (although I'm pretty sure the up back will have fortune still move up and back away from a late burst)

EDIT: Hey I'm so bad at tks that I didn't realize that if you did a tk like a person who can then up back tk works fine

Midscreen is kinda messed up so I'm going look into that some more. Or maybe someone with a better execution can test it?
 
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Novice tech:
ending any combo that ends in a ground super with a launcher into neutral jump j.hk is a super easy burst bait that no one uses but should because knockdown.

Not as novice:
Feral edge has different end positions depending on the start positions, the farther away they are from you, the close they will be at the end. The problem with this is that any time during a normal combo you are going to be pretty close to them at any point where you would want to use feral edge. So yea just do j.hk xx feral edge and it puts them in a good position. This is useful for two reasons: combability and resetability. If you have the meter to burn and could get a kill, replace the 2nd to last chain of your combo with a launcher into j.hk xx feral edge, pick up the otg (which any good fortune will still have *cough*) and get an extra ~1k to your combo. If you do it at the end of a combo then you can run up to the before they recover from their ground tech backwards and be at advantage/ call a lockdown assist.
 
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Early in a combo, launch into immediate TK Feral does more damage than any other version of Feral and more damage than CSF. You miss with the dive and just hit with the last 3 hits. It also scales your combo the least.
Not sure if this is really useful, but damage is damage?
 
Dreamepitaph said:
i did not know that with the properties of feral edge....AWESOME TO KNOW

I actually just found out how to control this a few weeks ago myself, and you can get the optimal scaled version with a fiber too. I wanted to find the most damage possible for a PBGC Fiber, and this was part of it.

I did find that it's best to reduce it to the three-hit version in most cases, but some (i.e., Gregor) you want all of the hits to connect so that a multihit conversion DHC hits with as few hits as possible after the scaling reset.

 
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